DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Daven Holly Suffers Knee Injury

I think one of the bigger factors that will determine their success will be how well we are able to play the run. How well we are able to push back the middle of the opponents line in a passing situation is going to be the next biggest factor I think.

Good or bad, they don't operate in a vacuum.. .they rely on the opponent being put in as disadvantageous a position as possible. With the schemes we seem to run, I really don't see either of them getting toasted unless there is just a completley blown responsibility. They just need to cover long enough for someone else to make a play - be that a sack or a pressured/rushed throw.

McDonald may get tested alot more then Wright..

Wright did a pretty good job for a rookie last year. I'm expecting a big leap this year given that it's his second year and there is reason to believe that the LIne will play better allowing less time for QB's to set and throw..

I guess that would help McDonald or anyone that's back there also.

j/c, nothing new here, but words of Grossi:


Cleveland Browns must trade for a cornerback


by Tony Grossi, Plain Dealer Reporter

Thursday May 22, 2008, 10:52 AM

John Kuntz/The Plain Dealer



The Browns' secondary took a big hit with the loss of Daven Holly this week.The Browns' cornerback situation is at a crisis stage. Fortunately for them, it's early enough to resolve.
But the team cannot realistically expect to compete for the AFC North title, and beyond, with a starting tandem of Eric Wright and Brandon McDonald and Jereme Perry as the third cornerback.

It is easy now to second-guess the Browns' willingness, if not insistence, to include Leigh Bodden in the trade for Shaun Rogers. Remember, the Lions had agreed to accept Cincinnati's third- and fifth-round picks for Rogers, but that trade fell through for other reasons. In hindsight, the Browns would have been wiser to offer Detroit a third- and fourth, but they seemed intent on shipping Bodden out of town.

So now what's GM Phil Savage going to do?

He virtually has ruled out laying out big bucks for unsigned 14-year veteran Ty Law and trading for Philadelphia's Lito Sheppard, who also would demand a new, big contract. Sheppard has had a recent history of injuries and may not be worth the double investment of a high draft pick and a new contract.

Patching the position with one or two players off the unsigned scrap heap (Chad Scott? Kelly Herndon? Terry Cousin?) isn't going to solve the problem, either.

Savage has to seriously consider trading for an established cornerback good enough to push McDonald back to the No. 3 spot. And then he still would need to sign another veteran.

In order to acquire a solid cornerback with years remaining on his contract, Savage will have to give up his No. 1 or No. 2 pick in '09. Either choice is difficult because he already has squandered his third- and fifth-round picks next year in trades for tight end Martin Rucker and receiver Paul Hubbard.

But remember Savage's attitude in February -- the future is now for this team. It has to win a championship within the next three years. The team's offense is ready to proceed.

No matter the upgrade on the defensive front, the situation in the secondary is dire enough to cough up another high draft pick to repair it. It's a bitter pill, for sure.

Savage's tenure as Browns general manager has been one learning experience after another. Trader Phil learned something this year. Live by the trade, die by the trade.




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Has Grossi ever said anything positive? I'm not saying he needs to be a cheerleader, but saying we "squandered" draft picks? C'mon.

Wow, why did Randy hire Savage when he had Tony , the best GM in football, Grossi sitting on his doorstep.
What a tool

Since Phil is such buddies with the Cowpokes, maybe he can swing a deal with them to get Anthong Henry back ...hmmm...Just a thought! Go Brownies!!!!

The browns are looking at Domonique Foxworth

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks?tag=domonique%20foxworth

Here's a name that makes sense for the Cleveland Browns to pursue in their desperate search for a cornerback: Denver's Domonique Foxworth.

Don't be surprised if the Browns start sniffing around on his availability in the wake of Daven's Holly injury. The Browns need a cornerback pronto and may have to look to trade for one. Foxworth could be more available than most starting-quality cornerbacks because he is not a penciled-in starter in Denver even though he has played extensively at both cornerback and safety in his three NFL seasons.

Because he is a nickel cornerback and is entering the final year of his contract, the Broncos' asking price might be reasonable to the Browns. With the Browns scrambling, there is little doubt they'll research Foxworth.

I like how you said the Browns are looking at Foxworth, yet the article just says it would make sense for the Browns to do so.

Mr. Grossi, is that you?

Howd you know?!

