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Not just a reply to you........but i think if people want to have a serious discussion on the matter, talking about stuff 400 years ago, or even 100 years ago is foolish.
The most important period of time is say the last 30 years. That is all that really matters because it is in that period of time where people who are still alive and able to seek or create change in ways and attitudes have grown up.
You can't talk to some black man who's only real chance of making a living in the 40's or 50's was tap dancing or shining shoes, or some redneck white person who said jigger and didn't know there was something wrong in doing so...those people aren't going to change anything in their attitudes....we need to forget them.
The problem is change is slow. Each new generation loses a few more people stuck in backwards thinking and gains a few more who don't pay any attention to race, gender,religion...whatever.
And like it or not, there just isn't any way to speed it up.
Your generation(I assume you are around 25-30) is better then my generation, who was better then my parents, and the next generation will be better then yours...and so on.
That is just the way it works.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I can agree with that.
However, all depends on the parents to an extent as well.
ndutyme if he has kids, probably has been preaching his filth to children since birth.
I, purposely do not have these discussions with or around my child, just as my father didn't with me. I want him to see things for what they are on his own.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.) ![[Linked Image from i87.photobucket.com]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/brownsfan4173/NFL-Football.jpg)
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Legend
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Quote:
I can agree with that.
However, all depends on the parents to an extent as well.
ndutyme if he has kids, probably has been preaching his filth to children since birth.
I, purposely do not have these discussions with or around my child, just as my father didn't with me. I want him to see things for what they are on his own.
First, I don't know if that is a fair statement....so play fair.
Second....it's funny how it works...the kids end up making up their own minds. I really don't think a parents view on the matter really shapes a kids view as much as we think.
Some things it does....this...I think it is more a peer type deal. If you have a bad attitude on such matters, you get left behind....and that works for blacks as well....not just whites who want to stick to 50's thinking.
At some point, more and more blacks will continue to "make it" and those stuck in "60's" thinking will be shunned by their own.
Something has to be working to have a black man on the verge of a nomination for President and very possibly elected President. He sure as heck can't have that happen without a whole bunch of white votes.
As younger blacks see the change, the stale 60's message they hear from parents and friends isn't going to carry much weight. Pretty soon they will figure out it is that message that is holding them back just as many whites figured out they better change their views on black people unless they wanted to get left behind.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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The real problem ??? Ya'all need to learn Spanish 
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Practice Squad
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Quote:
JAY...
what does ^IOW mean?...
anyway...
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The only reason there is "black culture" and "white culture" is because that is/was the dividing line people use(d). It could've just as easily been blondes vs brunettes, dark eyes vs light eyes. Ask yourself this what makes skin color more important than eye/hair color?
you are supporting my point, as i see it...there is little that makes skin color more important than hair/eye color...(there ARE more significant genetic differences between races than between hair/eye color groupings, but that's irrelevent outside of the medical arena)...it's not the trait itself...it's the historical basis of how that trait has been grouped separately and treated differently...
you said it yourself..."that is/was the dividing line people use(d)"...well, that dividing line was made in an arbitrary fashion, but it evolved into a systemic socioeconomic disparity...
*White households had incomes that were two-thirds higher than those of African Americans and 40 percent higher than those of Hispanics last year[2005], according to data released yesterday by the Census Bureau.
*Thirty percent of white adults had at least a bachelor's degree in 2005, while 17 percent of black adults and 12 percent of Hispanic adults had degrees.
*The median income for white households was $50,622 last year. It was $30,939 for black households, $36,278 for Hispanic households and $60,367 for Asian households
*Three-fourths of white households owned their homes in 2005, compared with 46 percent of black households and 48 percent of Hispanic households.
link
i don't see how ignoring these facts helps the situation...
Before i get into my post, how do those 'facts' help the situation?
-----
IOW= in other words
The reason to ignore them is they are based on the same arbitrary dividing line i spoke of before AND they dont help us as a society at all.
I could do the same studies and use hair color or eye color (or any other grouping i.e..weight, height etc...) and ultimately they would be just as meaningless (when it comes to finding solutions) as that one using skin color as the grouping.
The reason i say that is the study doesnt help... because it doesnt get to the reasons why one individual is more likely to have a bachelor's than another, or why one household is likely to have a higher income than another, or why one individual is more likely to own his/her home than another. It certainly isnt skin color, just as it wouldnt be eye/hair color, or height or weight.
