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I know better than to ask the question. Hillary will not stop campaigning and I guess that is her right to continue...maybe even her responsibility!
I'm asking this to see how far you believe the game gets played out.
Could you foresee a real mess before, during and or after the convention this summer where LAWSUITS ARE FILED ON BEHALF OF THE CANDIDATES by their backers.
God this could be even better than the 2000 Pres. Mess involving Florida[of course...why is it always Florida]!
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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Sounds like Clinton is leading in Ind so far.
I personally think they will drag it out until the convention...
I don't understand (and never will) why some states vote so early... I'd love to see the percentage of people who would have voted differently a couple months later.
<><
#gmstrong
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Hillary is going to crush Obama in Indiana. Currently, as I type this, they are reporting that she is up by 14% (57 to 43). I expect that it will narrow, but not to the 4% that they expect (52 to 48). I think that she handily wins Indiana by at least 10% points.
As for North Carolina, Obama may win this because of the overall higher concentrations of blacks in North Carolina. He had the support of 92% of blacks to her 8%. While Obama is projected to win North Carolina (as I write this), I think it will be a very tight race.
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Quote:
I'd love to see the percentage of people who would have voted differently a couple months later.
Do you think that some voters would have "voter's remorse"?
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Why can't they set a date for EVERY state to vote? Why drag it out for 6 months or so? At this point in time people are voting for people that had the money to stay in the running.
Set up 1 day for every state to vote. (and no super delegates, what ever the hell they are).
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They do, it's called Election Day and occurs on the first Tuesday in November. 
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Quote:
They do, it's called Election Day and occurs on the first Tuesday in November.
Yeah, yeah.....you know what I meant. 
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Quote:
Sounds like Clinton is leading in Ind so far.
I personally think they will drag it out until the convention...
I don't understand (and never will) why some states vote so early... I'd love to see the percentage of people who would have voted differently a couple months later.
Because, in most normal years, the issue is decided by now, and votes in later voting states become mere formalities. (As the Republican side is currently) States that voted early, and especially those who moved primaries to an earlier date did so to increase the odds that their primary voters would be relavent.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Hillary is going to crush Obama in Indiana. Currently, as I type this, they are reporting that she is up by 14% (57 to 43). I expect that it will narrow, but not to the 4% that they expect (52 to 48). I think that she handily wins Indiana by at least 10% points.
As for North Carolina, Obama may win this because of the overall higher concentrations of blacks in North Carolina. He had the support of 92% of blacks to her 8%. While Obama is projected to win North Carolina (as I write this), I think it will be a very tight race.
Wanna stick by this? 
Obama was declared the winner in North Carolina as the polls closed. He is currently up by 14% and has been holding there for most of the night and 98% of the precincts are reporting.
In Indiana, 87% of the vote is in and Clinton is winning by 4%. However, that is without Lake and Monroe counties reporting right now. Monroe is the home of Indiana University and Bloomington, IN. It was expected to go toward Obama by about 55-45. The majority of the remaining vote comes from Lake County, a heavily African-American county, in the Chicago media market, and is expected to be around a 60-40 split for Obama. If he exceeds that 60-40 and can get to 63%, by my math he would take Indiana. This has been fascinating stuff, IMO, and a BIG night for Obama.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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I thought that NC would be closer, but I still expect that Hillary will take Indiana.
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The problem for Hillary is that she is running out of contests, and her chances of overtaking Obama in delegates is becoming more and more unlikely. She needs knockout wins, and her wins are all narrow. Given that she's not scoring knockouts, her (perceived) alternate strategy of courting superdelegates also becomes more unlikely. If she could say "I have won by huge margins in the areas where the Democrat nominee must win in order to win in November" ..... well then she might have a chance. As her areas of perceived strength become battlegrounds, her chances slip further and further away. While there is a chance that neither Obama nor Clinton would wind up with enough delegates to win the nomination .....and it goes to the convention ...... I think it would be politial suicide for the Democrats to dump the candidate with the most delegates. It would make for interesting TV though. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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She will have a couple of big wins coming up. The problem for her is that these are smaller population states. She won't be able to win the delegate race. She can't overtake him in popular vote unless she can get Florida and Michigan seated. If they give her the nod, it will cause a huge uproar nation wide. If Florida and Michigan aren't seated, it may cause voters in both states to vote for McCain. If McCain can win Michigan, he will probably win the election.
