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just clicking.
I'm watching the replay of the Dolphins game right now on NFL Network. DA made about 3 throws in the 1st half that were freaking incredible, beautiful throws that IMO very few QBs can make.
That's the reason I was so adamant about signing him and not letting him go. He made me eat my words by his play during the season. He has some big holes in his game up the upside is huge.
I'm not an expert on fixing mechanics and footwork. I do believe that he should be able to improve on those things (even if he has big feet). That should lead to cutting down on his inacurate passes. He is horrible in his 1st 10 pass attempt in every game. I think that has more to do will his mental makeup. I think he can also overcome that to some extent.
He does struggle mightly with the shorter touch throws. I think that shouldn't be that tough to fix.
His decision making is erattic at times. I think that has more to do with his big arm and how he was taught at Oregon State. I don't think this will really improve to much. The thing is he is able to complete so many big plays because he does throw so hard into coverage that many balls get through the double and even triple coverage.
He has his strengths and his weaknesses. I don't know if he can overcome his weaknesses enough to be a top QB or not. I am willing to give him a chance.
#gmstrong
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The man can read a defense, no question in my mind. My biggest concern is his physical game, and if he can develop CONSISTENT touch and accuracy. Consistent being the biggest word here.
The man can read a defense? So you are saying that DAs mistakes have not been mental but rather physical? The exact opposite is true. The questions on DA are in the mental apsect. There is no doubt he has the physical attributes but it is when he refers back to his DUM DUM days from college that he makes mistakes like throwing into double and triple coverage. Yes he could use a little better touch but most of his INTS were not bad throws, they were bad decisions.
KING
I disagree. Here's how he got in trouble and made dumb decisions/throws...
He was missing on the short stuff, so we were often stuck in situations where he had to force the ball downfield.
I'll be honest, besides that Bengals game (and one dumb pick in the Niners game that happened on the first drive) I thought his decision making was light years ahead of where it was to start the year.
I really think his misfirings on the short stuff was what led to quite a bit of his bad decisions. But he was eating defenses alive when he saw a blitz coming. That's a trait that can't go unnoticed, especially when a big sign of questionable QB play is whether or not you cave to the blitz.
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Another typical post from someone that looks at the stats and then says it proves them right without looking at the situations. Pitt STOPPED BLITZING when DA was in the game. Don't let those pesky little facts get in the way of you blowing garbage all over the board in your rush to hate on a guy because he wouldn't give you an autograph. You never do. Shouldn't you be kneeling at your altar to Troy Smith with the #3 pick shrine right about know?  The only "mockery" around here is you posing as someone with football intelligence, as usual.
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Another typical post from someone that looks at the stats and then says it proves them right without looking at the situations. Pitt STOPPED BLITZING when DA was in the game. Don't let those pesky little facts get in the way of you blowing garbage all over the board in your rush to hate on a guy because he wouldn't give you an autograph. You never do. Shouldn't you be kneeling at your altar to Troy Smith with the #3 pick shrine right about know?
The only "mockery" around here is you posing as someone with football intelligence, as usual.
Here we go again...
Yes, I know Pitt stopped blitzing Anderson. I said his best performances were against blitzing teams and that Anderson struggled when opposing D's took the deep ball away. AFTER THE 2ND PITTSBURGH GAME, TEAMS STOPPED BLITZING. I've been saying that for months. It's also partially why Lewis really caught fire down the stretch, that and Tucker being placed at RG.
If you wanna talk about other reasons beyond stats, you could look at the crappy weather we played in down the stretch.
But what I have been saying is that if he improves on his short game, then we have ourselves a damn good QB. That's IF, and personally, I think it's a stretch that it will happen. But the reality exists that it could happen. I'm less of a believer in DA than Vers is but I certainly see where he's coming from.
I'm not looking at stats either cuz stats are for losers. I see with my eyes. And what I saw was a slower, weak armed version of Michael Vick in Frye. Oh wait, he didn't kill any dogs too.
And if you don't think Frye was a garbage QB, obviously you need your eyes checked. My god...do you honestly think he would have done what Anderson did last year? All it took was a half of football to see that it wasn't the OL that was the problem in that game, it was the QB!
