|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Damn fine post.  Now if the readers would let that sink in we could talk football.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
And the more I think about it, the more the '2-headed QB' situation worries me. One thing you cannot discount is that we are entering unchartered waters for this team and this staff. The expectations have never been higher, and the schedule has never been tougher. What if we stumble out of the gate at 0-2? How will the players and more importantly, the coaches react? RAC is a 'steady Eddy', but he's never had this pressure before. Ever.
We don't have a two headed QB situation. We have a designated starter and a highly skilled back-up. It's not the same thing. A two headed QB situation is a situation like Gruden likes to subject his team and fans to sometimes or as sometimes happens in Chicago or like the failed slash experiment in Pit, or as has happend recently in Washington, where a coach will switch QB's practically on a whim because there is no one effectively running the offense. That's not the case here. It simply isn't. The starter has been named, the only people that don't realize that are the ones that refuse to hear it, and many of those people happen to write for the media while others are simply fans with opinions. Whether because of agenda or will-o'-the-wisp type loyalty it doesn't really matter, the fact remains, DA is the starter.
When you talk about uncharted waters in reference to coming off a winning season and higher expectations, I have to shake my head. What position would you have us in? Would it be better to have gone 7-9 or 8-8 so as to ease into the season and our playoff hunt? Maybe our young colts wouldn't be so skittish and RAC and wouldn't bemoan the fact that now he has to live up to fan expectations? Come on dude, that's just more hand wringing. Who cares about expectations, they are only that. So what? Expect all you want, you get what you get. The schedule is tough and we have to play every game, but those team have to play us as well. Not the old Browns, not a Browns team coming off a .500 season, but a 10-6 team that should, by all rights, have made the playoffs but for a poor performance by the Colts, or a poorly called game by Chud or a couple errant passes or a score or that should have never been allowed. Pick your poison but the point is, the games have to be played. Everyone in our division has to play them, and ironically, we have the "easiest" schedule of all of them. So what if we come out of the gate at 0-2, we still have the chance to go 14-2 or 9-7 which could win the division given that schedule. I'm not worried about RAC handling the pressure of an 0-2 start, if that happens. Not in the least.
Quote:
What's going to happen to DA's psyche when everytime he makes a mistakes, the dumbass fans start chanting Quinn's name?
I'm just chewing on this, and the more I think about it, the more I don't like it. I like DA, and I like Quinn, but I wish we had an established starter in place. Someone who is the unquestioned leader of the team even when they are playing poorly. We both know that the fans and media will do everything in their power to get Quinn in there if DA isn't playing well.
The only way I see this as a non-issue is if DA plays lights out right out of the gate. We have a tough schedule with two difficult opponents to open with, and that will be expecting a lot.
I don't know what will happen when everytime he makes a mistakes, the dumbass fans start chanting Quinn's name. I'm not certain it will happen. I seriously doubt it will get to that point. It would take a major breakdown of not only DA, but of the system, the O-line, the receivers and the running game as well for it to get to the point where that happens, IMO. I think you're describing a situation where DA would have to perform like Charlie did in the game opener last season for three or more games. I don't see it happening.
You say you wish we had a established starter in place. I say you're not listening or paying attention. Everyone, and I mean everyone within the organization has declared their support for the established starter. You make it sound as if there is some question as to DAs ability to recover from poor play, like there isn't with BQ. How quickly would the fans and the media be reaming RAC if he started Quinn and he struggled. They would be crying for DA to be brought back so fast it's not funny and all the Quinn love would disappear like a fart in a windstorm.
You talk about an unquestioned leadership even if the QB isn't playing well and you go on to say that you went back and re-watched some of the games... did you happen to notice the team struggle early on in many of them, only to come on and win it in the end, playing lights out as the games went on? What do you want from a leader exactly? He has led the team and has proven he can lead the team through controversy by orchestrating several spectacular come from behind wins. Bottom line though, it's a team effort and takes play calling and play making at the other end of the pass. If DA isn't playing well it's most likely a team problem. It takes a line, planning, deception, execution, concentration, etc. etc. and would probably take an injury or a blow to the head before you would seriously be able to lay poor play at his feet alone. Yes, he does make mistakes, but he is not a poor player. That he has proven time and again last season.
This whole BQ/DA thing is silly to me, silly beyond description partially because DA has proven he can drive the bus. And that's what it is, he doesn't have to be the engine, the wheels, the drive train and the brakes, he just has to be the driver. Chud has installed a system for him to succeed, for the team to succeed, and for BQ to succeed if DA goes down or by some extreme sequence of events, falters beyond repair. But BQ is going to come in and run the same offense, with the same weapons. I don't see how fans or the media can seriously expect him to have a better run than a 10-5 record, go undefeated at home, throw for 3800 yds, 29 TD with only 19 INTs and take us to the brink of a divisional championship and the playoffs. I mean seriously, come on. To paraphrase Ripley, have football IQs suddenly dropped?
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,760 Likes: 400
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,760 Likes: 400 |
You threw a lot of darts, and I don't think you hit the board once. You might want to go out and get some stuff to patch up your walls. I don't know if the football IQ has dropped, but the reading comprehension continues to be at an all-time low on this board. At least you used several paragraphs this time so I didn't have to read that drivel 5 times. Quote:
We don't have a two headed QB situation.
You can change the label if you'd like, but the FO has said they are not sure who the LONG TERM answer is at QB. If they haven't said it directly, they've stated it with their actions. You seriously don't get that? You don't believe that could present some sort of problem as we move throughout the season? This has the potential to be a huge distraction to the team. I am not saying that it will, but you seem to be completely dismissing it. Not sure how you can completely dismiss it by citing the reasons that you did. The only teams that have the luxury of not having to worry about a situation like this are the ones that have an established LONG TERM starter.
Quote:
The starter has been named, the only people that don't realize that are the ones that refuse to hear it, and many of those people happen to write for the media while others are simply fans with opinions. Whether because of agenda or will-o'-the-wisp type loyalty it doesn't really matter, the fact remains, DA is the starter.
No, I think people hear it loud and clear. So what. It's May. And don't try to make it sound like I'm lobbying for one or the other. My opinion on both QBs has been stated many times and very coherently, particularly as it relates to DA.
Quote:
When you talk about uncharted waters in reference to coming off a winning season and higher expectations, I have to shake my head. What position would you have us in? Would it be better to have gone 7-9 or 8-8 so as to ease into the season and our playoff hunt? Maybe our young colts wouldn't be so skittish and RAC and wouldn't bemoan the fact that now he has to live up to fan expectations? Come on dude, that's just more hand wringing.
Hand wringing? WTH does that even mean? OK, what I stated about unchartered waters and expectations has no merit at all. You got me on that one. WTH was I thinking? *L*
Hey, since you can tell the future, why don't you just go ahead and tell us how the season will turn out? The difference between you and I is that I am merely painting a picture of a possible scenario. I am not claiming that it will definitely happen, and I am not pretending that it is anything other than a thought of mine and a concern. And I don't state opinions as fact. You want to exchange ideas and thoughts and opinions, that's cool with me. But don't come back with the crap that you did like it's fact.
