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3) Having an "easy" schedule compared to this season's "difficult" schedule, our team will work that much harder to prepare for each opponent.
Bingo...Like the says goes, Were not gonna sneak up on anybody this year, there gonna be ready for us, 
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When you're defending DA, and I don't disagree with your points in that, you have stated that Savage and RAC knows more than we do and that we should trust them. Yet, when they discuss the safety situation, you disagree with them totally. I'm not sure I see the difference.
I don't think too many people on here think DA sucks.. As for the safeties, the way I read is that he feels we are in decent shape. I don't think it's a glowing endorsement and that we would pass on Palamaleu if he fell into our laps.. I just think he's saying that it's not a glaring weakness..
He might also be saying, "Now that we are building a respectable front 7 that can limit the run and get some pass rush, we can better evaluate our safeties"... Heaven knows its hard to evaluate safeties when they make 80% of your tackles against the run AND when the other QB has 7 seconds to throw...
So if the front 7 is as improved as we all hope it is, we will find out relatively quickly what we have at safety. 
yebat' Putin
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A few "Love Letter" articles by sports writers that don't actually know what's going on or reasearch what they report and everyone thinks this team is a powerhouse.
It's not.
Maybe not, but the team doesn't appear to be the doormat it was when Savage got here either..
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E Wright got tons of love last year - and for a rookie he played well. He's not a shutdown corner though. He still makes rookie mistakes and has tons of room for improvement.
Are you assuming he'll continue to make rookie mistakes? Of course he made Rookie mistakes last year,, he was, after all, a rookie... But I think most everyone will agree, he showed some talent for a Rook and the hope is, he improves..
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Pool - omg..... He's terrible. All the excuses and talk of "potential" remind me of that QB from KY we used to start.... Pool hasn't done squat. He may "someday" be great but most every game so far he's been bad. Why the lovefest for this underachiever?
Not sure there actually is much of a love fest for Pool. But guys like Savage and RAC have been around the block.. if he was as bad as you say, I can't help feeling that would not have let Russell get away and sometime in the last two drafts or in FA, we would have picked up a better safety.
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BE- still drops balls that hit him in the hands and chest. Makes unreal diving and leaping catches and has plenty of talent but still drops way too many easy catches.
80 catches, 1289 yards, 16 TD's and a 16.1 YPC.. I don't know about you, but with those numbers, I have no problem with a few boneheaded stupid drops.. Jerry Rice wasn't perfect either.
I'm getting the idea that while some want to drink the Kool Aid, as you put it, others, such as yourself, look at things completely from the dark side.
Having said that, you seem to make perfectly legitimate assumptions that may turn out to be true.. But I hope like hell that you are wrong...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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On the Safeties, I read it as has been already alluded to by others.... We don't need Doss because we already have what he offers in the form of Pool. It also tells me that they do indeed see Pool exactly as lots of folks on here have described him... a liability in coverage.
The only point of contention would be the statement where he says "We feel pretty good about our safety position right now,". And that may simply be because there isn't anything out there that is going to offer us more than what we've already got. It may also say that one of the guys behind Pool may be showing something and we may already be covered.
On the ILB's, it is nice to see the candid report of what we've all seen happen in the hole when a RB comes up at us... and it's quite nice to see him think that we will be improved at that this year.
As for the QB's... I think they're comfortable with both of them, and Derek did enough to earn himself an opportunity to prove that he can do it long-term and be our man. If he is not able to do that, I read it as they are prepared to go with Quinn, but the job is not Quinn's to win... it is Derek's to lose or keep.
Overall though, the difference in talent levels and depth of this team versus what Phil inherited is just ridiculous. Now that we are where we are, it is maddening and somewhat depressing to think back to what we had been served for so long.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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What am i missing here ... to me ....
Doss = Jones .... Pool is suppose to do the things they can't ...
tabber??
can either of u guys tell me what I'm missing here????
and my take is ....
Pool MAYBE similiar to Dra ... and i have NO CLUE .... one of the things u can't see on TV no matter how many times U watch the game is what the safeties are doing or suppose to be doing ... unless there close to the LOS and Pool is never near the LOS ..
anyhow .. he could be similiar to Dra in that he's not very good at all but we have BIGGER FISH TO FRY ... so replacing him is not a priority .. and like i said .. I HAVE NO CLUE ... Opie and RAC may see things in him that warrant more time ... i dunno ...
anyhow .. tabber/vers ... what the hell am I missing here in the Doss = Jones ...... Pool does the other stuff ...
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So if the front 7 is as improved as we all hope it is, we will find out relatively quickly what we have at safety.
