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But buying gas is supporting terrorists.

Of course the guy that gets 30mpg but drives 80 miles each way to work and back doesn't help much either.


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You thought you were going to change me by telling me my vehicle is wasteful, unsafe, and a scab on society?

Yeah, why would you stop using something after hearing that.......


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Quote:

You thought you were going to change me by telling me my vehicle is wasteful, unsafe, and a scab on society?

Yeah, why would you stop using something after hearing that.......




I never turn my car off, I just park it in the driveway and let it idle til I need to drive it again. I'm going to do that for 5 years, and see if the earth gets warmer and terrorist become wealthier.


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Sorry arch, saw this and immediately thought of this thread.


Quote:


http://www.nbc-2.com/articles/readleearticle.asp?articleid=18523&z=14

Consumer Reports just came out with its list of the worst cars for 2008. Did your car make the list?

The Jeep Wrangler Unlimited received just 17 points out of 100. It received good marks for off road ability, but low marks for fuel economy.

The Hummer H3 received 27 points out of 100. Acceleration and fuel economy brought its score down.

The Jeep Liberty Sport also received 27 out of 100. Consumer Reports says the off-road ability is good, but noise and fuel economy are its major minuses.

The Chevrolet Aveo 5 scores a 32 out of 100. Its highs include front access and turning ability, but its lows include acceleration and handling.

The Dodge Nitro SLT received 33 out of 100 points. Testers cited its handling, braking, noise and fuel economy as its negative points.

The Toyota FJ Cruiser received a 36. Consumer Reports gave the car low marks for visibility, ride, and handling.

Toyota’s Yaris also received a 36 for its acceleration and handling.

The Suzuki Forenza received a 36 for its acceleration, fuel economy and ride.

Chevy’s Trailblazer received 43 points. Consumer Reports cites handling, braking and fuel economy.

At the bottom of the list was is the Mercury Grand Marquis, which got high marks for its large trunk and low marks for engine noise, seat comfort and fuel economy.




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Quote:


http://www.nbc-2.com/articles/readleearticle.asp?articleid=18523&z=14

Consumer Reports just came out with its list of the worst cars for 2008. Did your car make the list?

The Jeep Wrangler Unlimited received just 17 points out of 100. It received good marks for off road ability, but low marks for fuel economy.





And I would completely agree with this one. I don't care for my Liberty because the fuel economy sucks and it is noisy. But it's a gem in off-road situations. Handles like a dream then.

Back to your regularly scheduled discussion...


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Iraqis brace for more violence despite cease-fire

Relative calm after bloody militia crackdown fails to allay worries in Basra


updated 10:31 a.m. ET, Wed., April. 2, 2008


BASRA, Iraq - Cleaning up their shops and venturing out onto the streets after a week of bloody clashes, Iraqis in the southern city of Basra said on Wednesday they feared worse violence was to come.

Basra, Iraq's oil hub, has been relatively calm for the past three days since Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr ordered fighters from his Mahdi Army militia off the streets after they fought intense battles with Iraqi security forces.

But al-Sadr has rebuffed an order by Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki for the Mahdi Army to hand over its weapons and many fear more violence, especially in the lead-up to provincial elections due by October.

"I think these battles will continue and in an even fiercer way as things are not finished yet," said Nadhum Jameel, a 51-year-old government employee.

"The militias are still powerful. Maliki achieved nothing and didn't succeed in disarming them."

Hundreds killed and wounded
The Interior Ministry has said 210 people were killed and 600 wounded in Basra during the fighting, which exposed a deep rift between parties in the government and followers of the influential cleric al-Sadr, who supported al-Maliki's rise to power in 2006 but withdrew his support a year later.

Shiite parties and militias and have been jockeying for power in Basra for years in a battle that is expected to escalate before the provincial elections.
†br />"The situation is calm but (security) operations are still going on and I think it will ignite again. I am thinking of leaving the city," said Zuhair Abdullah, 34, a metal worker.

'Situation could explode'
Aymen Nuri, 32, a shopowner, added: "This situation could explode at any time because the issue is political."

Sadrists, who boycotted provincial elections in 2005, are vying for control of the mainly Shiite, oil-producing south with its powerful rival, the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council.

The Council is the biggest Shiite party in government and an ally of al-Maliki's Dawa party. Another player is the smaller Fadhila party, which controls the local oil industry.

Sadrists have accused al-Maliki and the Council of trying to weaken them ahead of the elections in which they are expected to make big gains.

Property damage
The government has said the crackdown was an attempt to assert state authority in a lawless city.

Many people in Basra expressed outrage at the damage done to their property during the fighting.

"They fought each other and we were the victims," said Ahmed Kareem, as he cleaned up smashed glass from his car parts shop in central Basra.

Al-Sadr announced the surprise cease-fire after talks behind the scenes with parties in al-Maliki's government.

