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This is just one shonong example of the ridiculous crap that goes on anymore when unions are involved. Cities are crying poor ...... and taxpayers are being taxed to death ....... but let's sue the taxpayers (via suing the city) anyway ..... http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/05/cleveland_order_to_pay_union_e.htmlCleveland ordered to pay union employees for the cleaning they didn't do Well, don't hire anyone to clean up public property. A union representing city laborers has objected to downtown business owners paying private crews for the last two years to rid public grounds of trash. And a labor arbitrator agreed that the work should have been done by public employees. The result: Taxpayers must pay for lost wages that could amount to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Bill Mangano, a lawyer representing Municipal, County & State Employees' Union Local 1099, said the union's contract (PDF) requires cleanups of public property to be done by its members. The arbitrator found the city at fault, even though business owners hired the private crews. "By letting someone else do it, it is a violation of our agreement," he said. That position baffles some downtown business executives, who say the nonprofit Downtown Cleveland Alliance only hired the "clean and safety ambassadors" to spruce up downtown because city workers weren't getting the job done. "I think the Downtown Cleveland Alliance would have loved to have the city do this work, but because the city wasn't doing it, the property owners had to do it themselves," said Terry Coyne, a senior vice president with Grubb & Ellis real estate services firm. The alliance has 55 ambassadors, known for their blue jackets and yellow shirts. Alliance President Joe Marinucci said half the ambassadors give directions to visitors and look out for crime. The others straighten newspaper boxes and trash cans, pick up trash and remove graffiti and gum. Union lawyer Mangano said Local 1099's contract prohibits the city from letting cleanup duties in public areas go to outside crews, even if the crews do the work for free. He said the city should have paid overtime or hired more laborers to do the work. The total number of hours of lost wages has yet to be determined. Pay records show the ambassadors worked as many as 32,000 hours over three years, Mangano said, but some of that work was not done on public property. The arbitrator will calculate the lost wages. City Law Director Robert Triozzi agrees with the union's position. "It is not appropriate for the Downtown Cleveland Alliance to be cleaning public property," Triozzi said Friday Yet city officials enthusiastically endorsed the ambassadors' program in the past. Downtown Councilman Joe Cimperman and Valarie McCall, Mayor Frank Jackson's chief of government affairs, sit on a board that was set up to oversee the program. "There is no reason there can't be a simpatico relationship," Cimperman said Friday. "It's not like we have a dearth of work ... I haven't seen anyone laid off as a result of this." Jerry Schmelzer, who owns the Pointe at Gateway apartment and condo complex, said the alliance never intended to steal city jobs. "We don't believe we are taking jobs away because our understanding with the city was that our ambassadors provide additional services," Schmelzer said. The Alliance contracted with Block By Block, of Louisville, Ky., to hire the ambassadors. Block by Block does similar work in Cincinnati and Columbus. City officials in Columbus are pleased with the program. "We believe the private sector does have a right to keep beautiful the area around their businesses," said Mike Brown, spokesman for Columbus Mayor Michael B. Coleman. "We appreciate that investment."
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Maybe if the Union workers were keeping the area clean the businesses wouldnt have had to pay anyone else to do it. So now the taxpayers have to pay someone to take a coffee break instead of a local boyscout doing it for free for his community  Gotta love lawyers and Unions. Everyone is entitled to our tax money and my car still bottoms out from hitting a pothole 
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It's the fault of the city, not the union.
Please note what the City Law Director himself said in the article.
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
It's the fault of the city, not the union.
Please note what the City Law Director himself said in the article.
If I wasnt doing my job and I lost my company as much money as this guy lost in taxpayers money, then I would be fired.
It would only be fair to fire him and put in someone who is willing to step up and do their job.
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Quote:
That position baffles some downtown business executives, who say the nonprofit Downtown Cleveland Alliance only hired the "clean and safety ambassadors" to spruce up downtown because city workers weren't getting the job done.
"I think the Downtown Cleveland Alliance would have loved to have the city do this work, but because the city wasn't doing it, the property owners had to do it themselves," said Terry Coyne, a senior vice president with Grubb & Ellis real estate services firm.
Its like an episode of Sopranos.
