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Draft keeps Steelers a leg up in AFC North By Vinnie Iyer - SportingNews Apr 30, 9:57 am EDT With their win-now mentality evident during an aggressive offseason, the Cleveland Browns are hoping they will be the fourth different winner of the AFC North in as many seasons. Unfortunately, the team they are trying to dethrone, the archrival Pittsburgh Steelers, remains the best in the division. The Steelers, as usual, didn’t break the bank to keep one of their key free agents—left guard Alan Faneca—or bring in marquee newcomers. That has been their M.O. throughout the salary-cap era; they’ve focused on building primarily through the draft. No one can argue with the results. The Browns, meanwhile, decided not to do much drafting this year. Starting with the deal in 2007 that netted quarterback Brady Quinn, and continuing with trades for defensive tackles Corey Williams and Shaun Rogers this year, Cleveland is putting all its eggs into getting into the playoffs in 2008. Going back to last weekend’s draft: The Steelers had picks in each of the first three rounds; the Browns had to wait until Sunday to make their first pick—in Round 4. The offseason isn’t quite over, but with March’s free-agent frenzy and April’s selection meeting in the books, the Steelers’ approach has won out again. A constant focus on the future keeps Pittsburgh above most of the conference, and in contention for big things. The organization has gotten into such a rhythm with the draft that it can recognize which holes will need filling in a few years and thus can avoid having to scramble to find replacements in one short offseason. Just look at some of their projected starters this season. Tight end Heath Miller, left guard Chris Kemoeatu, wide receiver Santonio Holmes, right tackle Willie Colon, inside linebacker Lawrence Timmons, outside linebacker LaMarr Woodley and punter Daniel Sepulveda were drafted over the three previous Aprils. Several other recent draftees are in place as key backups and future replacements. The Steelers have picked up just two notable veterans this offseason, but each is atop the depth chart. Former Panther Justin Hartwig is expected to start at center; former Viking Mewelde Moore will handle kick and punt return duties. Their biggest offseason move was locking up quarterback Ben Roethlisberger—a rare talent who plays the position that’s hardest to replace—to a lucrative long-term deal. Still, because they look ahead to add depth and the right-fitting players, the Steelers still have the best defense—both in terms of personnel and scheme—in the division. The Baltimore Ravens are behind in rebuilding their defense, and the Browns and the Cincinnati Bengals won’t immediately shoot up from the bottom tier despite their recent acquisitions. That brings us to what the Steelers did in the first two rounds of the most recent draft. The Browns pushed the pedal on offense last season, finding great balance with Derek Anderson’s passing and Jamal Lewis’ running. Now they’ve added speedster Donte’ Stallworth to their fine receiving corps. How did Pittsburgh respond? It grabbed a couple more offensive players who can help the team this year—running back Rashard Mendenhall and wide receiver Limas Sweed. Last season, the Steelers lacked their usual power-running ability, which hurt them in closing drives and games. The biggest reasons: so-so line play and the fact that Willie Parker is a speed back. Pittsburgh responded by throwing more in the red zone. The physical Mendenhall is an ideal complement to Parker, and giving the rookie 10 to 12 touches a game will keep Parker fresher and healthier. The Browns, on the other hand, didn’t get a young back; they’re counting on Lewis to somehow pound through another full load unscathed. That’s risky. Although the Steelers still adhere to the Bill Cowher approach of pounding the ball, offensive coordinator Bruce Arians has installed a more dynamic passing game. Holmes became a big-play threat last season, and Hines Ward shook off some early injuries to again be a red zone reception machine. Sweed reminds many of former Steeler Plaxico Burress with his 6-4, 210-pound frame, but in the short term he will add more pop as a huge target in three- and four-receiver sets. In other words, the Steelers matched the Browns’ addition of Stallworth. Let’s go back to the relevant Steelers-Browns matchup of a season ago—we can throw out Week 1 because Charlie Frye was Cleveland’s starting quarterback then. In Week 10, with the well-established Anderson as their leader, the Browns were outplayed statistically but lost by just 3 points, 31-28, on the road. Cleveland saw how far it had come, and it came out swinging in the offseason to close what not too long ago was a huge gap. The club certainly has improved and is much more confident than it was a year ago, but so are the Steelers under second-year coach Mike Tomlin. The Browns were closer than they appeared in the Steelers’ rearview mirror, so the Steelers stepped on it. It’s easy to keep the right distance when you’re always looking out for what’s well down the road. Vinnie Iyer is a staff writer for Sporting News. Email him at viyer@sportingnews.com. I found this story a little amusing. I guess the writer figures they can win without a line. The part I find the most interesting is where he ranks Sweed with Burress, and Mendenhall the rookie as aperfect compliment to Parker. Is Davenport chop liver?  Rothlisberger a "rare talent"? GMAB
As for our Browns,I guess he feels Wright and Harrison have no effect in the running game. At the same time he seems to overlook Lewis' 1300 yard season and calls him old. He also fails to mention our dominant Oline and unique depth at QB.
