DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Your Top 3 Qualities in a QB

Ok, I'll bite. My first two qualities (accuracy and decision making) probably benefit BQ, but it's hard to say. My next two qualities (pocket presence and Arm Strength) probably benefit DA. I find it very dificult for me to compare the two as we've seen very little of BQ at the NFL level. I made a very long post a while ago comparing DA and BQ and the one thing it proved was that we can't compare them. We haven't seen anything out of BQ. One thing I include in decision making is play-making ability. The main thing in decision making though is not throwing interceptions.

I think DA will make more plays and BQ will throw less picks. I think BQ will make more completions on the short stuff and DA on the longer to mid range plays. Both have shown good pocket presence, but I think DA is probably better there. No one on here will try to say that BQ has a stronger arm than DA. Maybe on Browns Chat, but not on here.

The difference in opinion here is what people want in their quarterback. DA is more like Brett Favre. He'll make more plays and throw more picks. BQ is like Peyton Manning. He'll make less plays and throw less picks. I'm not saying that BQ won't make plays but he won't make as many as DA. (Note: I'm not saying that DA and BQ are as good as Peyton and Favre, I'm just using them as examples of a type of player)

Personally, if I had to chose between Manning and Favre in their primes, I'd take Favre. I don't want a QB who just manages the game, I want someone who is going to make huge plays for you and will win you games. I do however see BQ as being the better QB when all is said and done. Surprising considering how much I have been defending DA.

My stance is that I think DA did well for us last year and deserved to be named the starter. I loved bringing him back because we didn't (and still don't) know what we had/have in BQ. We really don't know what we have in DA either. All I know is that we won 10 games with DA at Quarterback. We were at blocked field goal or crappy defense away from making the playoffs. The way I see it is this; DA is the starter until BQ proves he is better.

I'd say I agree with just about everything you said.

But....

You prefer Farve in his prime. I would prefer Manning in his prime.

I want a game manager, you want a play maker.

I thought this thread could be instructive because we all view the QB through our own eyes....and we evaluate the play of the QB for reasons that everyone else might not know.

Now that I see you prefer a play maker I can see how you thought DA played very well this season.

Now that you see that I prefer a game manager who is effecient and limits mistakes you can see how I'm frustrated with our QB play.

Just my $.02 on the topic.

Trust me, there were plenty of moments where I was very upset with DA. But I see him as a young, first time starter. All I can ask for is that he learn from his mistakes. I wouldn't say I thought DA played very well last year, but I do think he played well, especially for a first time starter.

Interesting idea Held. Let's see where I stack up. My Top 3 were Intelligence, Leadership, and Ability. As I said initially, all three are pretty broad in scope, so I'd have to get a lot more technical if I were to apply any of those attributes to our QBs.

I think Quinn has a leg up on DA as far as the 'book-smart" intelligence. But there's more to it than just that. Part of the intelligence factor goes into being on the field and making good decisions. I'm not sure who has the edge there since we haven't seen enough of BQ. We all know DA doesn't make the best decisions all the time, but part of that can be blamed on inexperience and some of the habits he was encouraged to develop at Oregon State. So I'll give Quinn the overall edge for Intelligence... for now.

As for Leadership, the players seem to really support DA and want him to be the starter. Again, it's hard to guage Quinn's ability in this area since he hasn't had much of a chance to lead this team. I think he was a great leader at ND and, from what I've heard, he has exhibited good leadership skills with the Browns. But it hasn't been much. When he has been in during pre-season and for 10 plays against San Fran, he was able to march the team down the field and manage things very well. But I don't think that's enough to go on. So I'll give the edge to DA. His laid back, unassuming persona is a strength. He doesn't need to be the Rah-rah guy and get in guys' faces to motivate them. He exudes a quiet confidence that people follow and when he makes mistakes, he recognizes it and then moves on. He's not afraid to take chances and exhibit that short memory that good NFL QBs need to have.

