DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Oh that wacky Rev. Jeremiah Wright does it again.

Last night at the NAACP conference the past spiritual adviser of Barack Obama, Rev. Wright, made several interesting comments. I picked just one segment about 7 short paragrahs which I'd think would be worthy of discussion.
I have no idea whether these statements are correct or fallacious but do think that if said by a prominent conservative speaker they would be considered more newsworthy.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/28/wright.transcript/index.html


"Turn to your neighbor and say different does not mean deficient. It simply means different. In fact, Dr. Janice Hale was the first writer whom I read who used that phrase. Different does not mean deficient. Different is not synonymous with deficient. It was in Dr. Hale's first book, "Black Children their Roots, Culture and Learning Style." Is Dr. Hale here tonight? We owe her a debt of gratitude. Dr. Hale showed us that in comparing African-American children and European-American children in the field of education, we were comparing apples and rocks.

And in so doing, we kept coming up with meaningless labels like EMH, educable mentally handicapped, TMH, trainable mentally handicapped, ADD, attention deficit disorder.

And we were coming up with more meaningless solutions like reading, writing and Ritalin. Dr. Hale's research led her to stop comparing African-American children with European-American children and she started comparing the pedagogical methodologies of African-American children to African children and European-American children to European children. And bingo, she discovered that the two different worlds have two different ways of learning. European and European-American children have a left brained cognitive object oriented learning style and the entire educational learning system in the United States of America. Back in the early '70s, when Dr. Hale did her research was based on left brained cognitive object oriented learning style. Let me help you with fifty cent words.

Left brain is logical and analytical. Object oriented means the student learns from an object. From the solitude of the cradle with objects being hung over his or her head to help them determine colors and shape to the solitude in a carol in a PhD program stuffed off somewhere in a corner in absolute quietness to absorb from the object. From a block to a book, an object. That is one way of learning, but it is only one way of learning.

African and African-American children have a different way of learning.

They are right brained, subject oriented in their learning style. Right brain that means creative and intuitive. Subject oriented means they learn from a subject, not an object. They learn from a person. Some of you are old enough, I see your hair color, to remember when the NAACP won that tremendous desegregation case back in 1954 and when the schools were desegregated. They were never integrated. When they were desegregated in Philadelphia, several of the white teachers in my school freaked out. Why? Because black kids wouldn't stay in their place. Over there behind the desk, black kids climbed up all on them.

Because they learn from a subject, not from an object. Tell me a story. They have a different way of learning. Those same children who have difficulty reading from an object and who are labeled EMH, DMH and ADD. Those children can say every word from every song on every hip hop radio station half of who's words the average adult here tonight cannot understand. Why? Because they come from a right-brained creative oral culture like the (greos) in Africa who can go for two or three days as oral repositories of a people's history and like the oral tradition which passed down the first five book in our Jewish bible, our Christian Bible, our Hebrew bible long before there was a written Hebrew script or alphabet. And repeat incredulously long passages like Psalm 119 using mnemonic devices using eight line stanzas. Each stanza starting with a different letter of the alphabet. That is a different way of learning. It's not deficient, it is just different. Somebody say different. I believe that a change is going to come because many of us are committed to changing how we see other people who are different.

What Dr. Janice Hale did in the field of education, Dr. Geneva Smitherman did in the field of linguistics. Almost 25 years ago now, Dr. Smitherman's book published by Wayne State University talking and testifying the language of black America taught us the same thing. Different does not mean deficient. Linguists have known since the mid 20th century that number one, nobody in Detroit, with the exception of citizens born and raised in the United Kingdom, nobody in Detroit speaks English. We all speak different varieties of American. If you don't believe me, go to the United Kingdom. As soon as you open your mouth in the United Kingdom, they'll say oh you're from America. Because they hear you speak in American. Linguists knew that nobody in here speaks English, but only black children 50 years ago were singled out as speaking bad English."

OK...are your school boards negligent if they do not resegregate the schools by racial makeup to better serve the AA students since their brains are considerably diverse from other human brains? Or does this mean that we should scrape our way of teaching to simply discuss subjects without any objective examples to consider?
Does poor grammar become acceptable in light of the many different accents prevalent in America today? Does a New Englander deserve required remedial language courses simply for being unable to vocalize the r sound in the word "park" as opposed to the colloquial sounding of the word "ask" as "aks"???

Poor Obama he is NOT RESPONSIBLE for any of the remarks made by the good Reverend but few African American students will benefit from these BS arguments Rev. Wright serves up!