![[Linked Image from i3.photobucket.com]](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/lazeone11/ClevelandTowerCityjayem-1.jpg)
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I am a first time poster so take it easy on me guys.I have been reading this board and the old Dawgtalk for about 5 years now.
I just wanted to say that I am a white guy that happened to grow up and still live in a mostly black neiborhood.Alot of my friends are black,so trust me when I say I am not a racist.
With that being said,I hate to hear blacks use slavery as an excuse for them still being poor.Most whites in America either came here or are descendants of someone who came here with nothing.Most of which worked there butts off to attain the"American Dream".
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Welcome Flex
My background is much like yours and from my view I have to agree.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Legend
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I guess you disagree that the media is overwhelmingly liberal huh Pit?
I believe ANY and EVERY news source that doesn't "promote the GOP party line" are "labeled as liberal", yes. And I find in most cases, it's simply a way to try to "deflect the truth" by labeling them, not that they ARE actually "liberal". But it's a great strategy to get people like you to refuse and dispute everything they say. For the most part, there isn't an ounce of truth in it. But many have come to expect that from this administration and the current 18% of the nation that approves of it.
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As for Bush lying, didn't everybody think wmd's were in I raq?
No they didn't. In fact, MOST intel reports globaly refuted any notion that Sadaam had WMD. The U.N. didn't believe it either if you recall. They were right and Bush was wrong.
And maybe you could use a dictionary. I said this war was "based on falsehoods".
Were the assertions that Sadaam had tons of WMD's true, or false?
False
Was the assertion that they had an active nuclear program true or false?
False.
And MOST intelligence sources SAID they believed it to be false. Maybe instead of being a "GOP sponge" and taking everything at face value, you should open your mind up and try actually "looking at the evidence" before making such a false statement yourself?
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And as for President Bush
s arrogance and smugness? Are you talking about how he didn't bend over for the French and kicked some terrorist ass?
So the fact that the U.N. and France were BOTH RIGHT and Bush was DEAD wrong ( over 4000 and counting dead wrong ) you somehoe feel this is some type of "valid point"? Why don't you just admit it? The globe was right and Bush was wrong? That's "reality". It may be a nice change of pace for you.
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When Obama is Prez we can run and hide, start kissing butt again and blaming ourselves for making the terrorists attack us.
Ah, the "party line rhetoric" with absolutly NOTHING to back it up. Are you Karl Roves cousin?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Pat is 100% on with much of what he has said.
Yes, I think the 40 TRILLION dollars spent have been the biggest waste of money ever spent on anything.
Truth is, blacks in this country have every opportunity to make it.
The racism that is alive and well in this country is black racism against others. And that isn't just against whites. It's against Asians and Hispanics also.
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Legend
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Pit had to admit a little while back that he couldn't prove that Bush lied. Now he is back to the same old crap. Not surprising really.
The "same old crap" is because it's very accurate. His assertions about Sadaam having WMD and a nuclear program were false and most of the intel reports said so. And you know it Coach. Well, that is IF you've "actually read them" as you have claimed.
The war was based on falsehoods and it caused panic and fear among Americans. Once that was inflicted upon them, we had the Patriot Act and the NSA Spy program.
He convinced the American people to "give away their rights" based on fear that was instilled based on falsehoods.
And that's dead nut accurate!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Quote:
The racism that is alive and well in this country is black racism against others. And that isn't just against whites. It's against Asians and Hispanics also.
I guess that's why I've talked to some who have simply stated they would not vote for Obama because he's black.
Hate to break it to you, but the KKK is alive and doing well. So is the white supremacy movement. The above comment you made holds no merrit.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Hate to break it to you, but the KKK is alive and doing well. So is the white supremacy movement. The above comment you made holds no merrit.
And then there is the most righteous Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.
I wonder which group has the largest number of proponents, the KKK and white supremacists or those preaching "black liberation" and other black racist commentary?
The parents of my brother's wife, who he is currently in divorce against and who are white have stated that they are voting for Barack Obama ONLY because he is black. Truth is, they are quasi-communists and he more closely subscribes to their political beliefs than Hillary or McCain, oh, and he's black. Hey! When Obama gets 92-93% of the black democratic vote, it isn't about race for them, is it? 
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No, your crap isn't "very accurate", but it doesn't stop you. I know you want to hijack another thread, so I'll just point out one glaring one and move on. You said that Sadam was giving full compliance, ignoring the fact that he ignored 17 UN resolutions and blocked and stalled weapons inspectors on MANY occassions. No, back to your regularly scheduled rhetoric brought to you by Pit.
