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13 hours ago DES MOINES, Iowa — A federal immigration raid at a kosher meatpacking plant in northeast Iowa was the largest such operation in U.S. history, with nearly 400 people arrested, federal officials said Tuesday. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials said at least 390 people were arrested on immigration charges as part of a raid Monday morning at Agriprocessors Inc. in Postville. The plant had about 900 workers before the raid. Most of the 314 men and 76 women arrested are from Guatemala and Mexico, but some were from Ukraine and Israel. "Based on the number of ... arrests, this is the largest single site operation of its kind ever in the United States," said ICE spokesman Tim Counts. The raid followed a months-long investigation into Agriprocessors, the largest kosher slaughterhouse in the world. ICE officials would not comment on whether company officials could face criminal charges. Telephone messages left with Agriprocessors on Tuesday were not returned. Of those initially arrested, officials said 56 were released on humanitarian grounds, typically because their arrest would leave a child with no custodian. A handful were released because of medical conditions. Men were being held at temporary housing at the National Cattle Congress Fairgrounds in Waterloo, where they are expected to be processed by Wednesday night and moved to other locations by Thursday. Women are being held at the Hardin County jail. The American Civil Liberties Union of Iowa condemned the raids in a statement Tuesday. "It appears that detainees are not receiving adequate time to meet with their lawyers, and that defense attorneys are being overwhelmed by requests to represent far more clients than is advisable — or perhaps even ethical," said Ben Stone, the group's president. "We are concerned that the sheer size of this raid is likely to result in numerous violations of the U.S. Constitution, which protects the due process rights of all persons in this country." Counts said those arrested had and would have adequate time to meet with their attorneys. Everyone arrested Monday has been charged with immigration violations. So far 20 of them also have been arrested on a variety of criminal charges, including aggravated identity theft and false use of Social Security numbers, said Bob Teig, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office. Those facing criminal charges began appearing Tuesday afternoon in a makeshift federal court at the Cattle Congress grounds in Waterloo, said U.S. Attorney Matt M. Dummermuth. Anyone detained on a criminal charge will be placed in the custody of the U.S. Marshals Service. People charged only with immigration violations will remain in ICE custody before going through removal proceedings, including a hearing before an immigration judge. Those hearings will take place throughout the country, Counts said, depending on space. According to a search warrant application and affadavit dated May 9, federal officials relied on a variety of sources, including former employees and at least one undercover source who wore a wire and became an employee of the plant at ICE's request. According to the search warrant application, the undercover source said that some employees were paid with cash, and that those workers wore specially colored work hats to denote their status. Other employees were paid with checks that did not bear Agriprocessors' name. Sources in the warrant application also said they saw what appeared to be underage workers at the plant. According to the company's Web site, Agriprocessors was founded in 1987 by the Rubashkim family. The company's kosher and non-kosher products are found in many national supermarket chains. http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20080514/Immigration.Raid/
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Why am I getting that kooky "War on Drugs" feeling about this? Like we are going to continue seeing just enough articles like this so that they can say "We're doing something about it", but the reality is that it is far too little, far too late.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I heard everyone was armed w/ M&Ms.  And I agree, Prpl, it sounds like an election time stunt to me.
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Quote:
"We are concerned that the sheer size of this raid is likely to result in numerous violations of the U.S. Constitution, which protects the due process rights of all persons in this country."
pssstttt Hey idiot, they shouldn't have any rights 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
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"We are concerned that the sheer size of this raid is likely to result in numerous violations of the U.S. Constitution, which protects the due process rights of all persons in this country."
pssstttt Hey idiot, they shouldn't have any rights
Ding Ding Ding.. We have a winner!
You are 10000% correct GM.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.) ![[Linked Image from i87.photobucket.com]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/brownsfan4173/NFL-Football.jpg)
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Quote:
Why am I getting that kooky "War on Drugs" feeling about this? Like we are going to continue seeing just enough articles like this so that they can say "We're doing something about it", but the reality is that it is far too little, far too late.
I honestly feel they "know" that the war on drugs is a lost cause. But now it's simply down to "keeping it funded" not "winning it".
Rollin', rollin' rollin'. Keep those dollars rollin' Rawhide! Get em' up move' em' out!
