|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826
Legend
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826 |
Why is Carter going to Syria? And why is he going to meet with hamas? Does he think it will improve the situation? If so, he's so sadly mistaken. All he will be doing is legitimalizing hamas, in their minds. This guy holds no sway over current or past events. He is a has been - he was a poor president, and by his actions since he was president I would say he has been a poor EX president. Jimmy, your good works consist of Habitat for Humanity - not talking with hamas. Give it up my good man. You will not be able to change hamas' mind on anything, yet by talking to them it will appear to legitimalize them. Am I crazy? http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080413/pl_nm/palestinians_hamas_carter_dc
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458 |
Despite hamas distinction as a terrorist group---most Palestinians see them as the group that most represents their interests. I used to room with a Palestinian, and he was a Hamas supporter. He disputed the idea that they were a terrorist group---he basically said that Hamas has good intentions, unfortunately their are some rogue factions of the group that approve of violence.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826 |
Thank you - I'm glad to hear that. You give me hope that perhaps hamas isn't all about killing.
But still...........that does seem to be what they do, does it not?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349 |
Quote:
Thank you - I'm glad to hear that. You give me hope that perhaps hamas isn't all about killing.
But still...........that does seem to be what they do, does it not?
I think it is a matter of perspective. We may think of them as terrorists but Palestinians may view them as lieberators or freedom fighters.
Try to look at it from their perspective. Do you remember the movie Red Dawn? Would you have called those kids terrorists? I bet the occupying Ruskies did though. I would think that Palestinians view Hamas a lot like we would have viewed the rebels in Red Dawn.
I have no problem with Hamas for fightng for what they feel is a unjust occupation of their land by the Jews, my problem with Hamas is their feelings of being at war with Americans due to the US goverment supporting and aiding Israel.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831 |
Quote:
And by his actions since he was president I would say he has been a poor EX president.
Post presidency:
Established the Carter Center which is one of the world's leading organizations against human rights abuses.
Eliminated 99.5% of cases of Guinea worm disease.
Won the Nobel Peace Prize.
Written 23 books, some of which are best sellers.
While Habitat for Humanity is one of his most known contributions he has done a lot of work to make this world a better place so I respectfully disagree with your statement that he's a horrible ex-president.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831 |
And as per the thread topic, at least he's trying something. The best way to defeat your enemy is to know him and most people here can't point out Israel on a map much less explain the reasoning behind Hamas and the whole war over there.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 176
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 176 |
Quote:
I think it is a matter of perspective. We may think of them as terrorists but Palestinians may view them as lieberators or freedom fighters.
Try to look at it from their perspective. Do you remember the movie Red Dawn? Would you have called those kids terrorists? I bet the occupying Ruskies did though. I would think that Palestinians view Hamas a lot like we would have viewed the rebels in Red Dawn...
KING
Weird... my DVD of Red Dawn must not have all the deleted scenes... I can't seem to find the ones where the "Wolverines" targeted civilians and public places...
Not that I'm saying Israel is 100 % innocent, but the Guerrilla tactics and sabotage used by the kids in Red Dawn are not the same as what one would normally consider "terrorist tactics," regardless of your point of perspective.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
The only thing that I don't like about it is that the Bush administration opposes the visit. I'm sorry and I don't really care what anybody thinks of George Bush but as a former President himself, he should know that you don't go meeting foreign dignitaries (especially extemely controversial ones) against the wishes of the sitting President. It's poor protocol. I understand the Stanford womens basketball team wearing flip flops to the Whitehouse because they don't understand... but as a former President, Carter should understand.
And I think Carter was an awful President but has greatly improved my perception of him since he left office.. a fine man, an awful President.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728 |
Just thought I'd post this due to your comment. It's addicting. My wife found it a few months ago: http://www.travelpod.com/traveler-iq/game1Enjoy!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826 |
Yup. At least he's trying something.
Keep in mind he's an 83 yr. old ex president. The only thing he's trying to do is keep himself relevant. And he's disgracing himself doing so.
He should stick to habitat for humainty. Face it, he writes books (well, like everyone else, he doesn't write them, he spends a few hours a week with a writer)
Further more, I've probably pounded more nails than he has. Granted, he's a figure head for raising money for habitat for humanity. That's it.
His figure head status doesn't cut it when dealing with hamas, unless giving hamas a bit of status is a good thing as far as you are concerned.
Carter needs to step back and realize he is doing more harm than good with this escapade. He has no ability whatsoever to change the U.S. or Israel........all he's doing is legitimalizing hamas. And, despite what tyler said, hamas is still a terrorist organization.