Quote:
You say you wish we had a established starter in place. I say you're not listening or paying attention.
Answer this for me: Who will be our starting QB next year?
Quote:
You talk about an unquestioned leadership even if the QB isn't playing well and you go on to say that you went back and re-watched some of the games... did you happen to notice the team struggle early on in many of them, only to come on and win it in the end, playing lights out as the games went on? What do you want from a leader exactly?
And the hits just keep on coming.
Please show me where I questioned DA's leadership ability specifically.
Once again, people reading and not comprehending the words.
You finished up your last paragraph defending DA to me. Once again, you're reading, but you are not comprehending if you felt that was necessary (and you obviously did). *L* ... such is life on this board sometimes...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
You threw a lot of darts, and I don't think you hit the board once. You might want to go out and get some stuff to patch up your walls. I don't know if the football IQ has dropped, but the reading comprehension continues to be at an all-time low on this board. At least you used several paragraphs this time so I didn't have to read that drivel 5 times.
Quote:
We don't have a two headed QB situation.
You can change the label if you'd like, but the FO has said they are not sure who the LONG TERM answer is at QB. If they haven't said it directly, they've stated it with their actions. You seriously don't get that? You don't believe that could present some sort of problem as we move throughout the season? This has the potential to be a huge distraction to the team. I am not saying that it will, but you seem to be completely dismissing it. Not sure how you can completely dismiss it by citing the reasons that you did. The only teams that have the luxury of not having to worry about a situation like this are the ones that have an established LONG TERM starter.
You said, "And the more I think about it, the more the '2-headed QB' situation worries me. One thing you cannot discount is that we are entering unchartered waters for this team and this staff. The expectations have never been higher, and the schedule has never been tougher. What if we stumble out of the gate at 0-2?"
Call it drivel, call it whatever you want. And I'm not changing any label, this is your label and you weren't taking long term starter, you were referring specifically to this season. Potential to be a distraction? Everything has the potential to be a distraction, that doesn't mean it will be. So yes, if that is dismissing it, I am. Wholeheartedly. Regarding your references to reading comprehension, you may want to try reading your own posts before casting stones.
Quote:
The starter has been named, the only people that don't realize that are the ones that refuse to hear it, and many of those people happen to write for the media while others are simply fans with opinions. Whether because of agenda or will-o'-the-wisp type loyalty it doesn't really matter, the fact remains, DA is the starter.
Quote:
No, I think people hear it loud and clear. So what. It's May. And don't try to make it sound like I'm lobbying for one or the other. My opinion on both QBs has been stated many times and very coherently, particularly as it relates to DA.
I wasn't trying to make it sound like anything, I believed you were attempting to make a point that there is question as to the starter, I was making the point I don't believe there is in anyone's mind other than some of the fans and media. If you don't agree I don't care. Many people don't agree with this, that's why it seems to be an issue.
Quote:
When you talk about uncharted waters in reference to coming off a winning season and higher expectations, I have to shake my head. What position would you have us in? Would it be better to have gone 7-9 or 8-8 so as to ease into the season and our playoff hunt? Maybe our young colts wouldn't be so skittish and RAC and wouldn't bemoan the fact that now he has to live up to fan expectations? Come on dude, that's just more hand wringing.
Quote:
Hand wringing? WTH does that even mean? OK, what I stated about unchartered waters and expectations has no merit at all. You got me on that one. WTH was I thinking? *L*
"...the '2-headed QB' situation worries me. ...we are entering unchartered waters for this team... ...expectations have never been higher, and the schedule has never been tougher. What if we stumble out of the gate at 0-2? How will the players and more importantly, the coaches react?"
These are examples of hand-wringing, just to clarify.
Quote:
Hey, since you can tell the future, why don't you just go ahead and tell us how the season will turn out?
No need for that nonsense. I never claimed to be able to tell the future. But your what ifs? What if the world ends tomorrow?
Quote:
The difference between you and I is that I am merely painting a picture of a possible scenario. I am not claiming that it will definitely happen, and I am not pretending that it is anything other than a thought of mine and a concern. And I don't state opinions as fact. You want to exchange ideas and thoughts and opinions, that's cool with me. But don't come back with the crap that you did like it's fact.
I didn't realize there was such a difference between opinion and ideas & thoughts. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to where the line blurs. And come back with the crap I did like it's fact? I don't even know what you mean or what you're referring to. Again, perhaps you can enlighten me.
Quote:
You say you wish we had a established starter in place. I say you're not listening or paying attention.
Quote:
Answer this for me: Who will be our starting QB next year?
I wasn't talking about next year, and frankly, neither were you. Adding LONG TERM in caps to your last post doesn't change that fact. Sorry.
Quote:
You talk about an unquestioned leadership even if the QB isn't playing well and you go on to say that you went back and re-watched some of the games... did you happen to notice the team struggle early on in many of them, only to come on and win it in the end, playing lights out as the games went on? What do you want from a leader exactly?
Quote:
And the hits just keep on coming.
Please show me where I questioned DA's leadership ability specifically.
Uh, right here where you say: "I wish we had an established starter in place. Someone who is the unquestioned leader of the team even when they are playing poorly.
Just because you don't think DA is the established starter doesn't make it untrue. Ergo, you questioned his leadership ability specifically. If that wasn't your intent, perhaps choose your words more carefully next time.
Quote:
Once again, people reading and not comprehending the words.
My reading comprehension is just fine, I would argue that the issue may lie with your ability to clearly express your thoughts in writing.
Quote:
You finished up your last paragraph defending DA to me. Once again, you're reading, but you are not comprehending if you felt that was necessary (and you obviously did). *L* ... such is life on this board sometimes...
I wasn't defending anything. I was stating my opinion regarding the silliness of the entire situation, and it wasn't necessarily directed specifically at you. I did so by pointing out DA's excellent performance last season as example, not defending that performance. There is a difference. So I would say that you may be the one having difficulty comprehending.
I, like you I'm sure, only want the best for the team, regardless of the QB situation. I just happen to disagree that postulating contrived hypotheticals serves any purpose.
Incidentally, your veiled barbs do nothing to help make your points. Frankly, they mean nothing and only get in the way of what you're trying to say. I took me a while to learn that, but it is something I've been actively working on. May I suggest you try it as well?
And now I'm all pissed off because the Cavs just lost... Crap. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,971 Likes: 1359
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,971 Likes: 1359 |
Quote:
Look, one proven fact - DA is a stud in practice...he showed it last year in OTA's and he continued to show it during the season as well as the Pro-Bowl. I doubt he will succomb to any pressure and change that prowess he shows in practice.
I will agree with you there with one minor acception.
And that is his practicing during pre season. Not saing you're wrong there.......................but
From my understanding and what was communicated to us by our FO, was the reason that the QB competition continued for so long, was that they saw on "real seperation between the two QB's".
So that would lead me to believe that one of two things were happenning at that time IF you are correct about your assertions in that regard.
Either both CF and DA were playing "lights out in practice" or, neither were really outstanding and it was a difficult in choosing "which was the greatest".
So I agree with you as to DA being a really good "practice QB" with the acception of that one area of concern that you had eluded to in your earlier post. When "the pressure is on".
