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House passes bill to sue OPEC over oil prices
By Tom Doggett
1 hour, 26 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved legislation on Tuesday allowing the Justice Department to sue OPEC members for limiting oil supplies and working together to set crude prices, but the White House threatened to veto the measure.
ADVERTISEMENT
The bill would subject OPEC oil producers, including Saudi Arabia, Iran and Venezuela, to the same antitrust laws that U.S. companies must follow.
The measure passed in a 324-84 vote, a big enough margin to override a presidential veto.
The legislation also creates a Justice Department task force to aggressively investigate gasoline price gouging and energy market manipulation.
"This bill guarantees that oil prices will reflect supply and demand economic rules, instead of wildly speculative and perhaps illegal activities," said Democratic Rep. Steve Kagen of Wisconsin, who sponsored the legislation.
The lawmaker said Americans "are at the mercy" of OPEC for how much they pay for gasoline, which this week hit a record average of $3.79 a gallon.
The White House opposes the bill, saying that targeting OPEC investment in the United States as a source for damage awards "would likely spur retaliatory action against American interests in those countries and lead to a reduction in oil available to U.S. refiners."
The administration said less oil going to refineries would limit available gasoline supplies and raise fuel prices.
Foreign investment in U.S. oil infrastructure has declined in the last decade. But the state-owned oil companies of several OPEC nations are owners of U.S. refineries, and those investments could be affected if the legislation becomes law, said Arlington, Virginia-based FBR Capital Markets Corp.
The bill also requires the Government Accountability Office to carryout a study on the effects of prior oil company mergers on energy prices.
The Senate would still have to approve the House measure.
The Senate previously approved similar legislation as part of a broad energy bill. However, the OPEC-suing provision was removed after White House opposition in order to get the underlying energy legislation signed into law.
(Editing by Christian Wiessner)
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Great, get ready for $5 a gallon very soon.
![[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]](http://mypsn.eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/Letherface.png)
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I'm not sure what suing OPEC is going to do ... Okay, OPEC, we find you guilty! ... Er, now what? Lower your prices, or else! ... Or else what you say? We won't buy your oil! That'll show you! Sure, you can just sell it to India and China and make just as much money, and we'll be stuck with gas shortages, and paying even more because we just cut a huge chunk of supply out of supply and demand ... but at least we won our lawsuit! 
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Sometimes one must stand on principal even when there is nothing to gain.
I'm sure you understand that concept.
But I do agree that in the end it will accomplish little if not nothing at all.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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The article said they would target OPEC investments here in America as damages from the lawsuit.  Like I said get ready for $5 a gallon real soon. The rest of world should tell America to go screw ourselves. We refuse to drill for our own oil when we have some really large deposits (ANWAR, Continental Shelf and the Gulf of Mexico), we use the largest portion of the worlds supply and we want to sue because our prices are getting high.  Now I realize the importance of weening our selves off oil, but IMO realisticly that's a 40-50 year plan, in the mean time drill for every drop we can, update our refineries stop being the main problem to the worlds oil prices being as high as they are everywhere.
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Translation ... Sometimes we have to pander to voters to make it seem like we're trying to do something about gas prices, when we really can't.
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Last I checked, we used 7% of the worlds oil production.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Translation ... Sometime we have to pander to voters to make it seem like we're trying to do something about gas prices, when we really can't.
I doubt that very many Americans actually "believes it will help". I know I sure as hell don't!
I do however believe that symbolic gestures at least let your feelings be known.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Pit I have to say , ( Opinion ) , this just shows you what a bunch of Morons we have up in the DC. hood ... And now add to the equation that the members of neither party has a clue as to real economics ; you have one heck of a recipe 4 disaster 
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Yep ... let's try to subject foreign companies (and often, foreign and sovereign countries) to US laws ..... and threaten their possessions within the US. Yeah, that'll work .... Get ready for $10/gallon. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I'm not sure what suing OPEC is going to do ...
 Hey! Our sue-happy society has reached Congress. At least they're looking for new sources of revenues! This country is doomed.
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Quote:
Get ready for $10/gallon.
I'll demand from my boss that I be able to telecommute.