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OP
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Quote:
Quote:
The racism that is alive and well in this country is black racism against others. And that isn't just against whites. It's against Asians and Hispanics also.
I guess that's why I've talked to some who have simply stated they would not vote for Obama because he's black.
Hate to break it to you, but the KKK is alive and doing well. So is the white supremacy movement. The above comment you made holds no merrit.
Jeez Pit you talk about me being a shill for the GOP. You are a guilty White man. The KKK and White supreamacy are NOT alive and doing well. When was the last time you heard about them doing anything? I have seen them show up at parades and marches. Its usually 2 or 3 idiots standing around being verbally abused and 2 or 3 hundred media there taking their picture.What kind of trouble do these guys cause in this day and age?
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Quote:
I can agree with that.
However, all depends on the parents to an extent as well.
ndutyme if he has kids, probably has been preaching his filth to children since birth.
I, purposely do not have these discussions with or around my child, just as my father didn't with me. I want him to see things for what they are on his own.
You can say and think whatever you want about me, but you'd be wise to leave my kids out of this discussion.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Legend
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Quote:
You said that Sadam was giving full compliance, ignoring the fact that he ignored 17 UN resolutions and blocked and stalled weapons inspectors on MANY occassions
Hussein ordered full compliance in September 2002, and it was granted at that time and beyond.
For the record...how many U.N. resolutions has Israel ignored?
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Legend
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What they do are to continue to promote the hate of other races. And yes, the membership of KKK has once again been on the rise for a while now.
I'm just saying that it's not simply "racism from one side" as it appeared you had indicated. Racism comes in all colors pure and simple. That's the point that I'm making and one that can't legitimatly be denied IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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I have always been on record on this board in any circumstance of polling to say that it's a very innacurate and bunk assessment...but polls taken in West Virginia had near 20% of those asked who actually had the cojones to state that they wouldn't vote for a man because he's black. I'm not advocating that those polls are in any way accurate of the whole...but almost 20% of whatever small sampling of people actually admitting their ignorance? How many don't even realize their ignorance? I mean, heck, maybe they ran the poll at a bar across the street from the KKK offices...but I doubt it.
The idiots may be dwindling, and I would consider them mainly the minority...but they're alive and well.
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Quote:
The parents of my brother's wife, who he is currently in divorce against and who are white have stated that they are voting for Barack Obama ONLY because he is black. Truth is, they are quasi-communists and he more closely subscribes to their political beliefs than Hillary or McCain, oh, and he's black. Hey! When Obama gets 92-93% of the black democratic vote, it isn't about race for them, is it?
They have a right to vote for whoever they want for whatever reason they want. Secondly, is it about race when Hillary claims 90% of the white working class vote?
Thirdly, black people may have opinions about hispanics and asians, but by far, have no true hatred towards them, as a matter of fact, most poor black people could care less about them. You really don't know black people like you claim or think you do.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Legend
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For the record...how many U.N. resolutions has Israel ignored?
Sorry Phil. Don't have a "complete list". This one only goes through 1992..............
A list of UN Resolutions against "Israel"
1955-1992:
* Resolution 106: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid".
* Resolution 111: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people".
* Resolution 127: " . . . 'recommends' Israel suspends it's 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".
* Resolution 162: " . . . 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions".
* Resolution 171: " . . . determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria".
* Resolution 228: " . . . 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control".
* Resolution 237: " . . . 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees".
* Resolution 248: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan".
* Resolution 250: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".
* Resolution 251: " . . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".
* Resolution 252: " . . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".
* Resolution 256: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation".
* Resolution 259: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation".
* Resolution 262: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport".
* Resolution 265: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan".
* Resolution 267: " . . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".
*Resolution 270: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon".
* Resolution 271: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".
* Resolution 279: " . . . 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon".
* Resolution 280: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon".
* Resolution 285: " . . . 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon".
* Resolution 298: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".
* Resolution 313: " . . . 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon".
* Resolution 316: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon".
* Resolution 317: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon".
* Resolution 332: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon".
* Resolution 337: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty".
* Resolution 347: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon".
* Resolution 425: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
* Resolution 427: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
* Resolution 444: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces".
* Resolution 446: " . . . 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious
obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
* Resolution 450: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon".
* Resolution 452: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories".
* Resolution 465: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member
states not to assist Israel's settlements program".
* Resolution 467: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon".