Once DA became the "named starter", there is a certain level of comfort there. Charlie took a flight to the west coast, you have a rookie hold out who probably only knows about half the playbook as your back-up, so with that said, your comfort level should be just about as good as one's can get I would think.
And as for the pro bowl, once again, as an alternate, you can pretty well understand that "you'll get your reps like the rest" and that's about it from a purely "practice standpoint". It's not like you're fighting for a starting QB spot. Hence somewhat of a less stressfull practice situation.
So I believe it boils down to this. If DA feels confident and comfortable that BQ has "no shot" of unseating him as the starter, I believe the evidence dictates that I would see no reason he wouldn't look good both in practice and his pre season performances.
If on the other hand he feels threatened and that his starting job could be at risk, I'm not so sure it won't have some impact. It's just an opinion, but that is based on how he looked last year when competing for the starting position.
I would base that opinion upon the fact that our FO saw very little seperation in Frye and DA in practice last year. And the fact that I consider how well he deals with pressure and adversity as one of my biggest concerns with DA.
Quote:
Pre-Season games...he's only going to get 2-3 series the first two games...the rest will be BQ's time and then Dorsey in Mop up.
With one exception...the 3rd pre-season game, he will get to play the first half. Which btw will be against the Lions - the worst D we will face. Then just a series in the last game.
If DA looks flat it will be explained that he just didn't get enough reps to get into the flow...an excuse and the truth all in one. For DA to actually lose the starting job it will be next to impossible.
Once again I do believe that if DA sees his starting position as a "given", he will perform well in those first two pre season games and should perform well against a poor Lions D.
I also believe that if DA "feels the heat" from a strong possibility of some if not many sources. Some of those "possible contributing factors" might or might not add pressure to DA........
Quinn looking better in practice with the first team.
DA having a poor outing in the first pre season game and Quinn looking much sharper with the first team when coming in.
Media questions and pressure.
Fan pressure.
There are more that might or might not serve to add pressure on DA. I think the jury is out on that. So if we see the DA that played when he was "quite secure at his position" instead of the DA we saw in pre season last year and towards the end of the season and pro bowl when his future stock value and the playoffs were on the line? I'm not so sure.
I understand that DA "is" our named starter. But I seriously believe that our FO will start which ever of these two guys they feel will give us the best potential to win.
And I also base my opinion on the "business end" of the equasion. I've heard people clammer about , "Well do you honestly believe that they would have given DA that much money to sit on the bench?" I feel that to be a fairly laughable point.
Because on the flip side, do you think they would have risked losing DA by not offering him a long term contract in the first place if they were "sold on him"? You see, I'm of the opinion that they offered him what they did because they're NOT "sold on him". So I believe that you don't offer a QB you feel "secure with" a three year deal and that anything is possible.
I believe if we consistantly see BQ outplay DA and show more diversity in regards to scrambling, throwing on the run and accuracy, that DA may not be as hard to "dethrone" as you believe he will be.
I'm not discounting the possibility of what you're saying as playing out just as you have described. However, I don't think there is a "script" for how this process will play out in either direction. It could just as well be that Quinn still has work to be done and DA simply outshines him.
I just feel trying to "predict what happens during the process" may be a bit pre mature.
JMHO
Quote:
And excuse me for being so defensive but that is from my environment of posting the last few months.
Oh, no problem. Can't say I blame you. In fact, at times I resemble that remark.
Quote:
If DA is our Guy...so be it. But I want to be 100% sure. Tough media pressure will be a good litmus test.
Yes and I feel other "pressures" may or may not come into play as well.
I feel that watching how the playing time with the first team during the pre season games may or may not be "changed up" could be our best indactor of exactly "how things are going" and how each QB produces with the first team during that time. But once again, that's just my take on things.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,811 Likes: 634
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,811 Likes: 634 |
Good Lord,
I can officially say that IMHO, this is the worst QB controversy I've witnessed in Cleveland.
Yeah, I said it.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
Quote:
Good Lord,
I can officially say that IMHO, this is the worst QB controversy I've witnessed in Cleveland.
Yeah, I said it.
There is no controversy. Derek Anderson is the starter.
A controversy exists when the people running the organization do not know who the starter is for whatever reason.
And.....thus far......this is nothing (fans/media) compared to the Couch/Holcomb crap.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445 |
Quote:
I believed you were attempting to make a point that there is question as to the starter, I was making the point I don't believe there is in anyone's mind other than some of the fans and media.
That's EXACTLY what this will be...A Fan & Media driven problem...
It WON'T be a problem with the team tho...And Savage & Crennel are playing this PERFECTLY...And the way they're playing it is the exact reason why it won't be a team problem...
OUR 2008 STARTING QB IS ANDERSON...
The team knows it...They don't give a damn what the Fan & media think about it...All is well INSIDE...Savage & Crennel field media driven questions about considering Quinn to replace Anderson...And that's IF Anderson struggles at any point...The answer will be "Quinn is 1 play away"...Just as it's always been...TEAM STILL HAPPY...Correct answer even tho the media and fan still won't be satisfied...TEAM STILL HAPPY...
NO CONTROVERSY...
Then comes the good stuff...Cause this will only HAPPEN ONE TIME...Anderson's not playing lights out or even decently...We see Quinn as being ready and playing well in practice time...Possibly pre-season if this is the timeline it occurs...WE MAKE THE CHANGE...
NO CONTROVERSY...Cause when it happens their ain't no turnin' back and the FO and Coaching Staff KNOW IT...That's why this might just go into the season...Still NO CONTROVERSY...Quinn's named the new starter...Because we deemed a change was necessary...
TEAM HAPPY...And always has been because of the fact that we never came out and said their's a QB COMPETITION FROM DAY ONE...Opening the QB spot to competition and playing musical QB's during the season is the SURE FIRE way to CREATE A QB CONTROVERSY WITHIN THE TEAM...And that ain't gonna happen here...
Smart Smart Move...
Go Browns!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
POST DELETED
Last edited by Referee1; 05/19/08 09:21 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Hey Rish...........You know I like and respect you, but I think Cal made a solid post there.
Btw..........Cal, you have made some real good posts lately. I don't always agree w/everything you say, but your posts have been well thought out and insightful.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
Hey Rish...........You know I like and respect you, but I think Cal made a solid post there.
Btw..........Cal, you have made some real good posts lately. I don't always agree w/everything you say, but your posts have been well thought out and insightful.
Trying to use my brain more and my ego less. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Wise strategy. Anyway.........just wanted to let you know I noticed. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,760 Likes: 400
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,760 Likes: 400 |
*sigh*
If you don't think that having some uncertainty surrounding who our long-term answer at QB is could potentially lead to some problems this year, then I would say you are being naive.
I don't think the FO has done anything wrong at all. I don't think DA has done anything wrong, and I don't think Quinn has done anything wrong. It would be my preference if we already had it figured out. And we don't. You may think we do, but I don't. Cause if we did, Anderson would have either signed a bigger contract, one of the guys would have been traded, and Quinn wouldn't be giving interviews saying he is fighting to be the starter.
