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Problem is, this is goverment ran. Nothing is done efficiently.
The same government that receives CAMPAIGN DONATIONS from the UNIONS?
Someone stated earlier how unions are not to blame for jobs leaving but the government is to blame. The government receives alot of money from the unions.
The unions on the national level spend HUGE amounts of money on lobbying. Their lobying is to get legislation that will KEEP jobs here. Unfortunately they havent been as succesful as hoped for.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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The laborers were doing there job, there were not enough of them. Its not like they said " ah hell with it we arent doing the work"
We have a cart and horse thing here.. If there weren't enough guys then the union has to stand up and say,, hey,, there aren't enough guys.. and if the city comes along and proves that there are, then where's the problem. The city didn't buy that reasoning,, why should I?
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If there are not enough police to cover and a criminal gets away with a crime because the police couldnt get there, is that the police not doing their job?
Good point, another reason to move cops off the cushy job at the airport and put them on the street so there is enough of them there to get the job done.
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Problem is, this is goverment ran. Nothing is done efficiently.
And how much of that is because of union work rules..
Look, I don't hate unions.. not at all. I was clothed, fed, educated with the money my father earned as a Tow Motor operator in a Fisher Body plant in Dravosburg PA.. So I do understand the good that can come from union jobs.. I have first hand knowledge of it.
But even my father, a union man from the getgo, once said to me, "there is something wrong with the system when I can be laid off and take home 90% of my regular pay"!
Dad understood that it took a great deal of money to pay guys 90% of thier pay when they were on layoff..
He thought that, heck, if they would give me a big raise, I can save my money for that "rainy day" when I get laid off. My dad was an unusual union guy.. He didn't buy into all the rhetoric that unions were spewing..
He thought that they had thier value, but that somewhere along the way, they stopped being a value to the working man and became more of a burden.,.,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It's not an issue that needs to be "entertained" it is a contractual violation. Pretty simple stuff.
Somewhere, sometime, we as a nation have to take our collective heads out of our collective butts.
Contracts be damned, sometimes common sense has to take over. A judge should have seen it for what it is. Lazy people wanting paid for not doing thier jobs.. A lawyer wanting to take the city to task to force an issue that wouldn't need discussed if his clients would do thier damn jobs in the first place.
As far as I'm concerned, the minute the "job" wasn't getting done by those that were contractually responsible for doing it, the contract became void.
I know that in my business, there are clauses in every contract I sign that releases the parties if one or the other doesn't fullfill thier end of the bargin.
I also am aware that union contracts are different. But that doesn't mean a judge can't look at it and see the simple truth..
So while I agree that it was a violation of the contract, it was the UNION that violated it first by not doing the job they were contractually obligated to do..
But that's just my opinion.. and that only means something to me..
Damon, if you were running a business, ( the city ) and you were responsible for the hiring, is it not your fault for not sending enough people to do the job, or not sending them there at all ?
Now, if you are sending enough to do the job , and they are floating, is the proper way to handle this is to file a grievance with the union ?
(If not addressed than the city could be arbritating this issue themselfs.)
Or sneak around the backdoor and take care of this on the sly, thus by saving money that you don't know about.
In fact this sounds like protection. Does the city overlook violations by these companies in lue of paying to keep their area tasteful. 
What I always find funny is that most that worked in the union, and now oppose them , use the lazy worker excuse.
Well you were a part of that union,
Was everyone lazy ?
If you didn't like the way things were run , you should have made your voice be heard. Talk to those that work like you and vote accordingly.
I would think in this day and age it would be harder for unions to be crooked.
People are much smarter about their money now.
Unions can be good if run on the up and up. jmho
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We have a cart and horse thing here.. If there weren't enough guys then the union has to stand up and say,, hey,, there aren't enough guys.. and if the city comes along and proves that there are, then where's the problem. The city didn't buy that reasoning,, why should I?
Ok, and by the same token if there is enough people to get the job done safely, without the use of OT, and the job was not getting done, isnt the poor management responsible also??
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Some unions are good, some are bad.
Having worked at a GM dealership for 12 years, and now currently having a next door neighbor that is union.......I have grown to not like unions.
