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Vers, how are you my Browns Brother? Hope this finds you well.  I'm hearing on this man. Generally speaking, I have had it with all the perceived "concerns" about DA... Does DA have areas of concern? Yes... So did Favre and so did Leaf... I was one of DA biggest detractors here from day one of his signing... And I still have my issues with him... I have watched as much or more of DA since his college days @ OSU West then probably anyone here... I was all over DA like a bad rash... And had to big time, wipe the egg of my face big time after the year DA had in 2007... But after what DA did last year with the help of the rest of his teammates on O, I just don't see or get at all the downer tone and attitude and outright poo about DA here... What Mike Tyson once said fits the insanity and idiocy here on this topic, "it's ludicrous". I'm not slamming anyone or any opinion... But when the actual production, decisions, accomplishments, awards, and a new substantial contract offer is made and accepted by the Browns organization and the player and that’s not enough proof, then no proof will ever be enough...  I find the inability to see the obvious, the out right denial and hypocrisy here virtually unbearable at times... Rap at cha later Bra’
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Yet, all I ever hear from many of you is "another of DA's weaknesses is........" I know you don't think you sound stupid.................but damn man...........we go from 4 wins to 10. We go from having about the worst O in the league to a damn good one. We go from having one of the most boring teams in the league to having one of the most potent and exciting offenses in the league............and all I hear from you guys is baloney about DA's weaknesses.
Not credible at best. Hilarious in a preposterous sense at worst. And Vette, I actually like you. Can't say that for all of the BQ crowd. But hey man, think about what you are saying.
No, think about what YOU'RE saying. Please don't attribute our team's success to one man. Maybe that's not what you mean, but the way you post, you sure lead on like that's what you're trying to say.
The guy helped our team out. He was one of MANY. Guy's who played in '07 that didn't in '06. Like Jamal, Eric, and Joe. And an offensive coordinator that could relate to the players and wasn't a complete waste of money. Not taking anything away from the man, but the way you posted that, you're giving credit where it's not all due.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Browns' QBs back to work already Coach says quarterbacks taking offseason seriously, fine-tuning their skills By Marla Ridenour Beacon Journal sportswriter Published on Saturday, May 24, 2008 Derek Anderson is working on throwing to his left and on his touch — or lack thereof — on short passes. Brady Quinn has changed his grip, which might remind some of Chris Palmer's first impression of Tim Couch. This month's organized team activities and a three-day mandatory minicamp June 10-12 might lack the intensity of training camp, but Browns quarterbacks coach Rip Scherer said Anderson, Quinn and No. 3 quarterback Ken Dorsey are taking this offseason seriously. ''I've got the greatest quarterback room in the NFL,'' Scherer, also the assistant head coach, said Monday at the 28th annual Akron Browns Backers Banquet at Tangier restaurant. ''They're a lot easier than coaching college guys because they want to learn, they have an unbelievable work ethic, they work well together and they're so receptive to coaching. ''They'll do whatever you ask. The coach is still the coach, and I think they'll always be that way. Even if they're 15-year veterans, I think that's just part of their personality.'' Anderson, a three-year veteran picked up off waivers from Baltimore in 2005, went to the Pro Bowl in his first year as a starter. Taking over when Charlie Frye was traded to the Seattle Seahawks after a 34-7 season-opening loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers, Anderson led the Browns to a 10-6 record, one game shy of the playoffs. The trip to Hawaii (as the AFC's first alternate) and throwing 29 touchdown passes, one shy of Brian Sipe's team mark, did not go to Anderson's head, however. In film review, he noticed a weakness throwing to his left and vowed to improve. ''It's not terrible, but I just need to get better,'' Anderson said. ''The two major things with him are opening up his hips and throwing to his left, and not changing his arm slot when he throws underneath throws,'' Scherer said of the 6-foot-6 Anderson. ''Release the ball at the same level, just take a little speed off of it. Every day after practice he stays with me and works on those things.'' Anderson blew a chance to start in a training-camp battle with Frye last summer, when he failed to throw a touchdown pass in the preseason. Considering that, Scherer was not stunned by Anderson's success in '07. ''I know it may not sound very honest when I say no, but I'm not surprised,'' Scherer said. ''He has the ability; he has a way about him. He carries himself like a quarterback. He's got the primary tool; he can throw the football. He just had to exhibit that he could make good decisions, make better decisions. That's still part of the growth process. His learning curve will accelerate now having a year of experience behind him.'' In three years as a starter at Oregon State, Anderson threw 79 touchdowns and 57 interceptions. He totalled 19 interceptions last season, four in a loss at Cincinnati that doomed the Browns' playoff hopes. Scherer said that bad day is just part of what motivates Anderson. ''I think he uses every incomplete pass he threw last year as motivation,'' Scherer said. ''You can't carry that and let it weigh you down, but you have to learn from it. I sense from him that he has a little bit of a chip on his shoulder. A good chip, not a negative chip.'' A restricted free agent, Anderson signed a three-year, $26 million contract on March 1 with $14.5 million guaranteed. After this season, the Browns will have to choose between him and Quinn, the former Notre Dame star picked 22nd overall in 2007. The Browns gave the Dallas Cowboys their first-round pick for this past draft to move up to select Quinn, who played only 11 snaps in the season finale against the San Francisco 49ers. Scherer has not hesitated to work on Quinn's mechanics, even though he knows some of his peers don't believe in it. Scherer had more than 30 years of experience in the college ranks, including spending 1991-94 as coach at James Madison, before joining the Browns in 2005. ''A lot of pro coaches feel if a guy has been throwing a rock like that since he was 3, let's not fool around with it,'' Scherer said. ''The guys who pitch in the major leagues for 15 years still have pitching coaches working on their delivery, so I see it should be no different with a quarterback. ''Brady kind of gripped the ball a little bit more in the meat of the ball and we tried to move him up a lace or two, more toward the top end and keep him more balanced. Brady is as eager a learner as anybody, but all three of them are receptive.'' Palmer did similar work with Couch after the University of Kentucky quarterback was the first overall pick in 1999. It seemed striking to Scherer that Anderson was mobbed by fans at Monday's banquet, where he was honored by the Cleveland chapter of the Pro Football Writers as the team's Player of the Year. ''I was standing there with my wife and said, 'A year ago he could have walked in here and nobody would have known who he was,' '' Scherer said. ''It's a credit to him and the work he has done. ''He's the same guy from Scappoose, Oregon, that he was when he walked in our building three years ago. A sincere guy, not affected by himself or his success. Does a real good job of managing and balancing things and staying focused and not getting all caught up in this. I can't say enough about him as a person as well as a quarterback.'' Scherer couldn't put a finger on anything that has changed about Anderson. Except, that is, for one little perk. ''He's been invited to more golf tournaments,'' Scherer said. Marla Ridenour can be reached at [Email]mridenour@thebeaconjournal.com.[/Email] Read her Browns blog at http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/browns/.
