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Wanted to post this and figured I would just start a thread for tomorrows series... http://www.cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10771374CLEVELAND -- Fausto Carmona, a surprising 19-game winner last season, has agreed to terms on a seven-year contract with the Cleveland Indians. A person familiar with the negotiations says Carmona's deal will be announced later Thursday. The person spoke on the condition of anonymity because the contract has not been finalized. The deal includes club options from 2012-2014. The 24-year-old Carmona went 19-7 with a 3.06 ERA and emerged as one of the AL's top starters in 2007, one season after he went 1-10. His signing gives the Indians protection in case they are unable to re-sign C.C. Sabathia, the defending Cy Young Award winner, who is eligible for free agency following this season. AP NEWS The Associated Press News Service Copyright 2007-2008, The Associated Press, All Rights Reserved
Last edited by Referee 3; 04/10/08 11:41 AM.
Eat it Phil...
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I'd rather have Carmona than Sabathia.
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I'd rather have Carmona than Sabathia.
Right now, I would agree with that.
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I agree, and im assuming at a much cheaper price, although it didnt say.
Eat it Phil...
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Man...there the Indians go again spending...spending...spending more & more money on good proven talent.....man....when are we gonna stop spending and start saving money...we need a real scroodge of an owner... 
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Man...there the Indians go again spending...spending...spending more & more money on good proven talent.....man....when are we gonna stop spending and start saving money...we need a real scroodge of an owner...
Eat it Phil...
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Legend
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I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Bring back Joey Belle!!
"JOEEEEY,JOEEEEEY, JOEEEEEY" "EVERYONE DUCK!! INCOMING!!!" 
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I'd rather have Carmona than Sabathia.
I think this pretty much says "Bye, bye Fatman (Sabathia)". I don't think they will put on the full court press to sign CC after this. Perhaps he could be Shaffer's eventual replacement at right tackle? 
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Great move, give money to proven young pitcher that will only get better. C.C. is a proven bust in big games, he lets his emotions get the best of him. Plus C.C. has average control at best.
Unfortunatley this is gonna be a very long year for the Tribe, they are in serious trouble. They have 2-3 good starters, Bryd is done and Cliff could fall off the wagon tommorow.
Our problem is how pathetic our lineup is. Last year we made up for it getting the clutch hits w/ WISP and 2 outs: We got lucky.
this year we have 2 good hitters in grady and Victor, Pronk is a #5 hitter at best, he's a .270/20 homer guy. Jhonny and casey are good role players, but again are .270/15 homer guys. Garko is good but once again isn't gonna wow you, he could hit .280/20 bombs.
The killers are Micheals and Delluci, absolute horrible players, neither shoud be MLB players.
The indians should have went with Ben Francisco, but no the genuis Wedge goes with what didnt work last year Micheals/Delluci.
Bottom line: The Tribe has no offense, decent starters 2-3, average bullpen, and the worst closer in the big's.
I think this is a .500 at best team right now, plus I think C.C. will be traded in July.
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This is phenomenal 
I heart winning
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Great move, give money to proven young pitcher that will only get better. C.C. is a proven bust in big games, he lets his emotions get the best of him. Plus C.C. has average control at best.
Unfortunatley this is gonna be a very long year for the Tribe, they are in serious trouble. They have 2-3 good starters, Bryd is done and Cliff could fall off the wagon tommorow.
Our problem is how pathetic our lineup is. Last year we made up for it getting the clutch hits w/ WISP and 2 outs: We got lucky.
this year we have 2 good hitters in grady and Victor, Pronk is a #5 hitter at best, he's a .270/20 homer guy. Jhonny and casey are good role players, but again are .270/15 homer guys. Garko is good but once again isn't gonna wow you, he could hit .280/20 bombs.
The killers are Micheals and Delluci, absolute horrible players, neither shoud be MLB players.
The indians should have went with Ben Francisco, but no the genuis Wedge goes with what didnt work last year Micheals/Delluci.
Bottom line: The Tribe has no offense, decent starters 2-3, average bullpen, and the worst closer in the big's.
I think this is a .500 at best team right now, plus I think C.C. will be traded in July.
 Wow, I am pretty busy right now, but there are a a TON of holes in your post.