I'll say it again. I believe what appears to be a good situation could come back to bite us in the butt. I also don't believe it could have been avoided. You don't have any reservations about it ... ok ... but I do. That's essentially what it boils down to.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Okay, talking long term, I'll lay out what I think about that because I can tell you are dying to know. I think that the three year contract Phil signed with DA is a strategic move on several levels, designed to accomplish a few things. One, it locks him in for a time period conducive to bringing BQ along at a reasonable pace. Two, it allows the team to go into the season with no controversy regarding who the starter will be, (as a one year contract would not). Three, it leaves open the possibility for trade compensation down the road, should that prove to be desirable and advantageous for the team. And four, it sends a clear message that the starting position will be turned over to Brady when the time is right, whether handed to him, earned through performance (say next year or the year after even) or given out of necessity, (through injury, trade or whatever,) which a longer term contract would not do. So, while this may leave some perceived uncertainly as to who ultimately will be the long term answer, I don't think that to be the case, nor do I feel that particular issue is relevant to the near-term success of the team. And while I'm pretty damn sure BQ is and was drafted to become the long term starter, his ultimate success is far from guaranteed. I do firmly believe he is and will be a good QB, feel he's a great back-up right now for our team and feel he is more than capable of stepping in and running the O at a moments notice should that become necessary. Exactly the way this situation was designed, IMO, and from that perspective, I don't feel the long term solution is neither the question mark nor divisive situation that you may feel it is. Also to note it again, as I know you're aware, 62 QBs started last season and this fact, along with our brutal schedule is readily apparent to Savage and by extension everyone else. I am virtually certain this weighed heavily on the decisions made to go into the season with the ability to field a QB with no drop off should DA go down. I consider this excellent strategic planning. As far as Quinn giving interviews to the effect that he is "fighting to be the starter", I would ask are you sure he has not said that he is "preparing" to be the starter? It really doesn't matter though because it shouldn't be any other way. He should be preparing to start because he may need to on any given play. I've always taken his statements to mean that he is giving 100% effort to prepare in the best way possible to get ready for the season. He, DA, Dorsey all sit in the same room and prepare week to week and I've never once gotten the impression that there was anything but support from and for each of them. I don't and a haven't ever interpreted the situation as detrimental in any way. If that makes me naive, then ignorance is bliss. I understand your concerns, I just don't share them or care to fuel them by conceding to your point that they could potentially lead to problems this year because I don't see the need. I have enjoyed the discussion though.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 Likes: 147
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 Likes: 147 |
Quote:
Quote:
All I can say is this is gonna be GOOD...
By GOOD, I hope you mean BAD.
This whole situation could be the downfall of the team this year. We have stability just about everywhere on this team, including the FO, except for this position.
Anderson is going to be under a microscope, and I think it will affect his play. This whole situation could mean the difference between success and failure his year.
The only way the QB situation becomes a downfall to the team, is if DA struggles for several games, and RAC hesitates to pull him. Or DA is playing so-so, and then gets injured and Quinn lights it up, then when DA is healed he re-enters and plays so-so again.
Otherwise, I think the players will stand behind either QB as long as he is the one on the field, and the QB isn't doing anything to hold the team back from winning.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
What I think Rishuz is trying to say, and I agree with this point of it, is that in Indy there is Peyton Manning, in NE there is Tom Brady, in Dallas there is Tony Romo, in Pittsburgh there is Big Ben. On those teams, and a few others, they have one quarterback. Here in Cleveland, we don't have that.
In Cleveland we have two QB's. One has done well enough to deservedly be the incumbent starter, while the other was drafted as the future franchise QB.
That is quite different than the QB situation of the teams mentioned above. And although it seems to be agreeable with everyone that handling the QB situation in the way the Browns have done so far is the best scenario for the team at this moment, we still find ourselves with the "two-headed" QB situation.
One day, likely in the near future, we will have what those other teams have which will be one QB on the roster who is the undisputed leader of the team, with no other in the wings as a possible competition to that, and a viable backup who has virtually no chance of taking over that starting role barring injury.
Once we reach that status there will be no QB threads on this board, no media speculations nor fans with opinions on which QB should win the starting role. That is something those teams mentioned above do not have at all. There may be QB talk among their fans, there is likely discussions of the positive and negative talk regarding their QB, but their reality is that there is no other option for them or is their team looking for one. Their QB is entrenched and eveyone knows it.
Until we reach the status of the teams mentioned above we will have the "two-headed" QB discussions on who is the best option for our team. It cannot be avoided until one of them is gone. At long last, at that point, we will have what Butch Davis termed as "clairty at the quarterback position".
As it is right now we do not have that. We seem to have "clairity in the plan", but not clairity at the postition yet.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,338 Likes: 254
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,338 Likes: 254 |
As EO would say, "There's not one shread of football talk in this post." I find it quite humorous how things change so quickly on here. I got blasted for bring up some of DA's faults when we were winning, and got blasted again when I stood up for the guy when I thought he was being unfairly judged. Vers comes back and starts ripping posters, and all of a sudden there opinions seem to change (Ammo). The thing is, just below the surface real opinions leak out when stories like this one are written. This debate will never end unless DA completely falls on his face. Even then, some might say it's because we pulled the plug too soon. I'm starting to agree with the poster who said we should trade both DA and Quinn for a ton of draft picks. We all can then agree that are QB (Dorsey) sucks. That is except for HurricaneDawg, he is having Ken's baby. Sorry Hurricane, I couldn't resist.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
I agree with your assessment except for this:
Look, one proven fact - DA is a stud in practice
He wasn't when he was competing with Frye..the coaches kept saying Frye had a leg up..
They wanted him to outdistance CF but he never did in practice..
As I said before they'll give DA a chance to prove it but it's on him..
UNLIKE those who think he doesn't have a lot to improve on he really does..
And most of it is of the decision making and accuracy areas..nothing new ..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
"From my understanding and what was communicated to us by our FO, was the reason that the QB competition continued for so long, was that they saw on "real seperation between the two QB's".
That NON-Separation was in their Pre-season Game output.
There really was no competition...the coaches and staff felt that DA was the guy and created the "Competition" to justify their annointing of DA as the QB...interim QB until BQ was ready. They also knew that one of the two would have to go after BQ took over the reigns and they felt DA was the guy who would be the Franchise Backup for us.
But all throughout OTA's and camps there were mumblings and leaks of one standing above the two...words like Chud has edged towards one QB on being able to do more with his play book...I immediately thought this was Frye thinking that Chud had an entire Chapter of Roll Outs and options and Frye threw very well on the run. I later found out all that talk was about DA.
As for nobody winning the job outright...that had nothing to do with practices...the coaches knew Frye was not a practice player...never was. They loved what they saw from DA but he never brought that to the Game Field in Pre-season...but thats why the "Competition" dragged on and on...even after naming Frye as the Game 1 starter...it was clearly stated that the Competition was not over. Trust me when coaches make a competition they sort of have a winner in mind. Similar to Civil Servant jobs (at least in NY lol  ) the test is just for so n so's cousin to take and pass. If they do horrible - they throw those test away and create another one..until their choice gets the job! Nowhere I'm trying to imply the Competition was rigged...I implying the staff felt DA was the guy and needed the competition to justify it but it sort of backfired when DA couldn't duplicate his "PRACTICES" onto the game field.
