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Like I said numerous times..............As long as you guys keep making crap up and talking nonsense, I will refute it.
Making things up. Let's see about that.
Overall in the NFL, how did DA rank in accuracy?
Are you saying that DA has ANY "scrambling ability"?
What happens when injuries occur that FORCE DA to roll out and throw on the run?
Just because you aren't comfortable with the reality of the many question marks that beg to wonder "can DA ever BE a complete QB, doesn't mean the questions aren't valid or "made up".
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I think that you are getting bent out of shape over DA going into this season as the starter. He was given the contract because of his play. He was named the starter because thus far he has been better than BQ. It's that simple.
Actually, I'm not at all. I would fully expect DA to be the starter at this point in time. I just would hope that Quinn is given the opportunity to win it. And when I say opportunity, I'm not meaning going in if DA gets hurt or is stinking up the joint. I'm talking if he looks better, play him. DA was the starter last year and deserves to go into this year in the same position. But when Phil says it's not an open competition, that is where I start to have the problem.
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If BQ proves to understand the offense better, look better in practices, and in games.......he will move ahead of DA.
That is all I want. And for the record, if he doesn't, I won't be mad. I want the best man to play. Like I said, I want that Superbowl like everyone else.
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It's so obvious. I think some of you guys want BQ to be the QB so badly that you can't see the obvious. Savage kept DA and gave away the chance at getting picks, which would have really helped the defense, because he saw a lot he liked in DA last year.
And this is where we initially started having our disagreements with the subject.
I was one who was all for us tendering DA and letting him sign elsewhere. I felt the drop off (if any- we don't know what would happen) at QB would be far less valuable then the picks we would get to shore up the DL or get another pass rusher opposite of Wimbley. Ranking 30th in defense isn't going to get you too far, no matter how well your offense plays.
Fortunately, Savage worked some magic and did get that DL quite a bit stronger while keeping both QBs. Believe me, our QB situation is desirable. Much better than most would have imagined a year ago. And like I said, I have concerns with Derek. It doesn't mean I hate the guy. If he plays well, I'm happy, because that means more than likely we're winning.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Poser
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Vers, I don't disagree with what you've said about DA going in as the starter, as he should. I would say, though, that you have a bit of tunnel vision in interpreting why DA stayed. There is another scenario that is possible. DA could very well have been kept because of a couple other reasons. First, maybe BQ isn't completely ready and needed more time before being put in as a starter. Also, Savage may have looked at this years draft, which was considered weak, and decided sgning DA and waiting until next year to trade him would bring more value out of the picks obtained. This would allow BQ more time, allow the Browns to evaluate DA a little more to see if he can develop into a franchise QB, and also get more picks in next year's draft that is considered to be a deeper draft than this years. I'm not saying that's the case, but simply pointing to DA not being traded and explaining it as only one option is, like I said, a little bit of tunnel vision. There could be other reasons and I just threw out one.
I think DA should be the starter going into camp. I still have concerns about some of his game, but I do with BQ as well. I trust Savage and RAC to make the right choice for this coming season and for the long term both. Either way, this is a good problem to have, rather than having a situation where you are making a decision that is the lesser of two evils. For the first time in a long time, the old adage of "if you have two QBs you don't have any" doesn''t apply.
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Vers, I don't disagree with what you've said about DA going in as the starter, as he should. I would say, though, that you have a bit of tunnel vision in interpreting why DA stayed. There is another scenario that is possible. DA could very well have been kept because of a couple other reasons. First, maybe BQ isn't completely ready and needed more time before being put in as a starter.
Coach, if you read closely........that really isn't any different than what I claimed.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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All Pro
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I think Spurgeon Wynn woulda gone undefeated behind this line. Lets get him signed from the arena league!  
"I don't remember any of my catches. I remember the drops." - Kellen Winslow II
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Just because you aren't comfortable with the reality of the many question marks that beg to wonder "can DA ever BE a complete QB, doesn't mean the questions aren't valid or "made up".
I'm having an epiphany.
There are actually two different discussions going on here that are so close to each other in subject matter and data that they intertwine in an unfortunate way because the arguement cannot then be settled due to each side's ultimate goal being so different.