I actually rthink some of what he is saying makes sense, I may not agree on all of it but he makes some good points.



KING

I agree

It's not like he's saying that the schools owe African-American children a new form of education.

What he's saying is we learn differently.

I know this first hand from my own daughter who is as bright as the sky, but has been labeled ADD, because she learns differently. It's impossible for the schools and teachers to cater to each students needs.

But like was said...different doesn't mean deficient.

I'm not sure what his point was.

Not really pointed just at you but to Ralphie and others,
IF people would just listen to the entire speech, you might find out that he is not as "wacky" and racist as one might think!!!

The only thing I wonder is does she learn different because she is African American or does she learn differently just because she learns differently?? I am sure there are white kids who learn differently also and they proably get labled as ADD or LD or whatever.


KING

I'm sure there's a combination of both in some cases. But we need to just accept that black people and white people are just DIFFERENT, beyond skin color.

Ever seen Akeelah and the Bee. She learned best to a rhythm. Most black people I know, said the same thing. I work on a rhythm. You could write a song to it.

Rev. Wright may be the only one who knows the point of his argument but the practical value of the statement is that the "hierarchy of the white American educational system" has failed to recognize the proper method to motivate AA students.

I don't know if he is suggesting a return to "separate but equal" education systems for racial diversity or not. If so he is a fool...if not he needs to explain a more efficient plan. Wonder what he'd suggest for students of mixed marriages?

If he is trying to equate the lazy speech patterns of the southern drawl or the odd New England habit of drawing out vowels to the exclusion of consonants which follow vowels to the craziness of Ebonics then he has cheated his followers.

Oftentimes it is better to quit while you are ahead...his points were made concerning our checkered history of treatment of Native Americans and Japanese Americans during WWII. To add comments which claim that their are physical limitations or mental limitations present in one race as opposed to another is a dangerous action.

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To add comments which claim that their are physical limitations or mental limitations present in one race as opposed to another is a dangerous action.

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Thats what his speech was about right there. He's not saying anyone is limited, he's simply saying there are different cognitive patterns and ways of learning between different races.

Different, NOT deficient.

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If he is trying to equate the lazy speech patterns of the southern drawl or the odd New England habit of drawing out vowels to the exclusion of consonants which follow vowels to the craziness of Ebonics then he has cheated his followers.

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How do you suppose he cheated his followers? Exclusion of consonants is no different than the two other examples you gave. I don't understand the point you're trying to make right here.

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but the practical value of the statement is that the "hierarchy of the white American educational system" has failed to recognize the proper method to motivate AA students.

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Maybe they have. Boys are not interchangeable with girls no matter how much the hardcore feminists wanted them to be, blacks are not interchangeable with whites... It's amazing how many times over the last 30 years I've been called backwards for saying that... It's amazing it took science this long to catch up with the 1940s...

DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying the 1940s were utopian.. obviously a lot of their reasoning and explanation was WAY OFF, but their conclusion was largely correct. Boys and girls are different, blacks and whites are different.... Where we have progressed in understanding that different does not equal better...

I find that thought process very interesting. Dont African Americans who attend historically lack colleges generally do better than blacks who attend mainstream universitys??

Have the black academys that have been started around the nation been succeses?

Is there a possibilty that seperate but equal education could possibly be better for white students as well as black students???

KING

I do not know. I do know that boys who attend all boys schools tend to do better as do girls that attend all girls schools. One could make the argument that these are private schools, they have wealthy parents and that is more of the reason. I happen to think that, at the very least, boys and girls in the same classroom creates "distractions"... I also believe that the learning styles are different. For instance, boys use logic.

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But then again you really did know that anyway, didn't you.

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Well I guess I didn't.

How's he cheating his followers again...?

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The point concerning the inappropriateness of Ebonics in the mainstream of America should be obvious.

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How is ebonics (I hate that term) in mainstream America?

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When an authority figure chooses to allow his child to use the incorrect tense of a verb or the intellectual stutter of "you know", "you feelin' me" or "you know what I'm saying man? repeatedly that child most likely will be not be given serious consideration for advancement regardless of his or her other capabilities.

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So you must believe that people who speak "ebonics", speak that way all the time.

Not so. How I talk to my co-workers, is not how I talk to my friends. If I speak ebonics, I know when to use it, and when not too. As many people do.

So what about people from foreign countries who stumble through the english language? Are they not to be taken serious too? Or should they stick to speaking their own language...but then again, can't have that either right?


Truthfully, ebonics and how most white people in trailer parks talk, is very similar...what's the link? Poverty!