With Frye, we go 6-10 or even 4-12 again and our O ranks near the bottom of the league, period, especially with how awful our D was in the first 6 weeks of the year.
And enough with the autograph thing. Quinn could snub me for an autograph and I wouldn't hate him, I'd only hate him if he was the worst starting QB I've ever seen take a snap in a Browns uniform, and that's what Frye was. Couch looked like a pro bowler compared to Frye, and Couch was miserable too.
My God...it's funny how a few months ago I was considered a Quinn lover and here I am defending DA, yet in the end I STILL say Quinn's gonna be the better player. I'm not just gonna completely dump on Anderson when I do see the potential.
Last edited by Ammo; 04/14/08 05:49 PM.
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It really comes down to DA being able to work on his weakness's and if he can change his mechanics without screwing up his strengths.
I still feel it should be an open competition between Quinn and DA, quite simply the best man will win. If DA is a good as hyped, and worked on what he needed to this offseason, he should have zero problems out playing Quinn.
Maybe this is what Phil meant by DA being the starter going in, I guess it comes down to when does the season start? Camp, preseason, or the real thing? Personally, I think Phil and RAC intend DA to start game one regardless.
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Blah, Blah, Blah, and Smith was worth the #3 pick in the draft. Keep spouting. At least YOU believe you have a clue as to what it takes to be a QB.  You can't even read and comprehend when your babblings have been refuted. You want so much for people to believe you have a clue. Those that do know football constantly laugh at your posts. This one is no different. Hey, tell us again how much you know because your daddy agreed with you and you played on the OL in high school.
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Blah, Blah, Blah, and Smith was worth the #3 pick in the draft. Keep spouting. At least YOU believe you have a clue as to what it takes to be a QB.
You can't even read and comprehend when your babblings have been refuted. You want so much for people to believe you have a clue. Those that do know football constantly laugh at your posts. This one is no different.
Hey, tell us again how much you know because your daddy agreed with you and you played on the OL in high school.
And of course you ignore football talk and reply with personal attacks. Real mature.
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The next time you use football talk will be the first time. You attack someone because you didn't like it you got snubbed for an autograph, then you talk about someone else's maturity. If you could talk football, you would understand the original post I made stating that Pitt stopped blitzing in the first game you point to as so much evidence when DA went in. You would also know that teams stopped blitzing so much, not because of DA, but because we had an outstanding OL that could handle the blitz and a very good RB that needed to be contained. If you could talk football, you would realize just how ignorant your statement was that Frye was the worst QB to ever take a snap for the Browns. Your immaturity and hatred for not getting an autograph prevents that. Too bad you don't have 1/10th of the class and maturity as the guy you constantly attack. I didn't know reminding you that you wanted TROY SMITH with the #3 pick in the draft was a personal attack. Don't blame me for reminding you of your "football knowledge". Is it a personal attack to remind you that you said you knew football because you played on the OL in high school or because your dad and friends agreed with you sitting on the couch? It's not a personal attack to remind you of YOUR OWN WORDS when you were proclaiming yourself so knowledgeable of the game. Then again, what do I know, I've only been coaching since 1991 with a .875 win percentage and now coaching in college. That doesn't compare to the experience you had playhing on the OL in high school. Now, go back to your regular spoutings. Just remember, every time you post your hate spewing lies about Frye, I will be there to put you in your place. 
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Unreal.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Just remember, every time you post your hate spewing lies about Frye, I will be there to put you in your place.
I would hope you'd have better things to do than follow someone around a message board badgering them constantly. But maybe you don't.
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Another fine thread, eh?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Just remember, every time you post your hate spewing lies about Frye, I will be there to put you in your place.
I would hope you'd have better things to do than follow someone around a message board badgering them constantly. But maybe you don't.
I'm not going to defend Coach, but I know why he is always on Ammo's butt. Coach has a personal relationship with Frye and it really gets under his skin the way Ammo has talked about Charlie. Many others put down Charlie for his football ability, but Ammo made it personal.