One side is discussing the Browns quarterback situation in an attempt to understand what is going on in the minds of our football staff as they make their evaluations, determinations and decisions regarding DA and BQ.
The other side is trying to see who can pick the best overall, all-time quarterback between DA and BQ.
As you can see, the two sides coming to an agreement is inherently impossible as the final answer to one side has absolutely nothing to do with the questions from the other side. And vice versa.
We need two different threads for this and they would not be duplicates.
One thread would be titled "How the Browns are planing their quarterback situation".
The other one would be titled, "Who is the best quarterback and why?".
As already stated, the subject matter and data on each discussion is so close that the topics get confused and intermingle. Than, the similarities in subject and data causes them to merge into one thread/discussion/issue, which in turn causes disagreements that can never be resolved.
The Revalaton: Whenever the two sides merge into the same topic they generally agree. It's happened a million times in this thread. Conversely, it's when their topics widen that the heated arguements occur. This is because they are now taking about two different things so they make no sense to each other. This has also happened a million times in this thread.
The Solution: Carefully read what each other is saying while being cautious not to misunderstand which of the two topics the poster is on. You may argue either or both topics simultaneously so long as you stay each topic respectively. If you argue one topic against the other then you're likely in for a fight.
If you argue both topics in the same post you will cause both sides to become irate. Then you've got your hands full.
#gmstrong
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We need two different threads for this and they would not be duplicates.
One thread would be titled "How the Browns are planing their quarterback situation".
The other one would be titled, "Who is the best quarterback and why?".
May I try to merge them? 
The Browns are not sure who the best QB is, therefore they worked a deal w/DA that kept both QBs satisfied and bought themselves some time. At this point in time, DA has been better in their eyes than BQ, and that is why DA is the starter going into the season. As noted in my first sentence, this does not mean they "know" that DA will be better down the road, so the question as to who will be better is unknown.
Well.........what do you think?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I think Pit will come along and inform you that the "season" begins with training camp and that's what the FO meant when they said DA was the starter. 
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LOL..............and Happy Birthday, you old fart.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I think Pit will come along and inform you that the "season" begins with training camp and that's what the FO meant when they said DA was the starter.
Me 2...lol... 
Go Browns!!!
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Well.........what do you think?
I think Shep is right.
Really, I think that is clear only to those who don't have a "favorite" quarterback to promote. The issue is what it is. Understanding the reality of the issue is one thing and it really doesn't seem to be so hard.
But trying to understand the reality of the issue in an open-minded manner, while being biased toward one player, is difficult at best and impossible in the end.
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Dawg Talker
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I think Shep is right.
Really, I think that is clear only to those who don't have a "favorite" quarterback to promote. The issue is what it is. Understanding the reality of the issue is one thing and it really doesn't seem to be so hard.
But trying to understand the reality of the issue in an open-minded manner, while being biased toward one player, is difficult at best and impossible in the end.
Wow! Check out the big brains on ddubia. Bravo man! This explains exactly why I went from advocating for BQ to defending DA to not even posting on the subject anymore. The evolution of thought in its entirety. 
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Legend
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I think Pit will come along and inform you that the "season" begins with training camp and that's what the FO meant when they said DA was the starter.
Pit might come along and say that is just as much of a possibility as anything else.
IMO, Savages comments have not given "card blanche" to indicate that DA will be our starter in the first game of the regular season.
I don't think any of us "know" which is the case. In general, when a starter has had a relatively successful season, he is your "named starter". But we have a training camp and pre season yet to go through. So no, I don't believe that just because he's the "named starter" at this juncture serves as an insurance policy that things have no possibilty to change throughout that process.
It may, or it may not.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Ok Vers, even though you keep ignoring what I post and replacing it with what you are certain that I really mean, I'll try this again. Quote:
LOL..................you don't have enough information. You want to believe BQ is the guy.
