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NICE!!!   The last 4 or so replys seem to be saying VERY similar things... Just in a little bit different ways... Pretty much, spot on takes in my opinioin. Could nit pick, but I won't...  It's good to be in the position we are in right now? Much to like... To blindly not question an organization that has the overall & playoff record the Browns do over the past 15 or 20 years, is plainly a poor, short sighted, decision. IMO. "What doesn't get managed doesn't happen". Questioning is what we do here... One of the things anyway...
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Okay,BS alert!  The "investment"? Three years? Oh yeah, that's a "ringing endorsement". Get serious. If they "knew DA was the answer" he would have been offered a five or six year deal, not three. He is "our named starter at the present time". And that's all. A three year deal to "any starter" brings up more questions than answers and you know that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Just a thought here...I wonder how much another year on the bench would benefit Quinn...
I love the fact he's getting another year on the bench and believe it will help him immensely. I know we live in a time where it's politic and financially necessary to rush a high draft QB into the starting roll, but they used to sit, watch, learn, run scout teams, and go in when necessary and it benefitted them greatly when they finally got the helm... I think it made them better players, better team members, better coached QBs and better leaders, IMO. I say we're damn lucky and so's Quinn.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Careful on calling BS around here these days... Refs and posters kinda thin skinned around here... How long was Matt Ryans deal for??? 6 yrs? And for how much? $72mil.? I guess 4 years around 20 mill isn't a ringing endorsement for BQ either...  Not a bad deal for an NFL back up QB though... Just some other perspectives...
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Okay,BS alert!
The "investment"?
Three years? Oh yeah, that's a "ringing endorsement".
Get serious. If they "knew DA was the answer" he would have been offered a five or six year deal, not three.
He is "our named starter at the present time". And that's all.
A three year deal to "any starter" brings up more questions than answers and you know that.
Bro.............to me.......the message is clear. The Browns think DA is better at this point in time. However, they aren't positive that he will continue to be better. And that is why if someone came on here and argued that DA is the Brown's choice for the future.....I would set him straight too. You see..........DA's contract isn't long term. They did not commit to him for several years. What they did do was give the situation time to play out and they want to make the best choice. They don't want to succumb to fan and media pressure. They don't want a knee jerk reaction. They want to let it play out and prolong the decision, because they just aren't sure who will eventually be the better QB. I am almost certain of that.
Oh wait...These aren't my words... They're Vers. I guess you agree with him. I find it hard to believe because of your response.
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That was a really good post, 17. I hope you really really mean what you say. Ammo, I understand your perspective too. It's not so hard when we try to understand each other and learn........rather than stubbornly draw a line in the sand.
One thing I need to clarify......which I obviously didn't. In no way am I asking anyone to have blind faith in regards to this organization. What I am asking is for you all to ask yourself what does the organization have to gain by starting DA? What possible reason could there be other than playing the best guy?
If DA was the high draft choice and BQ was the FA acquisition and the Browns said DA was the QB.............then I could see why people would be more concerned. However, all things being equal............BQ will get the job. And I really don't blame the Browns for that. It's just business. However, I do have to praise the Browns for playing this out and not giving into fan and media pressure. They want the best guy to be their QB. At this point........they're not sure, but obviously DA is ahead of BQ in their eyes. And I don't see any conspiracy theory here.
Again, I am not saying to have blind faith. Lord knows, I have questioned the organization. What I am asking is for you to use logic and reason as your guide, rather than raw emotion.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Thanks for quoting me, P-Dawg. I appreciate it.
I have never said that DA is the better long-term answer. From analyzing the situation, I would have to deduce that they are not sure. That is why the contract length is what it was. On the other hand, it certainly seems appropriate to conclude that they think DA is a better choice for this year.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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That was a really good post, 17. I hope you really really mean what you say. Ammo, I understand your perspective too. It's not so hard when we try to understand each other and learn........rather than stubbornly draw a line in the sand.
Thanks, Vers.
I think that is some of the problem. People draw that "line in the sand" as you said, myself included. I'm stubborn, I admit it, and I don't like being wrong. Just ask my wife.
I think my perspective now may be a little different than at the end of the season. At the end of the season, I was upset of getting left out of the playoffs, and that effects the way you feel.
But it's a new year, and expectations are high. I just can't wait for July to get here!
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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"the message is clear. The Browns think DA is better at this point in time."
Very close...I think to tweak this it would be wiser to state "more ready" "further along in his development" - at this point in time.
But PitDawg is correct. The 3 year contract...but more so the "FACT" we refused to even go to the table talking about a 5-7 year contract - is in fact testimony that we have questions about DA becoming a Franchise QB.
You all can put lip stick on it and doll it up as much as you wish.