Let's say that we appease hamas tomorrow - we do everything they want. Know what? The next day they will demand more and if it's not given to them they will bomb and kill.
Screw hamas, and Jimmy - go back to peanuts and raising money for habitat, cause that's all you're good for.
Sorry you disagree, and I'm sorry you're wrong.
Carter talking to hamas would be like me talking to the neighbor you have a problem with........doesn't do crap. Only difference is, Carter gets his name in the paper.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283 |
Quote:
Am I crazy?
I'd say so, but that's just me!  
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458 |
Dialogue is necessary to solve problems.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826 |
I agree. However, what we have here is a former president that holds no power whatsoever talking to a group that wants to kill. What can they possibly talk about?
What's Jimmy going to say/do? "yeah, we'll allow you to kill off Israel, and we'll also pull our troops out of Iraq, Afghanistan, all of Europe, and where ever else they are, PLUS we'll send the palestinians more money than we currently do.
Then Jimmy comes back here and finds out he can't do that.
And on top of that, even if Pres. Carter COULD do that, it still wouldn't change a thing. The day after anything got changed hamas would change their minds.
President Carter should be enjoying his taxpayer funded retirement, not going around stirring the dust.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826 |
Quote:
Quote:
Am I crazy?
I'd say so, but that's just me!
I would expect nothing less from you.  At least you haven't turned this into an "angry black man" thread yet. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Am I crazy?
I'd say so, but that's just me!
I would expect nothing less from you. At least you haven't turned this into an "angry black man" thread yet.
But you just did. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Carter talking to hamas would be like me talking to the neighbor you have a problem with........doesn't do crap.
Quote:
Let's say that we appease hamas tomorrow - we do everything they want. Know what? The next day they will demand more and if it's not given to them they will bomb and kill.
Quote:
But still...........that does seem to be what they do, does it not?
Quote:
And why is he going to meet with hamas? Does he think it will improve the situation? If so, he's so sadly mistaken.
You will not be able to change hamas' mind on anything, yet by talking to them it will appear to legitimalize them.
The overarching (no pun intended) theme here is the notion that we are dealing with a group of thuggish, murdering brutes who use violence and murder to reach points and objectives, and are beyond reason and logic.
The thing that struck me while reading this is that you could talk to a number of members of Hamas or several other groups or many Middle Eastern civilians, and you will hear these exact same sentiments echoed against the United States -- that we are a maniacal brute force that is past the point of reason.
We are very quick to say that violence is the only way to reach these people, as they are beyond decency and logic. They are very quick to say the same thing. It's a propoganda tool on either side of the coin. I'm sure you will say that we don't target innocent civilians or public areas, and you and I could certainly debate that issue, but I can assure you that many in the area do not see the United States military as one conscious of or sensitive to the value of human life.
They themselves are at odds with Israel -- a brutal and vicious nation who to them seem beyond the bounds of human decency. And if you listen close you will hear these same sentiments in speeches, literature, recruitment propoganda -- "there's no talking to these Americans or Israel. All they know and all they are about is violence and killing."
What I find myself most at odds with is your vehemenent assertions at Carter's buffoonery, incompetence and general failure...I wouldn't even be so inclined as to disagree with them...but yet you're the same person who has defended our current president fairly often, a man who is the pinnacle of buffoonery, incompetence and failure in the modern White House. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826 |
Quote:
What I find myself most at odds with is your vehemenent assertions at Carter's buffoonery, incompetence and general failure...I wouldn't even be so inclined as to disagree with them...but yet you're the same person who has defended our current president fairly often, a man who is the pinnacle of buffoonery, incompetence and failure in the modern White House.
I'm not so sure I have accused Pres. Carter of buffoonery or imcompetence while he was in office, but let's face it, his greatest accomplishments have everything to do with habitat for humanity - and nothing to do with his time in office. Now, you seem to be quick to judge Bush 2. Perhaps we should give him 20 years or so as Pres. Carter has had?
My defense of Pres. Bush has not been "vehement", as you stated.
However, and take this as you may, my defense of this COUNTRY, is undeniable.
Some people seem to think that if we only allow others to have their way that there will be peace..........suddenly, everyone will be happy and appeased. I personally don't see that happening. Perhaps you do.
We could blow Israel off the map (of course, we'd have to do it in such a way that no one gets hurt to appease some people), and yet then we'd still have the problems in the middle east, wouldn't we?