I have the information that I have, which is considerably less than what RAC has... so I have an opinion but I have ALWAYS supported his decisions. I am anxious to see the kid play and see what he can do, but not at the expense of winning, especially in the longer term. That is my fear, is that we are going to continue to go 10-6 with DA while a QB who MIGHT be capable of putting us on another level sits behind him... but if RAC goes with DA, then I will cheer like hell for DA.. I won't boo if he has a bad game, I'll be critical, but I won't boo... I won't cheer if he gets hurt... If he plays well, I'll say so, If it gets to the point where I think he is costing us games, I'll say so.. and no amount of insults from you is going to stop that. If you feel your own opinion is more accurate and more valid than mine, feel free to not read mine.
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Do you think that Savage would have paid DA the money and that Savage and RAC, w/the obvious blessing of Chud and Rip would have named DA the starter if they thought that BQ was obviously better?
I don't think anybody knows for sure that BQ is OBVIOUSLY better... is he potentially better? Yea, potentially. I also think Phil and RAC weighed their options and knew that letting a pro-bowl alternate walk away from a team that has longed for QB for quite a while in favor of an unproven rookie could potentially make them look like imbeciles.
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You're right. Your reading comprehension sucks. Yes, it is obvious what you were saying. You think that the better QB is on the bench. So therefore, why would they keep him on the bench if he was better? Why would they pay DA the money if they KNEW that BQ was better?
I don't really need reading comprehension to know what I said. Can you please show me where I said that I know BQ is better? Or where I said RAC would play the QB who did not give us the best chance to win? All I said, for the Brazillionth time, is that I fear we are going to have to make a FINAL decision, without ever seeing BQ on the field... that's all.
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Finally, a decent proposal. Perhaps they chose Frye because he looked better in camp and preseason games. Perhaps he had a leg up because he was the incumbent. Perhaps, his higher draft status made him the more desirable choice.
But............did you ever consider why there was a competition in the first place and why there really isn't one this year? LOL
There was a competition last year because neither QB looked consistently good.. both showed flashes but both showed a considerable negative..... My guess would be there is not a formal competition this year because DA had a good year and the Browns won more games than expected. I'm sure DA fully understands the length of his leash.
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The rats sure jumped out of the woodwork as soon as they smelled blood. And you are going to make what should be an enjoyable and growing season into pure hell. All because you wanna see your guy. You can spew your BS all you want. I know what you are up to. Seen it too many times. Your inane and uneducated reasons are going to hurt this team.
Don't read my posts. The ONLY I'm going to ruin this season for you is if DA lays egg after egg and doesn't get yanked. If he plays well, then I will support him. As for hurting this team, I'm flattered that you think I hold that much sway. If they play well, I'll be happy, if they don't, I'll be pissed... how exactly is that going to hurt anybody?
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And if DA were to get hurt and BQ were to take over.......watch the excuse parade begin. The line really isn't that good. Too many guys are aging and need replaced. Lewis will have lost it. K2's knees are killing him. Joe is too old. Edwards is still good, but how can you expect him to produce big numbers again when all the other skill positions, except QB, have digressed. Oh..........and the schedule. You'll say that DA wouldn't have won a game.
Why do you bother to post if you already know what everybody is going to say? Do you advise teachers to give kids grades before seeing their work because they just know what it's going to look like? The only "excuse" Brady Quinn will get from me is he will be given just a little more wiggle room for mental mistakes because this is his second year, first with playing time.. which is pretty much what I gave DA in 06 and at the beginning of 07... if people start getting hurt, like Thomas, Steinbach, Winslow etc.. you can bet your butt that I'll bring that into the equation as well...
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It's okay to have opinions and be a fan, but don't act like you know more than the Brown's coaching staff and Savage.
Thank you for approving my request to have an opinion. I see that you have already set up your own excuse... If Quinn plays it's because of marketing and draft status and contracts... nice pre-emptive strike.
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Now............take your little bruised and offended egos.....regroup.......and come stronger,
I have to have a fair amount of respect for somebodys opinion for them to bruise my ego... so needless to say, my ego is just fine.
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because not one of you have said a thing that adds up to WHY BQ is better than DA at this particular point in time.
That is probably a direct result of the fact that none of us have tried to do that.
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And while it may stick to a wall.........it ain't sticking w/this guy.......
Are you that guy in the plaid jacket on the airplane that talks about himself in the 3rd person? I can see that.
