DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 4 assistants fired from Browns!

Let me take a stab at finishing that statement, Toad. Unless.......................Savage is not the GM. or....Savage is desperate! That's not saying that I think Cowher would be a hire made in desperation but rather that Savage, if things don't improve next season, may be desperate enough to give control, or at least partial control, to a well respected and experienced HC like Cowher!

[color:"white"]Hehe......You're close, but there's another possibility <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

[color:"red"]if rac wins next year he might stick around....if he doesn't then who are savage's likely canidates [/color]

He might..or he might not..and right now I wouldn't know who Phil would think his replacement might be..
However there are things that bother me..
First Phil is going to put together a new staff..ones that don't pose a problem internally.
But these guys will be strong success stories or close to it and have a more NFL experience in their fields.
Now if the talent is brought in , then Phil wants to see HOW Rac coaches whats there.
So we're going to have to interpet when things go wrong(or even right) whos' the blame ?
Lack of talent?
Assistants not doing the job?
Rac not a good HC?

unless...savage willing gives up some of the managerial powers that he has for more focus on scouting (like was rumored)

this would open the door for cowher to work with phil....


and in all honesty what different power does cowher have now (well had) was he the deciding factor on what players are finally picked in the draft? or the roster?

those are the only 2 sticking points that i could see....if they are true of course.....

i'd be willing to bet the the checks and balances were there in pit, but were never used because cowher was successful....

I vote for Urban Meyers......After last night and seeing his track record from Bowling Green to Utah to Flordia, heck I'm a RAC guy and I wouldnt be mad to see the switch for this coming year.

Urban is a college coach.

He is exactly where he needs to be.....Gainesville, Fl. The center of the NCAA Championship universe.

Gators...NCAA DI hoops champions and NCAA DI football champions.

I don't want a college coach..period..nor any college assistants.

We could always just have our players decide our new Coach like the Cardinals....shoot, why stop there? Lets put up a poll on the main site and let the fans decide. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

lincoln

Sorry, just found that too amusing. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

J/k mainly, but I do want to play off the report you gave earlier.

Imo this is a mess that is pretty much Collins & Jr.s F-UP to begin with, and now that things are going south Opie is a shark in the water trying to save his own ass. Allow me to explain.....

RAC was never Opie's coach, and was hired by Collins and Jr. I said at the time along with a few others that this was a mistake, and was pretty much scorned for even mentioning it...lol. The GM should hire his coach who wants to do the same things on BOTH sides of the ball (not just the 3-4 D). We didn't, and there is a philisophical difference between RAC and Opie on the O side of the ball. This was the 1st screw up in rebuilding, because Jr pretty much hired RAC without Opie having a say in it at all............this wasn't Opie's screwup but JRs.......and it's come back to bite us in the ass 2 years later. Opie however is responsible for Leon, and imo is deflecting his responsiblilty to RAC to keep the heat off his ass. I mean if Jr is pissed about BE being an ass than why not put the heat on the guy who brought him in here when we all knew he had a history of being an ass??? Leon is Opie's screw up, and he's deflecting the heat from himself onto the coaching staff saying they can't handle him.

I honestly believe we screwed this up from the begining, and now as Vers said he organization is in a mess. RAC is a lame duck who has had his hands tied behind his back by the FO, and this season is going to be an absolute mess this upcoming year. I think the only thing Opie isn't planning on is the axe hitting him as well.........especially if Cower is interested, but wants more controll than what Opie is willing to let go. Get prepared guys, becasue this time next year we could be doing this whole bunch of BS all over again.

Jeeezuzzzzzzz

U formed the coalition with Vers...What a shame...lol...

U guys r funnier than [censored] if u think the FAN can see this and Crennel don't...

Do u think for ONE F'IN MINUTE if this was the case that Crennel wouldn't UP AND WALK RIGHT NOW...

I love readin' this stuff...Part-Time FO Folks...FROM A FAN BASE...

Happy New Year... <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

No....Do a reality show... [color:"white"] "So You Want To Be An NFL Head Coach"[/color] All fans, media, coaches and players can apply, show their football skills, knowledge of the game, game management skills and player evaluation skills, then every week... TV viewers around the world can call an 800 number and vote for who they think would be the best coach. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

I mean... What the hell ... If you can have a reality show that leaves the casting decisions of a Broadway Play in the hands of the masses....Why not the head coaching decisions of an NFL football team... now [color:"white"] THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT [/color] <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] this wasn't Opie's screwup but JRs.......and it's come back to bite us in the ass 2 years later. Opie however is responsible for Leon, and imo is deflecting his responsiblilty to RAC to keep the heat off his ass. I mean if Jr is pissed about BE being an ass than why not put the heat on the guy who brought him in here when we all knew he had a history of being an ass??? Leon is Opie's screw up, and he's deflecting the heat from himself onto the coaching staff saying they can't handle him.

