DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 4 assistants fired from Browns!

Here is the only spin I can see about Lott getting the ax. We all know that most of these injuries were of the freak nature. However, maybe they are thinking that Lott was too hard on these guys? Perhaps his nature of pushing these guys to the limits all year long was causing their bodies to break down and thus, allowing the possibilities of freak injuries. Of course we had a few early on, but it just seemed like towards the end of the season, we would lose 2 or 3 guys each game.

Post deleted by Attack Dawg

LOL......Why in the hell did you quote Knox's comment on Super's name to say this? <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes_devil.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />
I had two sessions up and was looking at another thread and didn't edit this one..
SUE ME! <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

lmfao, sorry sbdogg, but that was funny! btw, you guys do know there is a Florida or Florida State player named Cody Fagg, don't you?

I think they should have let a new OC, if they plan on getting one, decide who he wants to keep. Coates seemed to do ok, I mean KW, Heiden, and Dinkins were as consistant as any WR the Browns put on the field, except maybe JJ, and that's bad for B.E.

I wonder if some of the players were complaining about Lott's work schedule being to much? If so, I'm not sure these guys should be on the Browns? Especially if it is B.E. and Dra!

The other two, Robo and Crennell II, really don't matter, in fact, it will probably be better that they are gone and replaced.

[color:"gold"]Con...I believe you might be on to something with your above comments...kind of what I was thinking too.

Someone was not happy with the job Lott was doing..Crennel, players, Savage..who knows? [/color]

I am sure that is part of it.

I think too many of our players are getting too thick, and probably losing speed.

Obviously you need strength to play the game, but my feeling is these goofball coaches try to take it too far with their charts.

Cribbs is a guy I see as a prime example. The guy used to be a guy with some pretty good speed. I think he has gotten too big and is now not able to hit the hole as fast as he could earlier. Just looking at him one can see he is 15 lbs bigger than he was when he came up.

If you want a team of plodders, hire John Lott.

[color:"gold"] Some positions can afford to get thicker such as linemen but not other postions that rely on speed and quickness.

JMO, but I believe Droughns is slower this year than last. [/color]

[color:"gold"]Found this... web page

Browns Lott dumped
Saturday, January 6, 2007
By Steve Doerschuk REPOSITORY SPORTS WRITER









BEREA Injuries, not matching opponents' strength in the trenches and in-house friction, may have cost Browns strength-and-conditioning coach John Lott his job.

The club announced Lott's release Friday in addition to confirming assistant offensive coaches Terry Robiskie, Carl Crennel II and Ben Coates won't be back. All four joined the Browns shortly after Romeo Crennel, Carl's uncle, was hired as head coach in 2005.

The Browns haven't been able to settle on a strength coach. Tim Jorgensen, Buddy Morris and Lott have had the job over the last six years.

Lott was a running fanatic; in fact, he had a hill alongside the team complex re-done last offseason to add more arduous drills. His strength program came into question, though, as the Browns often got pushed around, and as the length of the injured reserve list grew.

The most damaging injuries, and the strangest, were to LeCharles Bentley and Gary Baxter, the big-ticket free-agent pick-ups of the last two years. Bentley ruptured a patellar tendon; Baxter blew out a patellar tendon in each knee on the same play.

Starting defensive ends Orpheus Roye and Alvin McKinley and backup nose tackle Ethan Kelley finished the year on injured reserve, a crucial factor to a team using a three-man line.

Reach Repository sports writer Steve Doerschuk at (330) 580-8347 or e-mail steve.doerschuk@cantonrep.com
[/color]

[color:"gold"] Plain Dealer article, dated Jan 6th...web page


Browns continue to purge
Saturday, January 06, 2007
Mary Kay Cabot
Plain Dealer Reporter
Two more Browns assistant coaches, tight ends coach Ben Coates and strength and conditioning coach John Lott, will not be retained, the Browns announced Friday.

They follow receivers coach Terry Robiskie and offensive quality control coach Carl Crennel II, whose terminations became known on Thursday.

They have not yet fired running backs coach Dave Atkins, but his job is on the line. Quarterbacks coach Rip Scherer will be retained, a source said.

In a statement, Browns coach Romeo Crennel said: "I would like to thank these four coaches for their service to the Browns since my arrival here two years ago, especially Terry Robiskie, who served as wide receivers coach, offensive coordinator and interim head coach during his six years with the Browns. These decisions were made with the best interest of the franchise in mind."