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''The two major things with him are opening up his hips and throwing to his left, and not changing his arm slot when he throws underneath throws,'' Scherer said of the 6-foot-6 Anderson.
''Release the ball at the same level, just take a little speed off of
it. Every day after practice he stays with me and works on those things.''
Now I'm STOKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There it is in black & white...Right from the 2 horses...
Accuracy on the short stuff and TOUCH...Throwin' to his left...
Those are the 2 b's we hear from everyone...He's workin' it...SWEEEEET!!!!!!!!!!!
Vers...29 TD's and 3800 yards...Can u imagine what this offense can do if he starts hitting that underneath stuff consistently???...We've got THREE guys that can take the Jerry Rice Slant to the house every single time if hit in stride and split the safeties...Bray/Winslow/Stallworth...
35 TD's and 4500 yards...I can live with 20 Picks with those kinda numbers cause those kinda numbers will result in MEGA-POINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Damn I hope this works...
Go Browns!!!
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Damn I hope this works...
Me too.
It's one thing to identify a problem area, but it can be another story in correcting it.
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Definitely good to hear. Major concerns, and they're taking notice and working on it.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Legend
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We will see if it works.
As I said during the season.....you work on that stuff in the off-season, not during the season. Last year Anderson wasn't the guy they were spending their time with. Sure, all guys get coached, but the starter is where the focus is placed.
This year, DA got the full attention of the staff. Now we will see if any or how much improvement is made from the tweaking.
Due to the teams scheme and DA's natural make-up to push the ball downfield, he is probably always going to be a guy with pick numbers in the mid teens.
Unlike some others, I think the trade-off is already good enough if you use last years numbers as the basis.
Sure......ZERO picks is what we want, but it isn't going to happen(not that anybody is claiming that is what they expect)....
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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" Let's say he goes in for two series and stinks up the joint because he gets yanked before he ever has a chance to develop a rhythm."
Kardiac...if its the case of Rhythm (man I tried how many vowels to get it right...lol  ) Chud is no fool he will realize it and as mentioned DA has the starter status and if your starter needs an extra series or two in the name of rhythm - he will get it. I'm really not sure on that slow starter stuff. I found him to be more Streaky I believe I started calling him Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde early on in the season. There really was no true pattern of early or late.
His most noted success did come from getting hot in the 4th qtr where most teams were in Nickel and Dime situations thus giving DA more time and More Comfort Zone to hit a good play...this was mostly in the first half of the season.
But I really don't know if he was that slow to start up as noted by you???
But still, the starter if he needs an extra series or two...he'll get it.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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"This arguemeny of yours has no merit. Not to say your others do or don't, this just stuck out to me."
Actually I forgot to write it in Pdawgnese but what you laid out was precisely my argument when I stated Couch did not have the same Environment.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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"As much as I hate the QB rating formula I hate trying to assess a player by using this "game" as a tool even more. Totally and unequivocally meaningless."
Well I agree to a degree as far as meaningful its right up there with Madden. But I wasn't the one bringing it up as a noted Variable attesting that he was a stud, just answering the Assumption that playing in the PRO-BOWL justified the classification of Stud.
But one other thing...all too often that game DA was forced to move laterally...even by one step. To this viewer again it was data for footwork.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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"Did Couch really win the team's MVP? I don't remember that. I know the media loved him, but I didn't think they had that much audacity. What year did he win it?"
I tried to look that up before I wrote it and couldn't find any listing of past MVPs...so put it in the form of a question. I was thinking it was highly likely in the first 4 seasons that he was our MVP...Gardocki couldn't have won it all the time...lol
"One more thing...........there is some BS floating around about DA not handling pressure. Hell, I thought he played some of his best ball when there was a lot of pressure........you know.......like at the end of games when he had to move the team. I guess I don't remember that one correctly, either. *L* "
If you are going to insult me - at least have the guts to do it to my face:
But in answer to your theory..."like the end of games". I did think he was pretty impressive in the first half - but it was not visible in the 2nd half of the season.
btw - most of that success was in Nickel and Dime Defenses - where pressure was actually almost NON-existant...there are several forms of pressure you know 
But the BS you would love to be swept under the table by you simply stating "BS" and then have all bow down and take it as fact. Just ain't going to happen with this poster.
Pressure...to win a "COMPETITION" and now we can honestly say that the "Competition" seemed to be laid out to give him the opportunity to win...obviously CF was the incumbent and didn't need a competition to justify his naming as the starter. But there we have DA just folding and not able to make a move.
Eliminate that "Pressure" by Savage's own mouth he stated that DA was a changed QB once CF was gone and the pressure of him breathing down his neck.
Btw - that what 90% of this - DA is the Starter bit and no sniff of competition. We want him to succeed and know he needs to be as comfortable as possible.