As part of the deal, Sadr's aides say, authorities are to end roundups of his followers and implement an amnesty to free prisoners. Sadrists have complained they have not benefited from the new amnesty law passed by parliament in February.

Among the gloom of most residents, some were more positive.

"I think it is the beginning of a change. It will end up with the capture and killing of all the gangsters," said Nazeeha Awwad, a 48-year-old housewife.

"Things are moving in the right direction."

Copyright 2008 Reuters.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23917720/


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I think the one thing that most are missing in all of this is that aside from some airstrikes, the forces involved all appear to be Iraqi.

1. That's good for our guys (the Brits that is, being that it is Basra)
2. That represents a HUGE change in things
3. The Sadrist are dealing directly with the Iraqi Gov't... another HUGE change in things

It isn't all doom & gloom from where I'm sitting.


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Quote:

I think the one thing that most are missing in all of this is that aside from some airstrikes, the forces involved all appear to be Iraqi.




Yes, the Iraqi Army NEEDED and called for them once they understood they could not handle the situation themselves.


Quote:

3. The Sadrist are dealing directly with the Iraqi Gov't... another HUGE change in things




Well, I suppose if you call giving the Iraqi government an "ultimatum" as "dealing directly with the Iraqi goernment", you have a point.



Quote:


It isn't all doom & gloom from where I'm sitting.




That's true from where I'm sitting too. Of course I live in the U.S.A.

If I lived in Basra, I may not share that view.



JMHO


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Rift widens between Iraq’s Shiites

Basra offensive inflamed long-standing rivalry, redefining nature of conflict

BAGHDAD - As verses from the Koran floated from a loudspeaker, the Shiite militia commander's face glowered. Inside the cavernous funeral tent, a large portrait of his 16-year-old son, Mustafa, hung over the mourners. Abu Abdullah, who fought U.S. troops and Sunni insurgents for five years, never expected his son to die before him. Now, he said, his anger was directed at other Shiites.

An Iraqi soldier, he said, had shot Mustafa two days earlier as he approached a checkpoint in Sadr City, where Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr and his Mahdi Army rule. Abu Abdullah blamed Sadr's Shiite rivals, who lead the Iraqi government.

"What do I feel inside me?" asked Abu Abdullah, dressed in black. "I want to do to them exactly what they did to my son, and even more."

In this volatile Shiite redoubt, animosity toward Prime Minister Nouri-al Maliki and his allies has deepened in the aftermath of Iraq's worst violence in months, threatening to escalate a conflict among Shiites that could further draw in U.S. troops.

Suspicions among rivals
Sadr's followers view a recent U.S.- and British-backed Iraqi government offensive in the southern port city of Basra as an attempt by their Shiite rivals to weaken Sadr's movement ahead of provincial elections later this year. Iraq's security forces, they say, are tools used against them by their rivals. Clashes erupted across southern Iraq and Baghdad, diminishing only after Sadr ordered his fighters to lay down their weapons.

But tensions remain high. On Sunday, fighting again broke out in Sadr City, leaving 11 dead and 55 injured as a joint U.S. and Iraqi military operation began. Maliki and other lawmakers issued a statement Sunday urging political parties to disband their militias or face being banned from the elections, an act clearly directed at Sadr.

Mahdi Army commanders and fighters spoke on Saturday of a military and political landscape starkly altered by the Basra offensive. They vowed revenge against Maliki and his Dawa party and against the Badr Brigade, the armed wing of the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, a powerful Shiite party led by Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, a key U.S. ally and Sadr's main rival.

New kind of conflict
The hostilities highlighted how intra-sect struggles, after five years of war, are increasingly defining the nature of conflict in Iraq, as violence lessens between Sunnis and Shiites.

"Now, our fight is with Badr and Dawa, along with the Americans," said Abu Abdullah, a burly man with a rugged face, thick beard and stern voice. "They are bigger enemies" than the extremist Sunnis, he added.

On Saturday, U.S. Stryker armored vehicles and Iraqi Humvees cordoned off Sadr City. They blocked all roads, and no cars were allowed to enter or leave. U.S. combat helicopters and drones circled above. Unlike the rest of Baghdad, the sprawling district was still under curfew. This correspondent entered Sadr City on foot.

Inside, traffic bustled. The streets, brimming with people, appeared normal, save for the presence of U.S. tanks. But fresh slogans scrawled on walls spoke of the potential for upheaval. "Maliki is a coward and agent of Americans," read one. On another wall: "Badr and Dawa are thieves and killers."

Battle for supremacy
Iraq's Shiites have long contested each other for the mantle of their community. Under Saddam Hussein, Hakim and Maliki fled, preferring to fight from exile. Sadr, the son of Iraq's most respected populist cleric, who was assassinated by Hussein's government in 1999, remained inside the country during the repression. That helped Sadr to gain credibility among impoverished Shiites, enhancing his power on Iraq's streets. His followers deeply resent that former Shiite exiles, whose power is derived largely from their American backers, now lead Iraq's government.