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Quote:
Quote:
Get ready for $10/gallon.
I'll demand from my boss that I be able to telecommute.
Which is becoming more and more commonplace these days. I work from home ALOT. Of course, my "Corp.Offices" are about 5.5 hours drive time from me. 
![[Linked Image from i75.photobucket.com]](http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i302/lrhinkle/d5eaf0b9-e429-4211-b53f-b843bfcf6aa9_zps2ac17420.jpg) #gmstrong
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1st String
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In other news...
-- "ADDICTS SUE DRUG DEALER OVER PRICE OF HEROIN"
-- "POOR PEOPLE SUE FERRARI OVER PRICE OF GRAN TURISMO"
-- "MORONS SUE EINSTIEN OVER THEORY OF RELATIVITY"
Gas is expensive. We need to buy it from others. We've structured our lives and our entire society around its continued use. Because of this, the people who have the oil now hold all the cards.
We've known this was coming since the 60's but haven't done a thing about it, aside from pumping out more Hummers and SUVs in our domestic factories -- cars that have no market value whatsoever outside of the USA -- where gas has been well above $4/gallon for years and years.
You have two choices: Change your lifestyle or shut the hell up. A lawsuit at this point is beyond moronic, even for the sake of some symbolic gesture.
**Insert clever signature here attributed to some historical figure that sounds interesting but has been taken completely out of context.
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To little to late 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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A symbolic gesture in the case means nothing....other than trying to garner votes. Why not fix the problem with common sense? Start drilling our own oil that we have a THIRTY YEAR supply of and at the same time, invest the monies you earn (you could increase taxes on the fuel and still lower the prices significantly that we pay for gas) from the revenues and actually find an alternative energy source within that thirty years that would work better? Instead, we have vote hungry people grandstanding instead of fixing the problem.
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Mine is only a 10-minute drive away.
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Quote:
Last I checked, we used 7% of the worlds oil production.
7%..i would love to see where those figures come from
According to the Department of Energy and the UN Department of Energy...the United States consumes around 41-47% of the worlds crude oil per year
Here are the top 5 countries in order of in barrels of oil per day:
United States -20,730,000 bbl/day
China - 6,534,000 bbl/day
Japan 5,578,000 bbl/day
Germany 2,650,000 bbl/day
Russia 2,500,000 bbl/day
Look at that..the USA uses 20,730,00 barrels of oil per day. 2nd in line is china with 6.....i see a problem with that
They warned us in the 1960 and 70's to "QUIT" making gas guzzling SUV's...we didn't listen and now this is what we have. They subsiudized buying an SUV by giving 500 and 1000 sometimes 2000 dollars back for buying an "uneconomic" vehicle
Everyone that owns an SUV is actually "causing" others to pay higher prices. Why should people who drive vehicles that are good on gas be punished because some moron wants to drive a SUV that gets 12-16 miles per gallon
Want to lower prices? its easy really
Subsidize people who buy Economic vehicles...if a car has a gas MPG over 28 the person buying the car should get an instant 2000 dollars. If a person buys an SUV or a vehicle below the 26 mpg mark, that person should be "penalized" by having to pay 2000 dollars more, or having to pay 2000 dollars in federal income taxes at the end of the year.
You can still buy the gas guzzling SUV...you will just be penalized for it....since the rest of America gets shafted at the pump because of the SUV
Most SUV's average around 13-17 MPG on the flipside, a Ford Focus for example gets 26-or 27 mpg...if 90% of america drove some sort of "fuel economic" vehicle...demand for gasoline would go down, in turn consumption of gasoline would go down, in turn prices would go down because supply would be greater then demand...this is common sense
also lower the speed limit back to 55 would help to...do you know you burn 20% less fuel going 55 mph than 65? that would also decrease demand somewhat
suing OPEC is going to accomplish nothing, they warned us in the 60's and 70's about subsidizing SUV's...we didn't listen, and now this is what we have....
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Quote:
-- "POOR PEOPLE SUE FERRARI OVER PRICE OF GRAN TURISMO"
Ferrari says...."What the hell???? Maserati makes the Gran Turismo....." 