Pressure as in the two biggest games we had in the 2nd half were against our division rivals Steelers and Bengals. One would have given us a late in the season lead in our Division. The other would have clinched us a Playoff birth...DA looked horrible in both games. I know a coincidence 
Now I know maybe insignificant to all but not to DA.
Think about it...the season is over - he's an RFA some restrictions but able to negotiate with ANY TEAM in the NFL. The Payday of his lifetime at hand.
In the Pro-Bowl he got raves for his practices leading up to the game. Now all that was needed was to bring that "WOW" to the game itself. If you don't think that if he STUDDED out in that game wouldn't have had teams knocking on his door than I'm sorry it will be futile to debate this any further with an opposition with an Open Mind. It was one of the biggest games for his upcoming FA Marketing. And you can tell he was even "Over Trying" sending in the signals and everything. Well we saw how many teams came a knocking at his door with a contract in hand.
Pressure...doing well in the 4th qtr against the Dolphins and RAMs, two winless teams at the time - does not signify the answer you gave.
4th Qtr
Game 1 Steelers: Couple plays and a fumble not DA's fault...then another series ending in an INT.
Game 2 Bengals: 6/8 TD and FG...last two drives ended in a punt and kneel - we had the lead the entire 4th qtr...wonder if the Bengals were playing for the run? DA did great.
Game 3 Raiders: 10/15 ran in TD...down by 9 facing prevent D...DA did great but we lost.
Game 4 Ravens: 1/3...up by 21
Game 5 Pats: 8/15 2 TDs...down 20-3 facing Prevent and Dime D...thought DA did great.
Game 6 Dolphins: 3/4 2 TDs...we were up by 2 scores coming in and we rushed 14 times. Dolphins were playing run 2 of DA's passes were for TDs in the RedZone. Good job.
Game 7 RAMs: 3/4 1 FG...up by a TD rushed 6 times sacked twice. Good job
Game 8 Seahawks: 12/17...good pressure situation that I can see you using as a reference and DA did great as we won in OT.
2nd half of the season...now we are a contender and come to our biggest game to date.
Enter the 4th in the lead and we get a TD return by Cribbs:
Game 9 Steelers: 3/8...two first downs in the last drive trailing by 3. All 3 completions in that last drive - Steelers in Nickel or Dime in the last drive with a lead and us in obvious passing situation. Last pass was a 3 yarder to JJ to set up a 52 fg attempt in bad end of field. Not a good job...biggest game/pressure game he played in to date.
Well I'm done...actually showed his best moments that you consider as proving to all that he's to be considered a PRESSURE QB. Didn't have the heart to tear him down with his worst moments. There it is black and white.
If that is what you consider dealing with pressure as a "Franchise QB" then we have two totally different concepts of what both Pressure means and Franchise QB.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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And Vette, I actually like you. ...But hey man, think about what you are saying.
awww, shucks 
I did think about what I said.
He seems almost too nonchalant. Like when he was questioned during the week after his 4 int Cincy game and he told the reporter "At least I didn't throw six." Now, I know that he was probably referring to Peyton's 6 int game but it just didn't seem like the right thought process.
Again, it's a good thing - that he doesn't get rattled by things that happen to him - but it almost seems that he's totally unfazed by his mistakes.
ok, that aside. It's good to read in this thread that he and Rip are working on his touch. He certainly needs some work there...I'm just not certain how much touch can be gotten from him. Touch (or 'feeling' to a musician) is something that you have naturally....or you don't. Some have more 'feeling' than others and some have more than absolutely no 'feeling'....I'm just not certain how much touch he has available to him in his genes.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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but it almost seems that he's totally unfazed by his mistakes.
this might actually be a good thing- as long as he learns from his mistakes. We can't have a guy that is gunshy, but the QB needs to be smart about where he is placing the ball.
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Legend
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Quote:
He seems almost too nonchalant. Like when he was questioned during the week after his 4 int Cincy game and he told the reporter "At least I didn't throw six." Now, I know that he was probably referring to Peyton's 6 int game but it just didn't seem like the right thought process.
This bothered me too. In the worst way. But I've since given him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he just spoke too quickly, didn't know how to answer the question, or just made a dumb response. The reason is I've read many stories on how hard he is working behind the scenes this year to improve his game.
Here's an article I didn't see posted yet.
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsi...46370&rfi=6
Quarterbacks in the NFL sometimes get the idea they know more than everyone else in the organization. If they do not like their head coach or position coach, they will complain to the general manager -- or to the owner if the owner will listen.
Such a quarterback gets the reputation of being a ''coach killer.'' If he complains enough, particularly if he is a fan favorite, the coach almost always loses. Then, the quarterback becomes even more of a Prima Donna.
Advertisement
The Browns' starting quarterback, Derek Anderson, is coming off a Pro Bowl season in which he threw 29 touchdown passes in his first season as a starter. Anderson's backup, Brady Quinn, was the golden boy starter two years ago at Notre Dame. No one will ever know if it would have been Quinn, not Anderson, who replaced Charlie Frye in the second quarter of the opener last year if only Quinn hadn't missed 11 days of training camp in a contract holdout.
Browns quarterback coach Rip Scherer feels fortunate. Anderson and/or Quinn could be one of those coach killers if they had different personalities, but such is not the case.
Scherer is trying to tweak the way both players throw the football. Each has accepted the changes Scherer wants them to make. On top of that, Scherer has to make sure Quinn keeps his head knowing the only way he starts this year is if Anderson is injured or completely flops.
Many fans still do not believe in Anderson, even though the Browns won 10 games with him last year. It would be easy for Quinn to divide the team and the city, but that has not happened and there is no indication it will.
''Derek has worked his tail off,'' said Scherer, who was in his first year with the Browns when Anderson was claimed off waivers from the Ravens in 2005. ''He has grown a lot as a person and a quarterback over that time frame. He understands the responsibility that comes with that position and what it takes to be successful at the highest level.''
Scherer coached at 11 different colleges in 30 years before the Browns hired him. He spent a total of 10 years as a head coach -- four at James Madison and six at Memphis. As an assistant he was either quarterback coach or offensive coordinator at most of his other stops.