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The Browns were closer than they appeared in the Steelers’ rearview mirror, so the Steelers stepped on it. It’s easy to keep the right distance when you’re always looking out for what’s well down the road.
Steelers stepped on our progress? After reading this I realized this guy has no clue.
Anyway, just something to discuss in a slow period.
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I do think that they had a good draft in terms of acquiring the skilled positions...
However, it seems that teams who always focus on getting the flashy players without replacing the guys in the trenches never rise to the peak of the NFL. And don't we all know that...
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Funny, my take is that they did very little to maintain any perceived distance and I would (and did) say that with the talent we acquired this off season we have actually helped us to close the gap. Time will tell. And I can't wait! 
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I think you misinterpreted the "stepped on it" comment. Read it again. I do think this writer was too gung-ho in his praise of the Steelers, but I do have to say that I think the Steelers' way of doing things is smarter than what the Browns are doing. And I am speaking long-term. I compare it to those who charge everything to those who save and invest well. Yes, you may find some instant gratification by purchasing now and paying later, but believe me...............you usually pay way more later. I want to beat the Steelers more than anything, but they run their franchise a lot more like I would than the Browns run theirs. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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How does one team getting a wide receiver counteract us getting Stallworth? Is he going to switch to cornerback to cover Donte? Confusing bit of logic there.
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I also agree with the way the Steelers have built their team in the past, but I believe they have strayed. Long term in this situation is debatable, if you ask me. Their roster isn't filled with developing lineman the way it has been in the past. I would have to really question their depth at many key positions.
I live in the Pittsburgh area, and hear all the talk. Many of their own fans feel the same as I do. Their Oline is very thin at every position. Their Dline is an injury away from being the dominant force it can be. I can't see where their defensive backfield depth could be considered good. To me, and many of my Steeler fan friends, It looks like they are catering to Rothlisberger's wants, and putting the team squarely on his back. In the past, Pittsburgh was always about their defense.
The past few years, they have drafted more like the Browns have done, putting their picks into perimeter players instead of the trenches. Starks, seems to be their last lineman of value drafted, and he isn't that good.
As for what the Browns did this year, I questioned it a little myself. But I see Rodgers and Williams as young players who can be part of a longer term fix, not really a McGinest type stop gap fix.
The signing of Stallworth IMO was questionable, but I see how it can be effective. As for the draft picks, I think people need to realize that these guys are 4th rounders, and shouldn't act as if they are top prospects.
All in all, I think Savage took a gamble, but one with decent odds. Trading next years 3rd bothers me, but if the TE he brought in can spell K2 and be effective in his role, he could turn out to be a good investment for the future.
Like many say, to get one or two future starters from a draft is good. But if Bell turns out to be a player, and the TE fills the role I described above, I think the investment in the future is still there.
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Quote:
How does one team getting a wide receiver counteract us getting Stallworth? Is he going to switch to cornerback to cover Donte? Confusing bit of logic there.
My point exactly. The writer comes off more like a Steeler cheerleader than a reporter.
How does the drafting of a big back counteract our moves on the defensive line?
IMO, you could switch thye Browns and the Steelers in the story, and it would have made about the same amount of sense.
The Steelers drafted BPA. They admit to it. The problem, is that these players didn't fill needs. They addressed the Oline with signing a new center, Hartwig. But they lost Faneca, and they have a RT playing LT, and one weak gaurd left.
I look for Arians to continue to turn them into a pass first team. That's always been his M.O.