Example A: guy stumbles in to the dealership at 8:30 am......obviously drunk. Wants to buy a jimmy. He didn't want to drive one, which was good, cause he was drunk. He then proceeded to tell me that he had what was classified as a "heavy lifting job"....meaning he was supposed to work 1 hour, then his job mate would work 1 hour while he sat in the break room. After 1 hour, they were to switch again, so as to avoid over working. Then he told me that he and his job mate took turns working full shifts while the other one sat in the break room drinking and playing cards the whole night (he was a 3rd shift guy) I guess the "heavy lifting" wasn't that heavy, unless you were the guy drinking in the break room.
Sold a vehicle to a guy, union guy, that said he spent a lot of his work time sleeping in an eagles nest. I looked at him quizzically, and he said "yeah, we take sleeping bags in, put them on top of the stacks of stuff, and sleep."
Both of them, mind you, assured me that they couldn't be fired because of the union. They both told me "it would cost them more to fire me than it does to keep me. They won't get rid of me."
My next door neighbor.......the guy spends every penny he makes.....gm union guy. Always broke. Course, just prior to getting the new contract about a year ago, he was telling me that if it got signed, he was digging a pond, cause they won't be able to fire him til the contract was up. "even if they have to lay us off, I'll still get 90% of my pay" is an exact quote. Well, the contract got signed, he has a pond, and a new truck and new car. That's all well and good, I guess. But he is also going to be the first person in line complaining when gm's retirement doesn't allow him to live exactly as he wants. "I'm going to retire at age 49 and never have to work again. The union will take care of me".
I don't care for unions, based on my own personal observations of them.
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The big automakers is not a good example of how the majority of union shops are run now. Union shop or not, everywhere I have ever worked I have had to do my job, and do it well. If I didnt I could be fired as long as there was reasonable cause and the process was followed. The process was only their to assure that reasonable cause was there.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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First off i sure hope not all unions are being lumped into 1 here. I started my apprentiseship in bricklaying in 72. Ran my first job as a second yr app. Probably the last 20 yrs i basiclly just ran jobs, but there were times i just wanted to use my tools, you know keep sharp.
Anyways we were always [ what have you done for he lately ].
If you didn't do the job you were gone. Sure the union would try to find you another job, but sooner or later if your work wasn't up to par you weren't working for any contractor.
I remember one convesation i had with one of the onwers of a company i worked for it went something like this.
You know Bob your really going to have to babysit some of these guys this time.
I ask why.
He says some of them needed watching.
I said Ya know i'm running a 15 mil. dollar job. I'm trying to keep everybody busy and safe. My problem is they have a card just as i do. If they can't do the job then they have to go somewhere else. I don't get paid 10% above scale to baby sit. I get paid to make me and you money. I was never told to babysit after that.
My point is we were being paid to do a job. And if someone wasn't doing their job they were not working. That's the way it's always been in my union and i see no change in the future.
nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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King, is there another article on this as to why you know so much? If so, I would like to read it. Also, I have a couple of examples like archbold of people working for a union and said they couldnt get fired because of the union. One was making harrasing phone calls from work to somebody. When told that the company would be called and asked if it was worth company time to make harrasing phone calls while on the job. The reply was "I work for the union, I cant get fired." The guy even had phone records for proof. Not sure if he went thru with getting him in trouble. The other one was these 2 guys that were snorting something in the parking lot of a bar. When asked "Doesnt your company take drug test?". The reply was "you only need to pass a hair test to get in. Once your in, if you get hurt and fail a drug test or they think you are under the influence and need tested, they still cant fire us. We get paid leave of absence to get drug and alcohol treatment and they will let you back when your clean." I guess even if they failed again, they just go thru the same process. They even bragged about doing this AT WORK. Now, Im not sure if the union would protect them for getting caught doing that at work. Im sure some people from my area know exactly what company Im talking about, in regards to the hair testing to get in, and getting paid to get treatment instead of getting fired.Ive asked a few other employees and they told me it was true. This is unrelated, but at this same company, there were some people that got arrested at work for running a little sports betting ring. Ive heard that the guy that turned them in was the one that owed them $30,000 
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!st off let me say I am not against all unions. However King how would you feel if a union stepped in and closed down your own family run business just because you would not join their union?
Now let me make this clear. The family business consisted of three owners (all one third owners with NO employees)
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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It is never a good idea to paint a varied lot as the different unions with the same broad brush.
That being said...the AFL-CIO boss...Sweeney...says he wants to protect union jobs. The problem is that Sweeney is an open borders guy...many union jobs are being lost to illegals in the country. Makes you wonder who is looking out for whom.