I'm brown...and i always thought i had ADD lol

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Maybe they have. Boys are not interchangeable with girls no matter how much the hardcore feminists wanted them to be, blacks are not interchangeable with whites... It's amazing how many times over the last 30 years I've been called backwards for saying that... It's amazing it took science this long to catch up with the 1940s...

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So, you're saying we weren't all created equal?

There is a valid point, beyond the cultural aspects.

You can look as the other latin based societies of the world and see some startling differences in the way that we communicate.

Japanese, Chinese, Korean, do not use letters in the way we do, yet are able to communicate. Arabic is written in the reverse direction.

I would suggest that the thought process in those cultures is different as well. It is one thing to think in a foreign language and then speak in another.

Then again, I was in Scotland once, and I needed a translator even though the person was speaking english.

I always thought right handed meant left-brain and left handed meant right brain. Has
nothing to do with race.

"...Well I guess I didn't.

How's he cheating his followers again...? "

Wright is stating that the learning of and the use of Ebonics is no different than the the learning and use of a southern drawl or New England accent.

Ebonics fails to use grammatically correct sentence structure and uses incorrect verb tenses as a hallmark of its pattern. The other accents do not in most all cases.

The general business world uses standard, grammatically correct English as it's course of communication. Those who choose to reject it's use will generally be left out of the business world......unless.................................
they cater to other Ebonics based fans.

To purposely limit a citizen's opportunity by steering him or her away from the mainstream approach to societal communications DOES A DISSERVICE
TO THE FOLLOWERS.

"...Truthfully, ebonics and how most white people in trailer parks talk, is very similar...what's the link? Poverty"

Poverty? Poor people are incapable of learning? no I don't think so.
People who practice Ebonics or other poor grammatical language skills generally choose to be left out of the mix of higher employment possibilities. How much money you have or don't have in your pocket isn't a determinant of your desire to be successful in the American business opportunity... hard work and sacrifice...even the act of comforming is expected.

Economics has always played a part in the level of education. Just the way it is.

Nobody practices ebonics, you say that like there's a class at the Y you can take. That's real stupid.

It all boils down to education or a lack thereof. I've heard many a poor white person talk in the same manner as what you would call ebonics.

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Nobody practices ebonics, you say that like there's a class at the Y you can take.

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George Will: Rev. Jeremiah Wright is a fountain of anti-American rubbish
By GEORGE F. WILL

10 hours, 56 minutes ago

BECAUSE John McCain and other legislators worry that they are easily corrupted, there are legal limits to the monetary contributions that anyone can make to political candidates. There are, however, no limits to the rhetorical contributions that the Rev. Jeremiah Wright can make to McCain's campaign.

Because Wright is a gift determined to keep on giving, this question arises: Can persons opposed to Barack Obama's candidacy justly make use of Wright's invariably interesting interventions in the campaign? The answer is: Certainly, because Wright's paranoias tell us something -- exactly what remains to be explored -- about his 20-year parishioner.

In Monday's speech at the National Press Club, Wright repeated -- decorously, by his standards, but clearly -- his accusation, made the Sunday after 9/11, that America got what it deserved. His Monday answer to a question about that accusation was: "Whatsoever you sow, that you also shall reap" and "you cannot do terrorism on other people and expect them never to come back on you." As evidence that "our government is capable of doing anything," he strongly hinted that he has intellectually respectable corroboration -- he mentioned several publications -- for his original charge that the U.S. government is guilty of "inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color." But on Monday he insisted that he is not anti-American: It is, he said, Americans' government, not the American public, that is a genocidal perpetrator of terrorism. So, he now denies that America has a representative government -- that it represents the public. He believes that elections constantly and mysteriously -- and against the public's will -- produce a genocidal, terroristic government.

On Monday, Wright also espoused the racialist doctrine that blacks have "different" learning styles than do others. This doctrine of racially different brains, or of an unalterably different black culture, is a doctrine today used to justify various soft bigotries of low expectations regarding blacks, and especially black children. It has a long pedigree as a rationalization for injustices. Slaveholders and, later, segregationists loved it.

Obama should be questioned about whether he agrees about "different" learning styles. It is, however, predictable that journalistic and political choruses will attempt to suppress such questioning by suggesting that it is somehow illegitimate. The "daisy ad" and "Willie Horton" will be darkly mentioned.

There have been two television ads in presidential campaigns concerning which there is a settled consensus of deep disapproval. In both cases, the consensus about these acts of supposed mischief is mistaken.