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The huge disparity created during the Carmen Policy and Butch Davis regimes left the franchise battered like a rusty bucket, barely able to hold water. The fact is, Savage had to do some incredibly creative deal making to make us competitive as quickly as he has. Now that there is far less disparity between the teams, he should be able to run the franchise with an eye toward the future and building for sustained strength. That we made it through this draft only needing to mortgage a 3rd and a 5th rounder speaks volumes toward that end, and we probably wouldn't have needed to give up the 3rd if Winslow hadn't wrecked his motorcycle. Admire the Steelers all you want, they do run their organization well, and you can also wish the Browns ran this organization like they do theirs, but you might as well first wish that we could time travel and prevent the hirings of Carmen Policy and Butch Davis so we wouldn't have been in this mess to begin with. JMHO
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Quote:
I do think that they had a good draft in terms of acquiring the skilled positions...
However, it seems that teams who always focus on getting the flashy players without replacing the guys in the trenches never rise to the peak of the NFL. And don't we all know that...
Interesting observation. I watched Tomlin answer a question he was posed on the NFL channel after the draft concerning the thin O-line and not drafting any high picks at that position.
His response was he believed their were two ways to protect a QB..One was the O-line and the other was to provide him more skill position players. Never heard a coach say that........It never worked for us 
"Just gotta Coach em up" , "I thought they Battled" , " I need to watch the tape"
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The fact that the Steelers did not address Oline is not a surprise to me....or to anyone who listened to Colbert and Tomlin say time and time again they felt good with the Oline.
I actually feel the Steelers are ok on the Oline.....I think they have depth from top to bottom...what they no longer have is an ALL STAR line...what they do have is a line like most teams in the NFL...some better than average players...some average players...some players that are slightly below league average and some guys that will get cut.
Marvel Smith, Max Starks, Kendall Simmons all started on a Super Bowl team
Chris Kemoeatu, and Willie Colon both played so well last preseason that IMO the team should have traded Faneca right then (as I was on record saying to any one who would listen) Colon won a starting spot and Kemoeatu almost did...I would have been completely satisfied with trading Faneca for a 3rd round pick and starting Kemo all year.
They hole....and it was, a hole was right up the Center....Mahan was not a good pickup....he could not handle the C spot...and he made both guards look bad in the process
I predicted on here as well as a few Steeler boards that the Steelers would draft 1 olinemen (Hills)...and they would sign one in FA.(Hartwig).....and thats exactly what they did...
After the run on T's in the first...Duane Brown(1st) and John Greco(3rd) where the next Tackles off the board.....the Steelers have starting G's (Simmons, Kemoeatu, even Mahan who looks to be better suited to G than C...Hartwig , and there has been a lot of talk of moving Colon to G where he is more suited to play).
Center is the only real question mark....will Hartwig be an upgrade over Mahan...will Stapleton step up at C....will Legursky make the roster...Can Simmons slide to C.
Faneca was not a good consistent player last year.....he would pull and lay a fantastic block...then he would whiff on let a guy run straight by him....the only Oline that was worse was Mahan....was it because of Mahan...only the coaching staff knows.
I think the Steelers will be ok on the line...they will not dominate as they have in the past....but they are still an above average Oline..
Now how they didnt get a DE at some point....well thats a totally different argument.
(Jerry Jones said in an interview that he had two offers for their 4th round pick...one from Cleveland...and one from Pitt...both offering a 3rd next year...and that he felt the Browns pick would be the better pick so he took their offer.....Had the Steelers been able to move they would have taken Dre Moore)
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Quote:
I want to beat the Steelers more than anything, but they run their franchise a lot more like I would than the Browns run theirs
building your team thru the draft is surely the way to go, and i believe that this will be what savage does down the road....
what savage has done is fill the holes left by crappy drafting, and put a good team on the field...this accomplishes a very important goal....
it gives him and rac the time needed to build thru the draft...
i honestly don't see the problem with what he's done because the cap is so high it doesn't matter at this point....all the fa's he's got will be here for 3-4 years....with the exeptions being ted and willie...those guys were stop-gap mentors imo...
i look for next year to be even less fa's and more drafted players....we only have so many roster spots...but we now have quality starters at all positions....gone are the days of a late round player making the team and starting, when they shouldn't be....
were still thin in some areas, but you can't fix it all overnight if you are gonna do it thru the draft....all you would be doing is drafting good players for the next coach and gm to build off of...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Quote:
I think you misinterpreted the "stepped on it" comment. Read it again.
I do think this writer was too gung-ho in his praise of the Steelers, but I do have to say that I think the Steelers' way of doing things is smarter than what the Browns are doing. And I am speaking long-term.
I compare it to those who charge everything to those who save and invest well. Yes, you may find some instant gratification by purchasing now and paying later, but believe me...............you usually pay way more later.