* Resolution 468: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of
two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return".
* Resolution 469: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the
council's order not to deport Palestinians".
* Resolution 471: " . . . 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide
by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
* Resolution 476: " . . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".
* Resolution 478: " . . . 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its
claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'".
* Resolution 484: " . . . 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported
Palestinian mayors".
* Resolution 487: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's
nuclear facility".
* Resolution 497: " . . . 'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan
Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith".
* Resolution 498: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon".
* Resolution 501: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops".
* Resolution 509: " . . . 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon".
* Resolution 515: " . . . 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and
allow food supplies to be brought in".
* Resolution 517: " . . . 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions
and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
* Resolution 518: " . . . 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon".
* Resolution 520: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut".
* Resolution 573: " . . . 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia
in attack on PLO headquarters.
* Resolution 587: " . . . 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw
its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw".
* Resolution 592: " . . . 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students
at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops".
* Resolution 605: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices
denying the human rights of Palestinians.
* Resolution 607: " . . . 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly
requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
* Resolution 608: " . . . 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians".
* Resolution 636: " . . . 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
* Resolution 641: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
* Resolution 672: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians
at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
* Resolution 673: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United
Nations.
* Resolution 681: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of
Palestinians.
* Resolution 694: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and
calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
* Resolution 726: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
* Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians
and calls for their immediate return.
http://www.middleeastnews.com/unresolutionslist.html
I understand these letters are in "comdenation" of Israels actions but in my understanding that is done when a country violates a U.N. sponsored ruling. Maybe you can help clear that up?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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First, America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.
honestly when i look at this article i can see exactly what he's saying...
in the first part we have the blacks that were brought here as slaves.....now i am in no way saying this was a good thing, as i can't comprehend owning another human being....but they ended up here...here being America..
now in order to comprehend what he's getting at you have to forget slavery....
the question i have to ask is this......is a black child better off being born here, or in Africa? a homeless person has it better here than in africa..you've got soup kitchens....hospitals...shelters....forget race....if you have nothing here you can survive.....in africa? not so sure.....especially if all the food stops coming from this country....
here you can find religion....a job...and are protected by laws...
America is still the best place to live in the world....if it wasent we wouldn't have so many immigrants....
how you got here shouldn't matter.....how about being thankful you are.....
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Second, no people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans. Untold trillions have been spent since the '60s on welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8 housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and poverty programs designed to bring the African-American community into the mainstream.
while this quote imo is a little misleading, the gist of it is still the same...America has done a crap load to help its poor....heck we've done more for the poor in africa then any gov't there....
and since most blacks are poor......we've done alot to help blacks....
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Governments, businesses and colleges have engaged in discrimination against white folks -- with affirmative action, contract set-asides and quotas -- to advance black applicants over white applicants.
while i understand why they did this stuff...it doesn't sit right with me.....i get work cause i'm good at what i do....everyone in this country has the same chance as me....no matter the race...
my uncle came from germany with his mother in a friggin suitcase.....she smuggled him out....they came with nothing....now he's successful....one generation....what gives? hard work....
my great-grandfather came from italy....one generation....success.....why? hard work....
my old boss came from italy....more hard work....one generation....
none of them spoke the language....none of them had posessions....they earned them....
if anything is old news and needs to change, its all that crap....best person should get a job...you wanna shot at life....stay in school.....learn....work.....
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We hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude??
slavery.....abolished....
education.....offered....
higher education....offered....sometimes free....
jobs....available....although not so much for any American anymore...
nobody wants to hire us....affirmative action.....certain jobs for minority busnesses only....
and what does America get for gratitude......we'll we were slaves to the evil white man....anyone ever thank the evil white mans ancestors for freeing them? doubt it....
the rest of the article is just pointing out that many blacks still target white America while commiting crimes...guess they didn't teach poor folk how to say thanks....
and just to be fair i'll be willing to bet that there is a ton of crime in poor white neighborhoods too...so i don't agree with what he says 100 percent....but the gist of it is racism is alive and well in the poor black communities...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Quote:
I am a first time poster so take it easy on me guys.I have been reading this board and the old Dawgtalk for about 5 years now.
I just wanted to say that I am a white guy that happened to grow up and still live in a mostly black neiborhood.Alot of my friends are black,so trust me when I say I am not a racist.
With that being said,I hate to hear blacks use slavery as an excuse for them still being poor.Most whites in America either came here or are descendants of someone who came here with nothing.Most of which worked there butts off to attain the"American Dream".
