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Thanks dawg, I appreciate that. I went back and read your post again and I think what stuck out more than what I originally quoted was when you claimed that the article defended the minority view and that a majority of the people on these boards have been claiming this and that about DA. I just thought that was a pretty broad stroke. JMHO. I know there have been differing opinions about a multitude of topics regarding DA, and some people have been more outspoken than others, but I can't believe that a MAJORITY of posters think DA is all of those things. I don't know. I'll stop because I can feel myself getting very picky here. But thanks for backing up your claims and realizing that I was not trying to come at you or anything like that. Way too many people on here take offense when someone questions their post and its really unnecessary.
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Quote:
Basically echoes a lot of what Vers has said. Kudos to him.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2008/04/terrys_talkin_browns_eyeing_co.html
Terry's Talkin: Browns eyeing cornerback in fourth round
by Terry Pluto
Sunday April 20, 2008, 7:55 AM
ABOUT THE BROWNS' QUARTERBACKS . . .
Browns General Manager Phil Savage knew a tough schedule was coming, and that was yet another reason he wanted to keep Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn. He didn't know the first two games would be Dallas and Pittsburgh, but he figured the TV networks would want to have the Browns playing someone tough to pump up ratings early in the season. And the last thing he wanted was to trade Anderson, start Quinn, and see the former Notre Dame star carted off the field in Game 2. Then what?
Savage also is
eager to see what Anderson will do this season. "He is not a finished product, he's had only 18 starts," said the general manager. "Why wouldn't he continue to improve?" Speaking to fans at a benefit for the Boys and Girls Club on Thursday, coach Romeo Crennel called Anderson "the starter" and said Quinn is "the backup." The important thing is both quarterbacks and the starting offense will re turn with coor dinator Rob Chudzinski, so they already know the system. The only newcomers are re ceiver Donte' Stal lworth and backup of fensive lineman Rex Hadnot, although both are expected to press for starting spots.
At the start
of last year's training camp, the Browns almost had two different offenses because quarterbacks Charlie Frye and Anderson are so different. Frye doesn't throw as long as Anderson, but moves better. Anderson is more of a pocket passer. While Quinn does not have the same arm strength as Anderson, the same basic offense works for either QB.
Some fans don't realize
that Anderson is very popular with his offensive teammates, and not just because he is a solid guy who doesn't want a lot of attention. The offensive line appreciates how quickly he gets rid of the ball - his 14 sacks were the fewest of any starting QB. Yes, the line is better. But he also helped by not hanging on to the ball. Kellen Winslow and Braylon Edwards know that they made the Pro Bowl with Anderson throwing them the ball. Running back Jamal Lewis knows that Anderson's ability to throw long helps him because the safeties have to play deeper, giving him more room to run once he gets past the line of scrimmage.
This is not a knock
on Quinn, whom Crennel praised during his speech for leadership and dedication. It's just a fact that players know Anderson helped them produce. They may get the same boost from Quinn, but he has yet to do it. To them, Anderson (despite some weaknesses) is a sure thing.
The Browns believe
Anderson can improve on his short- and mid-range passes. Rather than quickly throw away the ball when the rush comes, they hope he can develop better skills with screens and short passes to the tight end and backs. They are confident he will continue to pressure defenses with his long passing, and that he will keep them out of those second-and-15, third-and-14 situations by refusing to take needless sacks.
They also know
that with Anderson comes interceptions. As Savage said: "In some ways, he's an old-time gunslinger back there. He's 6-6, he can see over the linemen and he lets it fly." At Oregon State, Anderson had 24 TD passes as a junior - and 24 interceptions. As a senior, it was 29 TDs, 17 interceptions. For his career, it was 79 TDs, 57 interceptions. They want him to cut down, but they also want him to still be aggressive. Anderson had 29 TDs and 19 interceptions for the Browns last year.
They also must
be smart. When playing in the cold and wind that is shaking Paul Brown Stadium in Cincinnati, how about running the ball more? This does not excuse Anderson for the four interceptions in that critical loss to the Bengals, but that also wasn't Rob Chudzinski's greatest game plan.
Pro Football Outsider's
Sean McCormick took a look back at the 2002 draft, where David Carr and Joey Harrington were rated the highest quarterbacks. Both went to bad teams, got beat up and - much like Tim Couch - who knows what (if anything) they could have done in different situations. The best QB in that draft was David Garrard, the 108th pick out of East Carolina. That year, the Browns took William Green at No. 16, the highest running back picked. They passed up on Clinton Portis and Brian Westbrook. Ouch!