I want to beat the Steelers more than anything, but they run their franchise a lot more like I would than the Browns run theirs.
I definitely see where you're coming from and I agree, but I can also understand what Savage has been doing. He's been under a lot of pressure (especially a lot of fan pressure) to put together a winning team, and people wanted it fast.
Given what he had to work with after Botch left, it was going to be difficult. It does seem like this will pay off for now, but I'm hoping that now that our core has become much stronger since Savage first took over, we will be able to start drafting for the future and for core replacements.
JMHO.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I should clarify as well and say that I'm not too happy about trading the 3rd and 5th pick away. I actually preferred it more when we drafted in 2006 with the billion picks that we had.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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As Eminem would say... MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE... MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE... WILL PITTSBURGH'S DECENT OFFENSIVE LINEMEN PLEASE STAND UP, WILL PITTSBURGHS DECENT OFFENSIVE LINEMEN PLEASE STAND UP?... Were gonna have a problem here. No offensive line = no leg up. 
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Quote:
(Jerry Jones said in an interview that he had two offers for their 4th round pick...one from Cleveland...and one from Pitt...both offering a 3rd next year...and that he felt the Browns pick would be the better pick so he took their offer.....Had the Steelers been able to move they would have taken Dre Moore)
Isn't Jones the same guy that thought the Browns would be picking in the top 10 in 2008? How'd that work out 
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Quote:
Quote:
(Jerry Jones said in an interview that he had two offers for their 4th round pick...one from Cleveland...and one from Pitt...both offering a 3rd next year...and that he felt the Browns pick would be the better pick so he took their offer.....Had the Steelers been able to move they would have taken Dre Moore)
Isn't Jones the same guy that thought the Browns would be picking in the top 10 in 2008? How'd that work out
I did not say he was a genuis....Just passing along what was reportedly said 
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Touche
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Instead of getting all riled up because some nobody gave the Steelers' props over us for once (my how things have changed), how about some perspective from our very own Tony Grossi... Selections by other AFC North teams in 2008 NFL draft don't alter Cleveland Browns' standing in division Tuesday, April 29, 2008 Tony GrossiPlain Dealer Reporter Nothing happened on draft weekend to upset the balance of power in the AFC North. The Pittsburgh Steelers are the defending champions and the team to beat. The Browns are the top challengers to Pittsburgh's crown. The Baltimore Ravens are a team torn by a defense ready to win and an offense in major transition. The Cincinnati Bengals are a team that can descend in turmoil. Clearly, the Browns got out of the gate in the off-season quicker with the trades that cost them their first three choices. Their rivals played catch-up over the weekend. How did they do? The best development in this year's draft? How about the new time limits that cut the length of the first round in half. The worst? Possibly the decisions by the Rams and Falcons to pass on Glenn Dorsey. The Browns AFC North rivals in general had solid drafts, but still have some trouble spots on their rosters. CINCINNATI 10 picks Analysis: Three wide receivers? And they're not trading Chad Johnson? You can commend the hard-line stance taken by Bengals management against the disruptive Johnson, but the team would have been better served by accepting Washington's offer of first- and third-round picks for him and using them on defense. The only way the Bengals avoid a free-fall to the division cellar is if Johnson agrees to report on time, is a model teammate, plays with a chip on his shoulder and convinces coach Marvin Lewis to trade him after a Pro Bowl year. Actually, the Bengals' overall draft has drawn positive reviews. In No. 1 pick Keith Rivers, Lewis chose for the second year in a row a highly rated defensive player with impeccable character. Still, they have not offset their losses in free agency and are not the offensive juggernaut they once were. The picks: 1 (9) Keith Rivers, lb, Southern California; 2 (46) Jerome Simpson, wr, Coastal Carolina; 3 (77) Pat Sims, dt, Auburn; 3 (97) Andre Caldwell, wr, Florida; 4 (112) Anthony Collins, ot, Kansas; 5 (145) Jason Shirley, dt, Fresno State; 6 (177) Corey Lynch, db, Appalcahian State; 6 (207) Matt Sherry, te, Villanova; 7 (244) Angelo Craig, de, Cincinnati; 7 (246) Mario Urrutia, wr, Louisville. BALTIMORE 10 picks, plus trade for Oakland corner Fabian Washington Analysis: Thwarted