Slavery is but a part of the problem. Slavery created generations of poverty and debt.
Jim Crow is the larger problem, Jim Crow kept black people behind the 8 ball until 40 years ago. We've made large strides in that time, but still have a ways to go. But make no mistake, no one is simply laying all the problems we have encountered on slavery. My main focus is segregation and discrimination, which still exists today. My mother witnessed Jim Crow, and whites only bathrooms and water fountains. If the end of slavery had truly ended the race problems in this country, then there would've been no need for a civil rights movement. Think about it, affirmative action was put in place to counteract the "good old boy" mentality of not hiring QUALIFIED blacks. Affirmative action isn't just hire black people to meet some quota, it's much like the Rooney rule in the NFL, give minorities a fair shot at the same job you would like to give to a white person. You may find a more qualified candidate.
The civil rights movement didn't end discrimination, but it brought about a change in environment where we can have this discussion, where we can truly work toward a level playing field.
I am not a fan of quotas or anything else that puts race above qualifications, but until the good old boy mentality is truly done away with, there will always be a need for affirmative action. Much to many people's dismay.
The controlling wealth in this country has always lied in the hands of white men. After slavery, black people started with nothing, cause very few actually got the 40 acres and mule. But the end of slavery didn't mean that whites were just gonna let us into the country club. From the end of slavery until basically Roe V. Wade, blacks were openly discriminated against and truly had little opportunity to amass the same type of wealth. Now some have overcome those obstacles and succeeded in spite of it. Some have not. But we need to be honest that history does play a part in this discussion. If you can't understand the transfer of wealth from generation to generation, then you truly don't understand the backbone of America!
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Legend
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There is nothing wrong with the transfer of wealth.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Never said there was...but when you intentionally keep other from doing it for 400 years, and then say it doesn't matter...then there's a problem!
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Legend
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Like I said earlier.....400 years is a long time.....lets keep to stuff we have lived.
And your welcome for me sticking up for you earlier....time to watch a movie now...a lack of a reply isn't ignoring you...I will be back tomorrow,
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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ndutyme, I pretty much agree with almost everything you've said.
I think it's pretty ridiculous that affirmitive action is criticized so much. I agree that as long as the "good ole boy" mentality is around, affirmitive action is necessary. Besides, how often is it that a black person would get a job or get into school over a white person just because of affirmitive action? I happen to think, not very often. I know people will disagree with that, but it just doesn't happen as much as many people - not neccessarily on this board- say it does. It's just not the case.
No other people in America have been treated as poorly as Black Men & Women. As a white person, no white person knows what it's like to deal with how many black people are treated in this country today, and none of us know what it was like as a black person in the 60's and prior. Those statements probably won't be popular, but it's the truth. I understand why many white people think that slavery shouldn't be considered an issue, but it's the sole reason why black people are - for the most part - at a disadvantage right from the start. This country used black people as a stepping stone to becoming the wealthiest country in the world, yet black people didn't starting receiving any of the benefits until the 1960's and we expect all to be forgotten. The black youth have never had to deal with much of the racism and discrimination, but their parents and grandparents have. I don't think if the things they had to deal with happened to our parents and grandparents that we would be willing to forgive and forget, why should we expect black people to do that? Racial tensions have slowly eased and continue, and will continue to get better but the distrust is still there. I don't think many black people would say they aren't grateful for being in the United States, but that doesn't mean that all should be forgotten, especially when they are still discriminated against by so many people in this country.
I could go on, but I will start rambling on and on and I know many will not agree with some of the things I've said, but it's ok.
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Quote:
Like I said earlier.....400 years is a long time.....lets keep to stuff we have lived.
And your welcome for me sticking up for you earlier....time to watch a movie now...a lack of a reply isn't ignoring you...I will be back tomorrow,
Oh with Navy? Thanks
I'm being generous with the 400 and rounding down, but that includes the Jim Crow era, which I've said repeatedly, is the biggest problem...you know, you can't sit at the lunch counter with us, you can't use the same bathroom as us, can't work the same jobs as us, we can hang and lynch you whenever we want with no retribution...you know THAT era!
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Well, I agree wholeheartedly.