Scherer said his college background made it easier to approach Quinn about changing the way he grips the ball.
''A lot of coaches who have been in this league don't fool around with fundamentals,'' Scherer said. ''They feel a guy has been throwing the rock that way since he was three years old, let's not fool around with it.
''If the guy is receptive to it, there are things we can tweak. We work with Derek every day. He is very fundamentally conscious of himself. Although he has a great delivery, there are a couple things he has to work on.
''We have Brady gripping more the meat of the ball and moving him up a lace or two to the top end to keep more balanced.
''The guys who have been pitching in the Major Leagues for 15 years still have pitching coaches working on their deliveries. I see it should be no different for a quarterback.''
Anderson said he has been working on completing more passes to his left. He is trying to refine other aspects of his passing as well. For one, Anderson wants to be more accurate.
Anderson was ranked 17th among quarterbacks last year. His 29 touchdown passes was fifth highest, but only three quarterbacks, all with 20 (including Eli Manning of the Super Bowl champion Giants) threw more than the 19 interceptions Anderson threw. Anderson completed 298 of 527 passes, a 56.5 completion rate. He was the only quarterback in the top 24 to complete less than 60 percent of his passes.
''The two major things with Derek are opening his hips throwing to his left and not changing his arm slot when he throws underneath,'' Scherer said. ''We want him to release the ball at the same level, just take a little speed off it. Those are mechanical things he's real receptive to. He works on them every day with me after practice.''
Ken Dorsey is always the forgotten man among the Browns quarterbacks. Even general manager Phil Savage has caught himself saying something like: ''We have two quarterbacks and Ken Dorsey.''
Dorsey has been a coach in shoulder pads since the Browns acquired him in a trade with the 49ers in 2006. He threw one pass in two years with the Browns, yet last year he was given a three-year contract extension.
''I've got the greatest quarterback room in the NFL as far as I'm concerned,'' Scherer said. ''They're easier than coaching college guys because they want to learn. They have an unbelievable work ethic and they work well together. They're so receptive to coaching. The coach is still the coach. I think they'll be that way when they're 15-year veterans.''
Time for a change
On the subject of quarterbacks, the Chiefs might be looking to trade Damon Huard. Huard started 10 games last year and lost his job to Brodie Croyle.
Huard is not seeing much practice time in the Chiefs' OTAs. In the session open to the media last week, Coyle was with the first team. Tyler Thigpen worked with the second team and David Greene was with the third unit. Huard's safety net is Thigpen and Greene are raw.
Speaking of a mess ...
Browns fans should feel elated for having the opportunity to debate the merits of Anderson and Quinn as starting quarterbacks. They should pity their brethren in Chicago and Miami, not to mention fans of the Jets and Ravens. Well, maybe not the Ravens, even though their quarterback situation is unsettled with Kyle Boller, Troy Smith and rookie Joe Flacco fighting for the starting job.
In Chicago, Kyle Orton and Rex Grossman are working on one-year contracts. Orton put the Bears in the playoffs in 2005 and Grossman was a Super Bowl quarterback in 2006, but neither looks like Peyton Manning running an offense.
It is even worse in Miami. At least Orton and Grossman have won. The Dolphins drafted Chad Henne from Michigan, signed journeyman Josh McCown and released veteran Trent Green, all under Bill Parcells' watch.
There is little doubt Quinn would be starting for the Dolphins had they drafted him instead of Ted Ginn Jr. in the first round in 2007. Former general manager Randy Mueller and former head coach Cam Cameron -- former being the operative word -- thought a kick returner and speed receiver would be more valuable, so they waited for the second round to draft John Beck.
Parcells, who likens acquiring players to shopping for groceries, apparently would have left Beck on the shelf.
jschudel@News-Herald.com
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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"Touch (or 'feeling' to a musician) is something that you have naturally....or you don't. Some have more 'feeling' than others and some have more than absolutely no 'feeling'....I'm just not certain how much touch he has available to him in his genes."
Don't underestimate Coaching and Practice...Touch is very teachable.
In my observations of DA he lacked touch on a lot of his Bombs. And the literal sense of the word Bomb...the last thing you want is him to throw a rope on a very deep pass...you lose the adjusting abilities of the WR on those.
The next would be his Corner Fades when we had obvious miss matches - he threw the ball much too flat.
This can be taught and improved on and I see no reason why DA could not get better on these two routes.
If I have to go into detail with the two I would...but trust me its attainable by DA...don't confuse touch with DA's problems with short (inside 10 yd) passes - you can correct some with "touch" in these cases more of a flick than an arm throw - A lot of DA's lack of "touch" with short passes were him trying to decelerate his throwing motion and that is the kiss of death with almost all sports regarding accuracy. The rest of his nemesis in those short passes is all in his footwork.
But touch. Bombs, Corner Fade and short passes requiring a flick - all can be worked on and improved upon by DA. No doubt in my mind.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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One difference I noticed between Quinn and Anderson, and I'm glad someone else noticed, is the way they present themselves in front of the camera, on mic, and on the field.
It could be nothing, but Quinn brimms with confidence. Anderson is a bit quiet, doesn't say much, but on occasion he's gotten excited (ie sliding in the snow against Buffalo). Anderson doesn't seem quite as comfortable with reporters. Is it just his personality? The difference between playing at Notre Dame and Oregon St.?
They say Anderson likes to joke in the huddle. He doesn't seem to "command" the offense like we've seen Brady do in his time, or say a Peyton Manning. It doesn't neccessarily mean he'll fail as a QB, but just something interesting I've noticed. I think confidence is an important attribute in life in everything you do. Football included, and I think it does nothing but help you succeed.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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If Vers isn't online already, his ears just perked up and he'll be responding to you shortly... LOL
I know what you are trying to say and I'm sure others, such as myself, have had similar thoughts whether they want to admit it or not. There is something that is a little more 'field general-like' in Quinn than DA.