in their attempt to trade for top-rated quarterback Matt Ryan, the Ravens settled for Joe Flacco of Delaware. Flacco has big size and a big arm. Sounds like Derek Anderson, right? But Anderson was a sixth-round pick who played against ma jor-college competition, and it took him three years to lead a team. Flacco was the 18th over all pick of the first round who competed against the likes of Hofstra, James Madison and Maine. By the time Flacco is ready to win -- not just play -- Ray Lewis, Ed Reed and other Ravens star defensive players may be sitting in the NFL Network studio chairs. The rest of the Ravens' draft was solid, filled with instant contributors on special teams. Ultimately, though, this draft will be judged on Flacco's NFL career and new coordinator Cam Cameron's ability to develop him quickly. The picks: 1 (18) Joe Flacco, qb, Delaware; 2 (55) Ray Rice, rb, Rutgers; 3 (71) Tavares Gooden, lb, Miami; 3 (86) Tom Zbikowski, db, Notre Dame; 3 (99) Oniel Cousins, ot, UTEP; 4 (106) Marcus Smith, wr, New Mexico; 4 (133) David Hale, ot, Weber State; 6 (206) Haruki Nakamura, db, Cincinnati; 7 (215) Justin Harper, wr, Virginia Tech; 7 (240) Allen Patrick, rb, Oklahoma. PITTSBURGH Seven picks Analysis: The Steelers loaded up with two physi cal offensive skill players in running back Rashard Mendenhall and receiver Limas Sweed. Each should make an impact as rookies. Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger will benefit from both. The pick of Oregon quarter back Dennis Dixon in the fifth round gives coordinator Bruce Arians a Kordell Stewart-type to continue the Steelers' modern tradition of offensive gimmickry. Third-round pick Bruce Davis is a classic 'tweener the Steelers historically have developed into 3-4 pass rushers. But they're still working on developing their top two picks from last year at the same position. The picks: 1 (23) Rashard Mendenhall, rb, Illinois; 2 (53) Limas Sweed, wr, Texas; 3 (88) Bruce Davis, lb, UCLA; 4 (130) Tony Hills, ot, Texas; 5 (156) Dennis Dixon, qb, Oregon; 6 (188) Mike Humpal, lb, Iowa; 6 (194) Ryan Mundy, db, West Virginia. pd
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It's been said over and over this off season that that Pitt doesn't have an Offensive line, or rather, that they have major offensive line issues but it doesn't add up. They were second in the league last year in passer rating. 3rd in rushing yards and average. They had over 300 yard more rushing than we had last year. You just don't end up with those numbers with a crap line.
Yea, Rothlesburger got hit a lot but he held onto the ball a lot longer last year. He doesn't have the full complement of quick outs and deep threats and he, unfortunately for him, had to let plays develop for 2 or 3 seconds longer last year than in their Super Bowl year. Plax and Randal El are gone. Sure Holmes looks good but Plax he aint. Rothletc got sacked 47 times but he still had 32 TD's. And they had a tougher schedule than us. You don't put up those numbers without AT LEAST a decent line.
Thier line "problem" is the envy of a lot of teams. We've come a long way in shoring up our disparity and our OL is now quite good. Our new DL might be the difference but until we beat them in the trenches, they're still the class of the AFC North.
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Quote:
[/And they had a tougher schedule than us. You don't put up those numbers without AT LEAST a decent line.
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A tougher schedule than us? What you smoking? Their schedule was almost equal to ours. The difference was we were the winning team they played, that made their schedule look harder percentage wise.
Besides the Browns, who exactly did they beat , not just last year, but the previous year also, who had a winning record?
People down DA's performance using the weak opponent excuse, but Ben played the same crappy defenses and is looked at as something special.
He threw more TD's, but he also was sacked more. Parker had a good year running against some pitiful defenses, but it is not mentioned.
As for being the class of the AFC north, I think the word "class" is a stretch. They are the "favorites", basically because they won the division last year, and a super bowl a few years back. But if I'm not mistaken, the division was won by three different teams over the past three years.
All I'm saying, is the playoffs proved how good they actually were last year. This writer is suggesting that theynare still an elite team. I beg to differ. They beat us and some of the teams we lost to, but we also beat some of the teams they lost to.
I know that until we beat them, they will be looked at as the better team, and I agree with that. But this writer is discounting all the Browns offseason moves based on not having draft picks. Then in the same breath, he is suggesting that the picks the Steelers made are automatically going to improve their team. They could, but they also could be disappointments. That is not a far fetched statement.