But what you sited was true just had nothing to do with DA in practice...he always impressed in practice!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,338 Likes: 254
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,338 Likes: 254 |
Quote:
But what you sited was true just had nothing to do with DA in practice...he always impressed in practice!
I don't remember it that way. I went to a limited amout of practices last year, so I can't base an opinion on that. I think I remember news accounts of him not looking very sharp in training camp. He did look good in OTA's and Pro Bowl practices. I'm just not sure if your take on training camp ia accurate.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,971 Likes: 1359
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,971 Likes: 1359 |
I believe that if DA had "outshined" CF so much, it would not have been a competition. I do however agree that with "all things being equal", that Chud would prefer DA over CF. Reasoning? He is a pocket QB with a strong arm. Which would be far more conducive to the type of offense he is running. So if "all things were equal", I could see DA getting the nod. Yet still, even with CF not being "prototypical" for Chud's O, he still got the nod. Why, if they were "so close" in pre season games, and DA "outshined CF" in practice, would CF have gotten the starting job to begin with? 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
A coin flip.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
What I think Rishuz is trying to say, and I agree with this point of it, is that in Indy there is Peyton Manning, in NE there is Tom Brady, in Dallas there is Tony Romo, in Pittsburgh there is Big Ben. On those teams, and a few others, they have one quarterback. Here in Cleveland, we don't have that.
In Cleveland we have two QB's. One has done well enough to deservedly be the incumbent starter, while the other was drafted as the future franchise QB.
That is quite different than the QB situation of the teams mentioned above. And although it seems to be agreeable with everyone that handling the QB situation in the way the Browns have done so far is the best scenario for the team at this moment, we still find ourselves with the "two-headed" QB situation.
One day, likely in the near future, we will have what those other teams have which will be one QB on the roster who is the undisputed leader of the team, with no other in the wings as a possible competition to that, and a viable backup who has virtually no chance of taking over that starting role barring injury.
Once we reach that status there will be no QB threads on this board, no media speculations nor fans with opinions on which QB should win the starting role. That is something those teams mentioned above do not have at all. There may be QB talk among their fans, there is likely discussions of the positive and negative talk regarding their QB, but their reality is that there is no other option for them or is their team looking for one. Their QB is entrenched and eveyone knows it.
Until we reach the status of the teams mentioned above we will have the "two-headed" QB discussions on who is the best option for our team. It cannot be avoided until one of them is gone. At long last, at that point, we will have what Butch Davis termed as "clairty at the quarterback position".
As it is right now we do not have that. We seem to have "clairity in the plan", but not clairity at the postition yet.
Clearly the situation is different in Indy, NE, Pit, Cincy, Tenn, Dallas, etc, because of an established starter over time. Whether it's better or not remains to be seen and could potentially be argued, though time will really only bear out the answer good or bad. Part of the reason it's different is because DA only has a year under his belt, part of the reason is that by all appearances, BQ is the intended QB of the future.
Two-headed-Quarterback situations, I believe, are situations like I stated before where the teams don't have a clear cut starter and the coaches flip-flop the QBs in an attempt to get their offense working or to work it under different scenarios. That's my definition anyway and I'm sticking to it.
Our particular situation is unique because of the ability to field a back-up with quality skills. We've all heard it bandied about that it takes two QBs to win in this league though teams rarely have two with comparable skills. This combined with the notion that BQ is the intended QB of the future, in my view, is the basis for the Two-headed-QB argument. Take either one of our QBs out of the equation, substitute a veteran on the downside of his career and we're not having this discussion. Personally, I would rather be in the situation we are in.
We'll reach the status of those other the teams you mention when we start competing in the AFC Championship. Personally, I feel our situation as it stands gives us a better than most chance of getting there.
You used the term "undisputed starter" and I know what you mean so I won't insult you by arguing semantics, but I will say that I don't think, at least going into this season, that it is undisputed except as I've pointed out in the minds of some fans and in the media. There's a nice article on the home page about BE that addresses just that in part.
In a league continually in flux that loves to play follow the leader, I think it's possible we may be experiencing a scenario that may not prove that uncommon down the road, one where having two young talents is as common as having a veteran and a young back-up or a young starter and a veteran back-up. Just a possibility. It's also possible, in my view, that should we have a good season, we go into next season under the same situation. I'm obviously not certain about that but it does seem possible to me. Beyond that, who knows.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,760 Likes: 400
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,760 Likes: 400 |
I'm not trying to come after you again just because we've been bickering in this thread, but I do need to point out a couple of things that you said that made no sense to me. You say this: Quote:
Clearly the situation is different in Indy, NE, Pit, Cincy, Tenn, Dallas, etc, because of an established starter over time.
Then follow it with this:
Quote:
Whether it's better or not remains to be seen and could potentially be argued,
Exactly how has it turned out for those teams you mentioned?
And then there is this:
Quote:
There's a nice article on the home page about BE that addresses just that in part.
No one is disputing that DA is the starter going into camp. No one.
But this might be my favorite:
Quote:
In a league continually in flux that loves to play follow the leader, I think it's possible we may be experiencing a scenario that may not prove that uncommon down the road, one where having two young talents is as common as having a veteran and a young back-up or a young starter and a veteran back-up. Just a possibility. It's also possible, in my view, that should we have a good season, we go into next season under the same situation. I'm obviously not certain about that but it does seem possible to me. Beyond that, who knows.
You can see this as a possibility ... a situation that has rarely, if ever, happened or materialized in the NFL ... yet you can't see the possibilty that not being clear on who the long-term starter is could end up hurting us more than helping us.
It seems you just want to argue for argument's sake.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
You say this:
Quote:
Clearly the situation is different in Indy, NE, Pit, Cincy, Tenn, Dallas, etc, because of an established starter over time.
Then follow it with this:
Quote:
Whether it's better or not remains to be seen and could potentially be argued,
Exactly how has it turned out for those teams you mentioned?
I mean that if their starters go down, those teams are in trouble. Colts against Titans comes to mind. I also meant that it could potentially be argued at some future point after time when our system has had a chance to prove or disprove itself. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Quote:
And then there is this:
Quote:
There's a nice article on the home page about BE that addresses just that in part.
No one is disputing that DA is the starter going into camp. No one.
You've quoted this out of context. I was making the point that there was an article on the home page where a team member discusses this point, not that anyone was disputing it. Perhaps you are the one who enjoys arguing for argument sake. Those who smelt it dealt it. Nah-na-na-na-nah. I'm not sure what you're going for here. Incidentally, I wasn't arguing with ddub, just discussing and responding to his post.
Quote:
But this might be my favorite:
Quote:
In a league continually in flux that loves to play follow the leader, I think it's possible we may be experiencing a scenario that may not prove that uncommon down the road, one where having two young talents is as common as having a veteran and a young back-up or a young starter and a veteran back-up. Just a possibility. It's also possible, in my view, that should we have a good season, we go into next season under the same situation. I'm obviously not certain about that but it does seem possible to me. Beyond that, who knows.
You can see this as a possibility ... a situation that has rarely, if ever, happened or materialized in the NFL ... yet you can't see the possibilty that not being clear on who the long-term starter is could end up hurting us more than helping us.