The Browns interviewed interim offensive coordinator Jeff Davidson on Friday for the permanent coordinator's job, but they had no news to report. He could return to his role as offensive line coach and assistant head coach, but his job and that of assistant offensive line coach Jeff Uhlenhake are up in the air pending the coordinator decision.

The Browns have asked for permission to interview Dolphins quarterbacks coach Jason Garrett, but have not yet received it, a source said. It's possible they'll also be interested in Garrett's brother, John, who currently is the assistant head coach/offense and wide receivers coach at the University of Virginia under former Browns assistant and former Jets head coach Al Groh.

The Browns are expected to interview about eight to 10 offensive coordinator candidates over the next week to 10 days.

Robiskie lost his job, in part, because of receiver Braylon Edwards' behavior throughout the season. Lott is believed to have had philosophical differences with Browns General Manager Phil Savage. The Browns also had an inordinate amount of injuries, but most weren't attributable to training methods.

Lott, the first coach hired by Crennel, was previously the Jets' strength and conditioning coach for eight years.

Coates was let go despite the fact that Kellen Winslow Jr. tied Hall of Famer Ozzie Newsome's team record for 89 catches in a season. This was Coates' first NFL coaching job, other than a minority internship with the Dallas Cowboys in 2004.

Crennel has now let go five assistants, including the firing of offensive coordinator Maurice Carthon after the first six games of the season.

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:

mcabot@plaind.com, 216-999-4670


[/color]

Another good example.

[color:"gold"]I wonder if that damn hill is responsible for the patellar tendon damage to some of our players?

Sometimes injuries are not just bad luck...but stupidity on someone's part. Some players will continue to push themselves thinking 'no pain, no gain'.

There is no way that a conditioning coach can know the pain tolerance level of each player but someone has to use common sense to protect the players from injuring themselves.

I did see the hill they are talking about "before" Lott was hired (and had it changed) and I thought it was steep enough. It's going to be difficult to say for sure that "the hill" is what cost some players their seasons but you do have to look at what changed in the conditioning program when the trend of patellar tendon injuries started.

I wonder how hard it is for a conditioning coach to look at what other teams, with low levels of injuries, do in their conditioning programs? Having the toughest conditioning program in the NFL is not necessarily going to give a team the desired results.

The goal when Lott was hired was cutting down on the number of Browns players being injured...obviously, he failed.

[/color]

There has to be a point of diminished return on conditioning, and at some point a person is going to reach their "optimum" level. Not everybody is going to be void of fat.

I think these guys are too hung up on charts showing how a player has gained strength.

It is my honest opinion that teams do more harm than good by keeping these freaks around 12 months of the year.

This isn't to say you want weak players by any means, but this whole training thrust taken by teams as gotten to the point of harm. Sooner or later some of these players need to tell the strength coach to go pound bricks and just do what feels right for them.

Maybe that is what happened....someone like McGinnest finally told the goof to take a hike.

Peen, yet the last article posted mentioned a difference between Lott and Savage... Ya know, I sure wish that if a reporter was going to say something like that, they would say what the difference is... <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

You know.......you guys never cease to amaze me in just how wrong you are. Jesus, you would think you would all get lucky once in awhile. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" /> It's kinda similar to the Brown's drafts. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

First of all.......Lott is not known for building guys up to the point where they get too big. He was criticized for just the opposite. He does believe in constant training, but the empahsis is on running and lifting w/lighter weights.

Secondly, blaming a S&C coach because certain players are getting fed up [an no Peen, it wasn't McGinnest] than you are looking at it bass-ackwards. It's simply more proof that we have too many players on this team that are NOT willing to do what it takes. And this is one of the things that Joe was referring to when he was quoted earlier in the week.

Next, all S&C coaches know their [censored]. Buddy Morris was a very good S&C coach, but I remember so many of you blaming him for our injuries and singing the praises of Lott. I laughed then and said it didn't matter. I wasn't dissing Lott, it's just that Morris was very capable himself. Now, you are saying it's Lott's fault. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

Finally, where are all you people who just a few weeks ago told me that I was crazy and making [censored] up when I said that there was a good chance that Lott would be fired along w/several other coaches?