I'm sure there is some middle point between what you and I feel, but it seems to me you are a "give in, give in, give in" kind of person, regarding the middle east, where as I am a "they haven't been able to satisfy themselves since the beginning of man, so why would they now" sort of person.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458 |
Quote:
What's Jimmy going to say/do? "yeah, we'll allow you to kill off Israel, and we'll also pull our troops out of Iraq, Afghanistan, all of Europe, and where ever else they are, PLUS we'll send the palestinians more money than we currently do.
I think that this is an absurd assumption. I think the idea is to enter ourselves into an intelligent dialogue with a group which represents the majority of the Palestinian people. A dialogue which will begin to establish a list of grievances that both sides can resolve through some kind of compromise. A compromise that both sides could be happy with.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Am I crazy?
I'd say so, but that's just me!
I would expect nothing less from you. At least you haven't turned this into an "angry black man" thread yet.
But you just did.
Nah, I cut him off at the pass, so to speak I got to it before he could. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
I'm sure there is some middle point between what you and I feel, but it seems to me you are a "give in, give in, give in" kind of person, regarding the middle east, where as I am a "they haven't been able to satisfy themselves since the beginning of man, so why would they now" sort of person.
Personally, I'm a "get out, get out, get out" kind of person. I don't think we have any business in the affairs of the Middle East. I think if we weren't involved in their lives they wouldn't be in ours.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,276
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,276 |
He also had the highest IQ of any President.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458 |
Quote:
Quote:
I'm sure there is some middle point between what you and I feel, but it seems to me you are a "give in, give in, give in" kind of person, regarding the middle east, where as I am a "they haven't been able to satisfy themselves since the beginning of man, so why would they now" sort of person.
Personally, I'm a "get out, get out, get out" kind of person. I don't think we have any business in the affairs of the Middle East. I think if we weren't involved in their lives they wouldn't be in ours.
But, we pretty much have to be involved in the middle easst due to our reliance on their natural resources.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349 |
Quote:
[
Weird... my DVD of Red Dawn must not have all the deleted scenes... I can't seem to find the ones where the "Wolverines" targeted civilians and public places...
Not that I'm saying Israel is 100 % innocent, but the Guerrilla tactics and sabotage used by the kids in Red Dawn are not the same as what one would normally consider "terrorist tactics," regardless of your point of perspective.
Ok you are taking my analogy a bit to literally. The Red Dawn used Guerilla tactics to fight the occupiers of their country. The occupiers who are continually squeezing more and more out of them by expanding their borders and basically trying to make life unlivable for the Palestinians.
Put it this way, imagine if the Russians had invaded us just like they did in Red Dawn and said " Hey we are going to take a large portions of the U.S. and make it our own, but here is the deal. We are going to split the whole US and we are going to own everything from say Ohio to Oklahoma, from the farthest point south to the Canadien border in the North.The U.S. will exist on either side of use, no passing through, we are going to build big walls to make sure you dont." Do you think the American population(and I dont mean government) would stand for it? Do you think there would be some militias of citizens formed that would use guerilla tactics to attack that Russian Territory? Do you think there would be innocents that got caught up in that? Thats what I meant by perspective.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,803
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,803 |
Quote:
He also had the highest IQ of any President.
Which doesn't mean squat. He tried to micro-manage everything, and it blew up in his face. He is a great example of what a christian should be. I used to have great respect for him.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,803
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,803 |
Quote:
Quote:
And by his actions since he was president I would say he has been a poor EX president.
Post presidency:
Established the Carter Center which is one of the world's leading organizations against human rights abuses.
Eliminated 99.5% of cases of Guinea worm disease.
Won the Nobel Peace Prize.
Written 23 books, some of which are best sellers.
While Habitat for Humanity is one of his most known contributions he has done a lot of work to make this world a better place so I respectfully disagree with your statement that he's a horrible ex-president.
It is undeniable that he has been a great humanitarian. I'm not sure what writing books has to do with anything.
Just because he is a great humanitarian doesn't make him a great (or even good) ex. He has constantly done what no other former presidents have done. He constantly speaks against administrations that have come after him on topics of world affairs. It is one thing to have disagreements, but he has gone much further to actually try and undermind administrations. Going and talking to Hamas is another example of many. He has no business talking to them if it is against the wishes of the sitting president.
As Americans we are free to do what we want, but as a former president the rules are different and he chooses to ignore that.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,267
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,267 |
Quote:
He also had the highest IQ of any President.
Isn't that a bit like being the tallest midget in the room?  
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,803
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,803 |
Quote:
I think it is a matter of perspective. We may think of them as terrorists but Palestinians may view them as lieberators or freedom fighters.