As for any BQ comparison...let's see the kid start 18 games and evaluate him and judge him on his contract as some testimony. The contract he has now is one of a 22nd pick QB - which is exactly what he is/was. The next status of contract will be against actual play.
Compare 2nd contract to 2nd contract to be fair. DA got his and its definately a Show Me contract with outs in there as well as excellent compensation for a job well done. But without a doubt...not even close to what a Franchise QB at 24/25 would expect to get with his 2nd contract...especially in this expanded Cap Space FA market.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Just in case it wasn't clear, those were actually taken from a post by Vers.
I can agree with the way you reworded it.Without a doubt Pit is right about the short term contract with DA.
The problem I had with what Pit had to say, is that is exactly what people like Vers and myself had been saying all along. We both defend DA quite a bit, not because he is great, or that he is our future, but rather he deserves more credit then many give him. We just don't know at this time how it will all play out. Quinn very easily might beable to surpass DA. We just don't know. That doesn't stop people who bash DA to boost up Quinn.
I have zero problem with people who think Quinn will be better. They have every right to their opinions. I also happen to be one of those people. It's a gut feeling with me, plain and simple. I don't look at what he did in preseason and one drive to as a basis for my opinion. I do look at what DA was able to accomplish last year, and his short comings. I underestimated him once, and am very hesitant to do it again. Da without a doubt in my mind will be a very capable starter in this league. I don't know where his cieling is yet, but I'm willing to give him a chance so we can see. I think that is what Savage is doing as well.
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The 3 year contract...but more so the "FACT" we refused to even go to the table talking about a 5-7 year contract
Did we actually refuse to go to the table and discuss a longer deal than the 2-3 year thing or is that an assumption.. I'm asking cause I don't really know.. not trying to be a wise guy.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I guess that is a way to look at it.
No doubt the Browns still have hope for Quinn.
The reason for DA mid-level contract is to give us flexibility...and from DAs point of view, it is ideal. If he plays well and we dump Quinn right away, we will up his contract almost immediately...I doubt we wait 1 or 2 years. I am not big on holdouts, but if I was his agent I would say get to the table now or he is going to hold out...and the Browns know that.
With this move, DA has 3 potential big contracts in his future rather then 2.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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On the other hand, it certainly seems appropriate to conclude that they think DA is a better choice for this year.
Other than changing your last sentence after the word choice to "at this point in time", I agree.
I haven't seen anything to indicate to the contrary that DA is "currently the named starter".
No more, no less.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Da without a doubt in my mind will be a very capable starter in this league.
and u will change your mind soon enough ... he is not that good ... and U along with everyone else will see ...
I have been ridiculed all along for saying there is a BOATLOAD of QB's that could have done what he did last year ... and I will once again be RIDICULED for it .... and thats OK ... U WILL ALL SEE ...
DA was the main recipient of THE PERFECT STORM .. he was put in a situation that only one other QB in the league wasn't envious of ... and i mean ENVIOUS just not a little jealous ... and everything played into his strengths and HID HIS WEAKNESSES as much as they could be ... this year ... it ain't gonna happen ...
I will say this though .. DA is still in a spot that BARRING INJURIES every other QB in the league (including the one that wasn't envious last year) will be envious of ... well I'm talking SUPPORTING CAST WISE and right now ... Injuries could change this as we move forward .... the schedule .. well thats an entirely different story ..
DA is going to end up a below avg. QB in this league ... YOU'LL SEE ...
Sorry if I am not enamored with one so so season .. cause thats truely all he really had .. he put up some gaudy #'s that are thrown around on here way to much ... well the POSITIVE ONES ARE .... the NEGATIVE ONES ... not so much .. and there just as GAUDY AS THE POSITIVE ONES ... actually DISTURBING is a better word for them .. but some just want to gloss over them like he's all of a sudden going to become an accurate QB that makes good decisions ... all he needs is a little work and time to mature .... that'll cure his ills ...... 
and I am not a one year wonder kind of guy anyhow ....
as I've said all along ... YOU'LL SEE .... the time is getting closer and closer as we speak ....
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and from DAs point of view, it is ideal. If he plays well and we dump Quinn right away, we will up his contract almost immediately...I doubt we wait 1 or 2 years. I am not big on holdouts, but if I was his agent I would say get to the table now or he is going to hold out...and the Browns know that.
With this move, DA has 3 potential big contracts in his future rather then 2.
The flip side to this Peen (and I'm not saying it will happen, that I expect it to happen or that I want it to happen) but if he never has another year even close to last year, he has still pocketed a pretty decent chunk of change. So yea, it's a win-win all the way around for DA...
yebat' Putin
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I have been ridiculed all along for saying there is a BOATLOAD of QB's that could have done what he did last year ... and I will once again be RIDICULED for it .... and thats OK ... U WILL ALL SEE ...