While Quinn is
no doubt frustrated by not getting a chance to start with the Browns, he's probably better off here than going to an awful team and playing right away - as Couch (Browns), Carr (Houston) and Harrington (Detroit) did. When Quinn's chance does come here, he will have a strong offensive line, excellent receivers and a bullish runner in Jamal Lewis. That gives him a chance to avoid quarterback shellshock.
This article is a great example of just how much the Browns franchise has progressed in the last 3 yrs.
All of the issues discussed in this article have already been discussed by Browns fans long before now. Much of what Savage said in the article has already been said by Browns fans.
Browns football is not "rocket science" any longer. We are not getting "off the wall"..." dumb as a box of rocks" decisions coming from the front office like we did in our first 6 years back.
Now I'm not about to claim we Browns fans are all that either...I still remember some of you calling for Crennel and Savages scalp after one season....'sigh'.
If the Browns go 7-9 this season, many will be calling for their scalps once again. Some things never do change when it comes to the Browns.
The one thing that has changed...the Browns GM is becoming one of the best in the NFL.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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j/c:
No offense to anyone, but I think a lot of posters have said a lot of the stuff that Pluto and PDawg were talking about. God knows, I have been in enough debates w/them.
My contention from the beginning has been this:
Keeping both QBs is the right thing to do.
DA earned more playing time.
Trust that the Brown's braintrust...........Savage, RAC, Chud, and Rip know what they are doing. Instead of ignoring every good thing DA does and hammering every bad thing he does...........just sit back and allow it to play out. It's okay to question and debate, but man.............some people have gone way overboard. I think those people will only hinder the Brown's progress.
I think DA should be the starter, but if the Browns decide to start BQ, then I will question their wisdom, but I am not going to go off the handle like many people have in regards to DA.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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So its ok to trust Phil and the braintrust....as long as they pick DA? Your tellin me I should trust Phil if he makes they selection you would like.
I love Phil Savage, the guy knows talent, how to build a team. He's not perfect, in Baltimore and in Cleveland he has yet to hit on a QB.
DA could be that first guy, but Phil has zero ground to stand as far the QB's go...last year again however you stack it, he and the braintrsut made the wrong choice. However you stack it, they wasted a pick on Frye. He was a major factor in the Ravens taking Boller.
Quinn could be a miss too, book is also out on DA, im certainly not gonna jump up and down because Phil's talking him up....Phil could be right and I hope he is.
I really don't care who's pimping DA or Quinn... I wanna see one the two win games, not fold under pressure, not give games away...I dont wanna see another QB who always has holes to fill and everyone thinks "next year" he'll get it. I dont want another high expectation QB thats fails and takes the franchise with him.
This whole discussion is nuts, decide it, prove it, win it on the field......no fan is gonna argue with it, no GM is gonna have to talk it up.
I want a QB that is good enough, we won't have threads like this one for a decade.
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Quote:
DA could be that first guy, but Phil has zero ground to stand as far the QB's go...last year again however you stack it, he and the braintrsut made the wrong choice. However you stack it, they wasted a pick on Frye.
After watching the preseason last year, who would you have picked to be the starter? Frye outplayed Anderson in the preseason. This is a fact. NOBODY knew that Anderson would put up the numbers that he did or lead the team to ten wins. NOBODY.
Quote:
He was a major factor in the Ravens taking Boller.
Okay, now you're just making things up. Where does it say anywhere that he was a major factor in the Ravens taking Boller? Everyone knows that Boller was Billick's pick.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Quote:
Quote:
I meant to write "These things stand out to me."
And they're also things that some people have been saying all along ...... despite some others having a "gut feeling" to the contrary ......
Funny thing about "articles".
If they say what you want them to, they're gospel. And if they don't?
The writer is a hack.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Minor correction... the writer is *always* a hack.... it's just that they are a stupid hack if they have the opposite viewpoint  
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Okay, now you're just making things up. Where does it say anywhere that he was a major factor in the Ravens taking Boller? Everyone knows that Boller was Billick's pick.
dawglover: Just a suggestion... before you go accusing people of making things up, you may want to refrain from adding speculative comments of your own without providing proof. I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm just saying what it looks like from the outside.
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Quote:
After watching the preseason last year, who would you have picked to be the starter? Frye outplayed Anderson in the preseason. This is a fact. NOBODY knew that Anderson would put up the numbers that he did or lead the team to ten wins. NOBODY.