They can think whatever they want, but in this day and age "Freedom Fighters" is not a term I would use for people who deliberately attack innocent civilians. I'm not talking about the settlers either. I can understand them attacking military targets. I could even see their reasons for attacking the armed settlements. Their stradegy for quite sometime is to attack civilian populations within Israel. That makes them terrorists in my book.
One last thing...I know the Israelies did some similar things nearly a half of a century ago. That doesn't make it right to do now.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm sure there is some middle point between what you and I feel, but it seems to me you are a "give in, give in, give in" kind of person, regarding the middle east, where as I am a "they haven't been able to satisfy themselves since the beginning of man, so why would they now" sort of person.
Personally, I'm a "get out, get out, get out" kind of person. I don't think we have any business in the affairs of the Middle East. I think if we weren't involved in their lives they wouldn't be in ours.
But, we pretty much have to be involved in the middle easst due to our reliance on their natural resources.
We don't have to be in the Middle East as much as we don't have to rely on oil to live our lives.
Manufactured need, Tyler. I'm sure you have an understanding of what I'm talking about. The point is, our lives would be better and their lives would be better if none of us were involved in each other's lives. The only ones who benefit from these affairs are American corporate interests and wealthy Middle Eastern dictators.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 176
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 176 |
Quote:
Ok you are taking my analogy a bit to literally. The Red Dawn used Guerilla tactics to fight the occupiers of their country. The occupiers who are continually squeezing more and more out of them by expanding their borders and basically trying to make life unlivable for the Palestinians.
Put it this way, imagine if the Russians had invaded us just like they did in Red Dawn and said " Hey we are going to take a large portions of the U.S. and make it our own, but here is the deal. We are going to split the whole US and we are going to own everything from say Ohio to Oklahoma, from the farthest point south to the Canadien border in the North.The U.S. will exist on either side of use, no passing through, we are going to build big walls to make sure you dont." Do you think the American population(and I dont mean government) would stand for it? Do you think there would be some militias of citizens formed that would use guerilla tactics to attack that Russian Territory? Do you think there would be innocents that got caught up in that? Thats what I meant by perspective.
KING
Fist off, as far as how I took your analogy... I responded to it fairly literally on purpose. If you use analogies too loosely like that, you can use them to justify just about anything. You're asking someone to use their emotions to come to a conclusion that was based on false pretenses in the first place.
Which brings us to the 2nd part.. While there was obviously opposition, it's not as if Israel came in, on it's own, and took the area with force. (Which is pretty much what you're saying Russia would be doing in this hypothetical situation) Also, the wall is much more a recent result of the bombings and not a CAUSE. And while there are problems, Palestinians DO pass through.
A more accurate (but still not quite right) analogy, as far as trying to make it seem a little closer to home, would be to say:
"What if the US and United Nations decided to let Israelis move into part of Puerto Rico, and then the Israelis and Puerto Ricans at some point each became independent of the US? How would you feel as a Puerto Rican?"
That would at least be a similar jumping off point. We gained Puerto Rico by force.. and it is still under US control. I'm sure plenty of Puerto Ricans would be upset if we gave some of the land we control to people from another country. It's still a bad analogy to a degree, because it lacks the historic religious tension that is present in the Middle East, but so did your analogy. At least mine is similar to what happened historically.
Regardless, there IS still a difference between Guerrilla tactics, situations where innocents get caught in the middle, and the specific targeting of markets, busses, schools, and synagogues with crude explosive devices.
Do I think it would happen here too if we were occupied? I'm sure it COULD. To think that it couldn't happen would be silly. But to think that it would be justified or the right thing to do is just plain WRONG. I'm sure I may react differently than I SHOULD if I'm ever put in the same situation. But that doesn't make my reaction right!
From my perspective, in your hypothetical situation:
Guerrilla Tactics (e.g., Ambushing Military Convoys or outposts) = Totally Justifiable
Innocent civilians being caught up in casualties (e.g., a civilian office building that was blown up when a bomb went off course, or civilians killed when a factory that was related to Russian military or governmental stability)= Unfortunate but arguably justifiable.
Terrorist tactics (e.g., targeting markets, schools, civilian buses with bombs with the intent to kill civilians) = Inarguably Unjustifiable.
Perspective is very important. If you touch your nose to a painting, you're not getting the whole picture. But if you take too many steps back, the picture gets fuzzy. The line between right and wrong could get blurred.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,102
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,102 |
I guess Jimmy must make a lot of money writing those books. Seems to me his access to people and writing are an honest way of cashing in on being an ex-President.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
He also had the highest IQ of any President.
And the guy who graduated first in my high school class now delivers medicine for the local pharmacy where I grew up... big deal.