You have been ridiculed because your ugly, and your mother dresses you funny.
You are obnixous, pretencious, precoutious, and most of all you spell bad and you don't do well with grammer.
You do however, have very good arguements for everything, and I put a lot of weight in what you say. I am hoping to make you the butt of my jokes after this season. Hopefully with DA's success.
The 2nd part of my post is obviously a joke. It should be quite evident by my spelling and grammer. The first and last parts are the truth.
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Of course you will be ridiculed... You should be... Yabber, jabber, jaw, jaw, jaw last year about DA this and DA that... And you were plainly and clearly wrong again. You said DA would suck last year... You can't or won't admit you were wrong on DA.... What reasons, new, do you have this year? Other than, oh you'll see...? I had to wipe the egg off my face last year about DA... Big time... NO ONE HERE BASHED DA AND WAS LESS SUPPRORTIVE THAN I... I was wrong and have said so many times... You need to do the same... You clearly have your BQ glasses on man... It's  ing Mean while BQ did little, he held out, wasn't ready and didn't earn the job. DA struggled and couldn't beat out CF. CF won by default and was sent packing to the Seacocks... Yeah pretty much any other QB in the league could have stepped behind the heralded, juggernaught Browns offense of last year and produced a year of 10-6... Who the HAYTTK??? With an un-proven, 1st year 0-Cord and completely new 0 scheme, a rebuilt 0-Line yet again, an on the way down, aging, nearly out of gas, ( by most accounts here), FA RB, an over hyped, under producing 1st round WR and TE... There were very few here, last year pimping any thing above a 500 season outcome... Including you... Good numbers and bad have been discussed at length here... Don't try to get away with the outright lie that the bad has been minimized... That is total BS. And I'm calling you on it. You’re a no year wonder guy... WTHAYTA? & WITHAYTTBS? Yeah and IF, the whole starting defense gets hurt how well will the Browns do this year??? But, if every Brown becomes an all pro this year what will that mean??? However, none of this has anything to do with you're "Oh he's gonna’ suck you'll see WAG of yours"... No body knows what is going to happen...  To go from where DA was and what he did in 2007 to below average will take quite some doing… More than a good ole’ Diam you’ll see, just because I think so... 
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Your wrong on so many fronts its PATHETIC .. and I never thought i would say this about U but your TALKING OUT YOUR ASS .... that hurt me more to say than it did U to read it ... *LOL* .. Quote:
Of course you will be ridiculed... You should be
sure .. your right ... I mean no other QB's in the league with a top 5 (more than likely top 2 or 3 ) PASS BLOCKING OL'S and then a top 5 tandem recieving the ball and a WORK HORSE PLOW FOR A RB ... oh and theres MORE .... add to that a CUPCAKE SCHEDULE not seen by many in the HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE ....
Ya .. GUESS YOUR MATH IS PRETTY WEAK THERE BRO ... cause that add up to .... well ... SOME HUGE STATS ...
and then just for good measure .. add in a D that will MAKE US ALWAYS NEED TO SCORE MORE (most people use this as a negative for DA .. when it CLEARLY HELPED HIS STATS ... CLEARLY ... and it started in his first start) ...
and then add in JOSH CRIBBS and our special teams ..
ya .. not many other QB's would ahve had success with that formula ...
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You said DA would suck last year... You can't or won't admit you were wrong on DA
Ya see .. here is where the talking out your ass part comes bro .. and the venium u are recieving now .. i HATE IT when people just make CRAP UP ...
I have said since about game 5 last year that da PLAYED WAY BETTER THAN I COULD EVER IMAGINE and that he was BETTER THAN I GAVE HIM CREDIT FOR .... I also predicted his second half decline ... I also predicted he would be here again this year cause NO ONE ELSE WOULD GIVE UP WHAT THEY HAD TO TO GET HIM ...
then the season ended and i TIPPED MY HAT TO HIM and said i was WRONG and he PLAYED BETTER THAN I EVER DREAMPT HE COULD ...
other than that ... U got me .. *LOL* ..
I am not sure how much clearer I can be .. or how much more i can admit i was wrong ..
I DONT THINK HE IS VERY GOOD .. that much is true .. but to say I haven't been on the crow line is BS .. SORRY I WON'T IGNORE HIS FAULTS .. I guess short of doing that I ain't admitting I'm wrong ..
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What reasons, new, do you have this year?
don;t need NEW ONES .. there the same ones i had BEFORE and AFTER last season ... one more time .... here they are .... this time I;ll list them without his POSITIVES .witch I have done almost as many times as I;ve RIPPED HIM .. but appearantly u and most skip over that part of my posts ... so WHY WASTE MY TIME ...