As for Ability, well, I think they both have plenty. Like you said, if you want arm strength, poise, and play-making ability, you gotta be on the DA-wagon. If you want mobility and touch, you may lean more toward BQ. I'm giving this one to DA simply because he's been able to showcase his ability more than Quinn has. I guess that's why I want to see Quinn so bad. Cuz' I wanna see what he can do. Not because I think he is better than DA. I don't know if he is or isn't. And I've said all along, the unknown is what makes me curious. If Quinn played and sucked, then I can finally say 'Okay, DA is MY guy!" But I can't say that and it drives me crazy sometimes. So we'll see what happens. I guess I can't let my desire to crack the enigma that is Brady Quinn override my desire to see a good QB under center for the Cleveland Browns. So that's why I've backed off of the Quinn-pimping and have started supporting DA. I want DA to succeed. I think he can. He's doing the necessary things and I hope he blows everyone out of the building this year with his play. Time to strap up and kick some ass Cleveland.

OK, I'll play:

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Leadership.

Big plays, and vision to see the big play develop.

Clutch play.

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Leadership: The QB must be a leader on the field. While other players may be leader types, and some might be more vocal than others, the QB has to have the ability to be the voice in the huddle. When a QB is weak ..... you have players politicking in the huddle ..... trying to run their own plays ........ getting sloppy on routes ..... and generally throwing a monkey wrench into (what the coaches and fans hope, anyway) is a very well oiled machine. The QB must be able to say "This is what we are going to run" and have the other players accept it as fact ..... instead of having players trying to coordinate from their position on the field.

I have a feeling that this happened a LOT in 2006. (especially according to reports about Edwards and Winslow during that timeframe) I would suspect that it happens a lot less today, and, if it does happen now, is handled a lot better by Anderson.

Big plays: We all watched 2006 ........ with Edwards and/or Winslow running downfield .... with no defender within 20 yards ....... waving their hands feverishly .... praying that Frye saw them ........ only to have a wide open vantage point to watch Frye either run into a sack or dump the ball short. That changed when Anderson took over. Suddenly we became explosive on offense. We could strike and score from anywhere on the field. Anderson isn't perfect, and we still have an occasional misread of a wide open receiver ..... but it happens a whole lot less than in years past. A LOT less.

Last year Anderson had 53 pass plays of 20+ yards. Within our division, Roethlisberger had 39 such plays, Palmer had 51. Other include Tom Brady with 56 ... Peyton Manning with 53, Matt Hasselback with 48 ..... and Tony Romo with 55.

Other players of note include Vince Young with only 24 .... the McNair/Boller 2 headed monster with 22 ... not to mention the inimitable Charlie Frye who had 24 in 2006 as our starter.

Without the threat of big plays in the passing game, defenses stack the line, and attack on every snap. They can .... and in fact must do so. Players get lazy in their responsibilities when they know that the ball is rarely (or never) going to find them ..... because the QB isn't even looking to them.

Chris Palmer once said that in the NFL you win with the running game ..... but score with the passing game. Now, he might not have been a good head coach ..... but he was one helluva coordinator. Without a passing game, you better have a premiere offensive line, and a stud running back (or be the Broncos and put any stiff in at RB and watch him roll up 1200 yards) or your running to nowhere. Success in the passing game ..... and especially big plays in the passing game make defenses both tentative and desperate.

Clutch play: Many QBs play well with nothing on the line. Put any QB under center with a 20 point lead, and he'll be relaxed, and almost certainly, more capable. Why? No pressure means that the QB can just take whetever the defense gives him ..... and if he has to throw the ball away ...... so what? However, the real test of a QB isn't how he performs when facing prosperity ...... it's how he performs when facing desperate times. When the game is on the line, can he put aside a previously horrible game and perform? Can he take his game up a level or 2 when the team needs him most? Can he .... somehow ..... manage to put his team in position to win at the end of the game .... even while casual observers are wondering just how the heck it happened .. or where the heck "that" QB was during the rest of the game?

The best QBs have been those guys who can play horribly for much of a game ........

They're "just off" ....... or the defense "really has them figured out" ....... then, suddenly ...... they shake it off in the final 2 minutes .... and somehow will their team to victory. (or at least into position to win) I saw some of this from Anderson last year. The Raiders game was a horrible game for him. Yet ..... at the end .... we were lining up for a game winning FG try ..... twice ...... (unfortunately we only made "1") .... and the Cardinals game where a missed "push out" meant losing an already lost game ..... that was almost won anyway.