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Quote:
Most SUV's average around 13-17 MPG on the flipside, a Ford Focus for example gets 26-or 27 mpg...if 90% of america drove some sort of "fuel economic" vehicle...demand for gasoline would go down, in turn consumption of gasoline would go down, in turn prices would go down because supply would be greater then demand...this is common sense
I'll be happy to buy a Ford Focus if you can tell me how to get 6-7 passangers in it. Or should I buy two Fords and have my wife and I drive each drive when we go out?
#gmstrong
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I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Get a Mazda 5 ... you can fit 6 passengers in there. It's basically a sporty looking station wagon. Gets better gas milage than a Focus at 29 MPG. Honda has mini-vans that get 27 MPG, and there are mini-SUVs like the Honda CRV that get around 28 MPG.
So it's doable ... it just people don't want to drive around in a glorified station-wagon or mini-van. Americans for whatever reason think their car is some sort of status symbol, so they feel the need to buy the biggest, fastest car they can get a hold of ... and these always seem to be the people that complain loudest about gas prices.
I understand that you're in the minority that has a lot of kids and needs a larger vehicle ... maybe it's just because I live in California, but I can't count the number of times I see some small woman that needs a step ladder to get into something like a Ford Excursion or Chevy Suburban, and usually just has one kid with them.
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Quote:
Translation ... Sometimes we have to pander to voters to make it seem like we're trying to do something about gas prices, when we really can't.
I was thinking this too when I read that....this one also crosses the mind....
Translation: "Lets cut off our nose to spite our face."
"My signature line goes here."
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Quote:
if 90% of america drove some sort of "fuel economic" vehicle...demand for gasoline would go down, in turn consumption of gasoline would go down, in turn prices would go down because supply would be greater then demand...this is common sense
In a perfect supply and demand world, you would be right, but why would OPEC allow the supply to outweigh the demand by much? They screwed themselves not that long ago when oil was less then $20 / barrel. They won't make that mistake again. If we use less they'll most likely produce less.
"My signature line goes here."
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You know what gets even better mileage than a Ford Focus? Your legs.
I drive an old Jeep Cherokee. Love the thing. Its gas mileage is decent, although I have no idea of miles per gallon as we don;t operate in either. But rather than lament that I'm not driving the most gas efficient vehicle on the block, I lower my usage of it.
I choose to walk places when possible. After all, all I need for a fill-up is beer....although here that still costs more than gas.
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Quote:
You know what gets even better mileage than a Ford Focus? Your legs.
I drive an old Jeep Cherokee. Love the thing. Its gas mileage is decent, although I have no idea of miles per gallon as we don;t operate in either. But rather than lament that I'm not driving the most gas efficient vehicle on the block, I lower my usage of it.
I choose to walk places when possible. After all, all I need for a fill-up is beer....although here that still costs more than gas.
That's partially why I love being in Athens...I can walk everywhere except if I want to go to Wal-Mart and even then it's only a few miles.
But at home? Nothing is within walking distance. We have no sidewalks. I'm going to hate driving to and from work cuz it's gonna bleed a hole in my pocket.
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Sometimes one must stand on principal even when there is nothing to gain.
What exactly is the principal we are standing on? That we should be allowed to have oil reserves we don't touch because it would influence the migration of the caribou but we can sue them for not maxing out THEIR production? Until we are maxing out our own oil production, the stuff we've known about for 20-30 years, we have no right to sue anybody else..
And as far as seizing their assets, didn't a certain South American dictator do that recently to some US companies and we got all upset about it? 
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
A symbolic gesture in the case means nothing....other than trying to garner votes. Why not fix the problem with common sense? Start drilling our own oil that we have a THIRTY YEAR supply of and at the same time, invest the monies you earn (you could increase taxes on the fuel and still lower the prices significantly that we pay for gas) from the revenues and actually find an alternative energy source within that thirty years that would work better? Instead, we have vote hungry people grandstanding instead of fixing the problem.
I don't know Coach, you tell me?
The GOP controled the congress, the Senate AND The White House from 2002 - 2006. Why didn't they?
They green lighted every other spending measure they wanted, why not the one's you've mentioned?
Point being, NEITHER party has really "addressed the issue" to speak of. The Dems controled all three in Clintons first six years as president. They didn't do it either.