1. ACCURACY ..... he is an INCREDIBELY INNACURRATE QB ...way to many of his throws are just PATHETIC ...
2. Decision Making ... he throws way to MANY STUPID PASSES ... some are even as bad as the post I am responding to .,,,
3. MOBILITY ... he has none ... and when he does move ... GOOD LUCK .. did he complete even ONE PASS last eyar when he had to move out of the pocket .. I know he completed a FEW when he had to move up .. but once he had to ABANDON it .. I seriously dont think he COMPLETED EVEN ONE .. and I bet he only even got the ball in the vacinity of his recievers less than 3 times .. and this is NOT AN EXXAGRATION on my part ..
other than that .. HES THE MAN ...
like i said .. I DON'T NEED NEW ONES ... he didnt show me he CORRECTED ANY OF THE OLD ONES .. sheesh .. talk about putting the cart before the horse .. u want me to come up with new ones when the old ones are still there .. *L* ..
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You clearly have your BQ glasses on man
What in gods good name does BQ have to do with DA and his faults ... they are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE in terms of what they can and can't do .. what DA can do does not affect what BQ can do .. they each OWN THEIR OWN SKILL SETS ... they don't have to share them ..
and OH BY THE WAY ... i have said on more than one occasion .. that if DA is the man and we trade BQ and DA leads us to even one SB title .. I'LL BE THRILLED AND would care less about BQ ..
I been a browns fan my whole life .. i have followed and liked BQ for 5 eyars now ... U DO THE MATH .... oh wait .. you;ve all ready proven math is not a strong suit of yours .. 
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Mean while BQ did little, he held out, wasn't ready and didn't earn the job.
Ya .. whats your point ... i said on the bye week last eyar I thought BQ should start in the 2nd half of the season .. BUT I WOULD UNDERSTAND IF HE DIDN'T ..
since then NOT ONCE have i said a word about BQ starting .. and I;ve said that DA earned the right based on last eyar to be the starter heading in ... GUESS U MISSED THAT ALSO .. cause for the life of me I can't figure out why this was directed at me ...
I GET THAT ... can u get that i get it .....
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Good numbers and bad have been discussed at length here... Don't try to get away with the outright lie that the bad has been minimized
after u posted the crap U did above this U have alot of guts calling me a liar ... and i will admit i aint been reading alot of this crap .. cause thats what it is .. but when i do .. i see 29 ..... 10 ... 7 ... franchise record for yards or more yards than snyone since fill in the name .... i hardly ever see THE #'S 19 ... 55 .... 1 .....
now on to why u have guts calling me a liar ... AMAZING ....
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Yeah pretty much any other QB in the league could have stepped behind the heralded, juggernaught Browns offense of last year and produced a year of 10-6...
I wish u would have quit typing then .... cause after that there was a bunch of CRAP .... all valid before the season .. but to type it after the season is just far below being shallow ...
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1st year 0-Cord and completely new 0 scheme,
U mean the O-Coordinator that had guys RUNNING WIDE OPEN ALL OVER THE FIELD ALL YEAR LONG ... thats great bro .. he was UNPROVEN so he must not have a clue .. u mean the same one that WE LOCKED UP with whatever the hell we gave him after the year ...
I said and guys that know football agreed that they could not remember an O that had so many guys running so wide open so consistently for such a pro longed period of time ...
NOW ... he did have alot to work with and he did it against the SAME PUTRID SCHEDULE that DA got to play against ...
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a rebuilt 0-Line yet again
U mean the one with Joe Thomas and Stieny ANCHORING IT .... and tghen we had Tuck come in off the bench when McKinnie went down .. U mean the TOP 5 IF NOT TOP 3 PASS BLOCKING OL ....
that OL???? what a MIRACLE DA worked ...
DUDE all but one or two QB's in the league would give there right testicle to work behind this OL ESPECAILLY AGAINST THAT SCHEDULE and with the "rookie" OC, the new O and the UNKNOWS and washed up ones at the skill positions .. and u call me a liar ...
I'm not even quote U on the recievers and RB .... the tandem he had to throw it to was top 5 ... the RB was a WORKHORSE PLOW ...
POOR DA ... having to suffer behind this putrid cast ...
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WTHAYTA? & WITHAYTTBS?
*LOL* ... that the heck does that stand for .. u should know thats way the hell over my head ... KISS for me bro .. so U wanna clue me in ..
and U can clarify this one for me while your at it ..
HAYTTK???
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Yeah and IF, the whole starting defense gets hurt how well will the Browns do this year???
not very good ..... no clue what your point is here either bro ..
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But, if every Brown becomes an all pro this year what will that mean???
DA did it and if it wasn't for him they wouldn't have????
again .. no clue what that has to do with the price of tea in china ...
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However, none of this has anything to do with you're "Oh he's gonna’ suck you'll see WAG of yours"... No body knows what is going to happen...