On WTAM this morning Savage said he expects to get some more CB help into camp. He mentioned trades and said one could happen.. and the name most heard is Lito Sheppard (actually, I think he just referred to the guy from Philly...not sure)

He went further saying that that wouldn't happen that if a trade did occur it would be something less spectacular. (paraphrasing, if you want exact words, listen to the recording of todays talk on WTAM)

But that's the jest of it..

So, seems to me that Savage is a man of his word.. he'\ll get someone else in here and it may come from a low level trade.

But you know Grossi,, he has to thump his chest to act like a big shot.... The man is a real Richard...

j/c

Ricky Manning Jr. is maybe another option. He is a veteran, sounds like he is being phased out in Chicago. His salary next year is huge- so the bears might be willing to trade him for a low pick.

sun-times

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I'm actually more upset for him than I am for our team. Here is a young man who looks like he worked really hard to be a player in a league that wasn't sure he could play. And he was actually going to be competing for a starting job on an up and coming team. My heart goes out to him.

Especially because it seems the injury is severe, and I'm sure there is the possibility he might not make it back. I don't know what that percentage is, but when RAC says 'it's not good' that makes my ears perk up a bit.

I just feel terrible for him.

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Thanks.........I'm glad someone finally said this.

j/c

Just saw this on Yahoo... Man, I feel for the guy too. He finally gets a real shot to start and he screws up his knee in OTAs.

Link Thingy

Browns CB Holly signs tender, placed on IR
1 hour, 54 minutes ago

BEREA, OHIO (TICKER) —Cleveland Browns cornerback Daven Holly, who recently suffered a serious knee injury, signed his one-year tender and will be placed on injured reserve, the team announced on Thursday.

As a restricted free agent, Holly was tendered a one-year offer earlier this spring. The Browns also waived linebacker Asa Matthews.

Holly sustained ligament and cartilage damage in his left knee while defending a pass during Tuesday’s organized team activities and could be lost for the season.

The 25-year-old Holly will undergo knee surgery Friday, according to Cleveland general manager Phil Savage.

Holly was hurt when he landed awkwardly while coming down for a jump ball with wide receiver Braylon Edwards, who suffered a hip pointer on the play.

Holly was expected to battle Eric Wright and Brandon McDonald for a starting cornerback position.

A seventh-round pick of the San Francisco 49ers in 2005, Holly has played two seasons with the Browns. His best season was in 2006, when he had five interceptions.

Trade Ocho Winslow for Lito Sheppard. Two problems solved........

We do need about 4-5 CB's on the roster come August...

but for now... I don't see a need to trade anyone for a corner that probably won't even be here long. I mean we are going to draft a corner in the 1st or 2nd round next year. And you don't draft a guy that high to be a back-up.

Bring in some young talent, and let them battle it out. Instead of trading away ANOTHER vet (Bodden), you should have just kept Bodden in the first place, and we wouldn't be in this predicament.

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you should have just kept Bodden in the first place, and we wouldn't be in this predicament.

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Ya maybe...but then come September people would be crying "we have no pass rush"...."why didnt we make a move for a pass rusher", and 2nd if losing bodden makes or breaks this defense than were in worse shape than all us fans thought, Bodden is always injured, & always one step behind, Sure he's a good corner when healthy, but when was the last time he was healthy, 2005 ?..not getting on you, but Bodden wasnt all that, he was the best he had, at that time, and that ant saying much.

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Bodden is always injured, & always one step behind, Sure he's a good corner when healthy, but when was the last time he was healthy, 2005 ?

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Bodden was last healthy all the way back in 2007 when he played in all 16 games.......it was the one year out of his 5 with us that he was around for the whole year.

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but i don't agree with this chain reaction thought of since one of our corners got hurt, we have to trade a vet to get another "patch" for our CB spots.

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Here too, agreed, I know Phil wont make a knee jerk trade like some posters here are worried about and rightfully so, in the past we've all seen those trade, I do honestly believe Phil is looking to trade A.Davis to clear the way for our young LB whom ever they maybe. and is wouldnt suprise me to see T.Wilson's name being tossed around in Denver.

Personally, I think we should bite the bullet and make the Lito Sheppard trade. The longer he's out on the market the more his value drops. (personally I don't see why the Eagles don't just keep him, given the popularity of 3 WR sets these days)

Sheppard, Wright, McDonald. MORE THAN comfortable with that kind of depth.

Here's a name that makes sense for the Cleveland Browns to pursue in their desperate search for a cornerback: Denver's Domonique Foxworth.

And they should look at him..
It shouldn't be hard to do a trade to Denver for a castoff Dlinemen

"I'm talking about lower-end trade," Savage said.

Speaks volumes...basically 2-5 years vets who are on the bubble with their team and the type before cut day get dangled for a 6th or 7th round pick in hopes of getting something for them.

At this stage we would have to trade a player and/or a late draft pick...probably both to get one of those bubble guys this early.

Heiden is coming off back surgery...real tuff to get his value. Wilson would be a likewise Bubble person. Somebody similar to him but is on a team with depth at CB would be a good exchange of course since we are the desperate party we would have to sweeten it with probably a 6th round pick as well.

JMHO - of course we added Cousins recently but I like that to bringing in a Vet to replace Kenny Wright more so than Holly.

and he always made a play when we needed one...

Yeah, I hated to see him go. He didn't play as well last year as in the past, but like you say, he made plays when we needed it the most.

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Personally, I think we should bite the bullet and make the Lito Sheppard trade.

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Yesterday on Wills and Snyder, he pretty much nixed that happening. He didn't rule out a trade, but he said that it wouldn't be that high profile if it happened. (I'm paraphrasing here)

So, does that mean that Sheppard will be here by Tuesday?

Browns signed (RFA), CB Daven Holly to a (1 year, $1.417 million)
I think the Browns tender was more then fair.

Link

Joselio Hanson (RFA), Eagles. Age: 27
Re-signed with Eagles (1 year, $1.417 million)

Domonique Foxworth (RFA), Broncos. Age: 25
Re-signed with Broncos (1 year, $927,000)

Stanley Wilson (RFA), Lions. Age: 25
Re-signed with Lions (1 year, $927,000)

The above mentioned players were of greater or equal value from this years FA CB pool.

Cleveland Browns looking to acquire cornerback with experience
GM Savage is pursuing a cornerback with experience to bolster thin secondary
Sunday, May 25, 2008

ABOUT THE BROWNS . . .

Not sure how it will happen, but the Browns will come up with an other viable cornerback to replace the injured Daven Holly. Signing Terry Cousin was in the works before Holly's season-ending injury. The Browns see him as a nickel back, best suited to cover less-speedy slot receivers. They tried to sign him two years ago, but the 33-year-old Cousin decided to stay in Jacksonville. They targeted Cousin again when Kenny Wright had legal problems, and he is seen as a depth player, not a starter. Cousin signed a two-year deal worth about $1 million annually with about $400,000 guaranteed.

Browns General Manager Phil Savage said: "Brandon McDonald had an outstanding two weeks of [organized team activities], and I'm not just saying that because of Holly's injury. He was pushing to start with Holly healthy." But Savage also knows the Browns are scary thin at cornerback, with Eric Wright and McDonald as the projected starters. They have a combined two years of NFL experience, and 15 pro starts. Savage is working the phones in search of a veteran cornerback, but a younger model. The Browns consider Ty Law too old and too expensive.

Starting his fourth year with the Browns, Savage has made every type of deal imaginable. He's signed big-name free agents, he's hit gold with the undrafted Josh Cribbs. He's traded draft picks for players, players for draft picks - and even made a few player-for-player trades, which aren't that common in the NFL. That means he'll take a risk, and it's safe to assume he will make some sort of trade to get a cornerback. Yes, Buffalo's Ashton Youboty is a possibility. Buffalo has soured on the former Ohio State star, and the Bills have brought in veteran corner Will James and drafted three cornerbacks (including Akron's Reggie Corner). So he is available.

Can Youboty help? He's played in only 14 games in two pro seasons, and has not made much of an impact. He had the dreaded high-ankle sprain last season. In 2006, he had a rough rookie season as his mother died. He is only 23 and was a third-round pick in 2006. There was a feeling at OSU that he left school a year too early. He played for Browns defensive coordinator Mel Tucker at OSU, so Tucker will have a major say in how hard the Browns pursue him. Not speaking directly about Youboty, Savage said: "There is another Daven Holly out there, a guy another team has given up on him and can help us. We just have to find him."

There are other possibilities at cornerback. Jereme Perry was signed. He played here in 2006 and with Miami last season. He's a long shot. At one point in 2006, the Browns played safety Brodney Pool at cornerback. It's not something they'd open the season doing, but it's a consideration. They like backup safety Mike Adams, and teaming him with Sean Jones might allow Pool to play some cornerback. But the main focus is finding another cornerback, probably through a trade - though the Browns are determined not to deal a first- or second-rounder.

Then there is Gary Baxter. As Savage said, if he makes a full comeback after tearing both ACLs, "it will be a miracle." But it is possible that Baxter might be able to come back enough to help as a backup safety and/or nickel back. He has stayed close to the team, and is making progress. More will be known when the Browns wear pads and begin to hit during veterans camp this summer.

Beau Bell looked good in practice and it would not be a shock if he pushed Andra Davis for playing time early in the season. D'Qwell Jackson had the best OTAs of the inside linebackers. Bell will compete with Leon Williams and Davis for time at the other inside linebacker spot.

Here's the latest with LeCharles Bentley. He needs to have his surgeon clear him to play, then he needs to pass the Browns' physical. He skipped the voluntary OTAs to continue to work on his knee with his personal trainer. From a practical view: Until Bentley is on the field taking part in practices with blocking and tackling, there's really not much to say about him.

Jamal Lewis showed up in excellent physical condition and had a solid camp. The Browns are very optimistic about him having another 1,000-yard season. Braylon Edwards looked excellent. After a strong first week, Donte' Stallworth struggled a bit. The Browns are not concerned, as Stallworth has to learn the offense. Both quarterbacks did a decent job.

The Browns were amused and pleased with agent Drew Rosenhaus on a YouTube video saying Kellen Winslow will be in town for the minicamp in June. He said the OTAs are voluntary and Winslow is rehabilitating his knee. The Browns know Winslow physically would not have done much if he were in camp. Let's see if Winslow indeed does show up and if his contract issues do go away.

If you are interested in football, and especially leadership, there will be a good conference June 3 starting at 4:30 p.m. at Playhouse Square featuring Romeo Crennel, Savage, Jim Tressel, Dave Tressel and others. The theme is "Having Success at Every Level." Call 216-241-6400. Tickets are $25.

Pluto

I'm kinda likin' this Youboty thang...

23 years old and can grow right along with Wright and Mcdonald...

Cousin was a decent signing as a replacement for Wright...And he was being looked at BEFORE Holly went down...

We can get Boty for a later pick...Or dare I say Davis?...lol...

Youboty for a 6th rounder wouldn't be bad... but nothing more... And if they are going to trade for someone, they better do it quick.....

Why? so they will be on Madden.. lol

Youboty is possibly not going to make the Bills 53 man roster…he’ll be in a camp battle
With Will James (formerly known as William Peterson) …

I had to dig deep and hard to find any depth (surplus) on a team Roster as far as CB goes.
The Bills drafted 3 and signed 1 FA, they have already been listed.

Dallas Cowboys
(we might look to the Cowboys for help again)

Terence Newman
Anthony Henry
Mike Jenkins
Pac man Jones
Allen Ball 6’1” 176 lb, (Last years weight)
The Dallas Cowboys drafted Alan Ball in the 7th round (237) of the 2007 NFL draft…
Orlando Scandrick 5’11” 187 lb,
5th round (143) of the 2008 NFL draft… (has some character concerns)
Quincy Butler 6’1” 185 lb,
Former practice squad player who has good size and natural instincts for the cornerback position.

The Cowboys might move Henry to Safety, but that would still leave a surplus Ball and Butler both have good size and have shown some abilities for the position.

I wonder if the "Bat-phone" has been buzzing at the Dallas camp?

This would fall into the rumor category, but we have a surplus at WR on paper at the moment
Maybe we could offer Travis Wilson or someone else in exchange for Ball.

They weren’t able to find a WR in the draft and that was thought to be a position of need on their team due to the age of some of their veterans

The Cowboys also have
Evan Oglesby 5’10” 185 lb, 3rd year player
Who spent a couple of years in Baltimore.
Jerron Wishorn 6’0” 197 lb, 3rd year player
Justin Phinisee 5’11” 199 lb, 1st year player

Thanks for finding your way back to the board. I find your knowledge to be very good, as well as your opinions.

Thanks Pdawg...it's good to be back.

Youbet your football Youboty could help..it has to be players like this Phil goes aftr..guy s other teams give up on..

A bad season dealing with his mother's death and then an injury is no reason to give up on a guy with talent.

Once a guy has some not so good history in his present location it's tough to come back from overcome the odds. A fresh start for a player like that with talent could be just the ticket.

I'm sure Phil & Co. has scouted and evaluated him throughly.