You will quickly find out how our safeties are just fine..... and that Pool and Jones are going to finally get their just do, and be recognized as a tandem that is one of the best in the league.
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Doss is more of a run support SS than a cover FS..so basically even though Doss PLAYS FS..he resembles Sean Jones in that he plays more in the box than cover people...
Pool is considered more of the pass covering safety..hope that made sense.
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thats what i thought ... even though they play different positions ....
Doss = Jones ...
Pool = the other things ..
I didn't know that Doss was "technically" a FS ... he is not even close to that .. his coverage skills are BRUTAL on a good day ...
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E Wright got tons of love last year - and for a rookie he played well. He's not a shutdown corner though. He still makes rookie mistakes and has tons of room for improvement.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you assuming he'll continue to make rookie mistakes? Of course he made Rookie mistakes last year,, he was, after all, a rookie... But I think most everyone will agree, he showed some talent for a Rook and the hope is, he improves..
If we grade only on what we've seen (not potential) then I don't think Wright can be graded higher than a B- as a (now) second year CB. I felt like he may be the Andra Davis of the CB's - praised and adored because he didn't suck. Of course I'm hoping for second year growth and improvement, but it remains an unknown if it happens.
If we weren't so paper thin at CB I wouldn't be as worried. A second year player is our "veteran starter" at CB along side another second year guy that didn't even play much.. That's scary.
Factor in that neither of them are going to get bailed out by Pool and it's got to be the #1 area for any OC to attack us.
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Not sure there actually is much of a love fest for Pool. But guys like Savage and RAC have been around the block.. if he was as bad as you say, I can't help feeling that would not have let Russell get away and sometime in the last two drafts or in FA, we would have picked up a better safety.
Have their been any safeties available in FA to replace Pool that were significant? None are jumping to mind. Draft-wise it's tough to draft starters in the 4th and 5th rounds.... I think Russell was disliked by RAC - I don't have anything to back that up - I just always got the impression that RAC didn't care much for his game. I think if you asked our players they'd tell that they missed Russell last year.
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Jerry Rice wasn't perfect either.
Sorry, but in his prime he was perfect 
BE should be in his prime now and it's time for him to start catching the routine passes. Last year was a big step in the right direction but don't forget two years ago he looked very bad. BE and KW2 are the the #1 & #2 guys that our coaching staff have to make sure their ego's stay under control. The difference is that KW2 is a phenom. BE needs to work hard to be great.
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If we grade only on what we've seen (not potential) then I don't think Wright can be graded higher than a B- as a (now) second year CB.
I'm having a hard time with that only because there isn't any evidence that he won't excel in his second year..
The whole Pool thing is strange. I mean I understand what everyone is saying and yeah, I see the problem as well. But something else is going on with Pool that I can't get a handle on. RAC and Savage have gone out and traded for people on the Dline. They have scooped up guys in FA for the Oline when needed.
I'm having a hard time believing they think as many of us do about Pool. They must see something we don't. and that's thier jobs. But I grant that I could be totally wrong. For me, it's a hard read.
Rice was terrific,, you won't get an argument out of me, but perfect? No I don't think so. He had to have dropped passes.. Nobody,, no receiver of any note has gone dropless in any given season.. But that's not really the point.
The point is with what Braylon accomplished last season, I'd think that a little slack is in order over the drops he's had. JMO however.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Gotta be strong up the middle first like many sports. Hope Bell is the thang!
Go Brownies!
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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i'm glad we had the schedule we did... it was a blessing in disguise...
I agree comepletely. It was a huge psycological victory for the entire orgainzation.
Most important I think it spared up the absurd and self destructive front office purge that we've been doing every three years. It should finally ensure that we give a HC and GM a full five years before a knee jerk rebuilding taht would have set us back yet again.
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Quote:
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i'm glad we had the schedule we did... it was a blessing in disguise...
I agree comepletely. It was a huge psycological victory for the entire orgainzation.
Most important I think it spared up the absurd and self destructive front office purge that we've been doing every three years. It should finally ensure that we give a HC and GM a full five years before a knee jerk rebuilding taht would have set us back yet again.
Agree as well. Just hope no rash decisions are made if we come back down to earth a little this year.
I think we have one more year of growth ... then about a 4 or 5 year run - health willing - of being a serious contender.
Last edited by Rishuz; 05/30/08 05:33 PM.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Dang, that is a long article,, But did you notice that he did indeed drop passes  Anyway, I never meant to call you out or anything, but the outlook you have is kinda doom and gloom and in the end, it might turn out you are right,, I am just hoping you aren't...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I wasn't WRONG about BE.