But I will stress that's just in appearance. We don't know if that's true or not. It has been documented that DA does joke in the huddle, but that doesn't mean he doesn't also command the huddle. I think you made a reach there.
I've always considered myself a leader. If I were an NFL quarterback, I would command the huddle. Hell, I would command the huddle tomorrow if they needed me to step in and play QB. But I would suck beyond all reason. LOL ... not saying Brady is not going to be good. But we don't know if that 'field general' presence has enough talent to go with it just yet.
Another side note: Scherer sure seems to like Anderson ... a lot. I'm reading in between the lines here. He's said many nice things about both QBs, but I tend to think he's really pulling for Anderson to improve and sees much more potential in his game than Quinn's. This is nothing more than speculation on my part from what I've read.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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If Vers isn't online already, his ears just perked up and he'll be responding to you shortly... LOL
Oh, I'm sure I'll be hearing from him soon. 
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I know what you are trying to say and I'm sure others, such as myself, have had similar thoughts whether they want to admit it or not. There is something that is a little more 'field general-like' in Quinn than DA.
But I will stress that's just in appearance. We don't know if that's true or not.
Definitely. Kind of like those old Tim Couch commercials for the United Way. Tim Couch. Field general. 
Brady definitely goes in there and commands the huddle. Seems confident, directing his players. I like that in a QB. Doesn't mean once the play starts he'll be any good, but it's a nice quality. And yes, it's just the way they present themselves. It's just what we see on the outside, something to point out. Doesn't neccessarily mean Brady Quinn is a better QB because of it.
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It has been documented that DA does joke in the huddle, but that doesn't mean he doesn't also command the huddle. I think you made a reach there.
I guess I should have elaborated there, or at least worded it differently. I didn't mean that his joking around in the huddle meant in any way he didn't take things seriously, I meant maybe that's how he's different from Brady. More laid back, so he goes in there joking around to loosen guys up. Where Quinn seems more to be all business, and goes in there directing. Again, it's only what we can see from our seats. We don't see what goes on in the locker room nor hear what is said in the huddle. Just an observation.
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Another side note: Scherer sure seems to like Anderson ... a lot. I'm reading in between the lines here. He's said many nice things about both QBs, but I tend to think he's really pulling for Anderson to improve and sees much more potential in his game than Quinn's. This is nothing more than speculation on my part from what I've read.
He does, which is a good thing. I want our coach to say nothing but good things about our starting QB. But Phil has made it clear who the starter is, so his coaching staff isn't going to make the situation worse by talking up the back up more than the starter. It just wouldn't be smart.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Another side note: Scherer sure seems to like Anderson ... a lot. I'm reading in between the lines here. He's said many nice things about both QBs, but I tend to think he's really pulling for Anderson to improve and sees much more potential in his game than Quinn's. This is nothing more than speculation on my part from what I've read.
He does, which is a good thing. I want our coach to say nothing but good things about our starting QB. But Phil has made it clear who the starter is, so his coaching staff isn't going to make the situation worse by talking up the back up more than the starter. It just wouldn't be smart.
That's a very valid point.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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<<sigh>> I have tried to ignore a lot of the BS, but you make it really hard to let things go.
What proof do you have that BQ commands the huddle and DA does not?
--Were you in the huddle?
--Did you hear a player say that?
--Did you hear a coach say that?
I am almost positive that the answer to all three are a resounding no.
I have actually heard that DA does indeed command the huddle. That he has the respect of the players. That he is a good leader. I have heard none of these things about Quinn. I'm not saying he isn't, but I haven't heard squat. DA, on the other hand, has been praised for how he handles the huddle.
Then.........you go and say that Rip is praising DA because Savage picked DA as the starter and that Rip doesn't want to upset the cart. Sheesh man. You turn every positive into a negative.
Did you ever stop and think that Savage is getting informed by the coaches? You, and some others, simply refuse to believe the truth and you twist everything that is said.
DA is the starter for a reason. ----> At this point in time........he is better than BQ.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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I won't wait for Vers to chime in on this subject. I don't ever call people out for having agendas, but your post smacks of one, at least to me.
It has been stated over and over how the players love DA, and love to play for him. That goes far beyond liking him. Also, how you can come up with Quinn is a no nonsense, take charge leader in the huddle is beyond me. I have never heard one word about how he leads the team.
"Quinn gives direction to the players." Is that the jist of one of your comments? If that is the case, Are you saying DA doesn't? I see him giving directions all the time at the line. I would assume he does it in the huddle as well. To be honest, I have no clue what you are trying to say. It sure sounds to me that you are trying to make something out of absolutely nothing, to help justify your point of view.
When it comes to Rip, it's more of the same from you. We know that Rip was backing DA last year, even though Frye was the incumbant. He liked DA then, and I'm sure he likes him now. You're right, he wouldn't be bad mouthing our strting QB. That doesn't mean he would have to say the positive things he is saying, or the way he is saying it. From his words I take a very, very positive outlook. I may be reading something into it. The thing is with me, I don't know who I want to be the QB. I feel Quinn might me better in the end, but it doesn't cloud my judgement of DA.
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At this point, I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense for anyone to claim that BQ can or cannot do anything. The fact is we just don't know.
We have enough information on DA I think to get some good debates going on how good we think he may be, but we just can't make any leaps or jumps to conclusion on Quinn just yet. Everything with him is gut feel, and that's like bringing a knife to the gunfight that has become DA vs. Quinn.
I think that if Quinn wasn't on this team, many of the people that aren't sure about DA still wouldn't be sure. But the debates would take on a different tone. And they would probably focus more on the positives of DA and where they think he can improve. But when you have an unknown, first round QB waiting in the wings, it's human nature to romanticize that he could fill all the gaps that are the shortcomings of the starter.
And that is a complete unknown.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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At this point, I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense for anyone to claim that BQ can or cannot do anything. The fact is we just don't know.