I heart winning
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It will be a much cheaper price. They are buying out arbitration, plus a year or two of free agency, depending on how the deal is structured. GREAT move!
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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J/C... I'll just copy and paste what I wrote in the deleted thread about Carmona.
All I have to say is this is great news! Contract numbers haven't been released but I'm sure the contract isn't terrible given the possible length. It's almost like what we did with Grady by giving him a long term deal through arbitration and then locking him up into his first couple free agency years... Plus it gives the Indians some security if Carmona gets injured with the options. I know a lot of people will probably see this as giving up on C.C. but I'm not so sure that's the case. Length has been the sticking point of those negotiations and this may show that the Indians are willing to add a year to C.C.'s offer... Who knows. You have to remember that between Paul Byrd and Jamey Carrol alone, almost 10 million dollars comes off the books this coming offseason. That would be offset the increase in C.C.'s contract. We'll also have increased revenue this year considering tickets are selling at a much faster pace than last season. We'll see how it turns out but I'm definitely glad to have Fausto locked up!
Time and change will surely show
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O - HI - O
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I agree, and im assuming at a much cheaper price, although it didnt say.
I would guess it's in the 8-10 million per range. If it's any cheaper then that, I will be ecstatic.
Even so, that's a bargain rate for the pitcher I believe Carmona can be, not only this year, but down the road as well. He's blossoming in to what appears to be a true #1. Whenever you can lock those kind of guys up early in their careers, you do it.
Another great move by Shapiro and I couldn't be happier for Fausto. He persevered through one of the toughest stretches I've ever seen a young pitcher go through and came out of it a better player. He deserves every penny.
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Nice to hear. I've thought that Carmona has a chance to be better than Carlston Charles. Good to see we've got him locked up long term. He's got some nasty stuff.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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The value of the four-year guarantee was not immediately known. But it is known that if the deal goes the distance, Carmona will earn $43 million over the seven years, with escalators pushing its potential value to $48 million. It is the highest-ever guarantee to a pre-arbitration-eligible starting pitcher and the highest-ever guarantee to a starting pitcher with only one full year of service time. It is similar to the contract the Rays recently gave to starter James Shields, albeit with a higher potential value. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=...sp&c_id=cle
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The value of the four-year guarantee was not immediately known. But it is known that if the deal goes the distance, Carmona will earn $43 million over the seven years, with escalators pushing its potential value to $48 million.
So on the low end it's around 6, on the high end it's around 7. Seems like a fair deal for both sides IMO.
Isn't Bryd making 7.5 million? I know he's a vet but that's a no brainer if you're taking your pick of the two.
We've done well taking chances on guys like Seizmore and Martinez, in terms of signing them early.....hopefully Fausto falls more in line with those two and stays away from whatever line it is that JhonnE6 Peralta is in.
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Peralta appears to be one of our better hitters so far this season. I haven't been able to watch a game yet thus far however his numbers are one of the highest on the team at this point. Hopefully he has finally turned that corner.
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Peralta appears to be one of our better hitters so far this season. I haven't been able to watch a game yet thus far however his numbers are one of the highest on the team at this point. Hopefully he has finally turned that corner.
His hitting has never been the problem for me, especially since he's a SS. He'll hit for power and drive in some runs (which is a plus from a player up the middle) but his fielding and base-running drive me NUTS.
The play that sums it all up for me happened last season when he got picked off, at first base, with the bases loaded.  Seriously?
He's a solid hitter for a SS but I'd prefer if he had a little more glove and a little more common sense. Statistically, he's one of the worst fielding SS in the majors in both errors made and runs cost. I'm still having trouble understanding why he's still anchoring the infield? I know his contract is a bargain and he has a decent bat but that's a poor reason to leave a guy at SS IMO.
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He's a solid hitter for a SS but I'd prefer if he had a little more glove and a little more common sense. Statistically, he's one of the worst fielding SS in the majors in both errors made and runs cost. I'm still having trouble understanding why he's still anchoring the infield? I know his contract is a bargain and he has a decent bat but that's a poor reason to leave a guy at SS IMO.
If not SS, where would we move Peralta? Outfield? He sure as heck can't be moved to 3rd because his reaction time is horrible and he'd get eaten up at the hot corner.