No, I probably pick Frye too, of course I didn't watch them everyday or get paid millions to make the deicision. Yes there are circumstances that led to it but the wrong decision was made.
Quote:
Okay, now you're just making things up. Where does it say anywhere that he was a major factor in the Ravens taking Boller? Everyone knows that Boller was Billick's pick.
Billick? It was Ozzie and Phils pick.....i'm in no way bashing Phil, everyone makes mistakes.
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Not necessarily true. I remember watching that draft and them discussing how Ozzie like Suggs and Billick liked Boller. It ended up with them both being happy because they selected Suggs and Boller, but the analysts were saying how Billick was pushing for Kyle Boller.
Also this wasn't long after the Ravens won the superbowl, so Billick's opinion definitely carried a lot of weight during this time.
So yeah, I'm putting Boller on Billick
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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I will 2nd that as I too recall there being LOTS of people/articles that have attributed the Boller pick to Billick pushing for him.
Yes, Ozzie ultimately pulled the trigger as that is how things are structured, but I recall there being a lot of talk about it being at Billick's request.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Quote:
Okay, now you're just making things up. Where does it say anywhere that he was a major factor in the Ravens taking Boller? Everyone knows that Boller was Billick's pick.
dawglover: Just a suggestion... before you go accusing people of making things up, you may want to refrain from adding speculative comments of your own without providing proof. I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm just saying what it looks like from the outside.
It's a well-known fact that Boller was Billick's decision, not Ozzie's.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Okay, now you're just making things up. Where does it say anywhere that he was a major factor in the Ravens taking Boller? Everyone knows that Boller was Billick's pick.
dawglover: Just a suggestion... before you go accusing people of making things up, you may want to refrain from adding speculative comments of your own without providing proof. I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm just saying what it looks like from the outside.
It's a well-known fact that Boller was Billick's decision, not Ozzie's.
I'll second that...I remember that day plain as day.
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Quote:
Quote:
Okay, now you're just making things up. Where does it say anywhere that he was a major factor in the Ravens taking Boller? Everyone knows that Boller was Billick's pick.
dawglover: Just a suggestion... before you go accusing people of making things up, you may want to refrain from adding speculative comments of your own without providing proof. I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm just saying what it looks like from the outside.
Kardiac: I always read your posts and respect everything that you have to say. You seem like a really good guy. I still disagree with you in the fact and claim that it is widely known that Boller was Billick's pick. My impression is that Z was bringing up false things to bolster his point so I wanted to retort with something I believed was common knowledge to rebut it.
I will try to be mindful to providing proof in the future. 
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Quote:
So its ok to trust Phil and the braintrust....as long as they pick DA? Your tellin me I should trust Phil if he makes they selection you would like.
Can you read?
I said this:
I think DA should be the starter, but if the Browns decide to start BQ, then I will question their wisdom, but I am not going to go off the handle like many people have in regards to DA.
Pit:
Quote:
Funny thing about "articles".
If they say what you want them to, they're gospel. And if they don't?
The writer is a hack.
That's classic coming from you. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
I think DA should be the starter, but if the Browns decide to start BQ, then I will question their wisdom, but I am not going to go off the handle like many people have in regards to DA.
Ain't it nice to be the ONLY team in the NFL with this problem...lol...
Again I say...The BEST thing for this team is to have Anderson improve in a capacity that allows us to tear this contract up and sign him to a 6 or 7 year deal...THAT is what's best for this team...U have a 2 year starter that has PROVEN himself...And we know where we are going into 2009 and beyond...
At the same time we have a former 1st round pick available in trade...And THAT will garnish AT LEAST a 2nd round pick...It doesn't matter that Quinn will have limited playing time...His talent alone will garner a 2nd and possibly a 1st rounder...
On the flip side...And we might find out real quick-like...As in Dallas and Pittsburgh in weeks 1-2...Both are at home (God I pray Anderson has a HUGE pair cause he's gonna need em' if he even throws one crap ass pass)...If we lose both games and he stinks up the joint we may just see Quinn come game 3...
Now we have a crap ass situation...We've gone to Quinn and virtually pulled the plug on the experiment in Anderson...Anderson will NO LONGER even be associated with a 1st or 2nd round pick in a trade...You're DREAMING PEEN if u think any team will cough up a 1st day pick for a QB that teams already had reservations about...Then we bench his ass...Ain't gonna happen...His value goes DOWN...WAY down...