I have no problem with maintaining dialogue because I think that is the only way we are going to be able to separate the thugs from the decent folks...
I have no problem with sending a former President as part of maintaining that dialogue...
What I have a problem with is going against the wishes of the sitting President. Of course everybody in government these days seems far more adament about grandstanding and making a name for THEMSELVES rather than achieving a common goal. And before anybody jumps to any grand conclusions, the republicans and this administration are no better.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 364
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 364 |
Hey Brad...watch that dvd again....you'll see the "wolverines" blow up a cafe,bar,hospitality center that likely had civillian employees....plus Red Dawn was a jingoistic fairy tale..it wasn't reality.
As far as Carter speaking to this organization...well he is a private citizen...I think he can speak to who he wants.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Am I crazy?
I'd say so, but that's just me!
I would expect nothing less from you. At least you haven't turned this into an "angry black man" thread yet.
No need, I prefer you keep this as an "angry white guy" thread!
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349 |
Ok I was just trying to use a example about how sides may have a different view of a military opposition group. I wasnt trying to match up details of the Wolverines from Red Dawn with Hamas. Put in a similar situation I would be willing to bet many Americans would support attacks on a occupying territory.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405 |
j/c
Is this the same Jimmy Carter who tried to legitimize Chavez's stolen election in Venezuela a few years ago? The same guy who tried to appease Iranian hostage takers and sat on his duff while our guys spent 444 days captive?
"My signature line goes here."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
Quote:
j/c
Is this the same Jimmy Carter who tried to legitimize Chavez's stolen election in Venezuela a few years ago? The same guy who tried to appease Iranian hostage takers and sat on his duff while our guys spent 444 days captive?
No this is that other Jimmy Carter.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 176
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 176 |
Quote:
Hey Brad...watch that dvd again....you'll see the "wolverines" blow up a cafe,bar,hospitality center that likely had civillian employees....plus Red Dawn was a jingoistic fairy tale..it wasn't reality.
As far as Carter speaking to this organization...well he is a private citizen...I think he can speak to who he wants.
First off, I mentioned in my last post that civilian employee deaths are arguably justifiable. Second, it's not like the Russians had really settled the area by then. Pretty much every Russian/Cuban/Nicaraguan there was related to the military efforts. Third, I'm not the one who brought up the movie in the first place. I SAID it was a poor analogy. You don't need to tell me that...
Quote:
Ok I was just trying to use a example about how sides may have a different view of a military opposition group. I wasnt trying to match up details of the Wolverines from Red Dawn with Hamas. Put in a similar situation I would be willing to bet many Americans would support attacks on a occupying territory.
Many might... I might TOO! But we would be wrong to support and defend terrorist tactics. Simply putting yourself in someone else's shoes might make you understand their reasoning better, but it doesn't automatically excuse their actions.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349 |
Quote:
Simply putting yourself in someone else's shoes might make you understand their reasoning better, but it doesn't automatically excuse their actions.
When did I ever excuse their actions?? I never did. I was commenting on how a lot of Palestinians may percieve(perception) Hamas. I was commenting on Tylers statement about his Palestinian roomate.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405 |
Quote:
No this is that other Jimmy Carter.
Oh...my bad... 
"My signature line goes here."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 176
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 176 |
Quote:
Quote:
Simply putting yourself in someone else's shoes might make you understand their reasoning better, but it doesn't automatically excuse their actions.
When did I ever excuse their actions?? I never did. I was commenting on how a lot of Palestinians may percieve(perception) Hamas. I was commenting on Tylers statement about his Palestinian roomate.
KING
I understand that you didn't specifically excuse their actions. And I don't mean to make it sound like you actually support or endorse their tactics. But you equated guerrilla fighters who were fighting back against an invader to groups using terrorist techniques. When they simply are not the same...
And when you say things like this, you should understand that it makes it sound like you find their techniques at least arguably defensible:
"I have no problem with Hamas for fightng for what they feel is a unjust occupation of their land by the Jews, my problem with Hamas is their feelings of being at war with Americans due to the US goverment supporting and aiding Israel."
You have no problem with Hamas fighting Israel? Not even their targets and tactics?... the singular problem you listed with them was that they're feeling they're at war with us? Honestly, I have less of a problem with their thoughts on American support. We DO support Israel. They have gotten plenty of monetary and military support from our tax dollars throughout the years. CERTAIN attacks on American entities might even be make sense from their side. My main problem is with the use of terrorist tactics.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum President Carter and hamas
|
|
![[Linked Image from i190.photobucket.com]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z33/booger52/phpGGRdhwAM.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