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He's a solid hitter for a SS but I'd prefer if he had a little more glove and a little more common sense. Statistically, he's one of the worst fielding SS in the majors in both errors made and runs cost. I'm still having trouble understanding why he's still anchoring the infield? I know his contract is a bargain and he has a decent bat but that's a poor reason to leave a guy at SS IMO.
If not SS, where would we move Peralta? Outfield? He sure as heck can't be moved to 3rd because his reaction time is horrible and he'd get eaten up at the hot corner.
I would move him to left field, Drubs to SS and bring Barfield up from AAA. Josh is really seeing the ball well right now.
We're not getting any production from the position with Michaels/Delucci and I think Peralta could play atleast a decent left field based on his strong arm and above average athleticism. It could be a bit of an adventure early but I think he could adjust much like Soriano has.
If we didn't want to go that extreme, I would even consider flipping Cabrera and Peralta. It doesn't solve his fielding problems but it may cover them up a bit more.
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[quoteI think Peralta could play atleast a decent left field based on his strong arm and above average athleticism.
Have you seen the way Johnny P loolygags after balls now?? Imagine him chasing fly balls in the outfield. 
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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He's a solid hitter for a SS but I'd prefer if he had a little more glove and a little more common sense. Statistically, he's one of the worst fielding SS in the majors in both errors made and runs cost. I'm still having trouble understanding why he's still anchoring the infield? I know his contract is a bargain and he has a decent bat but that's a poor reason to leave a guy at SS IMO.
If not SS, where would we move Peralta? Outfield? He sure as heck can't be moved to 3rd because his reaction time is horrible and he'd get eaten up at the hot corner.
I would move him to left field, Drubs to SS and bring Barfield up from AAA. Josh is really seeing the ball well right now.
We're not getting any production from the position with Michaels/Delucci and I think Peralta could play atleast a decent left field based on his strong arm and above average athleticism. It could be a bit of an adventure early but I think he could adjust much like Soriano has.
If we didn't want to go that extreme, I would even consider flipping Cabrera and Peralta. It doesn't solve his fielding problems but it may cover them up a bit more.
They were talking about this on the radio yesterday and they said there had been talk of Blake to LF, Barfield to 2nd, Druby to SS and Peralta to 3rd. I'm all for that except the Peralta to 3rd part. He would get destroyed being even closer to home plate.
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They were talking about this on the radio yesterday and they said there had been talk of Blake to LF, Barfield to 2nd, Druby to SS and Peralta to 3rd. I'm all for that except the Peralta to 3rd part. He would get destroyed being even closer to home plate.
Yeah, I agree. I think I saw a stat somewhere where Peralta did play 3rd for a brief stint in AAA and had something like 14-15 errors in less then 60 games. 
Just to put that in perspective, I believe he had 19 errors all of last year at SS and that puts him as statistically one of the worst SS in all of baseball. Not hard to do the math and determine how utterly terrible he was at 3B. 
I'm sure he can improve but the question is how much?
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General question for everyone.....after locking up Carmona, would you consider moving CC for a big outfield bat if no contract resolution was in sight? and leaning on lets say Laffy/Lofgren or Miller to fill out the rotation?
Just kind of interested in everyone's thoughts.
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would you consider moving CC for a big outfield bat if no contract resolution was in sight? and leaning on lets say Laffy/Lofgren or Miller to fill out the rotation?
yes I would depending on who that bat is, I would also want a pitching prospect if possible.
I do believe this is what the Indians are bracing themself for that possiblity of having to trade CC this season.
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General question for everyone.....after locking up Carmona, would you consider moving CC for a big outfield bat if no contract resolution was in sight? and leaning on lets say Laffy/Lofgren or Miller to fill out the rotation?
Just kind of interested in everyone's thoughts.
I guess it depends on where they are in the standings at the trading deadline. If they were to trade him, while in contention (leading the division or 2-3 games out), it kinda sends the message that "we're giving up on the season". If they are 10-12 games out??? Deal him!
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I guess it depends on where they are in the standings at the trading deadline.
It could also depend on whether he improves on his 7.5 ERA... 
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
General question for everyone.....after locking up Carmona, would you consider moving CC for a big outfield bat if no contract resolution was in sight? and leaning on lets say Laffy/Lofgren or Miller to fill out the rotation?