If McCain does win, the Democratic Party will have terrible in fighting. This election should have been a slam dunk for the Democrats. The Democrats themselves will be to blame for giving new life to the Republicans.
#gmstrong
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Current delegate count is:
Obama 1815
Clinton 1672
The nominee needs to win 2025 delegates.
There are 374 in the remaining contests.
Clinton needs almost every one of them to win the nomination outright.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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She can't win on raw votes...not on pledged delegates either...superdelegates
will not in big numbers announce for Hillary when Obama is the undisputed frontrunner.
My question is whether her ego...or Bill's ego would cause her to somehow tie up our courts in a last ditch effort to wrest away the nomination from Obama???? Before you say NO! think about the Clinton's history.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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I think it goes until 5/20. She wins West Virginia next week. Then on May 20 she gets a win in Kentucky and loses in Oregon. It allows her to back out after a win, looking like a grand gesture when realistically she's lost all chance with last night. Plus, after 5/20, you have Puerto Rico (which she'll win) but lose in South Dakota and Montana. May 20 is her last chance to go out with looking good while doing it.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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"May 20 is her last chance to go out with looking good while doing it."
Logdawg Hillary does not have it in her makeup to let this go. She isn't well liked by many people...respected by more and feared by many. Her concern about looking gracious in defeat is a non starter for her.
My guess is that she goes bitterly to the end with Lanny Davis and her other cronies trying to fight the battles in various court settings.
If she is denied her way...she will immediately go about reorganizing for 2012. Does anyone believe that she would be above sabotaging Obama's first term in some major fashion? Not me...she is great at being bad!
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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Quote:
Quote:
Sounds like Clinton is leading in Ind so far.
I personally think they will drag it out until the convention...
I don't understand (and never will) why some states vote so early... I'd love to see the percentage of people who would have voted differently a couple months later.
Because, in most normal years, the issue is decided by now, and votes in later voting states become mere formalities. (As the Republican side is currently) States that voted early, and especially those who moved primaries to an earlier date did so to increase the odds that their primary voters would be relavent.
But had all states had the primaries at the same time, then these later states would have more than 2 candidates to choose from. Much like the earlier states votes were divided up between several candidates, where had they only had 2 to vote for the numbers could have been different for either side. Not to mention that the 2 leading candidates could be different if there were more to choose from later in the game.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I'm confused by all of this..
OK,, at the start of the day, Obama was ahead on Electorail votes and super delegates,,
Yesterday, he creamed Clinton in NC, but she barely edged him out in Indiana.
So at the end of the day yesterday, wasn't Obamas lead widened somewhat?
For the moment, I don't care which candidate you like, but doesn't it seem stupid for both to continue this fight.. I mean the only thing it seems to be hurting is the Democratic party.
Obama has a big war chest and Clinton is almost out of money again (or so it's reported).. Doesn't that tell the whole story..
Correct me if I'm wrong there, but Obama's money is coming from regular folks, not lobbyists.. In fact, My understanding is that he won't accept money from corporations or lobbys of any kind.. ( I could be mistaken about that) Doesn't that mean he won't be beholding to any of them?
Where is Clintons money (or lack thereof ) coming from. I know she lent her campaign 5 million a couple of months back.
Anyway, my point is, with Clinton Trailing Obama by whatever margin coupled with a lack of funds that Clinton seems to be experiencing, isn't it time for her to walk away?
Or do I have this all screwed up somehow?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hill won't walk away until it's absolutley clear the race is over.....and then she'll probably wait it out for a while longer just to screw with Obama anyway. Most likely, neither will have the official total to gain the nomination so both will be going to the convention.
This will drag out to the very last second. We still have a very long way to go.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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She is pushing for the super delegates which could give her the nomination.
She and some others have to feel she stands a better chance of winning the national election.
This probably won't be played out until the convention and at least from her perspective have to hope Obama"s former pastor continues to come to their rescue.
She must feel there is one last pile of dirt she can find under the carpet that she doesn't want to uncover until it is too late for Obama's camp to repair the damage.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Isn't it possible that she just genuinely feels that she can still win and that her plans are what is best for the country and that she feels she owes this last push of effort to her supporters to not give up until it's mathematically impossible for her to win because she promised them she would keep fighting for them and their families and the future of the world? I can't believe I got through that with a straight face.
yebat' Putin
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That was sickening. Please stop.
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I can't believe you got through it without puking 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
I can't believe I got through that with a straight face.