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Quote:
I do have to say that I think the Steelers' way of doing things is smarter than what the Browns are doing.
Sitting back and waiting to draft the BPA at your pick is always safe and considered "smart" by most, but not being creative or active enough to address team needs is not always the best way to go.
How many years have we sat here and thought by adding skill players on offense that it would somehow make up for our lack of talent on the OL? As optomistic as we tried to be it NEVER worked.
The Steelers have a 2nd rate OL that has had injury issues and no depth. Do you think if we had a $100 million dollar QB that Savage would have not performed some miracle this offseason and bolstered our OL? Do you think he would have sat back in this draft and accepted his draft positions and used the "we didn't want to reach at this pick" excuse to not address glaring holes on our team?
PS has worked extremely hard to turn this club around and to insinuate that a team who basically sat on their hands and took the lazy approach to this years draft is "smarter" is unfair. Hell, I could've made the Steelers draft choices the first day by just following along on ESPN's draft cast.
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This is just my opinion, Kirschke will be 34 and Keisel will be 30 while Smith had knee problems and eason struggled.
If any of your DL go down there is a major dropoff from these backups.
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Legend
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The huge disparity created during the Carmen Policy and Butch Davis regimes left the franchise battered like a rusty bucket, barely able to hold water. The fact is, Savage had to do some incredibly creative deal making to make us competitive as quickly as he has. Now that there is far less disparity between the teams, he should be able to run the franchise with an eye toward the future and building for sustained strength. That we made it through this draft only needing to mortgage a 3rd and a 5th rounder speaks volumes toward that end, and we probably wouldn't have needed to give up the 3rd if Winslow hadn't wrecked his motorcycle. Admire the Steelers all you want, they do run their organization well, and you can also wish the Browns ran this organization like they do theirs, but you might as well first wish that we could time travel and prevent the hirings of Carmen Policy and Butch Davis so we wouldn't have been in this mess to begin with. JMHO
I think this was a perfect response to Vers' concerns.
Sometimes you have to get creative. Sometimes you have to take a risk. I really believe Savage will now settle down a bit and start building/maintaining through the draft.
One thing that really irks me about the writers that have decided to take the 'Browns have mortgaged the future' stance is that Williams and Rogers both have many more years left. This team is being built for the long-term. I think the 'Savage is trying to get the Browns to win now' is also off-base. I don't think that's the case at all. I think Savage will be happy with another year of solid improvement.
Steelers are still the kings of the AFC North until they are not anymore. If we can knock them off this year, that would be a nice step in the right direction.
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Legend
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They were second in the league last year in passer rating.
That was last year.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
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The huge disparity created during the Carmen Policy and Butch Davis regimes left the franchise battered like a rusty bucket, barely able to hold water. The fact is, Savage had to do some incredibly creative deal making to make us competitive as quickly as he has. Now that there is far less disparity between the teams, he should be able to run the franchise with an eye toward the future and building for sustained strength. That we made it through this draft only needing to mortgage a 3rd and a 5th rounder speaks volumes toward that end, and we probably wouldn't have needed to give up the 3rd if Winslow hadn't wrecked his motorcycle. Admire the Steelers all you want, they do run their organization well, and you can also wish the Browns ran this organization like they do theirs, but you might as well first wish that we could time travel and prevent the hirings of Carmen Policy and Butch Davis so we wouldn't have been in this mess to begin with. JMHO
I think this was a perfect response to Vers' concerns.
Perhaps in your mind. *L*
I am not bad-mouthing Savage, so please don't feel the need to defend him. I'm simply saying it is smarter not to trade away the future picks.
I actually approve of the Williams trade, and I can at least see why they did the Rogers trade. I didn't like the BQ move when they made and I like it even less today. I also didn't like giving up a third next year for a TE. But, that's just me.
Btw...........blaming Butch, Policy, and Clark is getting a little bit ridiculous.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Legend
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Perhaps in your mind. *L*
And that's the only one that matters. *L*
Bottom line, if we hadn't made the moves we made, we'd be much further away from contention than we are now, including the Quinn move.
Now I think the time for making big splashes should be coming to a close. Savage should start settling down a bit and move into a build/maintain mode from here on out.
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Btw...........blaming Butch, Policy, and Clark is getting a little bit ridiculous.
What is ridiculous is ignoring it when making a point about Phil mortgaging the future. I do agree with you about trading away future picks, my point was that I believe we will be seeing less of it now that the team is in some kind of decent shape.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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In other words, the Steelers matched the Browns’ addition of Stallworth.