It seems no matter who controls the power, all we get is lip service.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Sooner or later the rising price of gasoline/deisel will hit the magic point of no return. Too little supply for too much demand ensures rising prices.
People will demand that we have access to cheaper gasoline. Once the price hits that magic price...and it will..the public will demand that be allowed to be pulled from the Gulf of Mexico.
The Chinese are paying Cuba for the right to extract oil off the Cuban coast very near our coastline. Neither China nor Cuba give a damn of the environmental aspect of this drilling...they just want the oil and not the debate. SO WHY AREN'T WE DRILLING?
The shale deposits out West contain massive amounts of oil but it isn't considered earth friendly to tap these deposits. So we will wait until 2010 to get started when gas is $10/gallon. WHY NOT START TODAY!
When the price reaches that $10/gallon mark...our concern for Mr. and Mrs. Polar Bear and the Caribou family will wane. The public will demand action...
WHY WAIT UNTIL THEN ? START TODAY!
If politicians think that their popularity is low today...wait until the magic price is hit and people begin to reassess the entire "Global Warming" mess. The oceans will still be cooling and the rotational "wobbling" of the earth will be recognized as a potential cause of the rising temps which stopped several years ago.
John Q. Public will realize that many trillions of dollars have been wasted on this unkind do gooder hoax/religion and people will want to sue their Congresspeople for breach of responsibility.
Then and only then will we begin in earnest to take the oil from wherever we can get it...and to build the necessary refineries to process it.
SEVERAL YEARS TOO LATE!!!
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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Quote:
What exactly is the principal we are standing on?
Economic Costs of War in Iraq
$33.51: Cost of a barrel of oil in March 2003. [Energy Information Administration]
$105.68: Cost of a barrel of oil on March 17, 2008. [NYMEX]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/19/iraq-casualties-iraq-cos_n_92303.html
Today?
$132.67 as of 1:23 P.M.
http://www.bloomberg.com/energy/
I'd say the price quadroupling in five years may be something to "protest" on some level. If not, what is?
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That we should be allowed to have oil reserves we don't touch because it would influence the migration of the caribou but we can sue them for not maxing out THEIR production? Until we are maxing out our own oil production, the stuff we've known about for 20-30 years, we have no right to sue anybody else..
Like you really think anything will come of this? It's really nothing more than a symbolic gesture. It will never get off the ground.
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And as far as seizing their assets, didn't a certain South American dictator do that recently to some US companies and we got all upset about it?
How is this news? Haven't we already siezed the assets of TONS of people AND businesses because we "think they MIGHT be an enemy combatant"? Or that MIGHT be "funneling money to terrorists"?
No warrants, no messy "probable cause" required.
So how is it we are "so mch better" again?
How was it Aaron Tippon said it?
"You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything."
I guess people only buy into that when "we attack" countries.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I hereby declare a class-action suit US Citizens vs. US Government on the basis of fraud, deceit, lack of customer support and satisfaction, bait and switch, and for being a monopoly.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
I hereby declare a class-action suit
US Citizens vs. US Government on the basis of fraud, deceit, lack of customer support and satisfaction, bait and switch, and for being a monopoly.
I second that emotion!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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J/C
Everyone rushed into precious metals in the 80s....created a bubble....bubble bursts.
Everyone rushed into the DotComs in the 90s...created bubble... bubble bursts.
Everyone rushed into Real Estate in thw 00s....created bubble...bubble bursts.
Everyone will/is now rushing into Oil / commodoties....creating a bubble....
I've read this earlier on MarketWatch: "Pension funds and other institutional investors are driving commodity prices to the moon by allocating massive amounts of money to energy and agricultural investments and sidestepping regulatory limits on big speculative bets, according to research expected to be presented to Congress on Tuesday.
When its people like us that get into the bubbled markets, that's when they burst. We're always led to the slaughter.
"My signature line goes here."
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When its people like us that get into the bubbled markets, that's when they burst. We're always led to the slaughter.
Just like sheep. I couldn't have said it better.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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The GOP controled the congress, the Senate AND The White House from 2002 - 2006. Why didn't they?
Let's try and be fair. The vast majority of elected Republicans in Congress wanted to drill, at least in Alaska. They hardly (if any) had help from Dems. The few Republicans against it (McCain being one) stopped it from happening.
As far as alternate fuels go, I really don't understand the politics of it. You can't mandate private companies to do R&D, and they want huge tax incentives from the government if they do the work. They also take huge profits if it is successful. The fact is other countries that are more socialistic haven't come up with an answer yet. To me that shows that it isn't purely the fault of our capitalist system.
I would like to hear what people think, but I know it will just turn into a blame game. "Republicans don't want alternative fuels because they are run by big oil." " The Dems don't want it because it takes away an issue to run against Republicans on." Yadda yadda yadda...
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I won't even begin to use the blame game. They're both equally as guilty. We've known this was coming since the early 70's.
After sitting on our collectives asses for 30 years, everyone's to blame.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Just to be clear, I wasn't saying you would play the blame game. This is a discussion I would like to hear, but it will always turn into the blame game. One person will post something that another disagrees with and all of a sudden the conversation devolves.
I also believe there is way more to the sky rocketing fuel prices then OPEC artifically jacking up prices. Refinery capacity, surge in world usage, devauluation in the US dollar all play big parts as well.
Auto makers are always slow to react. They worry more about what consumers want, then they do what is better for the enviroment. I really can't blame them. They have been making strides in hybrid vehicles, including big SUVs. I can't afford one, or I would buy one. The more common place they become, the cheaper they will be.
I also don't blame someone else for buying a big vehicle, whether it be for need or status symbol. They have every right to buy what they want, and they should.
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Quote:
I also don't blame someone else for buying a big vehicle, whether it be for need or status symbol. They have every right to buy what they want, and they should.
I would never say that don't have the right to buy whatever they want ... what they really don't have the "right" of is complaining about high gas prices. That's pretty much what you're signing up for when you buy a big gas guzzler.
I feel the same way about people who think the government should supply them with all kinds of free goodies, but then complain because their taxes are high.
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
actually, they have the right to buy whatever they want AND the right to complain about it.... and we all have the right to not listen or just tell em to shut the heck up
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,232
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,232 |
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Just to be clear, I wasn't saying you would play the blame game. This is a discussion I would like to hear, but it will always turn into the blame game. One person will post something that another disagrees with and all of a sudden the conversation devolves.
Well many miss the message that I'm not terribly fond of politicians in general.
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I also believe there is way more to the sky rocketing fuel prices then OPEC artifically jacking up prices. Refinery capacity, surge in world usage, devauluation in the US dollar all play big parts as well.
As well as the futures market IMO. But yes, all of these things are contributing factors no doubt. I believe as it appears you do, that there is no "one size fits all" fix to this situation. It's a combination of things.
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Auto makers are always slow to react. They worry more about what consumers want, then they do what is better for the enviroment. I really can't blame them. They have been making strides in hybrid vehicles, including big SUVs. I can't afford one, or I would buy one. The more common place they become, the cheaper they will be.
But here's where I slde down "the slippery slope" again.
And no, I'm not fond of government regulations. However, there have been MANY "guidelines" concerning fuel economy that kept getting "put on a shelf" that would have at the very least "helped" in slowing our oil consumption.
Yet those who complain about big government, are many of the same ones complaining about fuel prices. A little bit of government goes a long way. At least it might if it got involved when it's "what's best for our country" instead of being involved in many places they really don't belong IMO
And I do believe that such fuel efficiant regulations, if they had been ennacted as first scheduled, would have helped this situation.
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I also don't blame someone else for buying a big vehicle, whether it be for need or status symbol. They have every right to buy what they want, and they should.
If they want to just "shut up and fill er' up" I'm fine with it!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 468
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 468 |
Even IF we sue and win , seize $ X of OPEC's U.S. investments ,the price of oil will still continue to rise....Reducing our dependence on Import oil is a key National Interest....Once we no longer allow rogue nations and some not so rogue , to use oil as a noose around our neck , the whole equation changes  ...However , I to not see any light at the end of this Tunnel anytime soon....
The Mammal
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum House passes bill to sue OPEC over
oil prices
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