Last edited by PitDAWG; 05/14/08 01:13 PM.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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If they were to fine Agriprocessors $5,000 per illegal employee, that would make me feel like maybe they are serious.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
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"We are concerned that the sheer size of this raid is likely to result in numerous violations of the U.S. Constitution, which protects the due process rights of all persons in this country."
pssstttt Hey idiot, they shouldn't have any rights
Ding Ding Ding.. We have a winner!
You are 10000% correct GM.
I don't understand how you can say that and claim to be a patriot. You took an oath to defend the constitution, yet you blatantly spit on it.
Your ideas about rights of criminal defendants fall right in line with Al Queda, Hamas, and Sadaam Hussein. disgusting.
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Quote:
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"We are concerned that the sheer size of this raid is likely to result in numerous violations of the U.S. Constitution, which protects the due process rights of all persons in this country."
pssstttt Hey idiot, they shouldn't have any rights
Ding Ding Ding.. We have a winner!
You are 10000% correct GM.
I don't understand how you can say that and claim to be a patriot. You took an oath to defend the constitution, yet you blatantly spit on it.
Your ideas about rights of criminal defendants fall right in line with Al Queda, Hamas, and Sadaam Hussein. disgusting.
Tell me, why should an illegal person in this country get the rights of the consitituion?
They are not US Citizens, so they do not get the same rights. Are you from the ACLU?
Last edited by Thebigbaddawg; 05/14/08 03:31 PM.
you had a good run Hank.
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Just for my own education, where in the constitution does it give due process rights to illegal immigrants?
yebat' Putin
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If they were to fine Agriprocessors $5,000 per illegal employee, that would make me feel like maybe they are serious.
I'm not going to tie you into my opinion, as I suspect you don't share it, but this is the first badmouth of the employers themselves. It's mind-boggling to me how we get up in arms about someone breaking the law to earn a pittance of a living and completely ignore the people that broke the law to maximize an already large profit.
Illegals have their good apples and their bad apples...but I can assure you that they aren't the problem. If everyone abided to minimum wage laws and proper procedure, there wouldn't be any jobs for them to come across the border for. Minimum wage laws, however, aren't really condusive with the free market ideology...hence, you have the byproduct of undocumented immigrant workers.
Poor, destitute people being practically called over to the great and prosperous America with a bullhorn by various employers, and we think the problem is with them and not the bullhorn carriers.
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Please show me where the Constitution defends illegal immigrants and affords them the right to counsel...or anything else. I'll be waiting. The only one that "spits" on the Constitution is those like you who try to pervert it and the spirit in which it was written. Gee, Pit, no kudos for gathering up the illegals. Why am I not surprised? 
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It must be in the part where they used invisable ink 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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So, to recap, once again. Americans are bad and the poor ILLEGALs are victimes.
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Just for my own education, where in the constitution does it give due process rights to illegal immigrants?
yes it does. the constitution differentiates between the rights of "persons" which is everybody, and the rights of citizens.
So it's not in invisible ink, as some have mentioned, and the supreme court agrees. They do not have the same rights as citizens, it is less. but they still have them. The creators of this nation believed that there were certain human rights that we all possess, regardless of where we come from. They were concerned about protecting noncitizens as well as citizens, because they themselves experienced opression from a government that treated people differently based on class and region.
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So, to recap, once again. Americans are bad and the poor ILLEGALs are victimes.
Does the school you coach at offer reading comprehension courses? 
In a free market economy sense. there are no victims. The company wins because they pay low labor, the immigrants win because they get paid, and the consumer wins because production costs are down.
In my opinion, there are victims, and they are the American citizens and society who helped to build these companies, who now get the shaft because said companies are turning on them to make a buck.
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Fifth amendment:
No PERSON shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Last edited by jobenincasa; 05/14/08 04:11 PM.
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LOL, you are funnier than Pit.
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We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Sorry, this is the fourth, the last one was the fifth.