I've been saying that about affirmative action for years. It's never done a thing for me. However, it worked for my mother. She worked for DFAS for over 25 years. About the 20 year mark. She filed an EEO grievance. Why? Because she got tired of them hiring people, asking her to TRAIN them, and promoting those people over her...to be her supervisor of all things. Who were those people, WHITE MEN. If not for affirmative action, she would have never gotten what she EARNED, and was well QUALIFIED for! So people who constantly act like affirmative action is taking food out of their kids mouths, have NO idea what they're talking about.
BTW, congrats to the Celts, they played a hell of a game. Paul Pierce was insane. You face a tough test beating the Pistons in 7, they will beat you guys at least once in Boston. If you don't straighten out those road woes, you'll be watching the Finals with us!
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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You wouldn't believe the amount of people I know who see affirmitive action as white discrimination. It's laughable.
As far as Boston, they are so much better than they've played in these playoffs and I don't understand how the team with the best road record in the season can't win one road game in the playoffs. The good news is that they have home court advantage against everyone. I'm hoping they win the first 2 @ home and steal one in Detroit - most likely game 4 if it's gonna happen- but it's wisful thinking with how they've played. I think Boston wins the series, but Pierce and Allen need to play well consistently in the series.
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What makes affirmative action so necessary is because discrimination is so hard to prove.
What's up with Ray Allen? I was thanking my lucky stars that he was worthless in this series. Detroit better pray that he continues that trend, cause if he gets hot, and Pierce plays like he did today, then you all shouldn't have a problem. But the problem the Celts have had is there's never been the big three in every game, it's more like the big 1 1/2. KG and Pierce or Rondo.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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So you fight something that's "hard to prove" with something that is blatant discrimination? I'm sure that will make the white guy that didn't get a job he was more qualified for than a minority feel better when he doesn't have a way to support HIS family.
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Well, your semantics are correct, but I don't consider "full compliance" stalling and delaying inspectors, which he did.
What does Israel have to do with Iraq? Oh, yeah, it's deflecing from the point. Same tactics, different thread. Go ahead and try to come up with a witty retort. I'm not letting you and Pit hijack yet another thread with your rhetoric.
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So you fight something that's "hard to prove" with something that is blatant discrimination? I'm sure that will make the white guy that didn't get a job he was more qualified for than a minority feel better when he doesn't have a way to support HIS family.
You just refuse to understand it, and thus talking to you is...well... 
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I can agree with that.
However, all depends on the parents to an extent as well.
ndutyme if he has kids, probably has been preaching his filth to children since birth.
I, purposely do not have these discussions with or around my child, just as my father didn't with me. I want him to see things for what they are on his own.
You can say and think whatever you want about me, but you'd be wise to leave my kids out of this discussion.
Or? You'll what? Type really hard on your keys?
Gotta love internet tought guys.
Notice, I did not, and would not say anything bad about your or anybody else's offspring.
I do notice that you didn't dispute what I said though....
Just as I thought.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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Just leave my kids out of this. That wasn't a threat.
What I talk about with my kids is none of your concern.
But what exactly do you think I'm teaching my kids? Since you know so much.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Well, your semantics are correct, but I don't consider "full compliance" stalling and delaying inspectors, which he did.
Semantics? Saddam Hussein freaked out and gave weapons inspectors full compliance. Those inspectors reported full compliance. What is semantical about that point?
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What does Israel have to do with Iraq? Oh, yeah, it's deflecing from the point.
I believe your point of conention was that Iraq was in violation of several U.N. resolutions.
My point was that this argument can be used as justification for invasion of any number of nations, including our closest allies.
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Just leave my kids out of this. That wasn't a threat.
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What I talk about with my kids is none of your concern.
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But what exactly do you think I'm teaching my kids? Since you know so much.
Now your sending mixed signals.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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I refuse to understand how someone that is so against discrimination says that it is necessary when it is against a white person. So, explain to me how it's ok to discriminate against a white person and not oday to discriminate against other minorities? Are you suggesting the ends justify the means?
Sorry, but ALL discrimination is wrong. You're right, I refuse to understand how anyone can condone or claim ANY discrimination is necessary.
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Affirmative Action isn't white discrimination. If a white person is more qualified than a black person for a job, school, or whatever they will get the job or whatever else it's for. Thinking like yours is why racism is still such a problem.
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Wrong, Affirmative Action allows lesser qualified minorities special consideration because they are minorities. That is discrimination. Claiming it isn't is what causs problems. Instead of elimating all discrimination, you advocate a system that drags everyone down to the level of discrimination. Nice spin, though. I want EVERYONE to be treated the same regardless of race, color, or gender. Yeah, that is why racism is still a problem.
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