While the city workers were doing there job elsewhere and not cleaning up the area, a NONPROFIT organization did it. But the people who didnt clean up the area deserve the money. Hundreds of thousands of dollars
Whats the odds of seeing a city worker bend over and pick up a candy wrapper while they are on break? 
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This isn't directed at you YTBF, just a general response.
Most of the unions today are not running things properly - I'll give you that - but unions are not the evil thing that many people make them out to be. Without a union, workers have no protection and are at the mercy of the company, who, especially the large companies, don't care about any of the employees as they only see them as a number. One screw up and they could be let go, laid off, suspended, etc. Unions give workers protection from the company. When unions are run properly and do the right things, people would be a fool to be against unions.
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There are good companies and bad companies
There are good unions and bad unions.
My dad work for a bad union.
When he retired: His pension that "would be equal to social security" was 20 percent of his social security.
When he died. His death benefit was cut in half. It did not pay for the funeral, and I wound up buying a marker.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
This isn't directed at you YTBF, just a general response.
Most of the unions today are not running things properly - I'll give you that - but unions are not the evil thing that many people make them out to be. Without a union, workers have no protection and are at the mercy of the company, who, especially the large companies, don't care about any of the employees as they only see them as a number. One screw up and they could be let go, laid off, suspended, etc. Unions give workers protection from the company. When unions are run properly and do the right things, people would be a fool to be against unions.
There is an IGA grocery store near my home. The "union" is picketing them right now. Why the "union" in my post? Because the union isn't actually the entity carrying the signs ..... they have hired people to do so for them.
In other words ..... they have a scab picket line. 
Luckily, business there has been unaffected ..... and know that I spend more money there as a result of the union harassment.
This same union did the same thing when Marcs came to town. They harassed and harassed ....... until they found out that they would have lost a vote on a union. Then they ran away.
What protection does a union offer a grocery store employee anyway? Employees at the Marcs in question were being paid at a similar rate to the Giant Eagle (union store) down the street ....... but didn't have to pay dues. The union sure sounds like a wonderful deal to me.
One more .......
I met my city councilman the other day. He said if there was ever anything he could do that I contact him. I said "cut my taxes". He damn near went into shock. Former double union member ....... he tells me that most of the tax goes to labor contracts, and there isn't any way to cut those contracts. They now simply go to binding arbitration that ensures raises every time around instead of risking a strike. After all .... we don't want city workers going out on strike. I told him that sometimes you have to endure a little pain to live within your means, and if that means a strike, so be it. Youngstown currently has one of the highest income tax rates in the state ..... to pay for ridiculous labor contracts.
My favorite though, was the GM strike a little while back. The union negotiated cuts ...... and also to take over the pension fund (thus ensuring their own relevance) but only did so after going out on strike ..... then agreeing to the same deal ...... while GM was sitting on 60+ days of inventory. Sabre rattling at its finest .. and GM sure didn;t complain about working inventories down a little over those couple of days. Hell, they were probably hoping that the strike would last a few weeks.
Unions might have served a valid purpose once upon a time ...... but largely, that time has passed. The biggest deterrant when new industry considers Youngstown as a potential investment site is the unions. Huge investment won't be made in areas where union harassment is the norm. This area has (now) overbuild infrastructure ...... access to water, electricity, good central location between Cleveland and Pittsburgh ...... plenty of available land with tax breaks aplenty ..... and a sizable workforce ...... yet union politics makes it damn near impossible to attract anything. (despite "serious consideration" by a number of industries over the years)
I can, and have ... and fairly successfully .... lived without union "protection" my entire adult life. Unions in this area are now like a protection racket ..... trying to get everyone to pay ..... or pay the price. They are also like a child ..... fearful of being ignored ....... and doing whatever they can for attention.
I'll pass, thank you very much.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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My only dealings with unions has been nothing but bad  My best friend works for Honda (which does not involve a union) and he is thrilled they do not have a union, since they would not have been able to fire some of the dead beats who worked there.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
It's the fault of the city, not the union.
Please note what the City Law Director himself said in the article.
WOW!! Shep and I agree on something  If the city had hired the correct amount of people or had allowed the workers they had to wok OT it would not have been a issue. If the crews are not working efficently then management is at fault.
KING
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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If the crews are not working efficently then management is at fault.