[/color]
HMMMM..Leon was Opie's pick but remember he had him ranked as the BPA..and I think he felt that Leon wouldn't be a problem..but it seems clear now that The departure of Robo is due to his failure to control Antonio Bryant last year and his failure to control Edwards this year. Both made more WR news with their antics than they did with their play....perhaps Randy recalls a player named Kevin Johnson that Robo couldn't get control of either.WR's not prepared, running the wrong routes, all that is going to point to the WR coach..and I suspect the performance of all the offensive units went like this when Lerner /Opie looked at it.

IMO I think Lerner communicated to Phil to get a staff in place to take control of the offense and if Rac can't coach the players and the team looks pitiful he's gone but the assistants stay..
Sort of what they were trying to do with Frye..get the pieces in place then look SOLEY at him to evaluate his skills.
I don't think Phil is making Rac a scape goat at all..or lame duck..I think he batted for him against Lerner(who with Collins brought him in) ..but in the end something had to go..and it was Rac's assistants..plus those guys were NOT being a cohesive unit amongst themselves ..again too much descention at the top..guys with their own agendas...or not doing things the way the top guys wanted them done..

i haven't been reading this much in the last few days and just wanted to run this by you guys.
let's just say that this was totally ope's decision to release these coaches. it has been reported that mo, and coates used the same heavy handed tactics in their coaching methods. also reported was lott yelling at players much in the same way.
i was wondering if the rats staff were different in their coaching methods and ope wanted more of that here. we all know the rat players are thugs, but does anybody know anything about how the coaches operated?

[color:"red"]"Leon is Opie's screw up, and he's deflecting the heat from himself onto the coaching staff saying they can't handle him."

[color:"orange"]I'm sorry - I must of missed something - I've been getting excited about the draft. Can you please advise when, where this transpired?

Or this some make up stuff???

JMH? <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> thanks in advance.

Yeah DnD, because you have been so "right-on" w/your predictions. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

In fact, you have been dead wrong on just about everything you've said.

[color:"white"] Couch is going to be a great QB.

Collins is not going to cause problems Vers, you are just bitter.

We should pick Nat Dorsey in the first.

This team won't need to tear-down and rebuild, all we need to do is fire Butch, there's talent here.

We will be stable now that Junior has his guys in place.
[/color]

Hey Know-It-All..............you want me to continue?

I really don't mind when people voice their opinions, even when they are way out of whack, but it's freaking BS for you to criticize others, who have been right way more than you.

You keep knocking the things I say and then ignore them when they come true. Then you start over again. You're being as big of an ass as some of the other dolts on the boards.

ok, the other possibility is that the Browns do improve and RAC stays, making Savage look like a genius and helping RAC look like a better HC.

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Classic <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

If your talking about the post in general, than I did say at the top it was my opinion, and wasn't based on anything I knew, but rather on things I read and then assumed on some things. I think the fact that Opie didn't have a chance to pick his coach is a problem, becuase they don't seem to jive on O philosophy...........that's my opinion, but it's also an opinion that I think has some fact behind it considering Opie is picking the guys on the O this time and not RAC.............his way of getting the philosophy that wasn't there to begin with, becuase RAC wasn't his guy, but rather Jr.'s and Collins.


The part with Leon I guess is pretty much all opinion, but eo I wonder is Jr. really that stupid to pin the blame on RAC for BE's antics when it's obvious he was like that before he got here??? I have to wonder if Opie isn't behind the scenes in much the same way as Collins was, and is pointing the finger at RAC and saying they can't controll him. It's an opinion, and I could be wrong, but I don't think I am..........we'll see.

Oh and to DnD and the others............I haven't even turned on Opie, becuase I think that that he was handed a pretty crappy hand not having the ability to pick his own coach, and being forced to take on Lerner and Collins guy in RAC..........it was wrong, and we are now seeing part of the reason why. My point was that RAC and the staff shouldn't take the heat for not being able to control Leon, but that's Opie's fault for bringing him in here, and he should be held accountable not anyone else. I just wondered who was putting the bug in Jr.s ear that it's RAC's fault (Opie??) or is Jr. just that big of an idiot. Oh and bro you can dawg me all you want, but we haven't had a season where we've won more than 6 games in the 6 years since Jr.s taken over.......sorry bro we have a problem up top, and it isn't going away. That's not me buying into Vers stuff (who I actually argued against recently regarding Savage's drafts), but it's just the truth.


We have a problem up top in the organization.

Quote me ONE [censored] TIME [censored]....That I said take Dorsey with the SIXTH pick in the 2004 draft...

U CAN'T...

I'll be back BONER...

Come on man...you know I am your bud and I posted my comment above as a joke....but you know darn good and well you were all over Dorsey...."Nat the Kat".

We were having a board draft and you were pulling people together to vote in Nat since the Browns pick was a board vote....i distinctly told you that if that happend, I was pulling out of the draft since I knew that was about as crazy a pick as possible.