By drafting a 2nd round reciever with speed, health, seperation and concentration issues? Wow that really showed us! 
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Legend
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Silliness. They were lucky a bunch, and outside of us making em look like worldbeaters, they just play hard-nosed enough to win. We need a few more difference makers. Used to split a bunch when we played; lately, not the case. Hoping for a bit of crow pie for this pundit; stale attitude. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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What is ridiculous is ignoring it when making a point about Phil mortgaging the future.
I wasn't really talking to you, but my point is that that excuse is getting old. This is the fourth season for Savage and company. They've made nice progress and I'm happy in a general sense. But, I think it is a bit much to blame the past regimes for what we are doing this year and even last year.
It's time that this regime's moves stand all on their own.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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We're still paying for what Botch had done in the past. The guy made, what, 3 good draft picks? The only talent that is really on this team are mostly Phil's picks or guys that he brought in. We have to face it, we weren't very good AT ALL in 2005 when this team was taken over.
This team's talent has grown tremendously over the past 3 years, and maybe the most important aspect, players WANT to come to Cleveland now. They WANT to play for RAC and Phil. It was pretty rare to see names like we do now being brought in a few years back. So yes, Phil is still working over what Butch has done. And I think starting now, this is finally Phil's team. Now it's just a matter of tweeking the roster and resigning our guys. The roster has been turned over, and the old regime is finally gone completely.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Man..........sometimes the comprehension of some of you baffles me. I was talking about you can't blame Butch, Clark, and Policy for us trading away draft picks this year and maybe even last year. Sheesh.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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I'm simply saying it is smarter not to trade away the future picks.
Let´s look at it:
1st draft he didnt trade away any, right? same 2006, right? He even traded for some additional picks...so, the 1st 2 drafts Savage actually accumulated picks.....result? He had to find out that more picks doesn´t mean more quality but it was a good approach since we were rebuilding....and that´s what you do...build a base 1st
On to 2007...let´s look at all our picks in draft classes 2007 to 2009, ok?
Before the "trading away of future draft picks":
3x 1st
3x 2nd
...and so on...3x every round, right?
21 picks, actually 20 since the Fraley trade will be ok with about everyone on here
On to the math:
2007 draft:
traded 1st 2008 to trade up from high 2nd to low 1st for Quinn....effectively we lost 1 pick.....the #22ovr in 2008...here we lost the most value, no doubt...but we did it for a "franchise-QB" when we had not 1 and got him on the cheap and 1 year in advance...this move is still up in the air as we all know
traded 4th 2007 to move up from high 3rd to mid-2nd for CB Wright, normal trade, lost a high 4th effectively...and yes I do think Wright is worth a 3rd and a 4th...I would not trade him for that right now...and that´s only after his rookie season...think about it
so basically: we burned a low 1st, high 2nd, high 3rd and high 4th for Quinn and Wright
2008 draft:
2nd = C.Williams
3rd (+Bodden) = S.Rogers
now here´s the funny thing now:
we did not trade away ANY "future" picks from this draft...really, just this years 5th...we got the package of Bell, Rucker, Rubin and Hubbard (4 players) for 5 picks....undefined 3rd+5th, a low 4th, low 5th, low 6th....it´s value in my book, pretty good 1 if u ask me
So, in 3 drafts we effectively traded "future picks" of low 1st, high 4th and (edit:) low 5th
We got 8 players for 11 picks...in 3 drafts we traded "away" a sum of 3 draft picks and only 1 of them being a Top 100 selection....or 17 out of 20 possible picks (if we keep, as of now, the rest of 5 2009 picks)
those 8 players are: Quinn, Wright, C.Williams, Rogers, B.Bell, Rucker, Rubin and Hubbard
I actually like the more aggressive approach..and Im not talking short term here..imho it´s a better approach long term too....cause you go for value when you see it and think it´s worth it....the FO is just trusting their board more and I like it...I mean, if u rated Bell and Rucker as 2nd to 3rd rounders on your board, it´s the right thing to do to give away a 3rd, low 4th and low 5th for them...it´s great value
This approach is already paying dividends...our 2007 class already looks better than the 2 before, doesn´t it?