And then they do what .......?
Can't fire them without incurring more cost than just adding on more people ......
Can't add more people without increasing taxpayer expense ......
Damned if you do ... and damned if you don't ......
And it's going to cost taxpayers (potentially) hundreds of thousands of dollars .......
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You have stated that you have never worked in a union job so your knowledge of union jobs is strorys you hear that have been around for years. Times and laws have changed and so has the ability of managers to manage their workforce. I have worked two unionized jobs over the past 11 years and trust me, I had to do my job and if I didnt the compnay could get rid of me. There was a due process to follow but that is ok, that protects the workers and the company. Verbal warning, write up, 3rd step is termination at companies discretion.This was on top of an attendannce point system thtat could result in termination if not followed. Fired for reasonable cause is pretty standard in bargaining contracts nowadays.Seems reasonable to me.
Now I will say that the city tends to hire a bunch of lay effs and a bunch of idiots are running the show. No a union issue at all.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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What if the city doesn't have the money to add more people to their union garbage patrol workforce? Should taxpayers be forced to fork over even more of their own hard earned money ...... straining an already strained budget? Is picking up garbage and straightening garbage cans even a job that should be a union job? Why? Is it a skilled position? Is it a job worthy of $10/hour ...... or more? (and I'd bet that they get more than $10/hour) Why should such job be anything more than a minimum wage type job .... that kids could easily perform? Why do such workers need a contract with the city ...... and union wages ..... especially in a city that is already has numerous financial problems?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I am in complete agreement with YT. I can't stand unions. I worked at a union grocery store before. There was an old guy that got paid twice as much as me for doing half as much work. He was worthless. But the union would not let the company get rid of him. The company had to deal with the dead weight on their staff, whats worse, the company had to continue to give him raises.
Unions allow people to do the bare minimum and not get fired. They get raises based on time with the company, not on performance. I will never understand the logic that says "person A should get more money than person B because he has been with the company longer, even though person B does a better job"
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I think it's ridiculous when someone says that 'the time for unions has passed', etc.
But there are a ton of problems...I think a great way to sum it up is an old cartoon that has the union leader and the CEO holding knives at each other over the table, while underneath the table they're shaking hands.
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That is a whole different argument. It seems you have a problem with a person that works a manual labor job for a living and seem to think they shouldnt be able to make a livable wage.You make it sound as if $10 a hour is a lot of money. COuld you live on $10 a hour?? In the City of Cleveland I believe if I remember right the garbagemen make about $14 per hour.So you want the service but dont want the person performing the service to be able to make a living ? Nice  KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Yours is a cyclical argument.
Should cashiers and fast food workers make over $14 per hour? What happens to the price of food and goods then?
There will always be lower paid jobs. These are typically low skill jobs. They are not jobs that pay a "living wage" ... whatever that even is anymore .... nor can they, because when those wages go up, so does everything around it .... and the lower end wage earner stays exactly where they began.
The way to escape poverty isn't to make more doing a low end job ..... it's to learn skills that allow you to enter a field with a higher earning ability.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I They get raises based on time with the company, not on performance. I will never understand the logic that says "person A should get more money than person B because he has been with the company longer, even though person B does a better job"
There is always a negative and a positive to each side of the issue. You have pointed out the negative, now for the other side. First of all you start out low on new job and work up so of course someone there for 20 years would make more than someone there for 1 year, thats the same for any job, union or non. Second, seniority helps to protect a worker who has been on a job for a long time from being thrown out like a piece of trash just because some 20 year old kid comes in and can move faster than him. Hell I am 34 and I know I cant move the same as I could when I was 20. The point is I can still do my job, and do it well. I make a decent living and the company makes a fortune. Seems like a good union/company relationship to me.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Quote:
It's the fault of the city, not the union.
Please note what the City Law Director himself said in the article.
If I wasnt doing my job and I lost my company as much money as this guy lost in taxpayers money, then I would be fired.
It would only be fair to fire him and put in someone who is willing to step up and do their job.
Well how are you ever going to "bust the unions" if you don't "cheat them out of work"?
Here's the funny part. If Ytown signed a contract with someone, he would expect them to honor it.
Yet when union city workers stand up for theirselves in such a matter, he doesn't like unions.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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These are typically low skill jobs.
