DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Savage conducting chemistry experiment in Cleveland

web page

Savage conducting chemistry experiment in Cleveland
By James Walker


Tom Szczerbowski/US Presswire

There is a chemistry experiment happening in Cleveland -- a project so volatile that it can last for only the 2008 season.


The subjects are Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn, two talented quarterbacks under the age of 25. The problem is only one can sit in the cockpit of one of the NFL's most exciting offenses, which includes Pro Bowlers Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow and a stellar offensive line.



The chemist is Cleveland Browns general manager Phil Savage, who decided this offseason that it was more important to keep both quarterbacks than accept draft picks to strengthen other positions.



The decision has drawn more ire than praise in Northeast Ohio. There is a saying that behind NBA star LeBron James, the backup quarterback is the most popular athlete in town, and without a doubt, Quinn is the people's choice in Cleveland.



Quinn's Golden Boy image screams franchise quarterback. He was a first-round pick, has a deep pedigree from Notre Dame and is one of their own, born in Columbus, Ohio, about 120 miles south. Quinn's jersey is the top seller in Cleveland, and he has yet to start a game.



It's a popularity contest Anderson will never win, not even with his 3,787 yards, 29 touchdowns and spot in the Pro Bowl this past season. He was even booed at home when returning from injury in the Browns' season finale, because it took Quinn off the field in his only action last season.



"Derek has played over 1,000 snaps, and there's still people that have doubts outside of our building," Savage said. "Brady's played 10 snaps, and people are convinced that he's the guy. It's really kind of illogical."



This type of experiment has been done before.



From 2004 to 2005, the San Diego Chargers delicately balanced their quarterback tandem of Philip Rivers and Drew Brees. Both were high draft picks and starting-caliber quarterbacks, but only one could see the field on Sundays.



Brees played well for the Chargers. In his last two seasons with them, he led the team to 21 victories and a 2004 playoff berth. But after sitting its first-round pick for two seasons, the organization had to choose between the two and went with Rivers. Brees in turn signed a long-term deal with the New Orleans Saints.



"All I know is we had talented quarterbacks and in time we addressed it," Chargers general manager A.J. Smith said. "[The Browns] are in the exact same boat. They're pretty comfortable with the talent they have there right now, and they'll worry about next year next year."



Smith understands what Savage is going through because he faced similar pressure, but he believes the Browns made the right move in re-signing Anderson.



Quarterback injuries "can happen in a second," Smith says, and the Browns were able to protect themselves without making a long-term commitment. Anderson signed a three-year contract worth $24 million on Feb. 29.



"They rest will take care of itself," Smith said. "It could take care of itself through performance. It can take care of itself through injury. It can take of itself through contract situations they might not be comfortable with."



Indeed, both contracts indicate Savage will have to split the two quarterbacks after this season.



Anderson is due a guaranteed roster bonus of $5 million in March 2009, and it's unlikely the Browns will pay it unless they are convinced he is the long-term solution. Meanwhile, the longer Anderson plays, the more money Quinn loses in his incentive-laden, five-year deal.



If Quinn doesn't see the field, he will be one of the NFL's lowest-paid quarterbacks this season. Cleveland is paying Quinn the second-year league minimum of $370,000 in 2008. His salary could increase to $1.693 million if he plays 45 percent of the snaps, but that's unlikely, unless Anderson falters or is injured.



Including all incentives, the maximum value of Quinn's deal was $30 million. But if Quinn continues at this pace without playing time, he will end up making just less than $8 million over five years -- a difference of $22 million. Quinn received most of his guaranteed money in March when the Browns paid him a $4.255 million option bonus.



"It's a great situation for the team," Savage said of having both quarterbacks. "It's not so hot for Brady Quinn, because only one of them can play at a time."



For now, Savage's influence has prevented Quinn and super-agent Tom Condon from demanding a trade. But rest assured, the player and his agent will not sit idle for a third straight year.



"Dr. Phil" has done an impressive job of massaging the egos of both quarterbacks and their representation.



Savage and the coaching staff convinced Anderson to re-sign with the Browns by giving him their backing to be their starter in 2008. Savage in turn has consoled Quinn and Condon that the team remains high on the second-year quarterback.