Also when the TSA was developed the Dems only went along with it as a union job. You think the best people got those jobs???? Hell no! The typical suspects ended up in charge of our airport security.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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Damon, if you were running a business, ( the city ) and you were responsible for the hiring, is it not your fault for not sending enough people to do the job, or not sending them there at all ?
If more people were actually needed, yes, it's my fault., Look at who's saying there isn't enough people...
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Well you were a part of that union
Obviously you didn't read what I wrote, otherwise you would know that I have personally have NEVER been part of a union.
Last edited by Damanshot; 05/17/08 08:19 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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isnt the poor management responsible also??
Good point, are the supervisors in the union also,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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!st off let me say I am not against all unions. However King how would you feel if a union stepped in and closed down your own family run business just because you would not join their union?
Now let me make this clear. The family business consisted of three owners (all one third owners with NO employees)
I have read about what happened to you in the many union versus no union threads we have in the past and I am completely understanding of how you feel. I would just say we do not live in a perfect world and messed up things happen. I have been involved with unions for long enough to see a lot of those messed up things, but I have also seen the positives. The union ideal is a good thing. Unfortunately it has gotten screwed up in many instances.
Another thing I would add in is it wasnt unions that did that to you. It was that particular union.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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isnt the poor management responsible also??
Good point, are the supervisors in the union also,,,
I dont know this for sure, but most likely they arent. Face it this is a government deal, there is plenty of incompetence and blame to go around by all involved. To pinhole it on the "union" is ridiculous just the same as it is for any poorly run business or operation(cough auto plants cough) This is not a cut and dry/ either, or issue. Both sides are wrong in these issues usually.
Places that are well manged generally have zero to very little problems with their union workforce. Do you know any government programs that are well managed??
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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King, is there another article on this as to why you know so much? If so, I would like to read it.
I live in Cleveland so I have read about the program right from the beginning. You would read a 1500 word article about how great the program was but there would be one little line about the objections of the city workers.
The city gambled that they would win in arbitration, they didnt because they were legally wrong and the judge told them so. So now whos fault is all this? Seems like the city is in the wrong.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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My $.02. I'm a project manager for company that large scale wireless networks in buildings throughout NYC. We have a few crews that do the majority of the work. They average around 23 or 24 years old, make 35K to 55K, and most are in trade school. We have a health plan, not a great one but ok, they get a few paid weeks off a year and a nice yearly bonus plus stock options coming soon. If they need time off for school or whatever, cool, just let me know. They're pulling wire. Most of them are basically unskilled laborers. They ain't getting rich but it's a good company and the raises do come about every 6 months. They do a pretty good job and we're growing super fast so we keep them busy. Every 5th or 6th job we do we're forced to use Union guys. Usually buildings that are unfinished and haven't been turned over yet. There are a half dozen to 8 union shops we get bids from and contract with. I've been with the company long enough to work with 5 of them. The two unions are Local 3 (electrical workers) and CWA (communication workers). My experience: We pay the Union shops at least double. I usually need to budget 50% more time for the project because they're so slow. The workers themselves make somewhere between 60K and 90K year/avg. Being project super I have found that I have to stay on top of these guys like a Sargent. I'm pretty agreeable and easy going generally but I'm there to get the job done. They aren't. I've found individuals sleeping on numerous occasions. Individual workers will disappear, sometimes for hours, and they're always covering for each other. They regularly drink on their lunch breaks. They arrive on site at 7:30 -8:00, take an hour to "get ready", take 1-1/2 hour lunches, leave at 2:30 and bill for 8 hours with 1 hour lunch. Although generally 20 to 30 years older and more experienced than the guys in our in-house crews, their work is WITHOUT EXCEPTION shoddier in every respect. I've had to, on two occasions, bring my crew in over the weekend (and pay overtime) just to fix all the union guys screw ups. We've been repairing their work at one building in particular down by World Trade on and off for over a year. The system is functional but we discover some new wrinkle of their incompetence every month. They just don't care. We don't use that particular company anymore but we've bounced between a bunch of different companies and they're all basically the same. Once they've signed the contract to do the work at the property, you basically can't fire them and they know it. God help you if you complain or take them to task. Sometimes it works and they pick up the pace for a day or two. But sometimes, especially with the older guys, they'll dig in like mules, slow waaay down or start having "mysterious accidents" involving your equipment and/or supplies. We, and I know a number of our competitors as well, have started to back away from union jobs altogether. It just doesn't pay. We're a relatively new industry and we're dealing with old trenchant New York unions. We LOVE LOVE LOVE paying good money to people who will do the job. We wouldn't have an issue paying the wages they're earning IF they actually did their jobs. But they don't. They just don't. 