Sorry but working in a fast food restaurant is not the same as being a garbageman.
There is no shame in going to a job and getting your hands dirty and working for a living, and you should be able to make a living doing that. The professional world is not for everybody but they should not be the only ones able to make a living.
So a guy who didnt necessarily go to college or a trade school but goes to work everyday and does a good job doesnt deserve nothing but minimum wage while the company he is working for makes millions? I mean a real job, not working at MCds. A garbageman or a factory worker, or a truck driver,a warehouse worker, whatever. None of these are particurlarly highly skilled jobs but they are decent work and a guy working those deserves a living also, not just the snobs with ties on in the front office.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Working at McD's isn't so easy either. I busted my butt working in fast food as a youngster.
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Come on King, only the top class people deserve to be paid, have health insurance, and get paid a million dollar severance when they screw up.  If these people that hate unions lost there insurance or vacation pay they would be screaming bloody murder, not taking into account that the only reason they have it in the first place , was because of unions. Yes, why should companies have to dig into that sickining profit they make to pay their people enough money to live. Hell they might save and send their kids to college, and then we might have to share our riches with paupers. Or worse yet they might become senators. Why are unions needed ? Look at the number of people without health insurance. Look at the number of people on welfare. Look at the number of companies , only hiring part timers , so they don't have to pay benifits. The problem with this country is, the government is in bed with big business, and someone or something has to controll this. They make millions , charge high prices and don't pay squat. Legal slavery, they would love to get you in the same position as some of the other countries. They say their outsourcing is jobs that Americans don't want, but they are just jobs that Americans don't want unless they are getting a LIVING wage. Yet , they have no problem selling their crap at high prices here. Look at Nike, they pay 40 cents an hour and charge hundred of dollars for their crap, and the only part of thei business in the USA is an office to make sure they get their tax break. Are there bad unions ? yes, just like there are bad companies, bad senators, bad congressmen , and need I say bad presidents.
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When and only when the union workers can get the job done should this issue be entertained..
Until then, the union and thier lawyer need to shut up and go away..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
This isn't directed at you YTBF, just a general response.
Most of the unions today are not running things properly - I'll give you that - but unions are not the evil thing that many people make them out to be. Without a union, workers have no protection and are at the mercy of the company, who, especially the large companies, don't care about any of the employees as they only see them as a number. One screw up and they could be let go, laid off, suspended, etc. Unions give workers protection from the company. When unions are run properly and do the right things, people would be a fool to be against unions.
I agree with you that Unions, good unions, can serve and do serve a VERY valuable purpose. The problem I have with unions is when they paralyze a company from being competitive. Then it costs the worker most and the community even more when a plant gets shut down. You just have to make a drive from Cle, Youngstown to Columbus and MANY or the non-union plants are still open and many of the former union plants are closed. Sure the workers might have made a slightly better wage over the time of existence, but many of these plants sit vacant for decades and completely depress the area, housing values, attraction of the area, etc.
Then a company starts growing and has a choice...add a plant here where costs are higher and unions can end up controlling or send the labor (for an equal or nearly equal product) overseas at half the rate and significantly less labor issues (although Mex does have a decent labor system)....what would you do if you were that CEO? Many of the unions bite off their nose despite their face and and it is also the UNION'S greed that is encouraging the flight of jobs, not just the greed of the 'big bad companies'.
The problem is that we only hear about bad unions....just like you only hear about 'bad' Christians or bad politicians. It's always the extreme cases that make the most noise.
![[Linked Image from thumb0.webshots.net]](http://thumb0.webshots.net/t/34/34/0/73/58/2594073580091396520Miskbz_th.jpg)
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When and only when the union workers can get the job done should this issue be entertained..
Until then, the union and thier lawyer need to shut up and go away..
It's not an issue that needs to be "entertained" it is a contractual violation. Pretty simple stuff.