Now, I will readily admit that I know nothing about how Quinn will stack up in these areas ....... or in any others for that matter. This makes a "comparison" of their NFL capabilities almost impossible for anyone not weilding a fully functional and completely tricked out, fresh off the showroom floor, 2009 model crystal ball. Unfortunately, the only way to know is for him to get on the field ..... have defenses gameplan him ...... and see how he does. I hope that he'll do well when, or if he is called upon. He might succeed in such a way that we all ask "Derek Who?" ...... or he might be another in a line of 11st round QB not to live up to expectations. I can't say either way based upon 1 pre-season and 8 pass attempts in a late season game .... can you?

Phase deux

Well I stated Leadership: I think both DA n BQ have the leadership quality - I do know that both Savage and RAC have been very impressed and state so in that quality with BQ. DA - mostly from the players they seem to have expressed the desire to follow DA...which is good enough for me!

Accuracy: I know Kiper and his wannabee peers talked about questionable accuracy...I have to laugh at them unless they are going off of BQ's Sophmore and Freshmen seasons. But he had excellent accuracy in his JR n Sr. years. Possibly that statement came cause the Sr. year was statistically worse (but ver respectable) than his Jr. year. But I watched many of his games and he is accurate.

I've seen his footwork and it bodes well to accuracy. And in two areas that I watched closely that as a coach to me signifies that a QB is fundamentally accurate. Going to his left - I thought BQ was great! Throwing on the run - I thought BQ was very accurate.

In Preseason I pretty much saw a lot of passes 10 yards and in to state emphatically that BQ is more accurate than DA. The Long stuff...I didn't see anywhere's enough to comment about his NFL results. Seems only positives are being noted but as many know who is going to bash a QB while he's on your team.

DA going to his left...I believe he stated that as to a priority of what he's been working on in the offseason to improve his accuracy. Good cause that is the part that is doable I think for him.

On the run making something out of nothing. We can only wait and see but after 18 games his skills in that area are not very good. I'm not impressed with his touch in the Bombs and Corner routes...again this I think is fixable with hard work.

Accuracy within 10 yards...footwork is main thing for him and nowhere in his interviews about improving and what he's been working on have I heard mentioned his footwork for his short passes???

If it seems there are more critique of DA over BQ as stated it has nothing to do with Bias its just I have 18 games to view DA and 8 throws for BQ. Can't critique what I haven't seen.

Then there is the Knowledge of the game.
DA is no dummy but by all reports its seems BQ has an edge here.

Also I see a degree of insecurity in DA. Sometimes you sort of want that Cockiness...BQ seems to have it and it comes natural to him.

Again...for the most part its hard to Quantify BQ with certainty into my Priorities listed. It doesn't mean one way or another outside of the fact we just haven't seen enough. We might in the Pre-season to make some ASSumptions.

DA its sort of easy to see how he compares cause he does have 18 starts. It has been noted by me that he's young and can improve. We'll see but only in the Real Season - of course the Coaches will get better reads and data than us. I'm sure between RAC, Chud and Shirer - They'll get it right!

JMHO

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Also I see a degree of insecurity in DA.

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Where do you see that?

I ask because players last year raved about how loose and relaxed DA was in the huddle ..... and how firmly in control he was. That doesn't sound like insecurity to me.

"I ask because players last year raved about how loose and relaxed DA was in the huddle ..... and how firmly in control he was. That doesn't sound like insecurity to me."

Nor should it cause its nothing of which I was commenting on. Actually I classed DA as having good leadership and the team have said to the man they respect and look forward to following him.

Loose and relaxed is also not a sign of Insecurity - heck he's from Oregon...is there anyone from Oregon not laid back?

Its just little things and totally my opinion. Just the way he he would have a nervous laugh after messing up...of course not that on its own...many do the same thing. But maybe more obvious things - how he was able to get in the comfort Zone only after we dealt Frye and this was not a guess of mine but reported.

Just like it was important to name him the starter again noted by higher ups so that he can be in a comfort zone. Just some dialog in some interviews...not his humble pie stuff...that I like but the way he answers some questions about his future.

I'm sure if you're a DA guy (don't know) it probably will be an impossibility...or a BQ will eat it up. I'm just stating how I feel he is. Oh and then there is that sucking his thumb thing after.... j/k

But I got my reasons - hard to explain but they are there.

JMHO really

1. Played at Oregon State.

2. Big feet.

3. Sounds funny.