It's a diplomatic high-wire act that Savage walks every day in his own building.


Money eventually will end this chemistry experiment. But not until Savage and the Browns find out which quarterback is the right fit for their team.


James Walker covers the NFL for ESPN.com

I still wonder just how happy Quinn is with his decision to hold out last year over a couple of million dollars that he might well never see now anyway.

Quote:

---

"Derek has played over 1,000 snaps, and there's still people that have doubts outside of our building," Savage said. "Brady's played 10 snaps, and people are convinced that he's the guy. It's really kind of illogical."

---

This is why in Phil we trust.....that shows why he's incharge and others just sit back and write articals to pill up paper space or to sell something.

I dont know if DA is the one, I dont know if BQ is the one....I do know we will find out and Phil & others will do everything within thier powers to get who is the one...I do believe Phil & others have shown that over the last few years, no trade is too big, no contract is to high to bring in the right person to lead us.

In the end when Phil, Rac & Lerner & the team is standing in the middle of the field holding the Lombardi trophy nobody is gonna remember this artical or the guy who wrote it, but we are gonna remember how Phil wouldnt take no or cant as answers to questions us Browns fans asked, an when that happens I really dont think were gonna care who's at QB....

Wow! Insightful. Must be the dead season. I guess it has been a few days since we talked DA/BQ. I was starting to worry.

oooooo come on now...this article is different... it has a Lebron James reference!!!

I really like how he almost makes it vaguely interesting by reporting on the huge QB controversy developing in his mind. :yawn: :snore:

Let the games begin............what would the board be like without another my QB can beat up your QB thread..lol.

For hte record here's how it will go imo. Unless BQ is ALOT better than DA in TC and the PS games then DA will be the starter, and he should be going in considered the starter imo. So DA will get a chance to prove that he can improve upon his weaknesses, and if he can't we'll see Quinn. We have a much tougher schedule this year, and if DA hasn't improved the D's we play will eat him alive, and then we'll see Quinn. If Quinn comes in folks get ready for some growing pains with a young QB, and be ready for another year without the playoffs. I am one of those guys who doesn't think DA is the answer, but I sure as crap hope I am wrong, becuase this TEAM (emphasis on the word team for alot of you on both sides of this discussion) can be good this year if he has improved.

True !....In Phil We Trust....It's Not that people doubt Anderson's ability....He has played well and deserves be our Starter....Mr. Savage understands that this will be his last season in which he can enjoy the benefit of having both due to the $ concerns....I sometimes think Phil misses the point....It's Not that the Fans don't like Anderson or trust his ability....It's as we have said....In Phil We Trust !....Most Fans believe(d) that Phil knew what he was doing when he traded up to get Quinn....That said , Fans think that Quinn will eventually be our Starter , no matter how well Anderson plays in the future JMHO .....

Quote:

---

But, to really figure out this QB thing, and Savage telling BQ/Condon that they are still high on him, does this mean he'll get a fair shake in training camp to actually compete for a starting job?

---

I can not imagine a training camp where Quinn is so good and DA is so bad that Quinn wins the starting spot on day 1 because, and lets be honest, Quinn can't just outplay DA by a little and win the job, he would have to be SIGNIFICANTLY better.... My concern hasn't changed since about mid last season. My concern is still that DA plays well next year. Good enough that there is no need for Quinn to see the field but not good enough that those of us with doubts have them removed. Then next year at this time we still have DA with some questions as to whether he's good enough to take us to the next level and we still have BQ who hasn't seen significant enough playing time to judge. It is with that in mind that I hope DA either surpasses all expectations or falls flat on his face early. (Questions could be answered by injury too but I never EVER hope a player gets injured)

can someone answer me this?

why do people make it seem like we have to part with one of these guys?

how many years ago did green bay draft aaron rogers, who was drafted almost exactly where quinn was, and still yet had a very highly paid starter in brett favre?

in my opinion, with our tough schedule, and additions to the defense, and the possibility of adding 1 or 2 good players in our light draft, i think the jury will be out on derek anderson, whether he is legit, or was a one year wonder...

but i don't think DA gets enough credit, he did well, and should get better with one year under his belt...

however, dude needs to play better on the road, it's not good enough..