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Actually, what I don't like is taxpayer dollars being wasted ...... and cities do so when it comes to their labor contracts more than any other spending measures. Once a city reaches the point where its citizens can or will no longer support increased taxation, spending should level off. However, it doesn't. It grows ..... out of control ...... outside of reason ...... and well outside the bounds of common sense. Oh .... and it wasn't even the city .... the contract signator ... who "violated" the contract. It was individual business owners who put together the squad who went out and picked up pieces of trash off the ground, put trashcans back to an upright position ... and other highly technical aspects of the job that will result in (potentially) hundreds of thousands of dollars of cost to a struggling city. Damn right I see that as idiotic. And wasteful. How would you feel if the union had sued all of the businesses in question instead, and put every one of them out of business as a result? Maybe after that they can sue the Boy Scouts for picking up trash along small areas of the freeways.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It's not an issue that needs to be "entertained" it is a contractual violation. Pretty simple stuff.
Somewhere, sometime, we as a nation have to take our collective heads out of our collective butts.
Contracts be damned, sometimes common sense has to take over. A judge should have seen it for what it is. Lazy people wanting paid for not doing thier jobs.. A lawyer wanting to take the city to task to force an issue that wouldn't need discussed if his clients would do thier damn jobs in the first place.
As far as I'm concerned, the minute the "job" wasn't getting done by those that were contractually responsible for doing it, the contract became void.
I know that in my business, there are clauses in every contract I sign that releases the parties if one or the other doesn't fullfill thier end of the bargin.
I also am aware that union contracts are different. But that doesn't mean a judge can't look at it and see the simple truth..
So while I agree that it was a violation of the contract, it was the UNION that violated it first by not doing the job they were contractually obligated to do..
But that's just my opinion.. and that only means something to me..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You are so correct!
If the union had been doing what it was "contractually" supposed to do, there is no issue. But, the union didn't, and people took it into their own hands to pay for the work the union couldn't/wouldn't do............and the union sues??????????????? Freaking unbelievable.
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The biggest deterrant when new industry considers Youngstown as a potential investment site is the unions. Huge investment won't be made in areas where union harassment is the norm. This area has (now) overbuild infrastructure ...... access to water, electricity, good central location between Cleveland and Pittsburgh ...... plenty of available land with tax breaks aplenty ..... and a sizable workforce ...... yet union politics makes it damn near impossible to attract anything. (despite "serious consideration" by a number of industries over the years)
When I hear about unions and jobs in NE Ohio. One of the first things that comes to mind is the Younstown/Warren Airport. They have ununsed facilities there that they are trying to lease out but cant find any businesses willing to move in. So the airport hired a consultant to come in and try to find a way for them to bring in jobs and to why they cant attract any businesses to come in. His final analysis was that bussiness' wont come there because of the stronghold of unions in NE Ohio and the fear that unwanted unions will come into the company. There was nothing wrong with the facilities, it had great location, and a strong work force in the area.
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Working at McD's isn't so easy either. I busted my butt working in fast food as a youngster.
True it can be a tough job, but the youngster part is the key. Generally MCds is a part time first job type deal, not a profession.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Legend
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Legend
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and the union sues??????????????? Freaking unbelievable.
People are going to do what they are going to do,, but that doesn't mean a judge can't see it for what it is..
I have to wonder why the businesses paying for clean up and the city don't ban together and sue the union for NON Performance?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Dawg Talker
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When and only when the union workers can get the job done should this issue be entertained..
Until then, the union and thier lawyer need to shut up and go away..
It's not an issue that needs to be "entertained" it is a contractual violation. Pretty simple stuff.
Is it a contractual violation on the side of this union for not doing the work in the first place? If it was being done, then the business' wouldnt have had a choice in the matter and getting someone else to get the job done.
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Hall of Famer
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Ok first thing I will point out is these wokers who filed the grievance and won were not garbagemen, they are city laborers. These are the guys ho go around and work at the parks or at other city sites. Sweeping up, working n ball diamonds. Just thought I would clarify that.
YTBF the thing that the article doesnt say is that the city organized this program with the local busines owners. This wasnt some thing the business owners just one day decided to do on their own. The city did it in a deliberate attempt to circumvent the contract of the city laborers.
They also attempted to do it at the airport with the Cleveland Police that were assigned their. They tried to replace the police at the airport with security guards. That was also find by a arbitrator to be a violation of their bargainng agreement.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Hall of Famer
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You are so correct!
If the union had been doing what it was "contractually" supposed to do, there is no issue. But, the union didn't, and people took it into their own hands to pay for the work the union couldn't/wouldn't do............and the union sues??????????????? Freaking unbelievable.