I may be wrong but I think if I started personnally attacking Sam Hornish, Arch (his cousin) would be all up in my butt.
I guess what I'm trying to say is just because these guys are pro athletes doesn't mean what we say about them doesn't affect their friends and families. Being honest about their playing ability is one thing, or even when it comes to their attitude or trouble with the law. Ammo has crossed that line many times in regard to Charlie. Charlie was always a team player and good citizen. His amount of playing ability is debateable.
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I know why he's on Ammo, and I understand it. And I probably shouldn't have responded, it's just I think there is a time to let things go, and that time came a long time ago, IMO. Hopefully it will be worked out, preferably in private messages.  I like reading both posters thoughts, but not personal attacks by either of them.
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The next time you use football talk will be the first time. You attack someone because you didn't like it you got snubbed for an autograph, then you talk about someone else's maturity.
If you could talk football, you would understand the original post I made stating that Pitt stopped blitzing in the first game you point to as so much evidence when DA went in. You would also know that teams stopped blitzing so much, not because of DA, but because we had an outstanding OL that could handle the blitz and a very good RB that needed to be contained.
If you could talk football, you would realize just how ignorant your statement was that Frye was the worst QB to ever take a snap for the Browns. Your immaturity and hatred for not getting an autograph prevents that. Too bad you don't have 1/10th of the class and maturity as the guy you constantly attack.
So, why would Pittsburgh stop blitzing in that first game, when they were blitzing with effectiveness, so effectively that Frye was sacked 5 times? I mean, why would you stop doing something that was working so well?
Oh wait! I forgot! "4 of the 5 sacks were more on the QB than the offensive line." - Phil Savage, Wills and Snyder interview in September. I knew my eyes weren't tricking me.
Clearly, our OL didn't magically improve the moment DA came into the game. Nor did the Steelers immediately stop with the blitz. They had to adjust because suddenly we had a QB in the game who could read the blitz and get the ball off in time.
We can even rewind to the '06 season where DA wasn't sacked once in Pittsburgh whereas Frye was sacked what, 5 times when they played in Cleveland? Hell I think DA played pretty well that game but was victimized by more drops than I can count.
Look, we get it, you coached Frye in some all-star game so you have this undying love for him, you really think because he snubbed me for an autograph that that's why I dislike him. Couldn't be farther from the truth. Quite frankly I just thought he was an awful QB who made our already bad OL look worse than it actually was. He made terrible decisions and I didn't exactly like his leadership.
If you really think this is about some autograph (which is probably worth 15 cents and a half stick of gum today...I know my Frye poster is) you're sorely, SORELY mistaken.
If he could play, he'd be the guy in DA's shoes, coming off a Pro Bowl season with a new contract, he wouldn't be 3rd on the depth chart in Seattle.
And as far as the Troy Smith nonsense goes, Smith is higher on the depth chart (EDIT: Brain fart, but he did start a few games this year due to McNair's injuries and Boller's ineffectiveness) and did something Frye couldn't do: beat the Steelers. (yes I know how assinine that comment is, but if you wanna grasp at straws so can I)
Last edited by Ammo; 04/14/08 08:20 PM.
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And as far as the Troy Smith nonsense goes, Smith is higher on the depth chart and did something Frye couldn't do: beat the Steelers. (yes I know how assinine that comment is, but if you wanna grasp at straws so can I)
Smith was the Ravens 3rd string QB.
#gmstrong
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Any time Ammo, or anyone, insults Frye, i will stand up for him. As Pdawg said, i know him personally and I know that some of the things said about him are pure BS. It's that simple.
Ammo claims some vast knowledge and he was proven right with one half of football as he said above. The FACT is that Frye was the only one with any trade value and THAT is why he was dealt. The other was a seat warmer for Quinn. DA benefitted from the line gelling and from a solid running game. He took advantage of that and did well. The crap being spewed by Ammo is because of a personal vendetta because he didn't get an autograph from Frye and he had held that against Charlie ever since. I am not going to sit by and see such absurd statements based on personal reasons go by on someone I know that has never shown nothing but class. I'm sorry, I just can't let someone be attacked that way that I have a personal relationship with. When it happens, I will say something whether people like it or not.