Ahh .. now i get it ... just like theres many different ways to skin a cat theres many different ways to tell me I don't have a crystal ball ... *L* ..
and if we dont ahve opinions WHY ARE WE HERE .. it seems to me anything short of praising DA all the time is going to get someone ripped ..
look bro .. JUST CAUSE YOUR TO QUICK to dismiss what U thought after a year in witch he SHOWED THE SAME FLAWS doesn't make it WRONG not to follow your lead ...
don't be mad at me for your shortcomings bro ...
I THINK HE IS NOT NEAR AS GOOD AS FOLKS MAKE HIM OUT TO BE ... I BELEIVE HE WILL END UP A BELOW AVG. QB IN THIS LEAGUE ..... that is far from SUCKING as u so elequantly put it ... but its how i feel .. and i gave VALID REASONS AS TO WHY ... thats ALL I GOT ... sorry if it isn't enough for U or offends U ... but its my story and i'm sticking to it .. 
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To go from where DA was and what he did in 2007 to below average will take quite some doing… More than a good ole’ Diam you’ll see, just because I think so...
i actually have his skill set to back me up also .. but ....
YOU'LL SEE .....
I still love u bro ... I hope all is well ....
Hang in and Enjoy my friend ...
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I am hoping to make you the butt of my jokes after this season. Hopefully with DA's success.
Me to bro ... We'll see ....
hope "We'll See" don't offend Boise the way "You'll see" did ...
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Oh good, I was thinking this board had gone soft. Vers, 017, and Pdawg were sharing a group hug when Diam and Boise brought back the funk. Nice!
Hey Boise, whaddya say we put a 4-letter limit on the acronyms, eh? KJRFHGFRL! You know?
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I figured out the "Who in the HAYTTK (hell are you trying to kid). The others were TMFMTFO. Speaking of the funk. I don't completey agree with Diam, but I can understand every point he is making and they all have more than a little merit. In addition, I think he masterfully defended being called a liar. As for the other guy, pfft. It was nothing more than a personal attack containing few, if any, valid points. DA deserves a lot of credit for what he did. For which I have given him much credit. Still, none of it was not done on an island. It's a team sport.
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"The problem I had with what Pit had to say, is that is exactly what people like Vers and myself had been saying all along. We both defend DA quite a bit, not because he is great, or that he is our future, but rather he deserves more credit then many give him."
I understand this syndrome of posting - as much of my Orange and Brown glasses reputation stems from the insanity that comes from many a over reactions. As for judging Vers and you...well you're not exactly the same posters. But I won't go there.
Still this debate can be done without paying attention to the extremists. Cause there isn't a clear cut Black n White and a defined wrong side on this subject. Its a honest to good real QB debate with possibly two NFL QBs involved...not like others we had in the past. Both are young and haven't hit their full potential.
Justifying an extreme position in this debate with - ITS all Good and Just cause its a moral imperitive to counter balance equal obsession of the other degree. Sorry, that just doesn't fly with me and others. I've been very fair and accurate with my observations. And yet rediculed by Vers cause I chose to discuss this subject in a football manner and share some knowledge I have on the subject...All in the name of Balancing Extremist...sorry I ain't buying that as a motive of agenda.
I thought the DA bashing was uncalled for in the season and started a thread to give DA his due in mid-season. But once the season is over I'm sorry, its what the off season should be about. Discussion on our opinions - Fears and Confidence that we see in the QB situation. You can't justify Extremism and point the finger at others and state it is Justified. 2 wrongs are never make a right.
I defend DA as much as I criticize him. Do I think he is our future Franchise QB...from all the data I've been able to absorb from what I have seen from him. I simply do not. I don't even see an avg. NFL QB at this point. What I do have is the good sense to understand why our FO and Coaching staff like DA and understand he is a Kid 24/25 this season. If they feel he can Improve via leaps and bounds (which is possible) - I'm willing to sit back and watch.
What I also do know - is that if BQ keeps progressing as well as he has been reported to be progressing. The Leash (time frame) that will be given to DA will be shortened to see his development to completion.
All the rest in between is just speculation on what will happen in the future. Unfortunately so much of that speculation can only be proven in the heat of the battle of Regular season games. So not much will be answered until after the season starts. I for one just hope its not too late to make necessary changes if need be.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Great post .. I walked away a better and more knowledgable football fan after reading it
ditto. 