Dude, are you intentionally misrepresenting what I wrote to make your point? Here is what I wrote:
"I understand your concerns, I just don't share them or care to fuel them by conceding to your point that they could potentially lead to problems this year because I don't see the need. I have enjoyed the discussion though."
Does that read to you like I can't see the possibility? I just don't happen to share your concerns. Deal with it.
I have to say, with your constant jabs, it's starting to make the last part of my statement a little difficult.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
Vers comes back and starts ripping posters, and all of a sudden there opinions seem to change (Ammo). The thing is, just below the surface real opinions leak out when stories like this one are written.
Was that necessary?
A couple of things, w/a word of caution. Some will believe me. Some will consider it while others, will dismiss it because it does not mesh w/their thoughts. I actually prefer you choose # 2, but do as you will:
---DA did look good in practices last year. Dorsey had the best understanding of the offense early. But DA's ability to make all the throws in this offense raised a lot of eyebrows. As time went on, he clearly was the best QB of the four in practices.
---DA certainly did not distinguish himself in the preseason games. In fact, he was pretty bad. Frye was the incumbent and got the nod. But, he was on the shortest leash of all time. The proof for that was that he was not only yanked in game one, and he was exiled from Cleveland.
---Chud loves what DA brings to this offense. He has all the tools to make this particular offense click. None of the other three, and now two, have those tools. If Chud has a say, DA will be the guy for a long, long time.
---If BQ did not cost the Browns as much as he did, this debate would be over and this would be DA's team. However, that is not the case, and the final decision was prolonged. Savage was not BSing anyone when he said that he wanted to prolong the decision as long as possible.
---I agree w/how Savage and company are handling this situation. It's best for the Browns. The only concern is all the noise the media and fans are making.......and worse yet........will make as time goes on. This is a true litmus test for not only Savage, RAC, and Chud.............but for Junior. I am fairly certain that the first three will not succumb to media and fan pressure, but they do work for a man who is a businessman first and foremost.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,971 Likes: 1359
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,971 Likes: 1359 |
Quote:
If BQ did not cost the Browns as much as he did, this debate would be over and this would be DA's team. However, that is not the case, and the final decision was prolonged. Savage was not BSing anyone when he said that he wanted to prolong the decision as long as possible.
Based on his 50% in the short stuff?
Let it play out. Everybody has "hopes" in different directions. But this will play itself out. And there are just as many questions with DA as there are answers.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
"I'm just not sure if your take on training camp ia accurate."
Very possible...I can't state with 100% accuracy that I'm not mixing up the OTA's ( I know from there is where I read the bit of Chud being impressed about one of the QBs and I thought it was Frye).
TC...I can remember at least one bad reading and at least one good reading regarding DA's day at practice. So possibly...I won't stake my 100% credibility on it.
but no doubt in my mind...DA is very impressive in "MOST" of his practices...over and beyond impressive. We have only seen one glimpse of that perfection on the field...The Rams game. From that game alone I think its Ok to see how much he can progress...we almost have to! But we got to see that become the norm. He was so comfortable that game and was in the Zone...good footwork. Accurate passes...But I never seen that from him again...matter of fact it Degressed after that game.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,338 Likes: 254
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,338 Likes: 254 |
Quote:
Was that necessary?
Wasn't a knock on you.Some people change their tune when they get questioned, but it's not how they really feel and it shows everytime a tid bit comes out about Quinn.
It's like the article in the other thread, a good thing about DA is mentioned and I just brace myself for the naysayers. I gotta respect people like Pit. I think he is dead wrong, but atleast he doesn't pretend to give DA credit when he doesn't mean it, only to jump on him when he gets a chance.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
I respect people who argue fairly. Being on a crusade to prove your right no matter what isn't the same as being on a crusade to be fair and to search for the truth.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 502
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 502 |
This QB thing has always been the case here and on the old board... The know it all nobody's, which is everyone one here, always root fot the back up QB and slam the starter... The hypocrocy is always present... Most every single one of us is guilty of it @ one time or another here... No one can or has successfully argued why DA shouldn't be the starter this upcomming season... DA had a very good year last year... From an numbers standpoint few Browns QB's have had better... I'm not a DA guy... I've known of him and watched him for probably longer than anyne on here... When we all take time to consider the overall staus of the Browns offense coming into last season... The new offense installed last year. Another new 0-Cord. Another nearly completely rebuilt O-line. A veteran RB who was thought by many/most to be nearing the fork stage of his career... Under-producing, over hyped, shelfish, immature #1 WR & starting TE... A QB situation that was a cluster..... Look what happeded...  No one ever knows how things will turn out... Personally, I understand why The QB situation is what it is right now... Smart football moves... IMO. Who would I choose @ QB to lead my team for the future between DA and BQ? BQ! Without any question or hesitation... There are a number of very good reasons why I'm just a lowly poster on this board...  A question for consideration... Keep in mind you don't have the crystal ball or the magic 8-ball, like Shep does.... And you have to make a choice as to who your starting QB is, without the after the fact information you have now... Which QB do you choose as your starter, You're the Rams head coach, Banks or Warner in 1999 or Green or Warner in 2000....? Do you see where this QB thing is going... and this is just one QB example we could take a look at... It's good to see a few of you come out of the woodwork every now and then...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,682 Likes: 674
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,682 Likes: 674 |
I don't think you understand.
I'll root for DA for as long as he starts. If BQ is traded at the end of this year I will not riot, I promise.
BUT I have followed BQ since High School here in Dublin. So your damn right I'm belly achin about wanting him to get his chance. I also am of the opinion, IMHO, Once BQ does start for a game or two... we will never look back.
Unfortunately, I have never and doubt I will ever feel the same about DA. Maybe it is the fact Frye won the job in TC last year or the way we closed last season... I am not sure what it is but something tells me DA is not the answer.
On the other hand, DA could light it up AGAIN this year and when we trade BQ for whatever we get, I'll be sittin' here eatin' a toasted Crow sandwich. Doubtful but possible.
Nobody is slamming anybody, we're just fans trying to survive the off season.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 Likes: 13
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 Likes: 13 |
Quote:
Some will believe me. Some will consider it while others, will dismiss it because it does not mesh w/their thoughts. I
How do U feel aboust someone who does a combo of the above ... ...
I did the first two ... I believed some ... I considered some .... and then I kinda did 3 with a little twist ... I dismissed some AFTER CONSIDERING it and coming to the conclusion its HOGWASH based on the fact that some of it is HOGWASH and some of it U have no clue about as it needs to play out ...
Quote:
DA did look good in practices last year. Dorsey had the best understanding of the offense early. But DA's ability to make all the throws in this offense raised a lot of eyebrows. As time went on, he clearly was the best QB of the four in practices.
that I believe ... Da has one of the strongest if not the strongest arm in the NFL ... and he made some absolutely incredible throws that he may be the only QB in the entire league that could have made them ... but tops only one or two other QB's in the entire league could have made them ...