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
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Three things: ---After reading your thoughts on this subject--------I believe your title should have been: I Hate Unions! Or, at the very least: Why I Don't Like Unions! I mean.......were you really asking us why you don't like unions?  ---The story is bad. I understand why it would upset you. ---As someone who has worked as a teacher w/and w/out unions, I can tell you that you are exploited when you don't have a union. I long for the days of having a union behind me. On the other hand, I will say that I knew some teachers in Ohio who should have been let go, but were not, simply because of the union. I can also tell you that I have a friend who worked for Diebold for years. It was non-union and a good place to work. He had less than 5 months until he could retire. They decided to sell out or merge w/another company and he was let go as a result. All those years w/nothing to show for it. YTown, unions have become too powerful, corrupt, and greedy. However, they do serve a purpose. Without them the working conditions in this country would be awful. Wages would be way too low. Workers would be abused. Unions are a necessity.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I dont know this for sure, but most likely they arent
I'm not talking suit and tie supervisors,, I was speaking more of the guys in the hard hats, directly supervising the workers out on the streets.... Those I would guess ARE union guys..
I won't argue with you about the incompetitence in Cleveland and Cuyahoga government office.. Look at todays Plain Dealer to see more of the same ole same ole concerning Frank Russo and Jimmy Dimora and the hiring of a felon to a 48,000 a year job.. When pressed for answers, Russo couldn't tell people what all the woman did.. All I know is that she's blond and built and used to run a strip club and was arrested in Florida in 1985 and conviced of a felony.
Yea, there are lots of things wrong with the city and county governments..
But tell me something,, are unions all run by boy scouts all of a sudden.. do you think that they are above reproach?
So, you can say what you will about the city,, but you gotta, if your intent is to be fair and honest, acknowledge the corruption in the unions as well.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I dont know this for sure, but most likely they arent
I'm not talking suit and tie supervisors,, I was speaking more of the guys in the hard hats, directly supervising the workers out on the streets.... Those I would guess ARE union guys..
I won't argue with you about the incompetitence in Cleveland and Cuyahoga government office.. Look at todays Plain Dealer to see more of the same ole same ole concerning Frank Russo and Jimmy Dimora and the hiring of a felon to a 48,000 a year job.. When pressed for answers, Russo couldn't tell people what all the woman did.. All I know is that she's blond and built and used to run a strip club and was arrested in Florida in 1985 and conviced of a felony.
Yea, there are lots of things wrong with the city and county governments..
But tell me something,, are unions all run by boy scouts all of a sudden.. do you think that they are above reproach?
So, you can say what you will about the city,, but you gotta, if your intent is to be fair and honest, acknowledge the corruption in the unions as well.
No doubt there is corruption in a lot of unions that works hand in hand with the corrupt or inept management in many cases.
That is a whole different discussion though. In this case the city screwed up, they took a gamble that they were correct on the contract issue but they werent. A court of civil law said so. Yet people come on here screaming about unions when in fact in this case the city was wrong, and now because of their ineptness,we the tax paing public will have to pay lost wages.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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In this case the city screwed up
Ok, we have finally arrived at the crux of our disagreement.
You believe the city screwed up and to me that isn't clear..... and I don't care what a judge says. don't forget, the judge is part of the same hipocrasy...