I didn't. Now... you wanna come here and wipe the coffee off my monitor? I mean, it is your fault, after all....
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Quote:
Hill won't walk away until it's absolutley clear the race is over.....and then she'll probably wait it out for a while longer just to screw with Obama anyway.
I have no doubt that she will do just that.. and if the Dems lose the election in Nov, they can and should point to her as a contributing factor.
One of them has to take a step down.. Since Obama has the money and more Super Delegates,, I'd suggest it be Clinton.. But like you said, I don't think she'll do that..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hillary is into her own pocket for somewhere around $6.5 million. She's fundraising as much as running at this point.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Hillary is into her own pocket for somewhere around $6.5 million. She's fundraising as much as running at this point.
So maybe she's just trying to recoup her investment then maybe? I'm asking, is that what you are saying? If so, that actually makes a good deal of sense to me..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think that a part of it is ego ..... that she just simply cannot lose ....... and then also realization that if it is over, she needs to (at least) recoup her financial losses.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You never know what skeleton will step out of Obama's closet.
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On MSNBC's coverage last night, Chris Matthews was reporting that there were preliminary talks about Clinton stepping away from the campaign after Puerto Rico in exchange for Obama paying off all of her campaign's debts, which are apparently quite significant.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Hell, if that's true, he raised more then enough money to pay her. I know I would personally pay a great amount of money to see her leave. 
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Quote:
... in exchange for Obama paying off all of her campaign's debts, which are apparently quite significant.
And she wants us to elect her to manage the nations money? 
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The numbers that are being thrown around are that the campaign is roughly $21 million in debt, plus the $11.4 million that was borrowed from the Clinton fortune.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Quote:
The numbers that are being thrown around are that the campaign is roughly $21 million in debt, plus the $11.4 million that was borrowed from the Clinton fortune.
Hence why we will never get an average Joe who knows what it is like to earn a paycheck into office, you pretty much need to have alot of money to get started.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Hillary and or Bill can raise 20-50 million dollars in book deals whenever they choose...this is now ultra personal.
Hillary fights on in the campaign with the last primaries...rallies in the states she won and with the superdelegates[you know the delegates who are more equal than other delegates].
Does anyone believe that she would hesitate to take this to the courts to prolong the race???? These are lawyers ...remember...this is who they are.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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I like the Back to the Future 2 solution ... where we abolish all lawyers. 
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Quote:
On MSNBC's coverage last night, Chris Matthews was reporting that there were preliminary talks about Clinton stepping away from the campaign after Puerto Rico in exchange for Obama paying off all of her campaign's debts, which are apparently quite significant.
loga...I heard that talks are on going concerning the possibility of the deal mentioned above, plus a deal to help heal the voters of the two sides.
That makes good sense, to try to heal the party and consolidate the voters behind one candidate, the winner, which looks to be Obama. Mathematically, it's nearly impossible for Hillary to win and she and Bill are not dummies, they know the reality of the situation, regardless of how many within the GOP want the race to continue.
One report said, watch for her tone...whether she stops attacking Obama, especially on a personal level. Watch to see if she talks about issues the two agree on. Also, listen to the tone of her surrogates to see if they tone it down and stop attacking Obama.
It does not mean she will stop her campaign immediately, but will support him and attempt to get her people behind him.
Look for an agreement on Michigan and Florida delegates being seated at the convention.
Many Super delegates and party oldtimes are talking to both sides, wanting the party to come together. As of now, it's more about healing the democratic party, knowing the outcome is clear now.
There are "rumors" of an Obama/Hillary ticket being discussed in some circles. It could be true but personally, I don't see it....mac
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Quote:
I don't see it
I don't see it either, especially with the way things have worked out.
Had Hillery had the upper hand at this point, I could see Obama as a possible VP candidate.....but not this way. Obama would have to be a idiot to take a VP who's husband is a ex President.
I don't think that would work very well.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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And one other comment why I think she is running this fight this deep in to the process.
She wants to position herself front runner for 12 if Obama loses the general election. That way she and her supporters can say "I told you so", that Obama would have a hard time on a national scale, that she would have been the better choice.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I can't see her in that role, but I could easily see a Clinton-person in that role. Actually, Wes Clark would balance the ticket perfectly, IMO. A Clinton person, general, foreign policy experience, Bronze Star winner, Catholic, similar stance to Obama on Iraq, etc. He seems like a nice choice to try and bring people together, IMO.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum If Obama wins in Indiana and N.C.
today will Hillary ......
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