For years, the rivalry unfolded mostly in the political arena. Sadr and Hakim have different visions for Iraq. Hakim, whose party is part of the ruling coalition, wants a separate Shiite region in the south. Sadr, who considers himself a nationalist, wants to keep the country unified. Under heavy U.S. pressure, Maliki turned against Sadr, his political benefactor, and over the past year has ratcheted up efforts to isolate Sadr, who withdrew from Maliki's coalition last year.

In recent months, tensions have grown. Iraq's security forces, with Badr and Dawa loyalists in senior command positions, have detained hundreds of Sadr followers across southern Iraq. The government insists it is arresting criminals, but Sadrist leaders say the actions are politically motivated and intended to take advantage of a cease-fire Sadr imposed in August, a key reason violence has dropped in Iraq.

"Badr and Dawa are wearing the military uniforms," said Abu Hussein, a young fighter in a blue baseball cap and striped T-shirt. "We are not fighting the military. We are fighting them. They have legal cover under the uniforms."

Inside a shattered, shell-pocked apartment building, Ayed Abdul Amir walked into a neighbor's top-floor apartment. As a breeze blew through broken windows, his shoes crunched thousands of pieces of glass. Bullet holes riddled the walls. Amir stared at the destruction and shook his head.

‘No one can fool me again’
He remembered seeing Mahdi Army fighters entering the building two days after the Basra offensive began, aiming their weapons at a checkpoint manned by U.S. and Iraqi troops on a nearby street. "When the gunmen started shooting, they started shooting back," said Amir, a day laborer. He fled for his life.

He worries that violence could erupt again at any instant. Once oppressed under Hussein's Sunni-ruled government, Amir said he had voted for the ruling Shiite coalition, thinking that Shiites like him would benefit. Now a Shiite power struggle has engulfed his life. "I never expected this," Amir said. "But now I am expecting anything. These are political issues, and the people are suffering for it."

"We are sorry we voted for this government," he said, his voice rising in anger. "I will never vote for anyone. No one can fool me again."

Nadal Fahiri, his wife, stood in the living room of the battered apartment listening to every word. She had given up hope on getting electricity and other basic services, she said. Nor did she care about the soaring prices of food and cooking gas under the curfew.

"All we want now is to be able to sleep at night," she said.

Near their building, a group of Mahdi Army fighters gathered at a local community office. They had defended their neighborhood, they said, against the Americans and their Shiite rivals, and they vowed to fight again if necessary.

"They are our brothers," said Abu Zahra, a Mahdi Army leader. "But their political positions have changed them."

‘They are not real Iraqis’
Tall with a thick moustache, Abu Zahra said the Supreme Council and Dawa were "trying to show muscle" before the provincial elections. "They want to have full control over the south."

He added with disgust: "They are not real Iraqis. They never lived here. They never knew how we lived. The Americans planted them here."

Some fighters believed that Iran was using Dawa and the Badr Brigade, which was originally founded and trained in Iran, to foment violence against Sadr, whose movement has long been wary of Iran. All saw American influence. Abu Haider, a senior Sadrist leader, said the U.S. military was using their Shiite rivals to keep the Mahdi Army busy in order to prevent them from attacking U.S. troops. "They will not change," said Abu Zahra, referring to Badr and Dawa.

"They are like the knife. But the hand is the Americans," said Abu Noor, a top Mahdi Army commander in Sadr City.

At the funeral tent, Abu Abdullah seethed. After his son was shot, an Iraqi officer refused to allow an ambulance to take him to the hospital, he said. He believes his son might have lived. "They are behaving like the Americans," he said.

Sense of hopelessness
Mustafa, he said, was killed after Sadr had ordered Abu Abdullah's 60 fighters to stand down. And that order, he said, was the only barrier between him and "a revolution" against his Shiite rivals and U.S. forces. "Every day now is worse than before," he said.

Down a narrow street, in a warren of oatmeal-colored houses, children played near fetid pools of water. The smell of rotting garbage wafted in the air. Portraits of Shiite saints graced walls. Scrawled on one house was "Down With Badr," directly across from "Long Live Sadr."

In a house, Abu Noor sat beneath a portrait of Sadr. He said the "gap" between Sadr and his Shiite rivals had "widened so much that it could not be closed." The only way, he said, was for Badr and Dawa to honor the conditions Sadr demanded in exchange for ordering his fighters to stand down last week. They included a halt to arrests and amnesty for Mahdi Army fighters. Otherwise, he warned, they will "reap what they have sown."

Abu Noor paused, then said: "I am expecting many uprisings like this."

© 2008 The Washington Post Company

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23987459/


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