I fail to see what's so damn hard to see about what's BEST for this team...We NEED Anderson to do what we need him to do...We then get rid of Quinn for a 1st day pick...If Anderson fails...We go with an UNPROVEN commodity and get virtually ZILCH for a QB that the league will see right thru...
Go Browns!!!
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dawglover: I appreciate your respect and attention, but I wasn't saying you were wrong about Billick wanting Boller. I just wanted to comment on the whole "making stuff up" thing that you accused someone else of, because had there not been adequate support from fellow posters to back you up, someone such as myself who was unaware of the situation could have easily accused you of doing the same. But I did not. Notice in my post I said "I'm not saying that you're wrong." A number of people have backed up your claim. Good enough for me man.
I just don't like how (and this doesn't have anything to do with you) sometimes it seems like certain people get away with more than others on here. Like I could post something I heard and people would call me out because I'm not backing it up with anything, but then there are those who claim to have "sources" or "inside information" and people just accept it as fact without questioning how valid it may really be. So don't look at me as the board nazi going aorund and correcting everything everyone says. I just wish there wasn't a double-standard at times. Again, not related to you at all. Just a general observation.
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Quote:
On the flip side...And we might find out real quick-like...As in Dallas and Pittsburgh in weeks 1-2...Both are at home (God I pray Anderson has a HUGE pair cause he's gonna need em' if he even throws one crap ass pass)...If we lose both games and he stinks up the joint we may just see Quinn come game 3...
Even if Anderson stinks up the joint the first two weeks, the ONLY way we make a change for Week 3 is if Quinn shows the staff this offseason and in preseason that he can be just as good as Anderson. The coaching staff really needs their minds put at ease about that. I'm sure they love his smarts and leadership ability, but does he have the rest to get the job done? Quinn is going to be auditioning like never before all the way up to Week1.
That's the only way Quinn gets in that early, IMO. Pulling Anderson so soon would be a definite panic move no matter how bad he plays. The only way the Browns would make such a move is if they have a certain knowledge that Quinn may actually be the better QB anyway. And that is only going to come from whay they see in practice and the preseason games.
I'm guessing if Anderson is stinking it up, he'll get close to 5 or 6 games before a change is made, especially if the record is in the tank.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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If we start off 1-3, Quinn gets the nod after the bye week. Of course, we'd need good reason to show that Anderson is the reason we're off to a poor start and not our defense.
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Quote:
So don't look at me as the board nazi going aorund and correcting everything everyone says.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Thanx for the links..i stand corrected, never bought in to the whole Boller/Billick thing but I do now.
Intresting on these articles, just cuz Pluto, Grossi, Shaw or Brown say it...does that mean you can take it to the bank? It's kinda like a cafeteria deal, pick and chose which ones you like and trash the ones that you don't!?
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I don't think he's gonna stink up the joint in the first two games. But if he did I don't see how they could keep Quinn out. Phil's made it pretty clear he's aiming for the playoffs this year. Plus, it's not like they don't have a track record for yanking a QB so fast it'll make your head spin. (Ask Charlie).
No, if he embarasses himself against Dallas, or especially Pittsburgh, they won't wait to act, IMO.
Note to DA pimps: Don't bother firing up your keyboards. I'm not saying this WILL happen. I'm saying it could happen if DA were to fail.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Quote:
I don't think he's gonna stink up the joint in the first two games. But if he did I don't see how they could keep Quinn out. Phil's made it pretty clear he's aiming for the playoffs this year. Plus, it's not like they don't have a track record for yanking a QB so fast it'll make your head spin. (Ask Charlie).
No, if he embarasses himself against Dallas, or especially Pittsburgh, they won't wait to act, IMO.
Note to DA pimps: Don't bother firing up your keyboards. I'm not saying this WILL happen. I'm saying it could happen if DA were to fail.
I agree...Game 3 might be early but definitely after the bye week...
And I'm not talking about Anderson pulling a Frye of last year...I'm talking about after looking at game film...If he's still throwing into coverages he has no business tossing into...If he's still leaving wide open receivers because he just isn't seeing the entire field...
It's not gonna be about Sacks...This OL will pick up right where it left off...
Anderson's had an entire year of starting experience...An entire off season of knowing he's #1...He'll have an entire training camp and pre season as that #1...NO MORE DAMN EXCUSES...
Either he produces QUICKLY outta the gate or we HAVE to make the move to the QB we drafted with the FUTURE IN MIND...
Go Browns!!!
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Gotta agree with this.
It may prove beneficial to have an early bye week this year because of the QB situation.