The right of the PEOPLE to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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No, I don't think that is what he is saying... I more or less agree with what he was saying... if I was unfortunate enough to be born in a country with no good economy and I had no way of bettering myself or supporting my family, I'd be tempted to go to greener pastures too, even if it meant breaking the law. It's not that Americans are bad... but corporations who hire these illegals and make tons of money on them are as bad, if not more so, as the illegals themselves... so we can say we're fighting illegals, but you and I both know there are 390 more waiting at the door of Agriprocessors right now hoping for a job. You don't destroy an ant colony by tracking down all 3,000,000 ants and stepping on them one at a time, you destroy it by killing the queen.... and in this case, the queen is the corporations that hire these illegals. If you don't get harsh with them, the ants will keep coming back. Humanitarian Disclaimer: I'm not comparing Mexicans to ants or other insects to minimize them as human beings. It's just a darn analogy.
yebat' Putin
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The sixth:
In all criminal prosecutions, the ACCUSED shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
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Parts of Article IV of the Constitution
Section 2. The CITIZENS of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of CITIZENS in the several states.
A PERSON charged in any state with treason, felony, or other crime, who shall flee from justice, and be found in another state, shall on demand of the executive authority of the state from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the state having jurisdiction of the crime.
No PERSON held to service or labor in one state, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due.
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What about the 14th?
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
yebat' Putin
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and the granddaddy of them all, the 14th amendment:
Amendment XIV
Section 1. All PERSONS born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are CITIZENS of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of CITIZENS of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any PERSON of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any PERSON within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male INHABITANTS of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and CITIZENS of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male CITIZENS shall bear to the whole number of male CITIZENS twenty-one years of age in such state.
Section 3. No PERSON shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
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So Mr. Navy and GM, does that satisfy you that your opinions on the rights of illegal immigrants are against the U.S.Constitution? Don't forget what you fought for. It was freedom from oppression, democracy, and human rights. Let's not disgrace your service and the sacrifice of many by attack the constitution ourselves.
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Too bad you highlighted the wrong words. That's how you pervert the Constitution to your own beliefs instead of the spirit of the Constitution....
The "PERSON" was actually defined in same sentence, but you chose to ignore that. Funny how you pick and choose small parts.
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Please show me where the Constitution defends illegal immigrants and affords them the right to counsel...or anything else. I'll be waiting. The only one that "spits" on the Constitution is those like you who try to pervert it and the spirit in which it was written.
Gee, Pit, no kudos for gathering up the illegals. Why am I not surprised?
Sorry to not include you coach. Do us all a favor and do a little research before you write idiotic statements.
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LOL, try a reading and comprehension class before you try to interpret the Constitution to fit your needs and make "idiotic" statements. I expect nothing less of you. Thankfully all that read this board knows your agenda and your left wing crap is just that....crap.
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Too bad you highlighted the wrong words. That's how you pervert the Constitution to your own beliefs instead of the spirit of the Constitution....
The "PERSON" was actually defined in same sentence, but you chose to ignore that. Funny how you pick and choose small parts.
I just highlighted every instance of it, i didn't pick and choose anything.
Funny how you think I'm perverting the constitution to my own beliefs when I'm just regurgitating what 200 years of the US Supreme Court has held as the law of the land. 
I understand you're defensive because you're wrong, but it's alright. Man up, admit it, and change your argument to one that espouses amending the constituion regarding illegal immigrant rights. Your position can be as ignorant as it always was. At least use the right facts though. 
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Dude, I wasn't trying to make your point, why do you keep capitalizing CITIZEN like it helps you make your point? They are NOT citizens.... here, read it this way: Section 1. All persons BORN OR NATURALIZED IN THE UNITED STATES, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are CITIZENS (you got that one right...  ) OF THE UNITED STATES and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES; nor shall any state deprive any PERSON (this one is the key.. is the reference to a person to any person or a continuation of the definition of a CITIZEN from above?) of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any PERSON within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Or we could use the preamble... WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and SECURE THE BLESSING OF LIBERTY TO OURSELVES and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. So we the people of the United States, establish all of those things for OURSELVES.... hmmmmmm 
yebat' Putin
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LOL, try a reading and comprehension class before you try to interpret the Constitution to fit your needs and make "idiotic" statements. I expect nothing less of you. Thankfully all that read this board knows your agenda and your left wing crap is just that....crap.
Thanks for the personal insults. You have now proven you are right.
The classes I took were in law school. The titles were "Constituional Law I" "Constitutional Law II" "Constutional Criminal Procedure" and "Constitutional History." Which classes did you take?
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Dude, I wasn't trying to make your point, why do you keep capitalizing CITIZEN like it helps you make your point? They are NOT citizens.... here, read it this way:
Section 1. All persons BORN OR NATURALIZED IN THE UNITED STATES, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are CITIZENS (you got that one right... ) OF THE UNITED STATES and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES; nor shall any state deprive any PERSON (this one is the key.. is the reference to a person to any person or a continuation of the definition of a CITIZEN from above?) of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any PERSON within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Or we could use the preamble...
WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and SECURE THE BLESSING OF LIBERTY TO OURSELVES and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
So we the people of the United States, establish all of those things for OURSELVES.... hmmmmmm
I appreciate your interpretation. Those are questions the US Supreme court asked as well, and the answers they came to are the ones I repeated to you all in these posts. It's not my interpretation, it's the Supreme Court's.
and like i said, I highlighted Citizen and Person because I wanted to show which rights are preserved to Citizens and which are preserved for everyone.
Again, not my opinion, it's just the law. Push for a change if you don't agree. It'll take an amendment or a drastic turnaround by the Supreme Court.
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Do Illegal Immigrants Have Constitutional Rights I made a comment taking exception to another author's claim that illegal immigrants have no rights. I suggested that it is important to distinguish between constitutional rights and privileges reserved to citizens. The responses to my comment indicate that a great many people do not know what their constitutionally protected rights are. The following comes from http://www.slate.com/id/1008367/"……..the Bill of Rights applies to everyone, even illegal immigrants. So an immigrant, legal or illegal, prosecuted under the criminal code has the right to due process, a speedy and public trial, and other rights protected by the Fifth and Sixth Amendments. This fact sheet from the National Lawyers Guild outlines a host of rights afforded to immigrants and citizens alike. (There are a few rights reserved for citizens. Among them are the right to vote, the right to hold most federal jobs, and the right to run for political office.)" The following is taken from National Lawyers Guild website: http://www.nlg.org/resources/kyr/kyr_english.htmI. What rights do I have? Whether or not you're a citizen, you have these constitutional rights: The Right to Remain Silent. The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution gives every person the right not to answer questions asked by a police officer or government agent. The Right to be Free from "Unreasonable Searches and Seizures". The Fourth Amendment is supposed to protect your privacy. Without a warrant, police or government agents may not search your home or office without your consent, and you have the right to refuse to let them in. They can enter and search without a warrant in an emergency. New laws have expanded the government's authority to conduct surveillance. It is possible that your e-mail, cell and other telephone calls, and conversations in your home, office, car or meeting place are being monitored without your knowledge. The Right to Advocate for Change. The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects the rights of groups and individuals who advocate changes in laws, government practices, and even the form of government. However, the INS can target non-citizens for deportation because of their First Amendment activities, as long as it could deport them for other reasons. Note the italics of the last statement. We are all aware that INS is not actively pursuing every illegal immigrant in this country but clearly they can single out individuals who are engaged in exercising their rights. The legal protections afforded by the constitution do not apply to simple deportation proceedings. Once again from http://www.slate.com/id/1008367/But immigration proceedings are matters of administrative law, not criminal law. (As a result, the consequence of violating your immigration status is not jail but deportation.) And Congress has nearly full authority to regulate immigration without interference from the courts. Because immigration is considered a matter of national security and foreign policy, the Supreme Court has long held that immigration law is largely immune from judicial review. Congress can make rules for immigrants that would be unacceptable if applied to citizens. In conclusion, while in this country, illegal immigrants are covered by all the rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. Exercising those rights may subject them to deportation because of their alien status. Additional laws apply if the illegal immigrant is suspected of being a terrorist but that is not the subject I am attempting to address. When illegal entry is treated as a matter of criminal law, instead of being expelled through an administrative proceeding, those accused have the right to a jury trial and all the rules of evidence apply. The government is burdened with "proof beyond a reasonable doubt." Imagine the cost and the caseload. http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976743890
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Thanks for the personal insults.
Need a mirror? Read through this thread and it's YOU throwing out most of the personal insults.
I do wonder when reading most of your arguments how much time you spent awake in law school.
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Thanks Florida.
Everybody satisfied now?
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Joined: Sep 2006
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I'm not a constitutional scholar and if you took those classes, then I will assume you know more about it than me... my point was never to imprison them for long periods or flog them for execute them, my point was to return them to their own country expeditiously (which I believe IS within the law)... then go after the company that hired them...
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367 |
Exactly. Somebody is real quick to make assumptions.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum 390 arrested in immigration raid
in Iowa
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