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All Pro
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Well at least I got you to spend some time here... Even if you are FOC... I got down to 3 for you... Hows that? I love you too man., hope this finds you and yours well. All is good. THX Wrong about you being wrong??? Nah… You’re entitled… Dude pathetic, come on. We are all entitled to our opinions. That’s not the rub. I thought your reply was total crap and still do... To bad crap begets crap on here theses days... So here is to continuing that fine tradition... You only restated the same ole crap, IMO, discussions that most have been having since CF got traded last year... Most of us have all agreed on or discussed DA short comings and strengths. The schedule, which by the way teams are given based partly upon past performance... DA negatives have been like a broken record on here... I have contributed to that too... IMO you did lie about DA’s negatives not being brought up, discussed and mentioned on here… Are you kidding me? You’re a fairly smart guy, if you want too you’ll figure out the abreviations... Um, Can’t write them… The 0-Line ranked 2-3? By whom? The QB is a big part of protection, sacks or no sacks, by moving, sliding, getting rid of the ball on time, on target and by throwing it away, in the dirt, over the receiver and even to the other team. The Browns receiving tandem had done what in Cleveland, before last year outside of Jr.? Under produced and over hyped, fits prior to 2007. Who was throwing them the pill in 2007? Oh sorry, I forgot any QB could have made those plays... Like JL said recently "when there are 6 or 7 in the box my job is much easier"... I wonder why that is? JL got a one year deal last year and there viable reasons for that. And many, many here thought he was done... Glad he is not and I was not one of those... Thank GOD. I love the guys, attitude and game. Always have... Love the fact that he has a new deal and will be a Brown for awhile... So are we to penalize the 0 and DA for a crappy D? They still have to be aggressive, attack and score. That seems to be what the new 0 scheme is about...? So if the D improves this year, is it going to be OK with you and others if the 0 #'s decline, fewer TD's, yards, big plays in all phases? Or will that be more justification in you case against DA? Its funny how stats are for losers but when pushed you seem to lean on them some...?  JC is JC he impacts the game in all phases... It's what he does and why he's on the roster... The Pro-Bowl roster too... You can't play take away with JC... Or at least I won't let you get away with that...  I have not been a huge DA guy or supporter... Still have my doubts too... I'm not saying and never have that DA is Brady or PM. Or any other QB for that matter. By the way those guys have pretty good talent and coaching staffs around them as well. And have for several years. TB who’d a thunk??? We know DA throws picks... I know he always has... I've been watching him do it for a lot longer than you and most anyone else here... Decisions, accuracy, set up footwork, throwing on the run, overall throwing mechanics... Preaching to the choir again bro... That goes for DA's other areas of concerns too... There is no perfect QB... Never has been. Talking out my arse... So what's new... Making crap up? Nah... You did more that represent last year before DA’s and the Browns success, that DA would not cut it and was a poor NFL QB. If you wiped the egg off your face and admitted what you wrote about DA then I missed it. Sorry. My bad. This is the first time I remember reading and realizing it. Ignore his faults? You? Come on... Your condescension is alarming even raging OOC... Why don't you publish what you think DA strengths are? Try something out of the box, something new, foreign and alien for you...  My point with the BQ statement is that this is a BQ thread... A token mention of his status to remain in the threads line of sight... So until next time…
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1st String
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how can you walk away more knowledgeable when these are the same talking points wrapped in different paper? nothing new has been said, no new revelations have come to light, just more developed opinions. im definitely not smarter having wasted my time on this thread; perhaps a bit frustrated. i can go to (almost) any message board and hear this same arguement...and the topic doesn't even need to be the same. 1: suzukis are the best bike to buy! 2: no theyre not, yamahas are. 1: suzukis are better because of a, b, and c. 2: ha! a doesn't count, you misinterpreted b, and you dont even know what c means. 1: yeah huh....youre a doody head. who like pie? 
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Did you just say doody head?
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Your a smart guy... DA does deserve his share of the credit... But assuming DA is an island on this after all that has been discussed is short sighted, in the least... Diam, IMO, and there is proof by his own admission, is writing the same crap he did last year, before the Browns and DA's success... And after as he represents... Diam did try to lie or at least misrepresented that all DA weakness's haven't been mentioned, discussed, argued at lenght and the horse has been flogged long ago... Personal attack on Diam??? WAYTTK? Diam and I have been around the block on this and many other issues over 7 plus years... That you are obviously unaware of... Until next time...
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You have been the biggest homer of what I consider to be knowledgeable posters. That being said, I do re-examine my thought about DA when you post more negatives of DA and seem to favor Quinn. I remeber you're thread giving DA his due. I don't think you have been unfair at all. Like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinions. What irks me is the amount of posters who have had very little respect for DA, and what I consider absurd reasons for backing Quinn (like pointing to his one series in the regular season).
Nobody will ever confuse Vers and me, ever. It took me a long time to warm up to him. I respect him. I know he can come off as an idiot at times, but I think it has more to do with his writing style, then anything else. Just like you, he is very knowledgeable. I think when you have two strong personalities that disagree, fireworks happen. I will say this, since he returned and started calling out people, they seem to have changed what they have been writing. I don't know if they realized how negative they sounded, which wasn't their intent, or they just didn't want to hear it anymore. Either way, I enjoy it. It's not as much DA sucks, Quinn is God, or vice versa.