Quote:

---

can someone answer me this?

why do people make it seem like we have to part with one of these guys?

---

I will...

Anderson is nearly a 10M Salary Cap hit in 2009...A 5M Roster Bonus due in the spring...

Brady Quinn has a contract HEAVILY based on playing time...

Do the math even without numbers...

One will be gone after 08...NO DOUBT ABOUT IT...

Numbers with Anderson and an AGENT in Condon with Quinn...It's as simple as that...Enjoy the 08 season...

When will we realize that Derrek Anderson is the one. This has to be Derek Andersons team, and Brady Quinn is capable of coming in and taking over.

When will the fans realize that you have a player who Is, not might, but Is getting the job done. William Green didn't get enough time, even though at the time he was getting the job done. Derek Anderson Is getting the job done and this has to be his team.


On a larger note, to win the first four games on the Browns schedule this year. ONE of many things that must be settled before kickoff, the Quarteback job must be clear.

There is no guarantee draft picks even make the team.

A continuation of the original article above:




Other QB Controversies

Here are five additional quarterback controversies to watch closely in 2008 complete with our expert's picks of who will start:


1. Arizona Cardinals

Contenders: Kurt Warner vs. Matt Leinart
Situation: Leinart has been disappointing, totaling 16 interceptions and 13 touchdowns in his first two seasons. In 2007, Arizona's offense never clicked under the former first-round pick yet improved once Warner took over. The 10-year veteran quietly put together another stellar season with 3,417 passing yards and 27 touchdowns, leaving Arizona in a tough spot.

ESPN.com picks: Jeffri Chadiha, Leinart; John Clayton, Leinart; Matt Mosley, Leinart; Mike Sando, Leinart; James Walker, Warner; Bill Williamson, Leinart; Pat Yasinskas, Leinart.

2. Baltimore Ravens

Contenders: Kyle Boller vs. Joe Flacco
Situation: In the battle to replace the recently retired Steve McNair, the Ravens have one quarterback who is inconsistent and another who is an unproven rookie. Boller had several chances to prove he could lead a franchise, and this likely is his final shot in Baltimore. The Ravens showed in 2006 that they can be a contender with solid quarterback play. Will one of these players step up?

Picks: Chadiha, Boller; Clayton, Boller; Mosley, Boller; Sando, Boller; Walker, Flacco; Williamson, Flacco; Yasinskas, Boller.

3. Miami Dolphins

Contenders: John Beck vs. Chad Henne
Situation: That Miami passed on Matt Ryan with the top pick in the draft shows the Dolphins have some degree of confidence in Beck. But Beck was a pick of the old regime. Henne is the choice of new regime led by Bill Parcells, Miami's vice president of football operations. That should be enough to get Henne a fair chance to win the job in training camp.

Picks: Chadiha, Henne; Clayton, Beck; Mosley, Henne; Sando, Henne; Walker, Henne; Williamson, Henne; Yasinskas, Henne.

4. San Francisco 49ers

Contenders: Alex Smith vs. Shaun Hill
Situation: Smith, a former No. 1 overall pick, showed flashes of brilliance in 2006 when he threw for 2,890 yards, 16 touchdowns and 16 interceptions. Last season might be an anomaly because it was cut short by injury. But Hill opened a lot of eyes in the Bay Area by winning two of his three starts last year and completing 68.4 percent of his passes.

Picks: Chadiha, Smith; Clayton, Smith; Mosley, Smith; Sando, Smith; Walker, Smith; Williamson, Hill; Yasinskas, Smith.

5. New York Jets

Contenders: Kellen Clemens vs. Chad Pennington
Situation: Health has derailed Pennington more than lack of performance. But fans in New York are getting restless with his inability to stay on the field. Meanwhile, Clemens stepped in last year and offered hope. He led the Jets to three of their four victories. Clemens stats do not stand out, but he showed intangibles with overtime victories over the Steelers and Chiefs.