The first ad was used in 1964 by Lyndon Johnson against Barry Goldwater: A small girl plucked petals from a daisy as a voice counted down to a nuclear explosion. The ad, reflecting Johnson's fear that his large lead would cause complacency among his supporters, concluded with a voice saying: "The stakes are too high for you to stay home." Goldwater and many of his supporters were incensed. But Goldwater had said several things suggestive of a somewhat cavalier attitude about the use of force, including nuclear weapons. He had made his judgment a legitimate issue.

In the spring of 1988, in a debate among candidates for the Democratic presidential nomination, Tennessee Sen. Al Gore used the matter of Willie Horton against Massachusetts Gov. Michael Dukakis, one of Gore's rivals.

Horton had been in a Massachusetts prison serving a life sentence for the murder of a boy Horton stabbed 19 times during a robbery. Horton was frequently released on weekend furloughs. Finally, he fled, kidnapped a couple, stabbed the man and repeatedly raped the woman. Because the ad, made by supporters of Vice President George Bush, included a photo of Horton, critics called it racist. But supporters of Bush argued that the Horton episode was emblematic of Massachusetts' political culture, or of a liberal mentality, pertinent to assessing Dukakis.

When North Carolina Republicans recently ran an ad featuring Wright in full cry, McCain mounted his high horse, from which he rarely dismounts, and demanded that the ad be withdrawn. The North Carolinians properly refused. Wright is relevant.

He is a demagogue with whom Obama has had a voluntary 20-year relationship that implies, if not moral approval, certainly no serious disapproval. Wright also is an ongoing fountain of anti-American and, properly understood, anti-black rubbish. His Monday speech demonstrated that he wants to be a central figure in this presidential campaign. He should be.


http://www.theunionleader.com/article.as...f2-b62afd499769

"Economics has always played a part in the level of education. Just the way it is.
Nobody practices ebonics, you say that like there's a class at the Y you can take. That's real stupid.
It all boils down to education or a lack thereof. I've heard many a poor white person talk in the same manner as what you would call ebonics. "

Actually that is really stupid...and I never suggested that you need to learn ebonics from a textbook. You simply must allow yourself to follow the uneducated speech patterns of others in your neighborhood where real educational advancement is not only devalued but ridiculed!

Unless these poor whites live in the 'hood there are not many white ebonics masters in America...there are some I know but not great numbers of them.

Now stupid is what stupid does and that occurs in all races and groups but we are discussing ebonics at the moment not the kentucky mountain twang!

I am not a fan of many of his viewpoints but I read up a little on the guy today.

WOW...US Marine, Navy Fighter Pilot. He earns my respect.

I have two issues with his current news pandering...he is hurting Obama's campaign and making himself to be bigger than Obama's goal. Obama as President and him as head of the NAACP is much better than just him in charge of the NAACP. I think he is missing that point.

Secondly, maybe I am the only one who feels this way but when an African American 'preacher' gets up and spouts political talk, we (as white people) roll our eyes and think of the grandstanding of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Unfortunately he gets lumped in that group of hypocrites when maybe he doesn't deserve that.

Because of his service, I almost want to listen to him more, but he is presenting an opinion in a way that alienates people, not causes people to discuss the issue. Correct intention but wrong approach.

MIKE GLOVER, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 3 minutes ago



WINSTON-SALEM, N.C. - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Tuesday he was outraged by the latest divisive comments from his former pastor and rejected the notion that he secretly agrees with him.

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Obama is seeking to tamp down the growing fury over Rev. Jeremiah Wright and his incendiary remarks that threaten to undermine his campaign at a tough time. The Illinois senator is coming off a loss in Pennsylvania to rival Hillary Rodham Clinton and trying to win over white working-class voters in Indiana and North Carolina in next Tuesday's primaries.

"I am outraged by the comments that were made and saddened by the spectacle that we saw yesterday," Obama told reporters at a news conference.

After weeks of staying out of the public eye while critics lambasted his sermons, Wright made three public appearances in four days to defend himself. The former pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago has been combative, providing colorful commentary and feeding the story Obama had hoped was dying down.

On Monday, Wright criticized the U.S. government as imperialist and stood by his suggestion that the United States invented the HIV virus as a means of genocide against minorities. "Based on this Tuskegee experiment and based on what has happened to Africans in this country, I believe our government is capable of doing anything," he said.

And perhaps even worse for Obama, Wright suggested that the church congregant secretly concurs.

"If Senator Obama did not say what he said, he would never get elected," Wright said. "Politicians say what they say and do what they do based on electability, based on sound bites, based on polls."