Like I said earlier, if we're 1-3 going into the bye week and Anderson is playing poorly (even 2-2, if DA's the one holding us back we may see the switch, but that may be pushing it), we're making the switch.
We're built to win this year and can't dilly dally around. Of course, the worst case scenario would be if Quinn stinks it up too.
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Quote:
My contention from the beginning has been this:
Keeping both QBs is the right thing to do.
DA earned more playing time.
Trust that the Brown's braintrust...........Savage, RAC, Chud, and Rip know what they are doing.
Vers...If Savage would trade DA or BQ to get back in the first round, would you feel the same as your above statements?
I would still trust in Savage and the "braintrust".....
They may not make a "popular" move, but they will focus on doing what is "best" for the team.
I'm not saying we are trading anyone...in fact, Savage has me convinced he is not looking to make any trades to get back in the first round. But that is part of being a good GM...being unpredictable.
If the "braintrust" would do the "unexpected" (surprising a majority of fans and media), I would continue to support them knowing they are only trying to improve the team.
I wonder how many would feel the same?
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I'm going to throw this one out there...
Before just last night, no teams had "attractive" 2 first rounders, Dallas's low rounders aren't necessarily very tempting in the grand scheme.
Now the Chiefs have the #5 and #17. What if they offered us those for DA? Especially if Chris Long is there when they pick? (Chris Long may be Jared Allen's replacement, if they don't trade for a QB).
The DL could be more solidified than it already is...and then you get that #17 pick to play with...corner? safety? ILB? OLB? Arguably the defense improves enormously in one year. VERY tempting proposition...
I'm in the "keep both QB's for this year" camp, but things suddenly got more interesting.
Last edited by Ammo; 04/23/08 09:30 AM.
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Now the Chiefs have the #5 and #17. What if they offered us those for DA?
Dude...R u insane??????????????????????
Of course we'd do it...But it won't happen...
Go Browns!!!
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Now the Chiefs have the #5 and #17. What if they offered us those for DA?
Than the NFL need to forget about Pacman & Chris Henry and take the entire KC Chiefs front Office and have them all tested for Drugs
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LOL!! Nice dude! That's exactly what people probably think I look like.
"No soup for you!!"
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
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No, if he embarasses himself against Dallas, or especially Pittsburgh, they won't wait to act, IMO.
If he stinks up the joint, it better be game 1, because it BEST not be against Pittsburgh. I'm getting tired of losing to them. If he looks awful game 1, he's setting us up for some major problems.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,807
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,807 |
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Quote:
Pit:
Funny thing about "articles".
If they say what you want them to, they're gospel. And if they don't?
The writer is a hack.
That's classic coming from you.
Pretty much the same thing that comes from all of us. Accept of course those who feel their far too superior for that. Then heck, they know it all. Just ask them.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
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Accept of course those who feel their far too superior for that. Then heck, they know it all. Just ask them.
There was absolutely no reason to bring me into this.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177
Dawg Talker
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OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177 |
Thats would be sweet Ammo, but of course no NFL team could honestly invest two 1st round picks on a QB with as much "up in the air" as DA has.
Yeah Phil would pounce all over that, he himself is quoted as saying Chris Long is this years Joe Thomas, a can't miss guy. Not gonna happen, we could get a low first and thrid for him and that is all.
But its nice to fantasize on having two first's....take Long.....trade the #17th for a first next year...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Amazing how some of you always have the gift of turning things around. It's being reported that Savage and RAC are saying that DA is the starter. His teammates believe in him. The guy has upside. ETc, etc. And what do you all get out of it? Trade DA.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
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Amazing how some of you always have the gift of turning things around. It's being reported that Savage and RAC are saying that DA is the starter. His teammates believe in him. The guy has upside. ETc, etc.
And what do you all get out of it? Trade DA.
What if we were offered #5 and #17 from KC?
That's the only, and I mean only way I trade him.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177
Dawg Talker
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OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177 |
For two firsts...one top 5? When you have a talented QB sitting behind him that was a first round graded QB? When you have awesome players everywhere on offense?
Yes you make that trade...bottom line he's not proven enough to warrant that from a team so don't worry about it.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
I think many fans see these flashy college players and want them to play on their own team so badly that they create scenarios which will give their team the opportunity to draft them. Here's an idea: Think of how many picks we could get if we traded both our quarterbacks.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
I wonder how many picks we could get for Savage  
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Savage on Upping Anderson's Offer
. . . Continued thread 2
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