The context is a little bit off on the contract issue. Really what the union and the city have is not a contract it is a bargaining agreement. The union and the city dont have a " contact" as if the union is a entity to itself. They have a deal saying the company(the city) will pay the bargaining unit employees(the union) a certain amount per hour, whatever benefits are agreed to , sets work rules, and things of that sort. Mnagement of the workers is still left to the company(city). So the work not getting done is not a isue of the "UNION" not living up to the contract. The issue is that instead of hiring enough workers to be able to complete the work, or allow the employees to work OT to get the job done they tried to outsource the work.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Legend
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Legend
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King,, the difference between the laborers and the police at the airport is this.. the police were doing thier job,, the laborers were not..
I see no problem with what the city did..
Oh, and on the police thing, the idea was to have TRAINED officers on the street where they could do the most good..
Personnaly, I see no problem with taking a highly trained Policeman off of traffic duty at the airport and move him/her into a squad car and let them patrol the streets.
We can hire guard/traffic service to do the job at the airport. That's a much more effiencent and effective use of police in my eyes.
I side with the city on both counts.. But I can see where the police union would not.. Those are pretty cushy jobs at the airport.. nice place for some cronyism..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hall of Famer
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King,, the difference between the laborers and the police at the airport is this.. the police were doing thier job,, the laborers were not..
The laborers were doing there job, there were not enough of them. Its not like they said " ah hell with it we arent doing the work" .
If there are not enough police to cover and a criminal gets away with a crime
because the police couldnt get there, is that the police not doing their job? So whats the answer to that? You either find a way to make the police more efficient or you get more police to be able to cover the job. Same thing with the city workers.
Problem is, this is goverment ran. Nothing is done efficiently.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Dawg Talker
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The city did it in a deliberate attempt to circumvent the contract of the city laborers.
When you say "city", do you know exactly who(individual) was responsible?
I also wonder if the person or people responsible for letting a nonprofit organization do the work, pocketed the saved money or is receiving some of the "recovered money".
So, does the union itself get the money or the individuals who work for this union get their lost wages?
This seems like a racket to me. Like someone knew of the results. Whether it be the union wasnt cleaning up the area, which means they were hard at work making money elsewhwere and making the best of both worlds. Get paid to do their job and get paid to do another job that a NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION did. Or the people that hired the nonprofit orgainization to do the work, knowing that the city would be sued and collect some money under the table.
I also wonder how long the union knew this was going on. If they are owed hundreds of thousands of dollars, then this had to be going on for a while. Did the union just not do the work for so long and finally thought, "hey, we have an area that we are supposed to keep clean. We better go check up on it because we could have made hundreds of thousands of dollars doing so."
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Dawg Talker
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Problem is, this is goverment ran. Nothing is done efficiently.
The same government that receives CAMPAIGN DONATIONS from the UNIONS?
Someone stated earlier how unions are not to blame for jobs leaving but the government is to blame. The government receives alot of money from the unions.
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Dawg Talker
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Why are unions needed ?
Look at the number of people without health insurance.
Look at the number of people on welfare.
Look at the number of companies , only hiring part timers , so they don't have to pay benifits.
For as much as I have bashed unions in this thread, Im not aiming at all of them, this qoute did make me think about my current job.
Before I worked for my company; I heard about how many hours they made people work, their horrible attendance policy, how easy it was to fire people. But after the unions tried coming in, the company was so against unions that they now have a good cost of living raise each year that they didnt have before, safer hours for the employees (alot of people were getting into auto accidents from working 10-12 hour nights 6 days a week. if you left early before they were done with you, you were fired), and im not sure if they had the good benefits before that or not.
So I do agree that the unions arent neccesarily all evil, but alot of companies give the unions a reason to make people need a change. I would have never worked where I work now if the company didnt change their ways if the employees would vote to keep the union out.
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Hall of Famer
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The mayor was part of this as well as the city council.
As soon as the program as implemented the laborers and their union complained that it was a violation of their contract. It has taken this long to go through the grievance process. I wont go through the grievance procedure, but there is a process that must be followed and can take a long time if it has to go all the way through a arbitration process.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Why don't I like unions?
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