I bet if we all met and had a couple of beers, we wouldn't take so much offense to each others words. I know that since I have met many on this board, I approach them differently. I realize that their typed words are indicitive of their true personality. On more then one occasion you have reminded me that things don't always translate well on message boards.
I think this whole cumbuya rant has gone on long enough. I am making myself out to be more of a sap that I really am.
#gmstrong
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I bet if we all met and had a couple of beers, we wouldn't take so much offense to each others words.
Now we're talkin'.
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Legend
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Just clicking
Has anyone figured out why it matters one way or the other who our QB is as long as we are winning?
Just wondering if there was as much access to the internet and websites like this when he played, what would be said about Bernie Kosar after a loss?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It'd be the same as it was then... Damn those Broncos!!!
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Hall of Famer
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Diam and I have been around the block on this and many other issues over 7 plus years... That you are obviously unaware of... Until next time...
Well, until I saw the love fest you two have shared in these posts I had no idea. It all looks for good now.
#gmstrong
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It'd be the same as it was then... Damn those Broncos!!!
LOL How much you wanna bet that it would be more like,, That dang Kosar had horrible footwork and he can't move out of the pocket
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Great point.... It has been made countless times... By many of us... Bottom line is it doesn't work that way, here... It obviously does matter... Good point about BK too... BK was a Cleveland football god/icon so who knows... IMO, he would not have been blamed for much, even when he deserved so...
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Legend
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To bad crap begets crap on here theses days... So here is to continuing that fine tradition
*LOL* ... thats the spirit ... and all i say is that my crap is a hell of alot more pallatable then your crap .. *L* ..
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IMO you did lie about DA’s negatives not being brought up, discussed and mentioned on here… Are you kidding me?
Actually bro .. no I;m not .. U know me VERY VERY WELL .. why would u call me aliar right out of the gate .. thats WAY TO HARSH FOR WHAT I DID ..
and then i ADMITTED that I hardly read anything over the last 3 months .. no clue why u would call me liar right away ... people build up credibility with what they do .. and u can call me alot of things . but a LIAR would not even be close to the middle of the list much less the top ..
LOW BLOW BRO .... way to harsh .. that would be like me calling U WAY TO UPTIGHT cause u acted like a tight ass once ... not even close to the truth ...
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The 0-Line ranked 2-3? By whom?
Are u looking for answer other than ... ANYONE WITH A CLUE ... and I said PASS BLOCKING against the schedule we played last year ..
and BTW .. I could care less how the schedule is derived .. but its derived based on last eyars performance is a LOC ... .. we did not get the NFC West and AFC East last year based on our performance from the year before ... we got them BASED ON THE ROTATION that has been set up .. just like we get the NFC east and AFC South this year I believe ..
We play 16 games .. and I believe that two of them are based on how we finished the year before ..
back to the OL ...
so where would U rank them bro .. and witch ones would U take over ours???
Ya, i thought so .. OURS IS PRETTY DAMM GOOD ..
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The QB is a big part of protection, sacks or no sacks, by moving, sliding, getting rid of the ball on time, on target and by throwing it away, in the dirt, over the receiver and even to the other team.
and DA used all of those methods at one time or another last year .. *L* ..
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The Browns receiving tandem had done what in Cleveland, before last year outside of Jr.? Under produced and over hyped, fits prior to 2007. Who was throwing them the pill in 2007? Oh sorry, I forgot any QB could have made those plays...
#1 I didnt say any .. i said MOST .. ALOT .. thats far from ANY ...
#2 ... U mean the recievers named Brey and KW ... well lets look ..
Brey was a 3rd year reciever who BLEW OUT HIS KNEE in the latter part of his rookie year .. Hmm .. how long does it take EVERYONE TO GET BACK TO FULL STRENGHT following that surgery .. OH YA ... 2 YEARS would be the correct answer ...
and NOT MANY WR'S BLOSSOM IN THEIR 3RD YEAR .. hardly any ... especially ones that play with HORRIBLE OFFENSES with BUMS on the OL .. BUMS at QB .. and BUMS at RB ..
Ya . thats a great argument ..
same with KW ... he had NOTHING HERE his 3rd and 4th years .. and his 3rd year he was a SHADOW OF HIS SELF ..
U are actually making my case for me bro ..
THESE GUYS WERE ..... YOUNG ... HURT ... AND HAD NOTHING AROUND THEM ... then U give them a VERY VERY GOOD OL ... a VERY VERY GOOD RB .... ALLOW THEM TO RECOVER FROM THEIR INJURIES ... and a STRONG ARMED QB that can make some incredibily accuratte throws and they shine and U want to BLINDLY BELIEVE that Da was the ONLY QB that could have done that ..... PFFT ... is that better than you'll see ... *L* ..