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LOL!! This is acutally pretty funny now. As if DA vs. Quinn wasn't bad enough.... now people are arguing over Charlie Frye and Troy Smith again. I must have accidentally flipped on my flux capacitor on the way from work and gone back in time. Great Scott!!
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What Ammo said about Frye is right, he's not attacking Frye personally. I think Frye has all the heart and work ethich in the world, but he was a lousy QB, period. A great cast coulda helped but he was not the answer, that was obvious.
I think you need to seperate your "friendship" with Frye and what he did on the field.
How in the world is this now a DA vs. Quinn vs. Frye?....ok somebody bring up Couch and how he woulda been fine if hed have had a better cast.
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No, Ammo said he was the worst QB to ever take a snap for the Browns. He has also insulted him earlier in the thread. If you believe that, you don't know anything about the history of the Browns' QBs. After all, we had Wynn, McCown, Pederson, Pagel, Zeier, and even KJ take snaps at QB for this franchise in it's history and that's just off the top of my head. I have never let my friendship with Charlie affect my ability to evaluate him. He should have been sat down and allowed to develop to see what he could have turned into. i am not short sighted on what holes he had in his game. Unfortunately, Dilfer was a team cancer and Frye's development was ignored and he was thrown into the fire. Oh, and Ammo already mentioned Couch, so keep up 
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No, Ammo said he was the worst QB to ever take a snap for the Browns. He has also insulted him earlier in the thread. If you believe that, you don't know anything about the history of the Browns' QBs. After all, we had Wynn, McCown, Pederson, Pagel, Zeier, and even KJ take snaps at QB for this franchise in it's history and that's just off the top of my head.
I have never let my friendship with Charlie affect my ability to evaluate him. He should have been sat down and allowed to develop to see what he could have turned into. i am not short sighted on what holes he had in his game. Unfortunately, Dilfer was a team cancer and Frye's development was ignored and he was thrown into the fire.
Oh, and Ammo already mentioned Couch, so keep up
I said worst STARTING QB for the Browns that I've seen IN MY LIFETIME.
My lifetime = Kosar, Testaverde, Couch, Holcomb, Garcia, Dilfer, Frye, Anderson.
That DOES NOT include Wynn, Pederson, McCown and those stiffs...they weren't the anointed starters for a season.
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You're still wrong, but what else is new.
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Back to Anderson, Vers, I gotta tell you that I saw the Miami game (replayed on NFL Network), and I know everyone will say that we were playing Miami, but I gotta tell you that DA over the ENTIRE game put the ball into all the right places. I have to admit that it's my personal bias that Quinn's ceiling will be higher, but there's not a lot of weight to it. It's just a "gut feeling" I have.  But, you gotta call things as you see 'em and Anderson can throw one hell of a ball as per the Miami game.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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After all, we had Wynn, McCown, Pederson, Pagel, Zeier, and even KJ take snaps at QB for this franchise in it's history and that's just off the top of my head.
Oh geez louise.....Wynn, McCown and Zeier had 19 game appearances between the 3 of them.......Pagel had 7 starts....Pederson had 8 starts......Mike Pagel was the ONLY true QB of any substance that you mentioned-the rest have all kinds of reasons why they were in there at all. Please.
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I have never let my friendship with Charlie affect my ability to evaluate him. He should have been sat down and allowed to develop to see what he could have turned into. i am not short sighted on what holes he had in his game. Unfortunately, Dilfer was a team cancer and Frye's development was ignored and he was thrown into the fire.
Charlie sat for the majority of his drafted season, he was not "thrown into the fire." He got some experience at the end of 2005 and was named the starter for the 2006 season. Even though he clearly didn't have the tools around him, he was again named the starter for the 2007 season where he promptly landed face first in a pile of dung with his performance. This team was his for the taking for many years but he failed and now finds himself behind Seneca Wallace on the depth chart. Seneca Wallace!
You won't find me saying this often but you really need to get off of Ammo's ass.....you are clearly and unequivocally on the wrong side of this argument for the wrong reasons. No one is blasting Frye for the man that he is, they are blasting him for the QB that he isn't. It happens to more than it does to a few.