Just kind of interested in everyone's thoughts.
I guess it depends on where they are in the standings at the trading deadline. If they were to trade him, while in contention (leading the division or 2-3 games out), it kinda sends the message that "we're giving up on the season". If they are 10-12 games out??? Deal him!
I would not be in favor of trading him unless we are way out of both the division and the wild card, which i don't see happening.
I dont understand why people are even worrying about it yet, we have played 9 games and I have faith that CC is going to be a big part of our return to October. People talk about all this choke stuff with CC, while the bottom line is that we would not have even been in those positions without CC's great regular season last year.
I heart winning
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I guess it depends on where they are in the standings at the trading deadline.
It could also depend on whether he improves on his 7.5 ERA...
That's true. Even if he does pitch "lights out" the rest of the way, I don't know how sold I am on locking him up for 6-7 years (doubt we offer him that).
The guy is already pushing "3 bills" on the scale and he just looks sloppy. Sure, he might be able to handle that weight, while he's young, but it will catch up to him, eventually.
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I dont understand why people are even worrying about it yet,
Because some Tribe fans just love to bitch and moan when we dont go 150-12 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I dont understand why people are even worrying about it yet,
Because some Tribe fans just love to bitch and moan when we dont go 150-12
and when it costs too much to drive to the stadium.
yebat' Putin
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I could ride my bike 110 miles to the field 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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If you want to go to the game so bad you should move close to the stadium.
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Indians sink big bucks into Fausto Carmona, agreeing to $15 million, 4-year deal CLEVELAND (AP)—The Indians tucked away one of their aces. Fausto Carmona, a surprising 19-game winner who wasn’t bugged by swarming insects in his first postseason start last October, agreed Thursday to a $15 million, four-year contract with the Indians, a deal that potentially can earn him $48 million. There was no rush to sign the 24-year-old, but the Indians are convinced Carmona’s best days are ahead and rewarded him with the highest guarantee to a pre-arbitration eligible starter. “This is a guy who has shown he wants to be great,” Indians general manager Mark Shapiro said. “He has exceptional toughness, exceptional talent and intelligence. Those things combined with his work ethic made this a very easy decision.” Carmona’s signing also gives the Indians protection in case they can’t keep reigning AL Cy Young Award winner C.C. Sabathia, who is eligible for free agency following this season. Sabathia rejected a preliminary offer from the club, and during spring training he suspended negotiations until after the season. There’s no guarantee Sabathia will be back, and if he’s not, Carmona will ascend into the No. 1 role. Assistant GM Chris Antonetti said Carmona’s signing will allow the club to better plan for the future, but it has no bearing on its ability to re-sign Sabathia. “They are not interrelated,” Antonetti said, “and it certainly wouldn’t hurt to have two 19-game winners in the rotation. We would like to have five of them.” Carmona doesn’t want to consider the possibility of replacing Sabathia. “I want C.C. to stay here,” he said through first-base coach Luis Rivera. “I want C.C. to be the No. 1 for a long time. I don’t care if I’m No. 2 for a long time.” With a wicked sinker, Carmona went 19-8 with a 3.06 ERA in 32 starts and emerged as one of the AL’s top pitchers in 2007, one season after he went 1-10 and had a disastrous tryout as Cleveland’s closer. But it was how Carmona bounced back from adversity that impressed the Indians, who signed him in 2000 as a 17-year-old. In just over a week’s span in 2006, Carmona blew three saves, losing twice on game-ending homers. But the kid who used to pretend he was Pedro Martinez while throwing rocks on his parents’ farm in the Dominican Republic, never let the failure affect him. “Never once during those struggles did he ever show it was getting him down,” Shapiro said. “When we were worried about him, he wasn’t worried about himself. He always had that confidence, that toughness that ‘I’m going to beat the other guy.”’ Carmona gets a $750,000 signing bonus and guaranteed salaries of $500,000 this year, $2.75 million in 2009, $4.9 million in 2010 and $6.1 million in 2011. The Indians have options for $7 million in 2012, $9 million in 2013 and $14 million in 2014. The price of the first option could escalate by $1 million and the price on the other two by $2 million each. Carmona joins a core group of young players—along with Grady Sizemore, Travis Hafner, Victor Martinez and Jake Westbrook—who have signed long-term deals with the Indians. The Indians and Carmona’s agent, Jorge Brito, agreed to the deal before his first start this season, a dominating win over the Chicago White Sox. The team wanted to wait until it completed a West Coast trip before announcing Carmona’s new contract. Carmona, who had agreed last month to a one-year contract paying $457,800 in the majors and $228,900 in the minors, said his farming parents showed him the value of hard work. He’s building them a new home, a gift he was reluctant to share publicly. Fausto Carmona, shown in this Feb. 26, 2008 file photo, a surprising 19-game winner last season, has agreed to terms on a seven-year contract with the Cleveland Indians. A person familiar with the negotiations says Carmona's deal will be announced later Thursday April 10, 2008. “That’s the kind of man Fausto is,” Brito said. “He does things for people and doesn’t want headlines. He helps children at home. He helps his family, but he doesn’t want to talk about it.” Carmona, who finished second in the AL in ERA, began the ‘07 season with a loss to Chicago, extending his losing streak to 11 straight games. He finally snapped it by beating Minnesota’s Johan Santana, but was optioned to the minor leagues when Cliff Lee came off the disabled list. But before he reported to Triple-A Buffalo, Carmona was back when right-hander Jake Westbrook went down with an injury. He pitched his first complete game shutout in May, again beating Santana, a two-time Cy Young winner. Carmona eventually won seven straight decisions, and then went 9-4 with a major league-best 2.26 ERA in the second half. “He probably had as good a first season as anybody we’ve ever had,” Shapiro said. Carmona made a memorable debut in the playoffs. Matched up with New York’s Andy Pettitte, he allowed the Yankees just three hits and no earned runs in nine innings, pitching the final two as tiny insects called midges covered his head. While the small critters got the best of Yankees reliever Joba Chamberlain, Carmona was able to keep his poise and pitch during a game never to be forgotten. “I had a job to do and I could not let my mind think about anything else,” Carmona said. “I could see the bugs. I could feel them. But I couldn’t think about them.”
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General question for everyone.....after locking up Carmona, would you consider moving CC for a big outfield bat if no contract resolution was in sight? and leaning on lets say Laffy/Lofgren or Miller to fill out the rotation?
Just kind of interested in everyone's thoughts.
There's almost no way I would do this for a few reasons.
1. We are legitimate contenders to win a championship THIS season. Even if we lose C.C. at the end of the year, the chance to bring home a World Series is enough to keep him around.
2. Great hitters are always easier to find than great pitchers. Almost every offseason there are a handful of very good to great hitters available on the open market. The same can not be said of starting pitchers. It would have to be an elite hitter for me to do that trade and even then I'd probably hesitate.
3. It's not written in stone, despite what all of the negative people say, that C.C. is gone. If enough fans come out to Progressive Field (  ) and we make a deep playoff run or even win it all management could easily do what it takes to keep C.C. It would be an exception to Shapiro's blueprint (giving a long term lucrative deal to a starting pitcher) but they did the same thing when it came to Jim Thome. Obviously he didn't stay, but the offer from the Indians went against the rebuild and the blueprint.
Now, only hindsight will tell us what the right decision is. C.C. could resign, become an Indian legend, and help win a couple of World Series. He could also leave without us getting anything (besides a draft pick) like Thome, Manny, and Albert. We'll see. Right now I'm going to plan on watching a great season of Indians baseball that culminates in a championship and then worry about C.C...
Time and change will surely show
How firm thy friendship
O - HI - O
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
Quote:
General question for everyone.....after locking up Carmona, would you consider moving CC for a big outfield bat if no contract resolution was in sight? and leaning on lets say Laffy/Lofgren or Miller to fill out the rotation?
Just kind of interested in everyone's thoughts.
Seeing as how I doubt Bryd-man and Cliff make it through mid-season, i'd say that 2 of those 3 would be in the same rotation by the time we got to the "trade CC" part of the season.
No way in hell would I do that. You have a chance to win the world series this year, next year can wait.
you had a good run Hank.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
Maybe Fausto will be able to invest some of his new bread into some of those "Learn English" CDs.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349 |
Quote:
I could ride my bike 110 miles to the field
Make sure you wear your white nurses uniform 
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Oakland @ Cleveland Series/Carmona
Signs New Deal
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