We have enough information on DA I think to get some good debates going on how good we think he may be, but we just can't make any leaps or jumps to conclusion on Quinn just yet. Everything with him is gut feel, and that's like bringing a knife to the gunfight that has become DA vs. Quinn.
I think that if Quinn wasn't on this team, many of the people that aren't sure about DA still wouldn't be sure. But the debates would take on a different tone. And they would probably focus more on the positives of DA and where they think he can improve. But when you have an unknown, first round QB waiting in the wings, it's human nature to romanticize that he could fill all the gaps that are the shortcomings of the starter.
And that is a complete unknown.
I quote you even though you were the post just before mine. I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I believe this is one of the best posts I have ever read on the QB debates.
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Thanks Pdwag.
I respect the fact that you wouldn't hesitate to blast me and that you wouldn't hesitate to throw out a compliment. You don't judge your response on the poster, you judge it on what they've posted.
That, my friend, is keeping it real. Couldn't ask for more than that.
You would make a good manager of people.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Bro, do you actually read what I type, or do you read just one line and then go off on a rant? I can go back and quote what I said, but you're intelligent enough to go back and do it yourself and figure it out. I said, from what we can see from our seats. The demeanor of each guy is different. From listening to them talk, their personality and demeanor are totally different. IN NO WAY DID I SAY THAT BRADY QUINN IS A BETTER QB. I just brought up something I noticed. Damn. And as far as Rip's comments....... how the hell do you twist stuff around so much? Rish brings up about how much he seems to like Derek. Well Derek is the starter. Savage is making that completely clear, so why would someone expect Rip to make Quinn sound to be better? I believe what Rip says about Derek. The guy has full belt of tools that any QB coach would love, it's how he uses those tools. Even if Quinn looks better, Rip admitting that this early on is asking for trouble at this point in the season. Never did I say he's only talking up DA because he's the starter. I said that he's not going to praise the back up over the starter in OTA's. We (obviously) have a lot of QB talk that can turn into a contro, so why add fuel to the fire? Can you imagine the reporters having a field day if Rip says he looks better? And I didn't say that Rip thinks Quinn is better, but won't say it, so don't try turning that back around on me next. 
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When it comes to Rip, it's more of the same from you. We know that Rip was backing DA last year, even though Frye was the incumbant. He liked DA then, and I'm sure he likes him now. You're right, he wouldn't be bad mouthing our strting QB. That doesn't mean he would have to say the positive things he is saying, or the way he is saying it.
Again, my comment is interpreted incorrectly as to what I intended.
Rip doesn't HAVE to praise DA because Savage is clearly putting it out there that he's the starter. I responded to this comment by Rish:
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Another side note: Scherer sure seems to like Anderson ... a lot. I'm reading in between the lines here. He's said many nice things about both QBs, but I tend to think he's really pulling for Anderson to improve and sees much more potential in his game than Quinn's. This is nothing more than speculation on my part from what I've read.
I'm sure he does. He has praised both QB's, but Rish says he seems to be pulling for DA. Which very well could be true, but why would he want to lead the public to believe otherwise? Why would he praise Brady more even IF he is looking better? It's only May, and saying anything different would be stupid.
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I said, from what we can see from our seats. The demeanor of each guy is different.
And that's all that can or needs be said about it.
I've had bosses that I've respected equally although one would be a tough, loud, vocal, SOB with no sense of humor and the other guy would be more quiet, reserved, studious and often used humor to keep everything loose and relaxed.
Both are equally effective.
People are just different.
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Bro, do you actually read what I type, or do you read just one line and then go off on a rant?
First off..........I didn't go off on a rant. I just challenged what you said. Secondly, I do read what you type. Here are some examples:
They say Anderson likes to joke in the huddle. He doesn't seem to "command" the offense like we've seen Brady do in his time, or say a Peyton Manning.
Brady definitely goes in there and commands the huddle. Seems confident, directing his players. I like that in a QB. Doesn't mean once the play starts he'll be any good, but it's a nice quality. And yes, it's just the way they present themselves.
He does, which is a good thing. I want our coach to say nothing but good things about our starting QB. But Phil has made it clear who the starter is, so his coaching staff isn't going to make the situation worse by talking up the back up more than the starter. It just wouldn't be smart.
How is one supposed to read that?
And I'm sorry, but it is plain nonsense to think that Rip is simply praising the starter. You just can't get past the fact that the coaching staff and FO sees qualities in DA that you refuse to even consider.
That's your problem. Not mine. Not the coaching staff's. Not Savage's. And certainly not DA's.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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You just can't get past the fact that the coaching staff and FO sees qualities in DA that you refuse to even consider.
Not true.
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I understand what you are saying regarding Leadership differences.
I know I stated in another thread how I feel DA has some insecurities about himself where BQ reeks of cockiness and belief in himself.
But the reason I am posting here is while reading some older articles here is one dated 5/13 quoting RAC at a HOF conference with Q n A's involved.
Q: "*The abilities of quarterbacks Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn."
A: "Anderson is more of the classic drop-back passer who is big and isn't as mobile, but has a strong arm and gets rid of the ball quickly. Quinn's strength is that he's cerebral and has good leadership skills."
Now this doesn't mean BQ can't get rid of the ball quickly nor does it mean that DA is not cerebral or a good leader.
But what this means to me at least is what stands out to RAC on these two QBs. If DA was more Cerebral and Showed more good Leadership skills than BQ - I'm sure it would have been listed as his strengths as well! So you could be correct to ASSume that BQ is ahead of DA in these skills.
After all its a direct quote from the HC...not some interpretations and side bar meaning and actions of coaches.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Interesting hearing it from the horse's mouth.
It was just something I've observed, pointed out, then get blasted for. At least I'm not the only one who noticed. Hopefully Quinn develops the tools he has and uses that leadership and the mental aspect to become a great QB.
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You didn't get blasted. Jesus. I asked you how you knew.