Quote:
DA certainly did not distinguish himself in the preseason games. In fact, he was pretty bad. Frye was the incumbent and got the nod. But, he was on the shortest leash of all time. The proof for that was that he was not only yanked in game one, and he was exiled from Cleveland.
tottally believe that .. it happend just as U described for all to see ...
so far so good bro .... 
Quote:
Chud loves what DA brings to this offense. He has all the tools to make this particular offense click. None of the other three, and now two, have those tools. If Chud has a say, DA will be the guy for a long, long time.
here is where I started to consider and after considering it agreed with some and just wondered how U could have written some with a straight face ... so being the nice guy that I am I'll add the qualifiers u so obviously forgot ...
I considered and then believed U in that Chud loves what DA brings to the O and has all the tools to make this O click ...
I considered and believed U that Frye and Dorsey don't have ALL the tools to run this O ... the disclaimer here is that BQ LAST YEAR may not have had the tools to run the O .... but this year ... HE MOST CERTAINLY DOES ...
What tool(s) does he not have?????
Quote:
If Chud has a say, DA will be the guy for a long, long time.
I considered this one and decided U forgot the qualifier here .... so I'll add it for U ... YOUR WELCOME my friend ... ...
If Chud has a say, DA will be the guy for a long long time IF AND ONLY IF he can overcome his BAD DECISIONS MAKING and his REMARKABLY HORRIBLE ACCURACY AT TIMES .....
Now I can move that one over to the consider/believe category ... I sure feel better about it now and hope U do to ...
Quote:
If BQ did not cost the Browns as much as he did, this debate would be over and this would be DA's team. However, that is not the case, and the final decision was prolonged. Savage was not BSing anyone when he said that he wanted to prolong the decision as long as possible.
This one was considered and put in the HOGWASH CATEGORY ....
this has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT BQ COST US ..
this has everything to do with DA being a yo-yo out there ALL YEAR and playing the 2nd half of the year in the valley as opposed to the peak ...
it also has everything to do with what BQ BRINGS TO THE TABLE ..... I;ve said it before ... one mistake U all make is that BQ has no say in this ... we have something very very special in that kid ... YOU'LL SEE ....
COMPLETE HOGWASH BRO ....
Quote:
I agree w/how Savage and company are handling this situation. It's best for the Browns.
I believe u that they handled this situation right ... witch flies directly in the face of the HOGWASH u said above ...  ...
Quote:
The only concern is all the noise the media and fans are making.......and worse yet........will make as time goes on.
I considered it and dismissed it ......
Again like everyone else U are forgetting about BQ ... WHAT ABOUT THE NOISE BQ MAKES????
the way U make it sound is that DA did nothing wrong last year and theres NO WAY THAT BQ COULD BE BETTER ... I know u don't mean or believe that ... BUT ITS THE PICTURE 98% OF YOUR POSTS PAINT ....
BQ WILL BE MORE THAN JUST A ROLE PLAYER IN THIS ..... he is not a crash dummy in this scenario ... HE HAS SOME MAD ASS SKILLS ....
DON'T DISCOUNT HIM ...
Quote:
This is a true litmus test for not only Savage, RAC, and Chud.............but for Junior. I am fairly certain that the first three will not succumb to media and fan pressure, but they do work for a man who is a businessman first and foremost.
i considered it and dismissed it ... Jr. has made all the right moves so far since taking over this team .. starting with putting a team together to go study WINNING FRANCHISES witch was not the norm and certainly not inexpensive and he has also HIRED AND MAINTANED AND ADDED TO A PRETTY IN DEPTH SCOUTING DEPT. .. witch is where alot of franchises cut cost ...
Bro the CBA says that the players get approximately 60% of all revenue ... that means that Randy has spent past of his 40% on things ABOVE AND BEYONE the normal operating cost such as the "study" and the very very good scouting staff .... and thats an expense a guy in this for only $$$ wouldbe very shy in incurring .. why u continue to think he will all of a sudden turn into a businessman is beyond me ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
"No one can or has successfully argued why DA shouldn't be the starter this upcomming season."
Possibly you are confusing Earning the right to Start...which DA certainly has. Being "THE" starter as in what we got last year with no growth is good enough. We need to see the growth and he is young so that the Possibility is great - but many a young QBs never good grow and have not made their mark.
"The know it all nobody's, which is everyone one here, always root fot the back up QB and slam the starter."
Actually this know it all nobody has a history of backing the decisions of our HC on their who would be their starting QB. But we never had a back up like BQ before. Who? Holcomb...pfft yeah otay he's an NFL franchise QB. Spergeon? A damaged Couch? And gosh knows who else we ever had as our Backup QBs.
None in the league or potential of BQ - you can't brush off any QB debate between DA and BQ with the old - Back up QB is the most popular guy in town theory!
And there is one thing to remember in all this. BQ was chosen by This Regime to be our Franchise QB. That means volumes, especially when he is developing just like they anticipated if not greater.
Its different when you inherit somebody elses version of a Franchise QB. This is a very unique situation. No where can I remember a situation where two very Young QBs came as prospects and have emerged at almost the same time! There just is no similarities ever in the history of football that I can remember. Surely there have been a young drafted QB and a Vet...but not two who are young. Surely there was Montana and Young to HOF QBs on the same team but one was already a stud before the other arrived. DA is nowhere close to that designation of "STUD" and does have an edge on BQ with 18 starts!
But if there is ever a situation where a good QB debate is realistic and pure Football its this one!
DA has questions to be answered...and BQ has simply yet to show what he can bring to the field to question anything? But both have excelled as "PROSPECTS" so that they are viable candidates to be our starter.
JMHO - oh and BTW Diam...great post. Pretty spot on. Not bad for a Brady Brat...lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 30
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 30 |
Quote:
I want them to split time , do great, trade them both for first round picks , and let Ken Dorsey lead us to the superbowl. 
Ken Dorsey is one heck of a QB. He is the best 3rd stringer in the league. 