You were wrong about BE in the sense that you wrote him off because his actions really bothered you - you let emotion get into your debate when you talked about BE. It's the same thing Diam does with BQ. Both of you have forgotten more about football than I'll ever know...but it's just how I see it.
...and you'll get your 'I told you so' moment with B-Easy the next time we drop 9 games. 
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"When I first got here and looked at what we had, I told someone I thought our long-snapper (Ryan Pontibrand) was about the best player at his specific skill,"
HMMMM I rember saying just that when Ryan was drafted 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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He's actually a strong safety..I got it mixed up...he was NEVER EVER good in coverage..
But from what I gathered he wouldn't be playing SS here..he'd be playing FS..but still he can't cover a bed with a sheet...he's a run support guy..nothing more..
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was he was a headcase. He was a team cancer. He disrespected teammates and coaches a ton. He didn't work hard. He was late a lot. He didn't pay attention and didn't know all the plays. He didn't run good routes and didn't even try to. I stand by those comments. I was not wrong about that.
Vers just a few questions...
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What proof do you have that BE was a team cancer?
How do you know he was late??
How do you know he didnt know all the plays or pay attention?
Did you hear a player say that?
Did you hear a coach say that?
seriously.....
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I remember BE mouthing off, getting in coaches and other players faces, poppping off to/in the media, taking plays off, dropping balls, way to many of them, not blocking very well, ... His route running ability was in question and he was having some struggles picking up the 0... There were more than idle concerns about BE doing to much away from the game too...
I remember many on here having more than some concern about BE... I was one of those many... I believe I said he neeed to work harder and shut his hole and play...
BE has flaws in his game... He has to improve in those areas in order for him not to be a one and done guy... As has been pointed out here by many one good year does not mean a player has arrived, will be an HOF'er and won't go backwards... IMO, vertic still out on BE for me...
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I dont disregard anything your saying, however, sometimes others on this board tend to discredit the statements of other with a line of questioning like mine. I can think of a curent hread where this exact same situation is ongoing and I just want to know HOW does the verse dawg KNOW this.
We all watch the team and form opinions but I want to know how he knows what he states as a fact.
Not an attack at all....just a serious question.
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Assassin ,
Vers has access to inside info. He's been proven right on several occasions.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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I think that you are way off when you say RAC didn't like Russel. Romeo has said before that he loves smart safeties. Russel is exactly the type fo guy RAC likes. I think that we thought Pool was ready and we could afford to lose Russel. Looking back on it, it was probably a mistake, but hindsight is 20/20.
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I can't verify everything that vers is saying, but there were times that in the media prior to last year, where BE popped off a little too much, then there was the time he was in Charlie Fryes face during a game and as far as not being in the right place at the right time,, Can't say for sure, but it sure as hell felt that way..
So there is some verifable things that Vers is referring to, but I suspect that his comments are coming from the insider info that he has access too.
I know where you are coming from, wanting to find out if it's just some whacko poster that's just making stuff up or someone that actually has inside info..
Vers and I rarely get along or agree on much, but this much I'm pretty sure of, he DOES have inside info.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Vers without a doubt has inside info, and he can be trusted as being honest.
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What proof do you have that BE was a team cancer?
Trust me on this one. Vers is 100 percent correct. BE has however grown up a lot since then
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I will say that Vers is correct in what he's saying about BE. He was at the very least a distraction before last year. The people I know involved with the team wouldn't use the word "cancer", but there was definately some dissension surrounding BE during the 06 season.
You can take or leave what I say, as I always tell people. However, I have heard the same things Vers is saying even if it wasn't worded as strongly.
As GM has said, he has grown up quite a bit this last season, so hopefully all that is water under the bridge.
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I just asked because alot of time he voices his opinion, states it as fact, and chastizes everybody else who does the same thing... because they cant answer the same questions I asked.
Same questions........expecting a solid reply.
Lets have it.
Last edited by The Assassin; 05/31/08 12:47 PM.
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As far as proof, all I have is my past posts with this type of information that has later been made public. You can take it or leave it.
I know he was late because I was told by one the players that he was late.
I know he ran the wrong routes because I was told that by more than one player.
It's pretty common knowledge on here that a handful of us have access to people in the organization. Vers, Mav, and myself have posted things we have heard and know and then later on the media reported it. So, as I say every time I post something like this, you can take it or leave it. I wasn't there, but I have talked to people that were and one of them was pretty close to BE.
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No Offense there assassin,, but I think that there are a few of us on here that have given you things that demonstrate that BE was a Prima Donna and a distraction... (having said that, I am betting nobody feels that way anymore, he's matured)
Then I think some of us have also verified that Vers has some insider info.. I'm not sure what else he, or any of us can do.