Now, I realize that sounds arrogant. However, it's to the point where I am beyond sick of people criticizing and belittling and insulting things I say only to completely ignore the situation when it comes true. You wanna mock me when I say these things...fine. But, man-up when it's proven you were wrong. If you are not man enough to man-up, perhaps you shouldn't mock others whose opinions are different than yours. I guess that is a polite way of saying "shut your mouths." <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But I guarantee that the know-it-alls will keep running their traps the next time I say something controversial. Being wrong has never even slowed them down. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

Vers, you are right more often than you're wrong. You know how I know this? Two reasons....I read your posts more often than not and you never stop telling us when you're right. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> I also have never noticed anyone ragging on your opinions any more than anyone else's on here, except when you egg them on.

C'mon, you're a smart guy, but did it really take all that much brain power to figure out some coaches were gonna get the axe after the season(s) we've had? You make it sound like the rest of us are morons.

As far as Lott goes......I agree that he's a scapegoat but it's not like this doesn't happen on every other team in the NFL sooner or later. When you lose someone pays. Happens every year.

No one is happy with the way things are going in Berea. We all have differing opinions on what should be done. Some of those opinions will turn out totally wrong and some will turn out totally right. But until we win all our opinions are just hot air.

I guess I'm just saying that perhaps if you didn't make a lot of your posts sound like you're just sick to death of talking to us cretins perhaps you wouldn't get so much of it in return. Just my 2 cents.....

I never made fun of you for saying Lott would be canned.


And I don't claim to be a know-it-all(at least on this topic <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

I clearly said it is my opinion and if not implied in such that I could be wrong, I allow for that now.

However, I still feel the same now after your rant as I did before.

and now we have come full circle-- remember how so many people were calling for Arians head when he was in charge of the offense.

.......i can't imagine he would be ready to come back to Cleveland after all of that. I think you can only burn so many bridges.

And another guy who had some success running an offense- Palmer. Looked good in Jacksonville, got the short end of a contract in Cleveland- tried to develop Carr with no offensive line.... Must have done something right with Romo....

All I have to say is google Lott and Buddy Morris, our last couple of S & C coaches and you will learn that both are very well respected in the business particularly Morris.

In fact, you can still bring up the Browns press releases and bio's on these guys. The Browns just sing their praises.

I don't get it.. we bring in world class S & C coaches then fire em a year or 2 later. I've seen some posters suggest that maybe Lott didn't get along with somebody or silly stuff like that.. gimmee a break.. this is the lifting coach not the OC.

[color:"white"]Otto: [/color] Well, get used to it. I let [censored] slide a long time. I have NO problems when people disagree w/me, but I do have a problem when people say I'm making things up, or I'm clueless, or I hate the Browns and should root for another team. It's gone on too long. And I will continue to point these things out as long as people wanna act that way.

Brainpower? Well, my point was that there were posters who said I was making things up because I was bitter. That was not the case. I actually "knew" that these guys were going to get fired. If you were not one of those posters---and you weren't------why worry about it?

[color:"white"] Peen: [/color] First of all, much of my previous post was not directed at you. The only thing that was directed towards you was that it is incorrect that Lott is making the guys too big and they are losing speed. The knock on him is that he isn't developing strong enough players. Don't you see, that is completely opposite of what you said? As for the rest, I just got carried away and went off on certain other posters.

I guess my main point is that it's okay for people to admit they were wrong. Watch...........I really thought Lee Suggs was going to be a pretty good back. I was wrong. <<checking myself......wow...nothing bad happened>> <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

General reply. This team is soft and playing in the 4th quarter is more mental than physical. I could probaly sit down and make a list of the guys that cried to the FO that the workouts were to hard. I will almost guarantee every damn one of them was the ones that u would see last in every drill in camp.

When u see the team running laps and u have guys like Dra and smith running with the OL and Big Ted well something is wrong. I dont like Edwards but atleast he will work.

When we hired Lott, people raved about how the Jets led the league in fewest injuries, and now two years later, Lott's incompetent. Scapegoats fell this week, that's all that happened.



Excuse me phil, but let the S&C coach do his [censored] job, 'K?

I am glad to see Robo and (mini me) Crennel go. Coates is a shock for me, as was Lott. However lotts firing may have been more for personal reasons than for anything else.

j/c

I'll just echo what a lot are saying in that I'm surprised Coates was let go. I thought our TEs played pretty well this year. However, maybe there was just something else that lead to him leaving. Maybe we felt like we could save a little money, consolidate the TEs with another coach and then have some more money to spend on a high quality OC.