With the New regime starting in Cleveland. It is key that the Browns draft Taylor Mays. He fits our scheme and is one of the best safeties I have seen
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 502
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 502 |
I do understand... I would like to see BQ earn the starting job too... So far he hasn't... I would like to see BQ become the future QB he was drafted to be... We shall see... The great thing about football and this board is that no one here knows what will happen... But we get to talk about it, which is great! There are reasons why you feel the way you do... Which is great... Doesn't mean you're wrong or right... You don't need to explain it to me... You feel how you feel and you think what you think... When I disgaree or have questions we'll talk... There has been plenty of slamming of the QB's and other issues/players and othe things on this board since I've been coming here for 7 years... When you look at DA's production, the decissions, the plays and the record it's very difficult to read and listen to the people who don't feel he should be the #1 QB for the Browns. The production of last season was among the best ever for a CB QB.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311 |
j/c
I didn't want to start a new QB thread, so I'll just post this here.... Anderson accepts team MVP award Zac Jackson, Staff Writer 05.20.2008 AKRON - At 6-foot-6, Derek Anderson knows the feeling of standing above a crowd. Being the toast of the town, though, is still a little bit new. But that's just one reason Anderson had to watch his step Monday night at the annual Akron Browns Backers Banquet. Everywhere he turned, fans were waiting. He's learning that's what happens when you're not only the Browns' quarterback, but the team's most valuable player. He picked up that award, as voted by the Cleveland chapter of the Pro Football Writer's Association, at the Akron banquet. "I just told my wife that a year ago Derek could have walked in here and nobody would have known who he was," quarterbacks coach Rip Scherer said. "It's a credit to him and the work that he's done. He's worked his tail off." A year ago at this time, Anderson was the Browns' backup and wouldn't have been busy on a May Monday night. Now, he's a Pro Bowler with a new contract and a growing fan club, but Scherer said Anderson's hard work has continued this offseason. "The only difference," Scherer said, "is that now he gets invited to more golf tournaments." Scherer, head coach Romeo Crennel and assistants Chris Caminiti and Anthony Lynn were part of the group honored at the Akron banquet. Phil Dawson was presented with the PFWA's "Good Guy" Award, and the 2007 Cleveland Browns Legends class was also honored. Anderson admitted the whole rock-star experience is new, saying "I should have just worn my jeans and t-shirt and tried to slide right in. I tried to sneak in but it didn't work." The fun lasted for just over two hours Monday night as an overflow crowd at Tangier's restaurant saluted the Browns' players and coaches in attendance for their work in 2007. There was plenty of optimism for 2008, too, and Anderson knew he'd better head north before it got too late. The Browns will be back on the practice field Tuesday morning. "Derek came in and won 10 for us," Crennel said. "Hopefully he can continue to do that. If he can win 10 this year, I think we have a pretty good chance." TUCKER UPDATE - Crennel said Ryan Tucker is resting at home after hip surgery that Crennel said will keep Tucker sidelined "through the start of training camp." He was injured during practice last week. "We still have the recovery period to go through, but I know Ryan will do everything he can to come back," Crennel said. ON DUTY - Crennel said all the rookies have reported and should be on the field this week for OTA practices except undrafted rookie defensive back Gerard Lawson, a former teammate of Anderson's at Oregon State. Lawson can't report until the semester ends at Oregon State. main site
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 502
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 502 |
You can re-phrase "it" however you wish... Improvement is what is best... Grow is = improvment? Is that what you mean? You have have your orange and brown glasses on again EO... You probably are wearing your Brown # 10 jersey too! DA is the starting QB for the Cleveland Browns. Period. Is expecting better numbers and production relistic this year for DA? Considering this years schedule and the initial expectations being floated around here it will be interesting... If DA comes close too or duplicates the production of last year he will have improved... And so will have the Browns... Are you representing that you have never posted a disagreement, different opinion with the FO, GM or HC here? Bull... Did I write that I didn't understand, feel or believe that BQ isn't the choice @ QB of the future for the Browns? How do you know that BQ is the best #2 QB in the league? Proof? Show and tell please... Just what will BQ do, how will he perform, if he earns the job as the QB starter for the Browns? BQ has ?'s too... I didn't brush off any QB debate... I used an example of a SB team who had young QB's with viable NFL upside... Who chose who and why? And what ended up happening in that example? Are you saying that the Browns didn't choose TC,TD, JG? There are a few other QB's on other rosters in the NFL's that were Browns choices as of the end of last season too... There are times when the QB debate here is solid... Most of the time it's poor to weak, mostly opinionated takes and full of hypocracy...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Growth, progress, improvement...all very similar in meaning regarding what is being looked for in DA.
"You have have your orange and brown glasses on again EO... You probably are wearing your Brown # 10 jersey too!"
I know you had a smilie there...but honestly this went over my head. I think you were reflecting on insults I had to bare in the past regarding a QB debate or two???
"DA is the starting QB for the Cleveland Browns. Period."
I've never said otherwise - in fact I've even said that he has earned it.
"Are you representing that you have never posted a disagreement, different opinion with the FO, GM or HC here? Bull."
What kind of game you're playing here? I said what I said - I am who I said I was - I am what I am...yuck yuck yuck...But what kind of crapola is that. I said I have always back who the coaches have tapped to be our starting QB...
Couch...and when the QB debates went on I defended him and his choice to be our starter.
Holcomb...backed him - now getting all the Couchies mad at me.
Garcia...backed him.
Dilfer
Frye
etc....Don't insult me with your "BULL" statement. I said what I said and its true.
DA is the only one I'm not convinced 100% with and my statement is more to say that is not because I think he is bad and has no future. But more so because I think we might have another who could take us further.
What I have stated is that I believe DA will be held on a pretty short leash. Because of BQ...which brings us to this:
"How do you know that BQ is the best #2 QB in the league? Proof? Show and tell please."
Huh? please where did I say that...although I probably do believe it...I never even mentioned BQ as the best #2 in the NFL quite frankly I don't know the rest of the NFL to answer that correctly. I was talking about our Browns. And he's the best #2 I can ever remember here. I did make a statement where there never has been a #1 or #2 comparison like this...Young and full of Potential.
As for Proof of BQ's development. All I can go on is what I read...and all has been good. Why YOU GOT PROOF OTHERWISE???
You obviously totally missed this statement by me:
"DA has questions to be answered...and BQ has simply yet to show what he can bring to the field to question anything?
As you bring this up after asking for proof of BQs status.
"Just what will BQ do, how will he perform, if he earns the job as the QB starter for the Browns? BQ has ?'s too."
I stated we haven't even got to the stage of questioning BQ as we haven't seen him enough. But his pedigree came with him...and all who are involved state that he is progressing ahead of schedule...Oh and before you go there...these are the same people who State DA is the Starter....PERIOD
As always JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 502
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 502 |
Not playing any games with you... What I said is clear and complete too... Just replying to what you wrote... If you take a look at your reply regarding BQ being the #1, #2 thats what I was refering to... I call bull when I read bull... It's not an isult... It's bull for you, me or anyone not to admitt or make an effotrt to represent that you have not had differences with decisisions made by the FO or CS's in the past... JMO. Your skin used to be thicker than bull... Especially coming from me... I'm not here to win any popularity contest... I'm here to learn as much as I can about my favorite team and talk football.  I have noticed that there are a couple of refs that are... Well, "Thats all I have to say about that" BQ has the physical and mental skill set, size, tangibles and intangibles to be an outstanding NFL QB. BQ has the potential to be very successful in the NFL. Any other perspectives or factual representations that expand on these statements are total speculation, conjecture and bull... IMO I believe what I read from sources that have proven to be trustworthy and accurate. Other than that I believe what I know and see... We shall see. I hope BQ is a stud for himself and the Browns at some point in the future. As of now DA is the stud. I know you know that... Yeah, sometimes I miss things too... More than sometimes... Sorry... It will happen again... What bothers me the most is that what DA did last year was have a outstaning year... He started 15 games and it was his first time as a full time starter. And the number of people who doubt what they see, read and hear form reliable sources is astounding... I'm not a DA guy... But when any player plays like that in a situation like that they deserve the respect they have earned... Some people will never give the proper respect... You are not one of those people... It's comendable how some here support all players... Even when players don't earn it... That bothers me too... Most here don't back all players the ways we probably should... I'm in that line and at fault in that too... I've been hearing the same progressing thing with Aaron Rogers too... I guess we'll finally get to see if it's true this season...
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quinn confident he can lead Browns
if needed
|
|