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Its funny how stats are for losers but when pushed you seem to lean on them some...?
Please .. GO SHOW ME WHERE I USED A STAT .... go ahead .. SHOW ME .. U just made that up bro .. WHERE DID I USE A STAT TO STATE MY CASE ....
go show me .. FACT IS .... I know enough about football to make my points without using stats .. CAUSE THEY ARE FOR LOSERS ...
now go ahead .. SHOW ME ...
and if the O's stats go down .. I will not slam DA for that .. our O;s stats are going to go down .. I EXPECT IT ...
penalize the O for the D .. look bro .. THE O BENIFITED FROM THE D IN THAT THE STATS SOME LOVE TO THROW AROUND WERE INCREASED BECAUSE OF HOW BAD THE D WAS ... if u can;t see that .. then I been giving U to much credit ..
was this good for our team?? NOPE ... but it is STILL A FACT ,....
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JC is JC he impacts the game in all phases... It's what he does and why he's on the roster... The Pro-Bowl roster too... You can't play take away with JC... Or at least I won't let you get away with that...
U may as well ahve used acryonoms(U know .. those letter things) there .. cause I have NO CLUE what in the heck your trying to say .. try again .. do it slower so I have a shot to get it ..
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If you wiped the egg off your face and admitted what you wrote about DA then I missed it. Sorry. My bad. This is the first time I remember reading and realizing it.
Apology Accepted .. BECAUSE I HAVE ...
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Why don't you publish what you think DA strengths are? Try something out of the box, something new, foreign and alien for you...
BEEN THERE .. DONE THAT ALSO .... when the year first ended i made it a point to always START WITH HIS STRENGTHS ....
did u even read my last post .. cause i said in there why i wont do it again .. but i wll for u cause even though u now think i am a liar your my brother and i hold out hope for U ..
DA STRENGHTS ........ DA'S STRENGTHS .... DA'S STRENGTHS .. I dotn want u to miss it this time ..
1. ARM STRENGTH ...
2. Height and Toughness ...
3. Incredibely Accuratte (on SOME THROWS ... )
4. gets rid of the ball quickly ...
those are his strenghts .. unfortunately TWO FO THEM ARE ALSO WEAKNESSES ...
is that better??? I hope so cause its all HES EARNED and therefore all your getting ..
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Palatable crap... LOL We digress... Sorry about the harshness man... Lie is harsh even for you... I tried to soften it later by saying misrepresented... That more palatable? Hope so... Tight arse me, only once? Thanks, you are very forgiving and kind. "I ams what I ams" Still not buying the DA faults have not been discussed. Horsy long dead and rotten... Pass blocking 0-Lines I'll take the Pats, Dolts, GB, Boys & NO. Top 5... Then Zona, Bungs, Texans and Browns about even... Off the top of my head... I think the Browns can improve to close to top 6 or 7. WR's BE did finally come around in 2007... Play to his po prior? NO. He doesn't get a pass in my book just because of his injury. He didn't play well and pouted, lacked poise and was a definite distraction the year after his injury. Who was the QB throwing to him in 2007? I know you know... I gave Jr. his pass, due... He has earned it. So ...? Great players make plays and lead by example no matter who the bums are around them... No way you’re winning that one bro... *L* Nor is that helping your case either... Who was throwing to those two PB'ers again? Did that have anything to do with all 3 of them going to the P-Bowl? Yeah, probably… "and i will admit i aint been reading alot of this crap .. cause thats what it is .. but when i do .. i see 29 ..... 10 ... 7 ... franchise record for yards or more yards than snyone since fill in the name .... i hardly ever see THE #'S 19 ... 55 .... 1 ..... " I'll give on this one... I thought you were going down stat row. Did I bring up the schedule? It is what it is... Glad you caught my DA protection jab... The D thing, you haven't been giving me to much credit... The 0 scheme is attack and be aggressive, I don't see Chud backing down from that. Maybe a little if he can run it for a buck 150+ every game against anyone @ anytime... There are so many variables that went right and wrong... Many are directly connected and some aren't. The Browns 2007 and DA were what they were… Better than any of us, IMO, really hoped and dreamed… Thanks for humoring me and or gracing me with your humble list of DA strengths... It is appreciated... IMO, I don't believe that is your complete list or your best honest effort but I'll accept it as it is... Take care my Browns Brother... Stay in touch.
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I'd say that our line is better pas blocking than all of those listed. The ones you have us even with aren't even close.
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Fair enough... I respect your opinion and you're entitled to it... What do you base your statments, opinions on? What should the criteria be for comparing or for our disscussion?
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I'd say sacks per drop back would be a fair statistic. However I cannot find a place that shows how many sacks each team allowed.
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