Picks: Chadiha, Clemens; Clayton, Clemens; Mosley, Clemens; Sando, Clemens; Walker, Pennington; Williamson, Clemens; Yasinskas, Pennington.

Honorable mentions go to the Atlanta Falcons (Matt Ryan and Joey Harrington, Chris Redman), Green Bay Packers (Aaron Rodgers and Brian Brohm) and Minnesota Vikings (Tarvaris Jackson, Gus Frerotte and John David Booty).

-- James Walker




Same link as the original article that started this thread.

James Walker covers the NFL for ESPN.com

See, those are possible QB controversies. Our situation isn't except as perceived in the minds of the writer and a few misinformed fans. JMHO

Just an example....

Say Chris Redman has the exact same season and plays exactly the same as Anderson did this season with the same strengths and weaknesses.

Would you suggest that there is no QB controversy in Atlanta in 09?

Im not so much afraid of Anderson failing as I am him playing mediocre (aka just good enough to keep from being benched).

If Anderson continues to improve and shows he's ready to lead this team for years to come then good for him. Quinn can sit one more year as a safety valve and can be traded for pretty good value (and cheap)

If Anderson fails, he is not signed for a long period of time. Even if we would be unable to trade him, his contract is not back breaking and I trhink we can all concur he would be a very good backup.

Quote:

---

If Anderson fails, he is not signed for a long period of time. Even if we would be unable to trade him, his contract is not back breaking and I trhink we can all concur he would be a very good backup.

---

You should read up alittle higher on the page. Next yr Anderson carries a 10 mil. cap hit. We have to make sure this yr if he's the one or not. He doesn't get a maybe next yr. He either is or not. JMO.

nordawg

I'm on a self imposed moritorium on the deadbate again until training camp but I think the why is probably very layered regarding the deadbate.

Maybe it is just Cleveland or Brady or Anderson but i see quite a few other reasons, the biggest being money but there are other reasons lurking.

Quinn's 5yr contract improves from 8M if he sits on the bench to 30M if he hits all his incentives. Quinn is being paid the second year minimum this year 370k. If he plays 45% of the snaps this year it hits 1.5M and also brings other year escalators into play.

I don't really want to get into the others .... must resist! ;D

lol, okay, I'll respect that, but I do seriously doubt they're sitting a "better" QB to save some money.

Darn you James Walker! Darn you for writing this article!!!

Look, I may alone on this one (what else is new?) but I really don't think Quinn's holdout has anything to do with his current status on this team. I think the plan from Day 1 was to have Quinn sit for as long as possible. He would not have started on Opening Day if he had been in camp on time. JMHO, but it's one I firmly believe in. And I don't buy into the whole conspiracy theory that RAC and others were "pushing' him to holdout just so they could make it a clear competition between Frye and DA. While it was certainly convenient, I don't think it was deliberate.

I agree Kardiac. If Quinn is the better QB, no one in this organization is going to want him to sit. However, he hasn't had a chance to prove that because DA has earned the starter's spot.

This goes back to a post I made a long time ago that I really got bashed for. I made the statement that maybe why the Browns have struggled for so long is because of the media and the fans. The media and fans drum up controversy when there is none, and that reflects on the team.

However, we now have an FO that does what it feels is right without regard for what the media and fans think (for the most part). That turned into success. But, if we keep drilling the QB "controversy", more people are going to jump on that bandwagon and really go after DA for every little mistake, even ones that every QB makes.

JMHO

Well, frankly, I could care less about what the other teams' fans and media do. I'm thinking just about Cleveland.

I understand that there is always going to be a certain amount of drama surrounding a team. However, when you have a fanbase as loyal and vocal as the Browns, when you essentially create drama, it's going to cause problems.

JMHO

I can certainly understand why we brought Derek back, I want to see what he has after a whole offseason even though I've been critical of him. However the thing that just baffles me and I have a big problem with is handing the job to DA!

Why not have an open competition?

It's a Win-Win for the Browns...... If Derek is all he's cracked up to be by some, he'll have no problem beating out Quinn in camp and pre-season.

If Quinn comes in folks get ready for some growing pains with a young QB, and be ready for another year without the playoffs.

Says who?

Did anyone think when DA took over in game two(starter) that the Browns would miss the playoffs by one game?