You and I only seem to disagree which party is to blame for the situation,,, I can live with that.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The reason I feel the city screwed up is the fact that there were objection right from the get go by the union. The first step in a grievance process is alway verbal. Rather than work the issues out with the union they just went ahead with the program. If they had sat down with the union and clarified where and how the program would work this all could have been avoided.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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ytown.....chill out man....unions aren't destroying this country....they have been on the downfall for years.....and look at us now....most of our jobs are in mexico and china now... and as far as the article you posted....sure looks bad pr wise..but you know what..we have no idea about a ton of info....did the city layoff laborers in the last few years? did they do the ole....more with less thing, that is predominant in all of America.... what if i hired you to run some network wire all though my house....signed a contract for $1000 bucks.....you told me you couldn't get there for 2 weeks.....in the mean while a family member says he can do it for less (say just material)....so i go ahead and have him do it....since you can't cause your booked....now you show up and i say sorry.....see ya......would you be entitled to that cash? probably..and did you do the job.....nope.... we had an agreement.....just like the union and city..... what if the union didn't do anything? well they can kiss there jobs goodbye.....and you can forget the city ever hiring enough workers to do the job either.... maybe they can't afford more workers....who knows....but to have half the facts and go off is just wrong imo... Just a general reply to those that think union members can't be fired.... there is no doubt in my mind that things can be covered up....my experience is from the construction trades, and there it is alot more unlikely to be the case....i've seen workers fired...moved back down to apprentice....or just plain looked over for jobs... here is a great article on "just cause" that basically states what it takes to disipline...it's common in probably all union contracts... just cause i don't have time to get into this more...but i could have responded to many posts.... our country is founded on the principle of a "more perfect union".....a group standing up for what is right.... to say there aren't bad apples in unions would be wrong...fact is there are good and bad in both unions and non-unions....workers and management.....were people..we all have failings... but at the end of the day, with the condition of this country i can't believe workers don't stand up and say enough is enough....the majority of workers in this country are getting bent over the barrel, forced to take crappy wages, with no bene's.....live in fear of downsizing, or there job moving overseas... its just plain crap... if you have a skill, you should be payed accordingly... if you do any job, you should be treated fairly.... if those 2 statements were always followed then unions would never have existed.... and for those that say unions spend money on lobbyists.....i'm sure it pales in comparison to the amount that big business spends.... and lastly to the poster that says union workers do a crappy job......well i can't even say on here....if i posted info about a few scab plastering jobs that union workers had to fix does that make the union side more credible? cause i've fixed them... i've got a job right now that a non-union so called "plasterer" skimmed taping mud (probably from another job from the condition of it) into a ceiling, called it plaster...and now i have to fix it....what was he charging? 500 bucks....total rip off.... unions are nothing more then checks and balances......and since when is that bad.....our country was founded with that idea too....
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Since common sense has no place in this world anymore maybe the city should get better lawyers. BTW I'd change the title of this thread to I Hate Lawyers! 
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The reason I feel the city screwed up is the fact that there were objection right from the get go by the union.
If that reasoning works for you,, good... it however, doesn't work for me..
Like I said, I have no problem with us disagreeing on this point.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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That's why all the jobs are leaving the Midwest and moving to the South or Southwest....they don't unionize (for the most part)!! It's not the nice weather, tax advantages, etc...it's the unions. Believe me, my wife works in HR for a large company
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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That's why all the jobs are leaving the Midwest and moving to the South or Southwest....they don't unionize (for the most part)!! It's not the nice weather, tax advantages, etc...it's the unions. Believe me, my wife works in HR for a large company
So your wife works in HR for a large company and that gives her knowledge of what all companies are doing? Or even what any company besides her own is doing? 
That really has nothing to do with what we are talking about anyways, unless the City of Cleveland plans on moving to Georgia.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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If that reasoning works for you,, good... it however, doesn't work for me..
Like I said, I have no problem with us disagreeing on this point.
I would be very interested to hear your reasoning on how the city is not wrong. It is pretty cut and dry that they not only violated their bargaining agreement with the union, but they also violated the NLRA which the NLRB would have had to agree with for it to ever go to a arbitrator. The city broke labor laws, how are they not in the wrong??
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,810
Legend
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Legend
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Contracts be damned,
Hopefully some day someone will void, or cheat you out of "contractual garuntees". Maybe then, and only then, you may realize that it's about the legality and "what's right", rather than your seeming willingness to choose which contracts deserved to be honored and which one's don't.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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ytown.....chill out man....unions aren't destroying this country....they have been on the downfall for years.....and look at us now....most of our jobs are in mexico and china now...
The last figures that I saw, has shown that union workers coprise 15% of Americas work force. Those who wish to keep the little man down and feel he doesn't "deserve a chance at the American dream" promote union busting.
They promote that every person without a degree should live in abstract poverty or close to it. Yet many of those very same people CLAIM to be "caring Christian people". Quite an oxymoron if you ask me!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Way to make assumptions about people you don't know.