To sum it up: Savage probably didn´t have a good idea where the roster is at...new scouts, new group, communication wasn´t all that and rebuilding mode...so, he picked quantity to have a base in place
Now, since 2007 he´s aggressively going for quality when they see the value...imho it´s the right thing to do...and honestly I can´t see where we are "mortgaging" our future doing it....especially what we did this year: we just effectivly traded away a low 5th...that´s it...4 players, 5picks invested...Bell and Rubin are our 3rd and 5th rounders 2009, it´s that easy...what´s the problem with that? I actually like it since both have been considered Top 100 players in this draft
It´s all about value...and I agree...ok, enough 
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What is ridiculous is ignoring it when making a point about Phil mortgaging the future.
I wasn't really talking to you, but my point is that that excuse is getting old. This is the fourth season for Savage and company. They've made nice progress and I'm happy in a general sense. But, I think it is a bit much to blame the past regimes for what we are doing this year and even last year.
It's time that this regime's moves stand all on their own.
I know, your comment was a back door remark addressing my response to your post through a reply to another poster who quoted me. So although you weren't really talking to me, you were directly commenting on what I wrote so I felt like responding, even though a direct comment isn't necessarily needed to respond to a statement I don't agree with. It is after all a message board, open to uninvited opinion and comment unlike say, a private conversation. And it's not blame, it's reason. If you don't see it that way, fine. I wouldn't be the first time we failed to see eye to eye. How boring it would be if everyone always agreed on everything, though as I said, I agree with you in the sense that mortgaging future draft picks isn't usually desirable.
As to whether it's time for this regime's moves to stand on their own, they do, but context always play a part in those moves. For example, next year, year four of this regime, they will be making selections within the context of a complete team with few holes to fill or shore up, not as a team with little or no talent at virtually all positions, as they were in year one.
This isn't an attack, Vers, it's just an open exchange of ideas and opinions. Isn't it fun? 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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we did not trade away ANY "future" picks from this draft.
I thought we traded a third rounder in next year's draft for the TE we chose this year? Am I wrong about that?
Cal: What I meant is that I have seen that comment about past regimes multiple times. Therefore, I wasn't trying to single you out. I bought into that the first couple of years, but I think it's time--actually past time--to let that one go. It should not continue to be an excuse for every questionable move Savage makes.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Legend
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Legend
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I thought we traded a third rounder in next year's draft for the TE we chose this year? Am I wrong about that?
You're not wrong. We traded next years 3rd to take Rucker in the 4th (112 overall?) this year.
#gmstrong
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we did not trade away ANY "future" picks from this draft.
I thought we traded a third rounder in next year's draft for the TE we chose this year? Am I wrong about that?
Of course we did....but we didn´t burn any other picks to get him...it was 1 to 1. If we wouldn´t have selected Rucker this year we would have probably targeted a TE in rounds 2-4 next year....Rucker (or Bell) is our 2009 3rd rounder....we can argue about whether he´s worthy of a 3rd round pick....but we didn´t give up any picks to get him
The only "additional picks for players drafted" from 2007-2009 we really gave up were the #22ovr for Quinn, a high 4th for Wright and a low 5th for Bell (or Rucker)
We don´t have a 3rd and 5th next draft...but that´s because they will be already on the roster this season..the 3rd for Rucker (or Bell) and 5th for Rubin (or Hubbard)
I don´t have a problem with that, especially when you consider we invested more time scouting the players beyond the top 50 of this draft...if you grade them 1 round higher than you can get them for 1 pick only....you pull the trigger
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We don´t have a 3rd and 5th next draft...but that´s because they will be already on the roster this season..the 3rd for Rucker (or Bell) and 5th for Rubin (or Hubbard)
I don´t have a problem with that, especially when you consider we invested more time scouting the players beyond the top 50 of this draft...if you grade them 1 round higher than you can get them for 1 pick only....you pull the trigger
Ahhh. I see. You sound like my wife who comes home from shopping and telling me how much money she saved. I ask........how much did you spend. She continues to tell how much she spent on this item, that item, this item, etc. I continue to ask how much she spent. She finally tells me: "Nothing, I charged it all."
I suppose it is each to his own. I do have a problem w/that line of thinking. In fact, that was my original point. *L* I prefer not rob Peter to pay Paul. I prefer not to charge things and pay more for them later, which is exactly what they did w/BQ and Rucker. Hell, he's done that quite a few times now.
I am not bad-mouthing Savage, but I wish he would stop that practice. Obviously, there are some of you who think that is a wise move. Different philosophies, I guess.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Legend
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If Rucker and Hubbard pan out it was a good move. Just like every draft only time will tell.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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