He's gone.
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kardiac maybe you just on the way back machine with sherman and the dog
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I've only been coaching since 1991 with a .875 win percentage and now coaching in college. That doesn't compare to the experience you had playhing on the OL in high school.
Wow, want a cookie? You sound like a 10 year old.
I heart winning
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But, you gotta call things as you see 'em and Anderson can throw one hell of a ball as per the Miami game.
I'm not blind to DA's deficiencies but:
It was only one play, yet the throw he made to KW2 at the end of the half.... man that was BIG league.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Then again, what do I know, I've only been coaching since 1991 with a .875 win percentage and now coaching in college. That doesn't compare to the experience you had playhing on the OL in high school.
The brag and the slam. 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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I remember that one. Haha, he only did it because Joey Porter was covering him.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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kardiac maybe you just on the way back machine with sherman and the dog
Wasn't the dog named Mr. Peabody? I think the little boy with the big glasses was named Sherman wasn't he?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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That's kinda why I'd rather we discuss cartoon shows... less heated and no calling people out... How upset can you get over Rocky and Bulwinkle
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You won't see me doing this often but I have to agree with shep on this one. Coachb stalks Ammo like I stalk cheesecake. I also have to commend shep on taking this stand because I know he's not what you'd call an Ammo fan. I'm a Charlie Frye fan. But he wasn't a very good QB as a starter. The Charlie Frye and Troy Smith references from Ammo and B are getting real old. Perhaps they should both be retired. And the "I'm a football coach in college and you're not" smack is really lame. What's next? "Mine's bigger than yours"
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Hmmm, never really watched Rocky & Bullwinkle, so I gotta admit I have no clue what you two are talking about.
dawglover: I felt the same after seeing that Miami game again. I even took notes and dissected every pass play like I was in the locker room breaking down film, but there was little room for argument. He was on fire that day. If he plays like that consistently, then I don't have a problem at all with DA being our long-term starter. I may still wonder what we had in Quinn from time to time, but you can hardly gripe with DA putting up performances like that. If DA can work on some of the things that we've brought up this off-season and improve those aspects of his game, then I'll only have two words left to say about Quinn.... "Brady who?"
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Another fine thread, eh?
How is the weather in your area? Still kind of cold here, hope it warms up soon.
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And the "I'm a football coach in college and you're not" smack is really lame. What's next? "Mine's bigger than yours"
I thought it was 'My dad can beat up your dad.'
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Just clicking....
Someone needs to tell "someone"...Frye is not the Browns QB.
Best thing that happened to the Browns...the Seahawks thought Frye was the only QB worth trading for.
Wonder what the Seahawks think about that decision now?..
Now, back to the real thread...Re: Savage on Upping Anderson's Offer . . . Continued thread 2...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,795 |
Quote:
I'm a Charlie Frye fan. But he wasn't a very good QB as a starter. The Charlie Frye and Troy Smith references from Ammo and B are getting real old. Perhaps they should both be retired.
AMEN
#gmstrong
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311 |
This isn't even about Savage Upping DA's offer anymore. We should just have a continual thread that runs through August entitled 'All Things DA'. I can't imagine we'd keep finding things to discuss but once OTAs and June Mini-camp starts, we'll all have a field day. Like starving wolves to the wounded deer.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,871
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,871 |
Quote:
I'm a Charlie Frye fan. But he wasn't a very good QB as a starter. The Charlie Frye and Troy Smith references from Ammo and B are getting real old. Perhaps they should both be retired.
Who should be retired,,, Frye and Smith, or Ammo and B?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,428
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,428 |
Quote:
Quote:
I'm a Charlie Frye fan. But he wasn't a very good QB as a starter. The Charlie Frye and Troy Smith references from Ammo and B are getting real old. Perhaps they should both be retired.
Who should be retired,,, Frye and Smith, or Ammo and B?
This thread should be retired. There is nothing worthwhile being said here anymore.
Frankly, I can't believe that the Refs haven't locked it up for good yet.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Savage on Upping Anderson's Offer
. . . Continued thread 2
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