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Legend
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Legend
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It is pretty cut and dry that they not only violated their bargaining agreement with the union,
Like I've been saying to you King,, it's clear to you,, It's not at all that clear to me.. sorry man, but I don't agree..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Hopefully some day someone will void, or cheat you out of "contractual garuntees". Maybe then, and only then, you may realize that it's about the legality and "what's right", rather than your seeming willingness to choose which contracts deserved to be honored and which one's don't.
really crappy assumption on your part there Pit.. I'm 56 years old man,, believe me, I've been cheated plenty of times..
I'm in the midst of one right now with that insurance thing.. paid the premiums on time,, and the Plan Admin didn't pay Aetna.. so I'm out the premium and the stuff that Aetna wants me to pay for because they mistakenly paid the bill.. all told, I'm out a couple of grand so far and I suspect it will get worse..
On top of that, I don't have insurance not until June 1st.. (I was able to get insurance through HIPAA by the way)
SO don't sit there and wish things like that on me or anyone.. why in the HELL would you do that.. That's just SICK.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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really crappy assumption on your part there Pit.. I'm 56 years old man,, believe me, I've been cheated plenty of times..
Then why would you promote that these union workers be "cheated too"?
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I'm in the midst of one right now with that insurance thing.. paid the premiums on time,, and the Plan Admin didn't pay Aetna.. so I'm out the premium and the stuff that Aetna wants me to pay for because they mistakenly paid the bill.. all told, I'm out a couple of grand so far and I suspect it will get worse..
If you had the power and resources to FORCE them to honor their obligations to you, would not you too use those resources to protect yourself and get what you paid for?
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On top of that, I don't have insurance not until June 1st.. (I was able to get insurance through HIPAA by the way)
Maybe you should be "pro active" in supporting those wishing to overhaul this "unfair system".
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SO don't sit there and wish things like that on me or anyone.. why in the HELL would you do that.. That's just SICK.
Since you seem to "wish it upon others", what's the difference? Why is it you feel is perfectly acceptable of you to wish that upon others?
It was just a tactic to help you understand that you are promoting the VERY SAME unfair practice that was inflcted upon you. Kinda sucks doesn't it?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Way to make assumptions about people you don't know.
When somebody promotes "screwing others" out of their contractual garuntees, why else would they promote such "unfair business practices"?
Why would they promote $8.00 an hour jobs over union jobs wen they KNOW people can't have a decsent life on such wages?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Ok guys lets not get nasty, Daman do you know that the health insurance regualtions that helped you in your problem are things that the unions have had a big part in fightng for?? Decent wages and health benefits for workers is something that benefits everybody.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Hall of Famer
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It is pretty cut and dry that they not only violated their bargaining agreement with the union,
Like I've been saying to you King,, it's clear to you,, It's not at all that clear to me.. sorry man, but I don't agree..
Well I guess it doesnt matter if it is clear to either of us, a judge who is an expert in labor law found it to be very clear.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Posts: 2,659
Poser
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Poser
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Kingo, I must have missed the part of the article that states the city paid someone else to do the job. I did, however, see where private parties paid for the cleanup. How did the city do anything wrong in this again? If someone just went there on their own and cleaned it up and not gotten paid, would the city still have done something wrong by allowing them to do something the city didn't have to pay them for? I don't get that part. Had the city hired and/or paid the people, you would have a valid point.
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What the article doesnt say,but I know because it is a local issue is that the city arranged the whole deal with the business owners. They were told right from the beginning that they were violating their labor agreement as well as labor law by not even discussing this and possibly negotiating a deal with the union, which they are required by the NLRA to do. This all could have been worked out efore it got to this point but the city lawyers felt they didnt have to. They were wrong and the labor court judge told them so with his ruling.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Without a union, workers have no protection and are at the mercy of the company
These are city workers. The authorities (city council, mayor, etc.) should simply say, "due to financial reasons, we can no longer afford 95% of our trash collection workers and that only city facilities such as city hall will have their trash collected. All other city offices and citizens are responsible for disposal of their own trash.
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Hall of Famer
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Without a union, workers have no protection and are at the mercy of the company
These are city workers. The authorities (city council, mayor, etc.) should simply say, "due to financial reasons, we can no longer afford 95% of our trash collection workers and that only city facilities such as city hall will have their trash collected. All other city offices and citizens are responsible for disposal of their own trash.
These were NOT sanitation Dept, employees who filed the grievance. I am not sure but they may be members of the same union but they are a different Dept.
Since you said it though, so no more trash collection? City should look real good in a couple weeks. You think its bad now.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Why don't I like unions?
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