I agree that it kind of stinks like change for the sake of change. I hope that's not true.

This is not the first time I've heard you say something that might make one believe you have some type of inside knowledge.

Are you trying to say you have some type of inside source on the team?

Mac, same question to you. Many of your posts suggest the same thing.

Admist all this,why does Rip Sherear(sp) the qb coach still get to retain his position? You cannot over value what a qb coach brings to the fold.
I don't understand it.Ben Coates is shown the door yet Rip does a (censored) job with Frye and Anderson and he still is here.
Charlie Frye showed barely any signs of progress from 2005 to 2006. He was still making the same mental errors in year 2.
Rip Sherear IMO did the worst job of all the position coaches. Most of the time,the Browns qbs did not look very prepared and looked very very befuddled ou on the field.

I don't question that at all.

My whole line of thinking is more in terms of the overall attitude of teams, coaches,players, towards building muscle and strength.

Take 30-40 years ago. Teams didn't have anybody. Just a few guys on the team who might have done a few curls and military presses....clearly not enough....to today...where I am questioning if it has gone 180degrees, to too much??

People can build more and more until they look like Mr. Universe, but is that the healthy way to play football where some degree of agility is required?

All I am saying is at some point the added strength begins to take away from agility and the ability to take the pounding of NFL football.

Is it possible that in the quest for "bigger,stronger,faster", something that anyone who has been around any type of moderatly advanced level of sport has heard, have we begun to cross the line and started to decrease a players ability to play the game without serious injury??

[color:"gold"]rishuz...What I write is just my opinions and viewpoints based on some knowledge of the game, what I read and what I hear on the radio and TV.

I don't make any claims such as knowing any more than the next guy and I certainly don't want it to sound like I have inside contacts with the organization.

I've been a Browns fan since the early 60s when dad and I would watch Jim Brown and the rest of the Browns every Sunday. Through the good and the bad, I've been a fan of one team, my Browns.

When teams are not successful, there are reasons. The fact that changes are being made shows me that some in the organization believe we can do better. I think all of us want the Browns to be better so we need to just relax and let things play out.

This past season has been one of the worst for this franchise since returning to the NFL in 99. We made the big changes two years ago thinking we had things fixed but obviously, we didn't as the results speak for themselves.

I trust those running this franchise and will be patient and allow the team a chance to succeed. But make no mistake about the state of this franchise, we are still two years away from a shot at making the playoffs, IMO....mac

Peen,

You make it sound like these guys are clueless idiots when it comes to playing the game.

Gimmee a break, these guys are professionals. They are being paid good cabbage to train and condition people to play football.. I think they are aware of how the game is played and what condition they need to be in.

considering our record since 99 clueless idiots seems to be fitting lol In fact I honestly believe you could create a staff from the fans on here including HC, and GM and would have been more successful. Seriously i dont think we would have been much worse if we had tried to suck.

I want to be GM...

I would have picked McNabb, Arrington, LT....

[color:"red"]"I think too many of our players are getting too thick, and probably losing speed."

[color:"orange"]And yet in the first offseason results it was recorded that our DL Lost X amount of pounds and gained in Speed.

Smith our FB - Gained speed and lost some of that thick as our play book commanded more impact from our FB position other than smash mouth.

true a kid like Fraser came in much bigger than last year after the off-season and it was attributed that being the major reason for his improvement and sticking with the team. BTW - he was one of the few OLmen that stuck it out the entire 16 games....hmmmm maybe more should have dedicated themselves to Lotts program and "HILL" than the others.

I can't believe the "HILL" is being blamed for the Patella injuries.

Why did it take two seasons for Baxters' Patella to go.

And Bentley was working how long under Lotts program to be the culprit.

I still can't see anything wrong...I've studied conditioning so much and everything I read about Lott is so spot on correct it ain't funny!

The "HILL" btw was one thing that was attributed to Rice. Walter Payton I believe had a grueling workout surrounded by the HILL.

Maybe those who took care of their own Off season Workouts simply couldn't handle Lotts program when they got here. So he is to blame cause they came in out of shape. RD...he worked out in Berea in the off season or in Colorado where he was getting arrested for slapping his wife???

As mentioned maybe small potatoes in the scheme of things. But I really really thought Lott was the best at something in the NFL. And my whole thing is that the NFL is built on parity and anytime you can get an edge it worth its weight in gold and Lott was an edge!!! I think this was a slap on Romeo's Hand it was the first guy he hired...Mo, Romeo's son, Coates from NE and Robo who was a longtime aquaintence and friend as both were one of the first NFL African American Assts. in the NFL and kept in touch.