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Gotta admit.........this is a lot of fun.
It could be fun, if I didn't have to keep explaining myself and my opinions to a guy who thinks he knows my opinions better than I do... 
yebat' Putin
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You mean you're not a "DA hater" because you are unsure of who the best QB is to lead us into the future for the long haul? You're not a DA hater because you hope to see the kid get a chance? You mean you aren't a DA hater if you feel he may have limitations that "might" keep us from getting to the next level? So just because you have questions about DA, it doesn't make you a "hater"? That's what I thought all along. I was just waiting for someone else to point it out. BTW- Brazillionth? Isn't that where those huge Brazillionth Nuts come from? 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Yeah, that's basically what I've been saying. Being critical or having concerns doesn't make you a "hater."
I'm not the guy who booed DA when in preseason when we wanted to see Quinn. I'm not the guy who cheered when Timmy got hurt and Kelly came in. I'm not the guy who was cheering for Charlie to take over in his first season out of Akron for Dilfer. I got excited to see Quinn come onto the field and gave him a nice ovation, but I don't hate on players.
I don't hate on my players. I might express my concerns, but this is a message board. We're here to discuss football. That's what it's for. I don't like the term "hater."
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Hater? I just love how you guys turn things around.  Here is what I said: Quote:
We need two different threads for this and they would not be duplicates.
One thread would be titled "How the Browns are planing their quarterback situation".
The other one would be titled, "Who is the best quarterback and why?".
May I try to merge them?
The Browns are not sure who the best QB is, therefore they worked a deal w/DA that kept both QBs satisfied and bought themselves some time. At this point in time, DA has been better in their eyes than BQ, and that is why DA is the starter going into the season. As noted in my first sentence, this does not mean they "know" that DA will be better down the road, so the question as to who will be better is unknown.
Well.........what do you think? Yeah, that was harsh. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Legend
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Oh, you wish to limit it to your "latest post"?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Legend
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Legend
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The Browns are not sure who the best QB is, therefore they worked a deal w/DA that kept both QBs satisfied and bought themselves some time. At this point in time, DA has been better in their eyes than BQ, and that is why DA is the starter going into the season. As noted in my first sentence, this does not mean they "know" that DA will be better down the road, so the question as to who will be better is unknown.
That is EXTREMELY similar to what I've been saying all along and you've been insulting me over it. 
yebat' Putin
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DC...........I was "insulting" you over saying things like "I think the better QB is on the bench," and "DA will play just good enough not to get benched and that scares me." By saying things like that, you are suggesting that RAC, Savage, Chud, and Rip don't know their ass from a hole in the ground or even worse, are manipulating the competition because they like DA better.
And DC.............why don't you go check your replies to me and look for insults. You certainly aren't the victim here.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I'm not going to spend a lot of time looking stuff up, but if somebody cares to, but I don't think I ever said... Quote:
"I think the better QB is on the bench,"
I may have said, I WONDER if the better QB is on the bench.. but I don't know if he IS better or not.
and I never said..
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"DA will play just good enough not to get benched and that scares me."
What I did say, in reverse order, is that it scares me that he MIGHT play just good enough to not get benched and then we won't know how good BQ is on the field...
And I'm not claiming to be a victim... even though you started it. 
yebat' Putin
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1st String
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Vers, the cool part is the better QB is on the bench during this off season. IT'S THE OFF SEASON. I don't care what anyone in the Browns organization is saying at this time of year. I have no idea what will happen in the future and they know that things can change, and if they don't then they all need to move on. I don't honestly get the feeling that they are saying case closed on who the starter will be. With these guys you have to read between the lines and I have seen a lot of smoke and mirrors from Savage since he has been here. I also happen to believe that this is the season that they have to find out if Quinn is as good as advertised (of which I have very little doubt). You have even admitted this is not the Super Bowl year so huge decisions need to be made this season and Quinn sitting this year serves no purpose towards making huge decisions during the next off season. A Super Bowl run, which is one thing I'm sure you and I can agree on (probably the only thing) is the ultimate goal.
Last edited by Corpusdawg; 05/19/08 06:34 PM.
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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