Obama stated flatly that he doesn't share the views of the man who officiated at his wedding, baptized his two daughters and been his pastor for 20 years. The title of Obama's second book, "The Audacity of Hope," came from a Wright sermon.

"What became clear to me is that he was presenting a world view that contradicts who I am and what I stand for," Obama said. "And what I think particularly angered me was his suggestion somehow that my previous denunciation of his remarks were somehow political posturing. Anybody who knows me and anybody who knows what I'm about knows that I am about trying to bridge gaps and I see the commonality in all people."

In a highly publicized speech last month, Obama sharply condemned Wright's remarks. But he did not leave the church or repudiate the minister himself, who he said was like a family member.

On Tuesday, Obama sought to distance himself further from Wright.

"I have been a member of Trinity United Church of Christ since 1992, and have known Reverand Wright for 20 years," Obama said. "The person I saw yesterday was not the person that I met 20 years ago."

Obama said he heard that Wright had given "a performance" and when he watched news accounts, he realized that it more than just a case of the former pastor defending himself.

"His comments were not only divisive and destructive, I believe they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate," Obama said. "I'll be honest with you, I hadn't seen it" when reacting initially on Monday, he said.

Wright had asserted that criticism of his fiery sermons was an attack on the black church. Obama rejected that notion.

Obama said his earlier mild reaction came because he gave him the benefit of the doubt, but that evaporated when he saw Wright's speech. Wright's comments may well have severed the relationship.

"He has done great damage, I do not see that relationship being the same," said Obama.

"What became clear to me was that he was presenting a world view that contradicts what I am and what I stand for," Obama said.

Wright recently retired from the church. He became an issue in Obama's presidential bid when videos circulated of Wright condemning the U.S. government for allegedly racist and genocidal acts. In the videos, some several years old, Wright called on God to "damn America." He also said the government created the AIDS virus to destroy "people of color."

Obama said he didn't vet his pastor before deciding to seek the presidency. He said he was particularly distressed that the furor has been a distraction to the purpose of a campaign.

"I gave him the benefit of the doubt in my speech in Philadelphia explaining that he's done enormous good. ... But when he states and then amplifies such ridiculous propositions as the U.S. government somehow being involved in AIDS. ... There are no excuses. They offended me. They rightly offend all Americans and they should be denounced."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_el_pr/obama_pastor

Looks like Obama has had enough of his pastor - it appears he's trying to distance himself from Wright.

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white working-class voters in Indiana and North Carolina

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Woohooo.. I'm one of those.

Rev Wright just made himself a spokesman for the black community. Whenever anything happens the media will now go straight to him along with Sharpton and JJ. Good way to keep everything all riled up.

It's a shame that he's gone a little too far now. most of what he says is the truth, though we dont' like to hear it.

It's obvious to me this cat doesn't care about Obama.

Here is a black man who has a chance to be a Presidential nominee, and this black dude seems to be doing everything in his power to screw the guy.

Wright is more concerned with book deals and what not. He likes being the "show" To bad nobody calls that guy Uncle Tom.

The guy is a POS.

That was what I was thinking. He is posturing for the head of the NAACP. And he doesn't care who gets in his way.

He is going to cost Obama the election and I don't think there is a better human being still running for President...shame.

I don't really like Obama. I just think it sucks pretty bad when a person of a race that claims as much injustice as Negro's do is being undermined by a person of the same race.

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I just think it sucks pretty bad when a person of a race that claims as much injustice as Negro's do is being undermined by a person of the same race.

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Would you please explain the stated quote. I want to make sure that I have the proper understanding of the "Negro's claims"!!

Obama's not black. He's beige.

Or so goes that Tyler Perry's House of Payne commercial......

Racism is not totally gone from the white community but it is alive and well in pockets in the black community. Even in black programming. And it's exacerbated by black leaders, i mean race bating look at me "Reverands". JMO.

From the soundbites and video clippings of the past couple of days, one would come to the conclusion that Rev Wright does not want Obama to become president.

The stuff that Wright stated was pure garbage. Obama did everything that a resonable person would do to rationalize Wrights statments. His payback was a tirade so pathetic that Obama could position himself to distance himself from Wright, with only those questions as to why it took so long remaining.

Wow, talk about twisting around some words. This guy is a master. He somehow has morphed the theories of left-, and right-brainedness with race in order to further his ill-conceived point.

Obama is smart to keep distance himself from this---however, it is interesting that it took Obama a substantial time to recognize this guys mania.