As I said I don't mind the Offense stuff cause I don't think RAC's expertise is great in that area and if we are bringing in a new guy or giving it to Davidson lock stock and barrell let the new OC build his staff.

But the Lott thing...took the slap to RAC's hands a little further to the face if you ask me.

I just don't like it. We will survive. But I just don't like it.
JMHO

eotab- I think you are 100% correct on Lott, and he will most likely be picked up by another team soon...and that team will look better next year for it. The one thing I see that looks really bad for the Browns is, Coachs fail here in Cleveland!
If that is seen by the rest of the NFL as sign of things to come, would a good coach even want to work for the Browns? <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Yes money can get many things, but if coming to the browns might ends ones carrier in the NFL, why risk it?
Will we only get the bottom of the barrel or coaches just wanting the first chance to coach in the NFL...crap we could be in a never ending sink hole.... <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


I feel sick.

I agree.

It is like they are just stripping Romeo down and hanging him out to dry. I just don't understand why Savage is doing that.

I am going to think out loud here and rant for a moment. Just things that have been crossing my mind.

It almost seems like now that Savage has Collins out of the way he is turning his attention towards Romeo. Not that he shouldn't, but it almost seems like Savage knows he isn't going to find a real coach who will take a job under the same parameters of power as is now set.

Does anyone really think Cower would take a job here allowing Savage control of his staff and the draft?? If you do, you're dreaming.

It almost looks like Phil is trying to run the whole show...and that's ok if he is the real deal, but right now it is up in the air.

Peen I don't think it really falls on Lott, but there could be issues with personal trainers etc..
Lott emphased running and doing other things besides lifting..
Now maybe the running puts extra stress on the joints(I know thisa from dealing with personal trainers/therapists) but perhaps there's something else going on that we're not priviy to know..
Plus we really don't have super big players ..our linemen seem to be weak(on both sides of the ball) maybe thats the problem..they get pushed around and get injured ..

[color:"orange"]I know you were just thinking out loud. I really wouldn't take it to that extreme...but pretty close I think. We had to get better and we looked at the O and the building of it. Maybe it was wrong. Maybe Savage n Randy (Randy had to be on board with this) decided on this O thing I don't see them being far off on it. After all the decision pretty much was made mid-season when Mo left.

The Defense that RAC has expertise in he picked guys that weren't his boys...he picked guys that he knew were good at what they did.

I think on the O side he picked people he could trust more than on his expertise of who can run an O. So maybe when all is said n done it was a betterment.

But the Lott thing don't fly with me in the same accord. In other words I see latitude in the other firings on possibly being the right moves for us. I don't see that in Lott. If we were out muscled...Get stronger guys!

JMHO

[color:"white"] Well, get used to it. I let [censored] slide a long time. [/color]

I am used to it. LOL You just sound so angry in your posts I can imagine you at your keyboard just seconds from a stroke. This stuff is supposed to be fun and it doesn't appear you are having much. Of course, considering our season I'm surprised most of us aren't posting from mental hospitals.

I'm beginning to think that Peen (or is it Toad) is correct in one sense. I question Romeo's ability to survive the coming season. And if he's not gonna make it then why not cut him loose now and start the inevitable process over again, sooner. I wish I had the answer. I just know I'm tired of starting to think about the draft by the end of September every year.

Peen, I think you may be on to something! Imo, if we don't show great improvement or make the playoffs in 07, I think RAC will be gone, if we are still struggling in 08, then Phil will be gone.

I think Phil should handle the off-field stuff, scout players, sign players, and the general GM duties. The Coach, whomever it is, should handle the on-field duties, game planning, lineup, discipline of players, and the other general HC tasks.

I don't think Cowher would come here if Savage is in control of everything, nor should Savage be in control of everything. It's my belief that one guy can have too much power and it can have a negative effect on a team. That's why I don't really believe a HC should be both HC and GM.

With Cowher's track record in our division, we would need to let him build and coach his type of team. He knows the AFC North and how to Coach and Win in this division. We would just need to let him do his job. He would make our team successful. Possibly even a S.B. winner. Imo.

Maybe they are working on a bit of a forced resignation. If they fire they owe the length of the contract but if they can all of his buddies and he quis. they dont owe him.