And thats with weaker defenses actually figuring him out in the latter part of the season.


DA could be at the helm all season and we still may not make the playoffs..


If Quinn is better how do we know we still won't have a productive season?
I say we'll be 8-8 or 9-7 at the most..
But I think this will be a even better team EVEN if they miss the playoffs.

I can see two easy, no brainer, reasons why they wouldn't say that it is a wide-open competition:

1. DA is the incumbent... it IS his job until he loses it.
2. Try to minimize the level of absurdity that the media circus is bound to be, regardless of what the F.O. says, come July/August.

I have quite a bit to say about the article and the largely ignorant replies.

---First of all................Savage played this perfectly. He kept both QBs, which was of the utmost importance. He was able to satisfy DA while not closing the door on BQ. That took some doing and I applaud him for such a fine job. I have to add that I wrote to Diam and Shep that I wanted DA signed to that type of contract before it ever materialized, so I ain't just blowing smoke up Savage's butt. He did a GREAT job.

---The article wasn't stupid, just some of the replies to it. *L* It actually was insightful and those who didn't like it just didn't want to hear the truth.

---BQ is the golden boy in many fan's eyes. He is the favored son. He hasn't done squat and DA has, but the fans and media are still behind BQ. Ridiculous. Those who have argued the strongest against DA have been spewing garbage for too long. Doing so has made you look bad. You aren't just arguing w/the likes of me, you are arguing w/the players who play w/both QBs, the coaches who coach both QBs, and the front office, who oversees both QBs. You're dead wrong and you still won't admit it. Pathetic!

---DA is being looked at as the starter not because of money but because he has been better than BQ where it counts. In practices. Throwing the ball. Knowing the offense. Etc. Those of you making claims about money and Savage handing DA the job sound like little freaking kids. Sheesh. It's about performance.

---If the competition is close, the nod will go to BQ. He is the one we gave up the farm for. Not DA. It's unreal how ridiculous you guys are.

---I'm glad that Savage isn't as dumb as Smith. Smith allowed the better QB to get away. If SD still had Brees, Marty might still be coaching there. Rivers ain't near as good as Brees.

---We didn't miss the playoffs because of DA's play...........we missed it because of a crappy defense. And the same might be true again next year.

---I love the Redman comparison. Redman had chances before. This was DA's first chance and he succeeded. Redman was always a stiff.


---There was a comment about fans nitpicking every mistake that DA makes. LOL..........they have already done that. All QBs make mistakes and have flaws in their game. And DA was a first time starter and under a new coordinator, but he shouldn't make any mistakes, huh? Get the hell outta here w/that BS.

---The plan was to sit BQ from day one. However, the plan was also for BQ to start in year two, no matter what. And you can take that to the bank! But.........guess what? DA's PERFORMANCE derailed those plans. He was so good that the FO and coaching staff said he deserved another look. Period.

---The fans/media can derail what is a good thing. You're going to try to hurt this team so you can get your guy in. Just know this. I'll fight you every inch of the way. Bring it!

Quote:

---

---The plan was to sit BQ from day one. However, the plan was also for BQ to start in year two, no matter what. And you can take that to the bank! But.........guess what? DA's PERFORMANCE derailed those plans. He was so good that the FO and coaching staff said he deserved another look. Period.

---

I don't see how anyone could have explained it more clearly. Kudos!

Vers,

I really respect your comments on football and elsewhere.

You have caused me to take a closer look at DA and give him a fair shot...as ddubia has me being more patient w/ RAC. I do not get into the DA v BQ debate because frankly I do not know enough about the Xs and Os of football to be of any use in said debate.

But in this thread, I think you are trying to start a fight. You said "Largely ignorant replies". I went back and re-read every single post in here. I did not find ONE post that was ignorant nor ONE post that rang of an "agenda".

While there are plenty of posts on this board that DO have an agenda...and I can understand your frustration with some people's seeming unwillingness or inability to see your point...I think this thread has been pretty good and not full of silly agendas or stupidity.

At the end of the day, I think way more people agree with you than disagree...and in this post, I think darn near everyone agrees with you.