At least there is a quote from RAC to now back you up. But, how does he know? How many drives did BQ lead?
I am going to say this again............from what I have heard, the players respect and believe in DA. I am NOT saying they don't feel the same way about BQ, but I haven't heard squat.
And I am not asking you--or anyone--to agree w/me. However, until I hear otherwise, I am going to defend DA's leadership.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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Well, you did call it BS, which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for my words. And I did explain to you what I see and hear from the guys. I didn't say, as P said, that it meant Anderson wasn't a leader. I just like some of the qualities personality-wise in Quinn.
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Of course, it wasn't a ringing endorsement. I disagree w/you, but I didn't blast you. Sheesh............try posting on the pro-DA side for awhile. You'll see blasting then. *L*
Look.............I don't know who will eventually be the better QB between the two, but I am confident that the Browns will play the better QB. There is no conspiracy theory. There is no bias on part of the Browns. There is no favoritism. If anything, BQ would get the nod---if all things are equal. He was the bigger investment. And I actually understand it and don't have much of a problem w/it, as long as they don't favor BQ too much, like some of our past regimes have done w/high draft choices.
The new guys seem to be playing things right. If they mess up, they deal w/it and move on. How could you possibly think they would favor DA over BQ? DA is playing ahead of BQ for a reason. And one reason only! Damn man.........it's not that hard to figure out.
Trust the Browns to do the right thing. We actually have some good people in place for once. Quit trying to force their hand. If BQ surpasses DA---which he very well might---he will move ahead of him. There is absolutely NO NEED for you guys to keep pushing the envelope to force the Browns to make the move.
Now.............let me ask you this. And I want an answer. Do you really believe the Browns would play DA ahead of BQ if BQ was the better QB?? Think before you speak.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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That's a good post Vers. Well said.
I have a hard time though putting 100% trust in our leaders, and it has nothing to do with their track record. Up to this point, I believe they have earned the trust and their track record has been one where they seem to have a good pulse on the team, where they are action-oriented in addressing needs, and where they put the greater good of the Browns ahead of any other agenda.
Honestly, we couldn't ask for much more than that.
But at the end of the day - although I believe they deserve the benefit of the doubt - they have made mistakes and they will continue to. I can see a situation, for example, where BQ outshines DA in TC and preseason, but not by much. As such, DA gets the nod because he's the starter and he has the experience. We could have the better QB sitting on the bench.
But I'm willing to let it play out and see what happens, and I will trust these guys until they give me a reason not to.
But I do have a hard time with the 100% blind trust. I'm not sure why. I love the guys we have in place.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Now.............let me ask you this. And I want an answer. Do you really believe the Browns would play DA ahead of BQ if BQ was the better QB?? Think before you speak.
I know it's not directed towards me but I want to answer it.
Last season neither QB could separate themselves in practice or preseason, it took Frye crumbling to make Anderson the starter.
I'm NOT saying Anderson hasn't looked like the better QB in practice right now, but they've been practicing in shorts and helmets right now...he should look good in practice given his arm and if he can read the D properly.
But I do believe that the FO wants to give a QB who threw 29 TD's and 3800 yards the first chance to show improvement.
Plus, the more time they give Quinn to grow before he goes out there, the better, right? I mean, he still hasn't had a chance to be in preseason as a 2nd teamer because of last year. I think it's the "wanting to bring Quinn along slowly" plan.
Now, if Quinn was knocking it out of the park, no question he'd be in the drivers seat, but if it's hard to see a difference? Of course we'd go with the guy with experience who could take a leap into elite status while bringing the kid along gradually.
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But at the end of the day - although I believe they deserve the benefit of the doubt - they have made mistakes and they will continue to. I can see a situation, for example, where BQ outshines DA in TC and preseason, but not by much. As such, DA gets the nod because he's the starter and he has the experience. We could have the better QB sitting on the bench.
I understand and please don't take offense at what I am about to say. It seems that a lot of people on this board think I am attacking them when I am simply debating. I suppose voice inflection and body language have a lot to do w/interpretations. I've always written very directly.............but please understand...I am not attacking you.
What I want you to do is to ask yourself a few questions:
---Why would the Browns keep DA instead of getting compensation for him, especially when it is a known fact that the team needs defensive help?
---Why would the Browns name DA the starter even though BQ was a HUGE investment?
---Why would the Browns want to create a QB controversy if DA wasn't better than--at this point in time--- BQ?
---Why would the Browns prefer that DA is the starter, even though BQ is way more marketable. And yes.............the NFL is a business.
---All things being equal............do you see any reason why the Browns prefer to have DA start over BQ?
Now..............if any of the answers gave you a pause........ask yourself ........what's in it for the Browns to favor DA over BQ if DA wasn't the better QB at this point in time?
Bro.............to me.......the message is clear. The Browns think DA is better at this point in time. However, they aren't positive that he will continue to be better. And that is why if someone came on here and argued that DA is the Brown's choice for the future.....I would set him straight too. You see..........DA's contract isn't long term. They did not commit to him for several years. What they did do was give the situation time to play out and they want to make the best choice. They don't want to succumb to fan and media pressure. They don't want a knee jerk reaction. They want to let it play out and prolong the decision, because they just aren't sure who will eventually be the better QB. I am almost certain of that.
And .........I am almost certain that at this particular point in time..........they believe that DA has the better game.
This is a huge decision for the future of this franchise. I think they are playing it right. And I will fight those who want to push the decision. Believe that!
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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Bro.............to me.......the message is clear. The Browns think DA is better at this point in time.
Vers, you could have saved yourself some time on that one. If we are in agreement on anything, it's what the Browns feel at this point in time. No more evidence is needed at all other than the actions that have been taken. I've had this opinion ever since DA signed the 3 year deal, and I have stated it over and over again. They believe that DA is better right now. Else, he would have been moved. And I think that is just as obvious as the sky is blue.