I know you remember that.

That is the thing with me...one of the things that has helped me in life...I have nearly total recall of over 90% of conversations and lectures and presented material.....been tested...

I can't spell for crap, but I sure as heck remember what I read or what was said.

[color:"white"]

Racer hit on it. Opie could either request or have his duties reduced, thus opening up the possibility for someone to come in and be GM at the same time as the coach. That would bring someone like Cowher into play.

Now I'm not advocating Cowher having total control. Far from it. What I am saying is that it's a possibility.[/color]

I don't want to say a whole lot, but all of us have missed on predictions. I have buried the hatchet and agree with much of what two of those talking about being wrong have said recently....but let's not forget one of these guys contemplating if KH would make the Pro Bowl and the other pimping him as the starter the Browns needed. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"]I have to wonder if Opie isn't behind the scenes in much the same way as Collins was, and is pointing the finger at RAC and saying they can't controll him. [/color]
U know anything is possible..
Phil wants his job just like anyone does..but there's a lot going on behind the scenes..
Now I want to point out something most people who want Rac out aren't going to agree with..(don't really care either)..
Rac was brought in late and the choices of assistants were scarce..I doubt if he truely put together a staff he really liked..
This time it looks like Phil is going to be more hands on this time to ensure they get a COMPETENT staff in place , with guys who are qualified to move up if the need arises..
Remember Rac's hiring was more of Lerner/Collins than Phil...

[color:"red"] I just wondered who was putting the bug in Jr.s ear that it's RAC's fault (Opie??) or is Jr. just that big of an idiot [/color]
Seems to me any owner of a team KNOWS who handles the players when they blow up..and usually the position coachs are the ones who work with them closely right???
Our WR's over the years have had big mouths and poor attitudes not all but U can name the ones who were problems....seems Robo was on his own plan..whatevea that was..

[color:"GOLD"] Tacker is right on target with some common sense.

I too tried to point out that the best assitant coaches were gone by the time Crennel started putting together a staff. Common sense tell us he got the leftovers.

Savage is now the man that reports to Lerner, make no mistake about it. Savage hears it from Lerner when the team sucks so Savage is the one who must give an honest look at the job everyone in the organization is doing.

Savage has extraordinary access to all practices and coaches meetings if nothing but an observer. Savage has been around 'good' organization and knows very well whether a coach measures up or not.

It was written that Lerner was ready to fire Crennel and Savage stepped in with some reason and likely pointed out the very same things that Tackers pointed out above.

Hard to blame RAC if the cupboard was bare.

Get rid of the coaches who can't do the job and start over on the offense.

Next season could be Crennel's new beginning or his end.

It will depend on the performance of the team.
[/color]

I'm not really talking about the asst. coach firings, but when I read a report that says that Jr. isn't happy with the way Leon acted, and then indirectly blamed the coaching staff I wonder who is putting that in his ear..........because it's BS. Bro, when these kids get to this level there is very little you can do to control them.........if he's a Wilson with a big mouth you have options, becuase he was a mid round pick that doesn't have alot of $$$ given to him...............he hasn't reached that big payday. However, BE is a multi-millionare who thinks your a joke because he could by and sell you 10 times over. He also knows your not going to bench him for any extensive time because it hurts the team, and knows that the salary cap prevents him from being cut. If you draft a top 5 player and he's a pain in the butt you stuck with him and his mouth.

I say again the blame with BE lies with the fellow that brought hiim here when it was known he had a history of this kind of behavior. Attack, if Opie is a guru when he get's us guys like Kam, then he's also the dud for getting us guys like BE................give all credit where credit is deserved........whether good or bad.

I say again I'm not blaming this mess on Phil, but rather on Jr for not letting the GM pick his coach and build the organization his way in the 1st place.

[color:"red"]I'm not really talking about the asst. coach firings, but when I read a report that says that Jr. isn't happy with the way Leon acted, and then indirectly blamed the coaching staff I wonder who is putting that in his ear. [/color]
Once more, the OWNER knows who that falls upon outside of the player..no one HAS to whisper anything in his ear ..but he probably went to Phil the GM(next in command) and spouted off who is allowing this to happen OR WHO NEEDS TO SHUT HIM DOWN...
And Jr knows who brought Leon in..he knows Rac didn't...Opie did..however Opie isn't the one to HANDLE Brababy...the coaches are...get it? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Now if Jr. wants Braybaby OUT , WHO'S going to be assigned that task?
The Coaches? Nope..Opie..does that fall on Rac's lap?
No he didn't draft him.
Phil drafted him because he was a actual BPA...red flags and all..

You're concentrating on Leon when there are issues involving the assistants that go beyond him..he's mixed in there but not the only part.

[color:"red"] I say again the blame with BE lies with the fellow that brought hiim here when it was known he had a history of this kind of behavior [/color]
Who else was he going to draft if that was the best rated guy on your board and he's there? <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />