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If this REALLY belongs in the "change" thread, please merge it, but I think this is a whole other topic especially because the other one has degenerated into yet another Iraq debate. I think this topic stands on its own.
A couple months back Peen said something that has kept me up later than intended on a couple occasions, and it wasn't in celebration.
He said there's a chance that my generation will be the first one to not be more successful than our parents. Mostly due to the housing market, but I have to imagine the price of oil is a huge factor in that.
So basically, by no fault of our own, my generation is screwed right out of the gate because we have to deal with a housing market on the decline (and as my Real Estate teacher once told me, the economy goes as the housing market goes), and astronomical gas prices that we can't afford because we won't have much savings as we enter the workforce, if anything we have student loans to pay off.
Basically, the idea of failure or our civilization in decline once my generation takes over scares the proverbial crap out of me. Especially because it will have been no fault of our own. There should have been more responsibility and saving when it came to using credit, more investment in alternative fuels, etc.
This isn't an "I blame the baby boomers for screwing up our prospects" post...I just wonder what some thoughts are from the older generation on this topic. I just know that there are a ton of challenges that have been largely ignored until it's grown too big to ignore, and by then, is it too big to fix without a big decline in our civilization?
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Threre's several factors that I believe will contribute to my generation (i'm in my low 30ths now) will not do as well as our parents:
-> cheap energy is gone
-> we are soft. really soft. My grandparents went without food during the great depression. my friends and I bitch if the waiter is 3 minutes late bringing our food. Our kids are practically worshiped and kept away from any suffering. that's why you see so many freaking brats at the store.
-> we rely way too much on technology. I work in IT, have for 10 years now. I know folks that can't remember anything unless it's on a PDA/phone/whatever. People don't read books, they read some useless blog instead.
-> we are entertainment driven instead of results driven. we just want to be entertained, we watch wars from afar like they are video games.
-> As a society, we no longer put the good of the many above the good of the self. All ads now mirror this. "the power of you" is the slogan of the evil cable company around here, give me a break.
I'm guilty of these things above, just as many other folks are. I don't believe that we'll see a depression, what I think we'll see is a gradual lowering of the standard of living in the US in our generation, and after we pass on, 3 or 4 down the road the US will no longer be a world power.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Quote:
I just know that there are a ton of challenges that have been largely ignored until it's grown too big to ignore, and by then, is it too big to fix without a big decline in our civilization?
It's opportunity. Your generation has the opportunity to fix a lot of the things that were ignored. Just remember though, a lot of good was done leading up to your generation. Technological advancements, healthcare advancements, etc...
Quite a few generations have "come of age" facing what seemed like insurmountable odds.. slavery festered for centuries and was coming to a head as somebody your age was wondering if it would be downfall of his generation... Hitler was rising to power and dominating Europe as somebody your age wondered if he would have to learn to speak German by the time he was 30... somebody came of age at the beginning of the depression, and Watergate, and the Cold War.. in good economic times and bad... and each generation figured it out. Yours will be no different. Look at it as an opportunity to improve on the good things done and fix the things which were not done well....
yebat' Putin
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Its a little early to start your whine Ammo.
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Just a quick thought.... There were kids born INTO the depression. Making sure to not spoil them, they got drafted and went to Europe or Japan to get killed or wounded. Their children got to go to Vietnam and had their own version "global warming" to worry about; Global Thermal Nuclear War. Do the schools teach "Duck and Cover" for $4.00 gas? 
"My signature line goes here."
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Yes it could,easily.
But you know the way it is today.
Deny, deny, deny. Even if it smacks you upside the head.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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A great depression could happen....but I think it's more of a paradigm shift that is affecting the entire world.
The main two things in my opinion facing the US:
1. With new technology we have brought the world much much closer (for better or worse). With that manufacturing has moved from local to global. For the US to succeed long term we need to embrace this fact and focus on educating a white collar workforce.
2. What it means to be an American has changed IMO. Once we stopped protecting the border, we've basically lost a part of our sovernty. Now we have illegal aliens accounting for 1/3 of all births in California. I think we've lost pride in being an American and that's been a cause of angst for me and others that are older, many of whom served to protect this country.
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Can a "great depression" happen? In my opinion, oh yeah. We're staring one in the face right now.
It will not be your generation that is blamed, nor will it be my generation, nor even my parents gen. (I'm 39, my parents are late 60's).
What will be the cause of the great depression? Americans ill-conceived beliefs that they are entitled. Entitled to live better than their parents as soon as the get out of college. Entitled to spend however they see fit in order to live better. Entitled to free health care at age 65. Entitled to a gov't. pension at age 65. The belief that someone else would pay their way once they reach a certain age, which lead to spending like drunken sailors on shore leave when americans should have been, and should be, living well BELOW their means, instead of well ABOVE their means.
It, a depression, is staring us in our face. Personally, I have no doubt it will happen - but that's my personal opinion. We all "want want want" - cheap gas, cheap electricity, cheap products, but we all "want want want" higher paying jobs.
As a country, we live on credit - not just the gov't., but individually as well. Go back 2 generations from me - credit was considered a bad thing. You borrowed to build a house, maybe for 1 car - a 2 or 3 year loan. Look at our society today - you buy a house twice as expensive as what you should, you have 2 car payments, 2 credit cards plus 2 or 3 store cards, a boat payment or a lawnmower payment, you eat out 3 times a week and you feel you are entitled to vacations - cause after all, all you have to do is make it to age 65 and someone else will pay the bill.
Depression? Yeah, in my opinion, it's coming - fast.
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Yeah it's gonna happen but hopefully Jesus will pull me out before things start to get out of hand 
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Highly unlikely to absolutely not....
Why... governmental proactive intervention...remember the Bear Stern's takeover. We may suffer the worst financial mess since the Depression but it will not be repeated.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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Keep in mind, ralphie, our country didn't have NEAR the debt during the great depression as it does now. Gov't. debt, AND personal debt.
The gov't. can only bail out so much - and they are past that point at this time. When the money isn't there, it just isn't there. What did our gov't. bail out Bear Sterns with? Credit.
With gas as high as it is, this whole economy is set to come crashing down, hard, in a big way. Stocks are very prone to tanking at this point in time. Investments? Unless your money is in gold, they will be worthless, as will the american dollar.
I hope it doesn't happen, because I will be like millions and millions of others and not have very much - as in nothing. But I do see the u.s. approaching a depression. Again, gov't. can only bail out so much, they are past that point already, raising taxes will sink this country, and the last buyouts have been on credit already.
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Could another depression happen? Sure. Why? We as a people don't learn or remember from our past mistakes. In 1973 we had a energy crisis, gasoline and utility bills sky high. There were long lines for gas. People were taught and shown that big homes with expansive glass leak heat. Then they came out with double pane glass with e rated glass for sun light. There was a push for self sufficiency, talk of conserving our resources and saving money. Dome homes came into vogue, in the ground homes were getting attention. Then in 1979 we had another gasoline crisis. The 80's brought bigger homes and everyone forgot the lessons of the early 70's. The late 80's brought on the savings and loan scandel. Back in the 50's and 60's you needed to have 20% down to buy :brickwall a house. Somehow over the years that was dropped to 10%. My neighbor got a loan a few years back. His mortgage includes the money he needed for closing costs!!!!!!!! Hello!!!!! Sort of looks like we keep making the same mistakes over and over again. 
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Good post, man.  Arch, I liked a lot of what you had to say too. You too, snow. I think some of you others who are blasting Ammo are being unfair. I realize it is a popular thing to do around here and I have done it myself. But, you are coming across as bullies and I don't like that. Leave the kid alone.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Thanks man. It's sort of a transitional time we live in now. We see and feel the glow from the past, but it's dimming. ( I get in these wierd cynical moods every once in a while and this topic just happened to hit me in one. )
I'm not sure anybody but ourselves can be blamed. The way the Govt works now is just a mirror of how society is: spend what you don't have and blame somebody else when there is problems.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Quote:
Threre's several factors that I believe will contribute to my generation (i'm in my low 30ths now) will not do as well as our parents:
-> cheap energy is gone
-> we are soft. really soft. My grandparents went without food during the great depression. my friends and I bitch if the waiter is 3 minutes late bringing our food. Our kids are practically worshiped and kept away from any suffering. that's why you see so many freaking brats at the store.
-> we rely way too much on technology. I work in IT, have for 10 years now. I know folks that can't remember anything unless it's on a PDA/phone/whatever. People don't read books, they read some useless blog instead.
-> we are entertainment driven instead of results driven. we just want to be entertained, we watch wars from afar like they are video games.
-> As a society, we no longer put the good of the many above the good of the self. All ads now mirror this. "the power of you" is the slogan of the evil cable company around here, give me a break.
I'm guilty of these things above, just as many other folks are. I don't believe that we'll see a depression, what I think we'll see is a gradual lowering of the standard of living in the US in our generation, and after we pass on, 3 or 4 down the road the US will no longer be a world power.
This is precisely what scares me.
It also doesn't help that we abused our position as the global power under this Administration.
Public transportation generally sucks in this country...we don't have bullet trains like Japan or Europe...that's how they've survived on with high gas prices. The US is bigger and we have none of this, we still have friggin' AmTrak! I'm afraid when gas prices rise even more this will be an issue and we won't be prepared for it because we haven't invested in it. Our infrastructure was put into place in the Depression because of government programs...I'd argue that was one big factor as to why the U.S. was able to emerge as the world's power after WW2. Now we're not even close to being #1 in infrastructure.
As for the greater good...oil companies investing in alternative fuels would be a nice start, instead they're making record profits and are pocketing it/building monstrousities in Dubai.
Yes we rely too much on technology...and I honestly can't imagine living without my gadgets I have now. Sometimes I wonder how I lived without a cell phone in middle school or without a DVR before this year. I hate camping too...I know this isn't unique to me either. I'll admit to being spoiled my technology...and I wonder how I'd react without it cuz I'm not much of an outdoorsmen.
I agree with the brat thing too...I see it in the kids I watch at camp. Some kids literally can't pull themselves away from their DS's. I'm so glad I never got into handheld gaming as a kid! (Console gaming is another story) If I seem bad, you should see some of these kids. I can at least say my parents have kept a fine balance between not spoiling me but making sure my life wasn't too difficult growing up.
I just wish we put more money into developing alternative fuels, cheaper/more efficient means of public transportation and focused on building the infrastructure. We've put band-aids over these problems when we've needed stitches...and I'm worried the bleeding is going to become too out of control.
This doesn't even get into how politics in this country is pathetic...choosing between lesser of two evils every time rather than someone who's truly genuine.
Last edited by Ammo; 05/27/08 10:50 PM.
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There is a lot of blame to go around.
You know what, homer. There a lot of good, hard-working, honest people like you and arch in this world, but those are the very same people who keep quiet about things.
There are too many people who feel entitled to things. There are those who are wealthy and think their money buys them special treatment. There are those who are poor and of a minority race, and they feel that the world owes them something and they don't have to do anything to earn what they get.
The average working stiff foots the bill for both of the users. And we don't complain. We do it because we were raised right. Work hard and keep your mouth shut. Yet, we continually get taken advantage of.
We are actually the backbone of this country. We are the ones who make it run. We need a more active voice. We need to yell............."Im mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore." *L* Only a few will know that line and I am joking. But......I really do feel that we need to be heard.
The greed of the rich is running this country into the ground. We borrow billions to finance a war we will never win. We spend billions on political campaigns that offer no solutions, but instead, are centered on smear tactics.
The poor continue to wallow in ignorance. And it is a willful ignorance. Yes, I said..."willful." They refuse to assimilate. They kill each other and blame others for their plight. They refuse to be educated. They bilk our tax system out of millions and millions of dollars. They walk around w/their hand out and somehow maintain a chip on their shoulder and are hostile to those who provide for them. Get the hell.outta here w/that.
The country is a mess and primed for a huge fall. Reliance on oil, technology, and excuses have weakened us to a tremendous degree. Gone our the simple values of hard work, honesty, compassion, and integrity.
There are many of us who still have those character traits and I proclaim that we make our voice heard. I implore you good people to not sit idly by while the selfish manipulators continue to destroy our country. I encourage you to demand that our politicians be held accountable....or be voted out.
I beg you to make a stand and make a difference......before it is too late. If this country faces a huge economic crises.......it may very well be the end of the empire. Study your history........see the correlations. Try to make a difference while there is still time!
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
There is a lot of blame to go around.
You know what, homer. There a lot of good, hard-working, honest people like you and arch in this world, but those are the very same people who keep quiet about things.
There are too many people who feel entitled to things. There are those who are wealthy and think their money buys them special treatment. There are those who are poor and of a minority race, and they feel that the world owes them something and they don't have to do anything to earn what they get.
The average working stiff foots the bill for both of the users. And we don't complain. We do it because we were raised right. Work hard and keep your mouth shut. Yet, we continually get taken advantage of.
We are actually the backbone of this country. We are the ones who make it run. We need a more active voice. We need to yell............."Im mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore." *L* Only a few will know that line and I am joking. But......I really do feel that we need to be heard.
The greed of the rich is running this country into the ground. We borrow billions to finance a war we will never win. We spend billions on political campaigns that offer no solutions, but instead, are centered on smear tactics.
The poor continue to wallow in ignorance. And it is a willful ignorance. Yes, I said..."willful." They refuse to assimilate. They kill each other and blame others for their plight. They refuse to be educated. They bilk our tax system out of millions and millions of dollars. They walk around w/their hand out and somehow maintain a chip on their shoulder and are hostile to those who provide for them. Get the hell.outta here w/that.
The country is a mess and primed for a huge fall. Reliance on oil, technology, and excuses have weakened us to a tremendous degree. Gone our the simple values of hard work, honesty, compassion, and integrity.
There are many of us who still have those character traits and I proclaim that we make our voice heard. I implore you good people to not sit idly by while the selfish manipulators continue to destroy our country. I encourage you to demand that our politicians be held accountable....or be voted out.
I beg you to make a stand and make a difference......before it is too late. If this country faces a huge economic crises.......it may very well be the end of the empire. Study your history........see the correlations. Try to make a difference while there is still time!
I couldn't have said it any better. I totally agree on most fronts.
My one disagreement is on technology...I think we need to keep investing in technology and the communication infrastructure. Advancements in technology are necessary for economic growth. (But I do see where you're coming from on the "we need to be able to farm our own crops and hunt our own food in case of a catastrophe" view)
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Just a quick thought....
There were kids born INTO the depression. Making sure to not spoil them, they got drafted and went to Europe or Japan to get killed or wounded. Their children got to go to Vietnam and had their own version "global warming" to worry about; Global Thermal Nuclear War.
Well said
Each generation is left with the baggage of their Fathers generation.
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Public transportation generally sucks in this country...we don't have bullet trains like Japan or Europe...that's how they've survived on with high gas prices. The US is bigger and we have none of this, we still have friggin' AmTrak! I'm afraid when gas prices rise even more this will be an issue and we won't be prepared for it because we haven't invested in it. Our infrastructure was put into place in the Depression because of government programs...I'd argue that was one big factor as to why the U.S. was able to emerge as the world's power after WW2. Now we're not even close to being #1 in infrastructure.Quote:
The US is a HUGE country with a lot of undeveloped land. A Bullet train up the East coast, and maybe another up the west coast might be plausible, but cross country would be a massive waste of money.
You also have the issue of not only building the train, but buying the land. Unlike many other countries, our government does not own and control the use of all the land.
We are more spread out than most countries, hence why public transportation isn't viable for most. NYC, subways and buses work well because you have so many people in a fixed area. You don't have that in Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Miami, Nashville, etc.
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As for the greater good...oil companies investing in alternative fuels would be a nice start, instead they're making record profits and are pocketing it/building monstrousities in Dubai.
Oil companies are making about 10% profit. That's pretty modest for most businesses, and that is before reinvestment into new wells and/or refineries. Furniture sells for 200% markup, electronics is way up there, as are many things.
Yes, they should be investing some of their profits into alternatives. Not because they should for the benefit of us, but because if they don't they will find themselves behind when we finally do ween ourselves off oil. It would be good business sense for them to at least get behind someone researching alternatives, and they may for all we know.
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Yes we rely too much on technology...and I honestly can't imagine living without my gadgets I have now. Sometimes I wonder how I lived without a cell phone in middle school or without a DVR before this year. I hate camping too...I know this isn't unique to me either. I'll admit to being spoiled my technology...and I wonder how I'd react without it cuz I'm not much of an outdoorsmen.Quote:
I love computers and electronics, but I also sometimes wish I lived in a much simpler time. What annoys me now is how kids think they should have cell phones, iPods, game systems, etc. I see kids totally unaware of the world around them , as they walk along texting on their cell phone, and making people go around them, instead of them stepping aside.
Technology is a good thing, when it's used within reason and for the proper reasons. I probably use my cell phone less than 30 minutes a month. Call me, say your point, hang up. I don't really give a damn about the dead rabbit on the side of the road as your driving.
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I agree with the brat thing too...I see it in the kids I watch at camp. Some kids literally can't pull themselves away from their DS's. I'm so glad I never got into handheld gaming as a kid! (Console gaming is another story) If I seem bad, you should see some of these kids. I can at least say my parents have kept a fine balance between not spoiling me but making sure my life wasn't too difficult growing up.
This goes back to the above reply. It's no the technology that is the problem, it's learning how to use the technology properly and with respect to your environment. Don't "chat" on your cell phone about Billy and Suzie breaking up while sitting in a nice restaurant, or during a movie in the theater.
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I just wish we put more money into developing alternative fuels, cheaper/more efficient means of public transportation and focused on building the infrastructure. We've put band-aids over these problems when we've needed stitches...and I'm worried the bleeding is going to become too out of control.Quote:
Like anything else, money doesn't necessarily mean success. The research is being done, and progress is being made. Honda has a Fuel Cell vehicle in southern California. If these tests work out, we will begin to see refueling stations pop-up and fuel cell cars become available. It will take 10-20 years, but it will happen.
Wind and Watermill energy farms are being built. But like anything else, everyone wants cheaper more reliable electricity, but they don't want the plants in their backyard. Solar Cell technology is advancing as we speak.
With each advancement comes new products, and new hope.
One thing America is bad about is change. We love the fantasy idea of new technologies improving efficiency of things, but we are slow to make the conversion. And sometimes, cost makes those changes prohibitive to the general masses.
We can all put solar panels on our roofs now, and provide about 25% of our own electricity, but the cost is 10-15k. Most people can not afford to do it.
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This doesn't even get into how politics in this country is pathetic...choosing between lesser of two evils every time rather than someone who's truly genuine.
Until the time as someone truly just runs on issues, rather than smear politics, I think this is what we will have. The media is as much to blame as anyone, they dig deep to find dirt on everyone, and turn it into a huge issue.
Personally, I don't care if our next President smoked pot when he was 20 and in college. I don't care if he likes to go out and get drunk once a while with his buddies, I don't really even care if he got a DUI 30 years ago, now if he got one 5 years ago I'd question his judgment.
My point being that we are all human, and we all make mistakes, and it from those mistakes they we are supposed to learn.
We are a country that became comfortable in our position, but as the world around us changed, and we didn't keep up. It's no longer just about us, but about our position in the global economy.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Good Lord bro, learn how to quote 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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"Im mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore." *L* Only a few will know that line and I am joking.
Kinda like..."There’s a thin line between Saturday Night and Sunday morning." 
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I get what your saying. It sounds like you had a strict father, like I did.  I'm glad he raised me strict, I would of never been able to survive corporate america  All the short cuts and CYA crap drives me nuts. I really worry about the political stuff now, mainly because I hear a lot of populist type things, and i don't trust that talk at all. What we need is somebody who is willing to do the 'hard thing'. If somebody doesn't step up soon, we are so screwed. China already has us by the nutz. Sometimes I look at my son who has autism and wonder how is he going to adjust to how things are. It's kind of a bummer sometimes.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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To answer your question, yes...you are seeing the end of the United States....the Pax Americana is over......our time of prosperity has passed...just as when the Pax Romana came to an end
Most likely if you have little kids, they won't be Americans when they grow up...This current Economic crisis is being caused "on purpose" to get the North American Union off the ground...our Constitution will be discarded, the new currency will be the Amero...the end of Sovereignty and freedom as we know it.
The 2 primary causes of our countries problems are
1.The Federal Reserve- its prints money out of thin air with no gold, silver or anything of value backing it. Everytime they bail out a bank(like chase) they print 2 billion dollars out of thin air. This = inflation...all the higer prices we have right now are caused by inflation when you have inflation it means the dollar is worth less so it takes more dollars to purchase the same product or service.
2. The Welfare State-The Welfare state we "subsidize" is doing nothing but dragging this country into the abyss..im sorry if you had a kid at 15..that doesn't "entitle" you or anyone to 500 bucks a month in groceries, 600 dollars cash, and a free healthcard...that is "not" the american way...you look at our history..that is NOT the american way...you work for what you want...we have 3rd and 4th generation welfare families in this country...something is wrong here...these people have no incentive to work...30% of the population pays for the other 70%....the government doesn't owe anyone jack in entitlements.
Hard working Americans are being "robbed" get rid of the welfare state and our bases overseas, and then guess what....we wouldn't need an income tax..you would get your gross pay which for most people would be a 35-40% pay increase...thats substantial
Daniel Webster one of the greatest senators in history who opposed an income tax said and i quote "a man can never truely say he is free if he can't enjoy the fruits of his labors"
Its unfair and wrong to "take from one and give to another" you work hard for that money, "its your money" why should they take 25% of your yearly earnings and give it to someone else who don't want to work or has 3 kids with 3 different men...you say og the little kids, thats not "you or our problem" that is HER problem...the american way is "taking care of your own yourself" my dad worked 3 freaking jobs and my mom worked one to take care of us...when we had hard times...americans have lost their vitality..and we are being robbed
Please justify to me how it is fair for a girl with 2 kids who only "paid" 400 dollars in income taxes the whole year to get a 2 or 3 thousand dollar tax return!?..thats horse crap!...they are taking that money away from hard working American families and struggling small business...that is nothing more than being robbed
the Welfare State has to go
rome started a welfare state, its nothing new...they fell apart
The Soviet Union did the same thing...look what happened to them
now it is happening to us
do you know in the next 6 years it would require every American to hand over 65% of his current yearly earnings to keep up with the current Welfare entitlements...do you want to lose 60% of your hard earned wages to take care of other people who have nothing wrong with them that need to take care of themselves?
i mean come on...i see folks in the grocery store on welfare that eat better than i do that are driving around brand new 30,000 dollar SUV's..if it wasn't a crime i would beat the living tar out of them and literally tar and feather them in front of the whole freaking world...it makes me mad im being freaking robbed! im sick and tired of it!
no one owes anyone anything, you only owe yourself!.
The Department of Education
Welfare
Federal Reserve
All are "unconstitutional"
all ahve theor roots in Communism..its kinda funny..i thought america hated communism..yet we have embraced most of its idealogies
If you think Welfare and all those things are acceptable and needed then Congratualtions you are a Communist and you don't even know it...if you think the Federal Government should decide what is taught in your schools with your tax dollars that built that school...congrats again you are a communist
I chanllenge everyone here...Read the Communist Manifesto and then Read the Federalist Papers and the Constitution ..you will see how much the Founders were against such programs
This country had the 2nd ranked Education system in the entire world before the Department of Education was founded
We had the Best healthcare system and cheapest Helathcare system in the world before Welfare
Everything our government has touched they have ruined...freedom and the Constitution does work, the Constitution and follwing it is just as valid today as it was in 1776..even though the neo-cons will tell you otherwise
we have undermined everything that made our country great..we had the best charity hospital system in the world...no need for welfare
Make doctors immune to malpractice suits, and "encourage" charity hospitals and the healthcare system in this country will improve greatly
do you know your tax dollars are given to some artist who sucks and no one will buy or look at any of his work..millions a year..what a waste
our country has been run into the ground...
like is aid..if you believe in
Welfare
Government subsidized healthcare
Food stamps
etc
You are a Communist...plain and simple...this is nothing more than Marxism..sadly most Americans don't even know they are Communists....
The world has a much more dangerous place during the Cold War...Russia had thousands of nukes pointed at us...with an army navy and airforce equal to our own...yet then we were alot freer than we are today..we the people have failed our constitution and the founders...we have failed at liberty and freedom...we allow 7 unelected life appointed lawyers in washington to decide matters such as abortion, prayer in school and other things that the Supreme Court doesn't have the authority to decide because those powers are held Squalrly in the 10th Amendment for the people and the states..Congress won't step up to the plate and "strip" the Supreme Court of its juristiction over the matter(Which Article 3 section 8 of the U.S Constitution gives Congress this authority, its one of the checks and balances) in a true republic, a Court of unelected lawyers should not have the final say...we the people should.....
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I agree with some of what you said and disagree with other parts of it. While I'm not rich, I don't have much of a taste for the "evil rich" mentality that seems to be so prevalent today. The top 1% pays 29% of taxes, the top 5% pays 53% and the top 50% pays pretty much all of it. The rich create jobs and provide goods and services cheaply that we want/need. Sure, there are some people who abuse their wealth or feel "entitled," but there's no need to dump on the rich just because they have a lot of money. For example: liberals loving the expiration of the Bush tax cuts because the rich will get hit with higher tax rates... despite the fact that the middle class will as well. Honestly, a lot of the "Great Depression" concern goes back to the government (and I mean on both sides of the political spectrum). Washington, in general, needs to control its out of control spending. It's killing me to listen to all these political candidates to propose hundreds of billions of dollars in new spending that there's no way we can afford (whether it be Clinton/Obama and health care or McCain and his global warming spending). Much of the extra spending is for people that you mentioned sitting there with their hands out waiting for the next government kickback. Gotta win the votes you know. What Washington NEEDS in my opinion is some leadership. They need someone to stand up, cut ridiculous spending, cut taxes, fix our border situation and do whatever it takes to get energy independence... not just for the future but NOW. If that means drilling while we find alternatives, then we drill. It was a ridiculous spectacle last week to watch Congress call "big oil" in and grill them about why oil was so high when it would've been cheaper for Congress to just buy a mirror. Instead, we have a bunch of pansies and panderers who continue to spend us into oblivion as our energy and food prices go through the roof, our national deficit grows and inflation follows suit. Sometimes I wonder what has happened to our nation. 
We're... we're good?
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I think a few of you (see 2 posts above this one) need to think long and hard about getting your passport ready and see what it takes to leave the US...  We are not in or near a depression state currently. Recession? Sure, I'll give you that. It would take quite a bit for ANY administration to allow the US to slip into a depression. And I mean the actual definition of a depression, not just high gas prices. As others have said in this thread, each and every generation faces new challenges. This is nothing new. And so far, the US has risen above and done quite well. If you don't think so, spend some time traveling to other countries and you'll see what I am talking about. And if you truly believe the US is headed down the drain, I have one suggestion - MAKE SOME MONEY ON YOUR BET. Learn what 'shorting' a stock is and short till you can't short anymore. If your bet is right, you'll be a multi-millionaire and can move to the Cayman Islands.  Of course, very few would actually put their worthless dollars behind your doom and gloom prediction, right? It's the same thing with oil - if you are tired of seeing prices rise, then learn how to MAKE MONEY ON OIL PRICES. But, yet again, it's so much easier to just take a doom and gloom approach and talk about how bad the US gov't is and that they need to step in and bring prices down. That ain't gonna happen anytime soon, so take a few minutes each day and learn what options are available to you to make money on oil prices instead of just complaining on a message board.
Last edited by CDawg; 05/29/08 12:28 AM.
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I think a lot of it has to do with how far away we've gotten from our founding principles. The country was founded on the principles of freedom and free markets, independence, self-reliance, responsibility, common sense, small government etc. Instead, we've become the exact opposite. It's absolutely ridiculous to watch us move towards a more socialist/communist country as we watch every single example of socialism and communism around the world crash and burn. We're moving farther AWAY from capitalism as the rest of the world moves CLOSER to it. Socialism and communism don't work. How many lemmings do we have to see walk off a cliff before we stop heading there ourselves?
We're... we're good?
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Quote:
I think a few of you (see 2 posts above this one) need to think long and hard about getting your passport ready and see what it takes to leave the US...
We are not in or near a depression state currently. Recession? Sure, I'll give you that.
It would take quite a bit for ANY administration to allow the US to slip into a depression. And I mean the actual definition of a depression, not just high gas prices.
As others have said in this thread, each and every generation faces new challenges. This is nothing new. And so far, the US has risen above and done quite well. If you don't think so, spend some time traveling to other countries and you'll see what I am talking about.
And if you truly believe the US is headed down the drain, I have one suggestion - MAKE SOME MONEY ON YOUR BET. Learn what 'shorting' a stock is and short till you can't short anymore. If your bet is right, you'll be a multi-millionaire and can move to the Cayman Islands. Of course, very few would actually put their worthless dollars behind your doom and gloom prediction, right?
It's the same thing with oil - if you are tired of seeing prices rise, then learn how to MAKE MONEY ON OIL PRICES. But, yet again, it's so much easier to just take a doom and gloom approach and talk about how bad the US gov't is and that they need to step in and bring prices down. That ain't gonna happen anytime soon, so take a few minutes each day and learn what options are available to you to make money on oil prices instead of just complaining on a message board.
We're probably in a recession right now and it's going to be a very deep one IMO. Depression is the absolute worst case scenario and I think everyone understands that it is a very remote possibility. However, it's important to realize that even though we always have conquered new challenges, we don't have anyone in positions of power right now that is doing anything about it.
What I'm talking about is much greater than shorting stocks or investing in commodities (I'm in finance, I know how to make money in a time like this, please don't preach at me). I'm talking about the fact that we have an incredible wave of debt that keeps building higher and higher, a currency that is getting hit hard because the Fed is fighting the recession while letting inflation go out of control and dependence on a bunch of hostile countries for oil just to name a few.
Can we come out of things fine? Absolutely... with the right solutions. However... do you think letting the government spend money like a drunken sailor, refusing to take any steps to get our own oil, raising taxes which will further discourage business, funding more government freebies, over-regulating and socializing business etc. is the way to do it? Isn't that just a little disconcerting to you?
IMO, it's much more important to be concerned about the big picture than the personal picture. After all, if inflation keeps going out of control and one day in the distant future the government's credit rating (which the entire bond market is based off of) some day takes a hit (heaven forbid), all that cash you made betting against the US won't be buying as much as you think.
Again, much of this is worst-case scenario, but the fact that it's even a possibility is frightening enough.
We're... we're good?
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All Pro
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I tend to agree with that. Living on credit is like building a house on a foundation of termite infested wood. Only a matter of time till it collapses.
Personally at 22, I'm very fortunate to not have, or want a credit card of any kind. I was raised to live within whatever means I have. To be honest, I'm grateful to have done without...I remember going without electricity and eating the same dinner for 1-2 weeks. That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger. And besides, its not like I dwell on it and think about how horrible my childhood was. (which is how some parents justify spoiling their kids.)
If I cant afford something, it simply waits till I save enough money to get it. The only time it really is a pain is in an emergency, but in that case I have about 1-2000 dollars saved at any time for said emergencies. It really is not that hard to live without credit IMO. UNLESS one cannot live within their means.
I'm fortunate to have learned a great many lessons from my grandpa and living within my means is the 2nd most important one. (Behind being honest.)
I'm going to have to read on the roaring 20s and see if I can draw some parallels. It does seem that we are heading toward some kind of collapse. The question is when...
"I don't remember any of my catches. I remember the drops." - Kellen Winslow II
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Where is there in the world where pinciples like that responsibility, small government, etc. prevalent? I much would like to live there in a more Libertarian environment...
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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2nd String
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We're going to be fine. Several things happening now were somewhat inevitable. We were due for a bad year. We had several good years in a row. Those of you who do any investing likely know what I am talking about (if you invested in the right areas...)
Gas prices really aren't that high. $4 a gallon doesn't seem that ridiculous to me. $8 a gallon would be ridiculous. People will stop buying SUVs so much and learn to conserve more... $4 gas sucks. You can offset your losses by investing in energy stock. I know my energy stocks go up when the price of crude goes up, and it helps offset some of the damage.
Housing prices were inflated and underwent a "correction" that they needed. Sucks for house flippers but those greedy people are getting what they deserved now. It sucks for the rest of us now that we all pay a price for their greediness, but that happens...
Again, we were in for a "bad year." We were due. Great depression? No way. We have way too much going for us... I don't think people should be as scared as they are. I think things will turn around again.
I also would recommend for people to do long term investing... short term trading is much higher in risk and has a lot of tax consequences...
Just clicking...
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I'm not saying this recession will be the Depression I'm talking about. I think the market will recover this time around.
But next time? I'm not so sure. If gas reaches points where it cripples the economy and we STILL don't have alternative fuels? That's when I worry.
I just feel like we're so far behind on so many fronts. I'm not much of a government program guy, but I really think government should be funding alternative fuel research and infrastructure development/overhaul much more than they are now...hell, imagine if we did that with all the money spent in Iraq!
EDIT: I also do believe in a "minimum coverage healthcare" plan too but that's for another topic...
Last edited by Ammo; 05/29/08 08:14 AM.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Good Lord bro, learn how to quote
I must have left one unclosed quote somewhere.. oops 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I'm 53 and during these last few years have been concerned by inflation and the falling value of the dollar. These years have brought back to mind what caused the great inflation of the 70's: spending for the Great Society, Vietnam, and oil. The entitlement programs are still around and oil again has gone through the roof. And now we got an wars in the Mid-East that the younger generation will need to pay for.
When Clinton took office the national debt was: $4,174 trillion.
Eight years later the government owed: $5,728 trillion.
Today the figure is $9,393 trillion.
The only way out is pretty much the old stand-by: cheapen the value of the dollar. With retirement on the horizon, that's sort of scary.
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Depression will happen...and I will explain why it will happen
1. We don't have the manufacturing infrastructure in this country we had in the 1940s and 1970's...part of the reason we were able to get out of the Great Depression is because 90% of our Steel, Coal, and other manufacturing jobs were located in the United States. Today less than 7% of all manufacturing jobs are in the United States..thats a HUGE difference in your economic infastructure and is needed to rescue a country.
2. Nothing of value backs the U.S Dollar anymore. Inflation will continue to get worse until we go back to gold, silver, or something else of value backing our currency. This controls in flation on its own. You can't print anymore money when you don't have the value added stuff there to back it...this keeps the currency "self regulated" against inflation. Also, it gives your currecy much more buying power. Do you know in the 1st quarter of 2008 the United States dollar "lost" 20% of its buying power? 20%....it buys 20% less and is probably worse now...had we had gold or something backing it, this would nort have occured
You must have a strong currecy to have a strong economy....during the Great Depression, we had a strong Gold backed currecy that never lost any of its buying power, the bad investments of failing banks, and transparent credit caused the Great Depression more than the stock market crash. The Government has dug us a hole with our currecny that is now impossible to get out of because there is nothing of value backing our dollar...its just a worthless piece of paper.
Many countries are now "refusing" to use the dollar as a price gauge and beginning to go to other gold or sliver based currencies, which have much more buying power against our dollar, which in turn causes things to get more expensive for us.
It is imperitive that this country "atleast" go back to a sliver based currecny..back the dollar with silver...this will cause the value of the dollar to rise again and is the 1st crucial step to fixing this economic mess....you can't fix the economy with a failing currecny unless you fix the currency 1st and this is the only way to fix it
you can't print money out of thin air and not expect inflation....inflation isn't going to just disappear on its own, it must be combated..and this is the only way to fix the dollar. Fix the dollar, and you can fix 90% of our economic mess.
Sadly this won't happen, and things will get worse...Experts Predict Gas to be close to 5.60 bucks a gallon by july, not to mention a 18% increase in inflation to go with it...we are treading on dangerous ground.
Ron Paul told us we would exactly be in this current situation 3 years ago...he accurately predicted we would be paying 4 dollars for a gallon of gas today back in 2006....we failed to listen...and its only going to get worse.
that man has a better understanding of currency and fiscal policy of just about any man in history of this nation except President Taft....
we must fix our dollar
and yes the North American Union is "real" and it is a very very very bad thing.....
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1st String
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1st String
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Quote:
Depression will happen...and I will explain why it will happen
1. We don't have the manufacturing infrastructure in this country we had in the 1940s and 1970's...part of the reason we were able to get out of the Great Depression is because 90% of our Steel, Coal, and other manufacturing jobs were located in the United States. Today less than 7% of all manufacturing jobs are in the United States..thats a HUGE difference in your economic infastructure and is needed to rescue a country.
2. Nothing of value backs the U.S Dollar anymore. Inflation will continue to get worse until we go back to gold, silver, or something else of value backing our currency. This controls in flation on its own. You can't print anymore money when you don't have the value added stuff there to back it...this keeps the currency "self regulated" against inflation. Also, it gives your currecy much more buying power. Do you know in the 1st quarter of 2008 the United States dollar "lost" 20% of its buying power? 20%....it buys 20% less and is probably worse now...had we had gold or something backing it, this would nort have occured
You must have a strong currecy to have a strong economy....during the Great Depression, we had a strong Gold backed currecy that never lost any of its buying power, the bad investments of failing banks, and transparent credit caused the Great Depression more than the stock market crash. The Government has dug us a hole with our currecny that is now impossible to get out of because there is nothing of value backing our dollar...its just a worthless piece of paper.
Many countries are now "refusing" to use the dollar as a price gauge and beginning to go to other gold or sliver based currencies, which have much more buying power against our dollar, which in turn causes things to get more expensive for us.
It is imperitive that this country "atleast" go back to a sliver based currecny..back the dollar with silver...this will cause the value of the dollar to rise again and is the 1st crucial step to fixing this economic mess....you can't fix the economy with a failing currecny unless you fix the currency 1st and this is the only way to fix it
you can't print money out of thin air and not expect inflation....inflation isn't going to just disappear on its own, it must be combated..and this is the only way to fix the dollar. Fix the dollar, and you can fix 90% of our economic mess.
Sadly this won't happen, and things will get worse...Experts Predict Gas to be close to 5.60 bucks a gallon by july, not to mention a 18% increase in inflation to go with it...we are treading on dangerous ground.
Ron Paul told us we would exactly be in this current situation 3 years ago...he accurately predicted we would be paying 4 dollars for a gallon of gas today back in 2006....we failed to listen...and its only going to get worse.
that man has a better understanding of currency and fiscal policy of just about any man in history of this nation except President Taft....
we must fix our dollar
and yes the North American Union is "real" and it is a very very very bad thing.....
When you refer to the North American Union are you talking about the "monsters" that the Kennedies "fought" against?
Just wondering cause I remember talking to a stock broker/insurance sales man/financial advisor, and talked about the President that gave the Federal Reserve the power they hold today, and how it is actually unconstitutional. The Kennedies tried to right this wrong and is why they have been assasinated. He said that at a conference he went to he joked with a guy that is part of the Federal Reserve and the guy made some comments about this. The guy working for the Federal Reserve said there is no one big enough to stop this. He didn't get into detail, just a vague comment.
So I was wondering if this little story had anything to do with what your talking about, cause it sounds like it to me.
Did any of that make sense?
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We are pretty much in agreement and I think you misunderstood my perspective on the rich. In fact, would you call me rich if the combined household income for my wife and I was about $475,000 a year? And I have much more invested that I do not even count. We associate w/many rich people and I can tell you that they abuse the tax system. As for the rest..........since you are in finance, I am fairly certain that you know more about this stuff than I do. I will defer to you. I don't like to talk like I know things when I am not an expert on the subject. So.....thanks for the knowledge. I have to put this in here..............who was the guy who said we "had one bad year?" LOL.........are you freaking kidding me? This has been ongoing for quite some time. One bad year..........
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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