The gist of my post extends to down the road - not right now - and the blind trust that 'they will make the right decision'. They've earned our trust for the most part I believe. I just hope they make the right decision. I think there is a chance they'll get it wrong. For as much as it seems they've set themselves up to get it right, there is still a chance they won't. Let's hope they do.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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You probably won't like my answer. I'm sure it will lead to another post.......
No, I don't.
It's May.
The pads are off, there's no "situations," and there's not another team facing the offense. DA is properly being named the starter at this point in time. As long as it's the starter going into camp when he says it, I have no problem with it at all.
I'm sure 2 months from now, this whole discussion will heat up. OTA's don't mean a damn thing. As much as you want to think that I want DA to fail and Quinn to win the job, it's not the case. I want to win games.
I've stated my concerns with Derek. He's by far the best QB that we've seen in some time, but he makes me nervous during the game. It doesn't have spit to do with Quinn waiting in the helms. NOTHING. We could have Dorsey and Spurgeon Wynn as his back ups AND I'D SAY THE SAME THING. IT'S NOT ABOUT BRADY.
I want to win just as bad as you. Just as bad as the organization. Just as bad as the rest of our fans, our players, and everyone in the city of Cleveland. Whatever guy gets me there is fine by me. As long as they get it done.
There's plenty of things I like about Derek. Nobody is perfect, so the guy is going to have some flaws. Nothing wrong with voicing concerns over it. Of course people are going to be curious about a first round draft pick sitting on the bench. I'd love to see what the kid can do, but I've never once said that Quinn should be the starter or that Quinn is the better QB.
Not once.
And as far as trusting the organization- Of course I put my faith in them, but they screw up just like we all screw up. They didn't get it right last year, and they sent Charlie packing to the fish market faster than we could say halibut. I know they won't put the better guy on the bench. Savage said our window is open now, and this is our time. Why would he jeopardize that? Doesn't mean that they make the right choice. So, yeah, I do get a little nervous, because there's always those what-ifs and the unkowns. Didn't look like the right guy was named the starter last year. As much as I have faith in our FO and staff, like Rish said, it's tough to put 100% of your confidence in them.
What if Charlie wasn't traded, and we stuck with him too long? What would have last year looked like?
What if Brady didn't hold out? Would we even be having this conversation? Would he have shined? Or failed?
What if the Browns won that game in Cincy? Would people have a different feeling towards Derek had we been in the playoffs?
They're all unkowns. Who the hell knows?
We don't.
I don't know who will be the quarterback will be in September. I don't know who'll look better in preseason. All I can do is look at what we have seen, and what we see along the way and build on that.
*** maybe blast was a strong word. My apologies. You sometimes question things that I can see like it's not happening. Again, they are my opinions.
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
You probably won't like my answer. I'm sure it will lead to another post.......
No, I don't.
It's May.
The pads are off, there's no "situations," and there's not another team facing the offense. DA is properly being named the starter at this point in time. As long as it's the starter going into camp when he says it, I have no problem with it at all.
I'm sure 2 months from now, this whole discussion will heat up. OTA's don't mean a damn thing. As much as you want to think that I want DA to fail and Quinn to win the job, it's not the case. I want to win games.
I've stated my concerns with Derek. He's by far the best QB that we've seen in some time, but he makes me nervous during the game. It doesn't have spit to do with Quinn waiting in the helms. NOTHING. We could have Dorsey and Spurgeon Wynn as his back ups AND I'D SAY THE SAME THING. IT'S NOT ABOUT BRADY.
I want to win just as bad as you. Just as bad as the organization. Just as bad as the rest of our fans, our players, and everyone in the city of Cleveland. Whatever guy gets me there is fine by me. As long as they get it done.
There's plenty of things I like about Derek. Nobody is perfect, so the guy is going to have some flaws. Nothing wrong with voicing concerns over it. Of course people are going to be curious about a first round draft pick sitting on the bench. I'd love to see what the kid can do, but I've never once said that Quinn should be the starter or that Quinn is the better QB.
Not once.
And as far as trusting the organization- Of course I put my faith in them, but they screw up just like we all screw up. They didn't get it right last year, and they sent Charlie packing to the fish market faster than we could say halibut. I know they won't put the better guy on the bench. Savage said our window is open now, and this is our time. Why would he jeopardize that? Doesn't mean that they make the right choice. So, yeah, I do get a little nervous, because there's always those what-ifs and the unkowns. Didn't look like the right guy was named the starter last year. As much as I have faith in our FO and staff, like Rish said, it's tough to put 100% of your confidence in them.
What if Charlie wasn't traded, and we stuck with him too long? What would have last year looked like?
What if Brady didn't hold out? Would we even be having this conversation? Would he have shined? Or failed?
What if the Browns won that game in Cincy? Would people have a different feeling towards Derek had we been in the playoffs?
They're all unkowns. Who the hell knows?
We don't.
I don't know who will be the quarterback will be in September. I don't know who'll look better in preseason. All I can do is look at what we have seen, and what we see along the way and build on that.
*** maybe blast was a strong word. My apologies. You sometimes question things that I can see like it's not happening. Again, they are my opinions.
My thoughts exactly.
I like the fact that Anderson looks good in OTAs. He also looked good in the Pro Bowl practices and we know how that turned out...
More specifically I liked the interview with Rip Scherer where he talked about improving DA's mechanics and how that should help him. I do believe his problems are mostly physical and not mental. He was checking down better in the second half of the year, he just couldn't connect on the throws, which led to him forcing bad ones deep IMO.
Just a thought here...I wonder how much another year on the bench would benefit Quinn...
Say he gets the majority of the snaps in the preseason because most backup QB's do...does that help even though it's against second teamers? Does he get a few series with the first team? Is slowing the growth curve better than accelerating it when you're a first round pick?
All stuff I'm curious about. Only example I can go off of is Phillip Rivers because other first round QB's started sooner.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quinn confident he can lead Browns
if needed
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