If your expecting him to say he's RAC's neighbor and RAC told him all of this, well, That ain't gonna happen. Don't expect him to reveal his source within the Browns.. I just don't see it happening.. Really,, you wouldn't do that either if the roles were reversed,,,
As for if Vers ever says things that are his opinions but sound like facts because of how he says them,,, Yeah, he has.. so have I, and so have a ton of others..
Beyond that, I'm not exactly sure what you need to feel better about it.
Keep in mind here, I'm a guy that rarely agrees with anything Vers says..More accurately, the way he says it. so I am NOT trying to back him up.. But right is right and I felt I had to at least say so..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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One thing I noticed that IMHO helped Braylon was Jurevicius' official challenge to him to become more of a team player.
Does anybody remember that interview?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Then I think some of us have also verified that Vers has some insider info.. I'm not sure what else he, or any of us can do.
If your expecting him to say he's RAC's neighbor and RAC told him all of this, well, That ain't gonna happen. Don't expect him to reveal his source within the Browns.. I just don't see it happening.. Really,, you wouldn't do that either if the roles were reversed,,,
As for if Vers ever says things that are his opinions but sound like facts because of how he says them,,, Yeah, he has.. so have I, and so have a ton of others..
Beyond that, I'm not exactly sure what you need to feel better about it.
Keep in mind here, I'm a guy that rarely agrees with anything Vers says..More accurately, the way he says it. so I am NOT trying to back him up.. But right is right and I felt I had to at least say so..
This is such a crap response.
If anyone has insider information and are using that to form and back an opinion, they should disclose it ... period.
If not, they are certainly not entitled to play all high and mighty that their perceived opinion holds more merit than someone else's when in fact it's not an opinion at all.
What is so hard about saying ... 'I was told by someone in the organization ......... '
CoachB, it may be common knowledge to some posters that a few of you have inside information but not to all. Furthermore, the posters with inside information don't always have info on every single topic. It would sure be nice to know what angle you guys are coming from when debating a topic.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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When I am giving my opinion, I just give it. When I am talking about something that I got from within the organization, I state that as well. You are right, there are some newbies coming in all the time and may not have read the past debates where such a thing is stated. One tends to forget that 
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When I am giving my opinion, I just give it. When I am talking about something that I got from within the organization, I state that as well.
I appreciate the fact that you do that CoachB. Thanks.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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This is such a crap response.
If anyone has insider information and are using that to form and back an opinion, they should disclose it ... period.
Clearly, You are someone that can't be trusted with sensitive info.. If you were, then you would understand that you don't betray a trust..
Anyone and everyone that has posted what they call "inside info" has told people take it or leave it..
And yeah, sometimes those that post that info are offended that folks don't just trust them,, That's just as wrong IMO,
But you thinking that someone should betray a trust... sorry man,, I ain't buying into what you are selling... Most reasonable people won't either...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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As usual, you completely miss the concept.
I'm not asking anyone to reveal who the source is ... simply that they are forming their opinion based on information the rest of us don't have.
If you consider that betraying someone's trust, then maybe those people should refrain from debates where they have inside information.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Wait, are you saying that they should disclose that it's opinion based on inside info.... Not that they should reveal thier source?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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He's not referring to you, anyway. You don't have any inside info. Repeating what Vers said doesn't count........ 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Otto, he's responding to my post.. I'm merely asking if I understood him correctly..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165 |
Quote:
but the outlook you have is kinda doom and gloom and in the end, it might turn out you are right,, I am just hoping you aren't...
I just think the fans and the media are gettiing carried away. Since when is expecting 8-8 doom and gloom? I fully expect us to make a playoff push.
We just have to realize that the only road to the playoffs this year is by winning the division outright. Enter Pittsburgh. If we don't at the very least split with the Steelers we could find ourselves mathamaticly frozen out for the second year in a row.
Other divisions are likely to grab the Wild Card positions I'd be shocked if the AFC South didn't take at least one - or maybe even both. With the Colts, Jags, Titans, and Texans all in the same div they seem the best candidate to have two 10-Win teams.
There's little chance a wildcard goes to the AFC East. The Pats will win the div and the Jets and Fins are bad teams. The Bills may make some noise but I think they have some growing to do yet.
The AFC West is lopsided too. The Chargers will win the div. The Chiefs and Raiders will both be bad. Maybe the Broncos get back on track.
I'll have to go take a look at the AFC South schedules and see who they have outside of the division.
But it all comes down to the same thing as always - The road to the AFC North goes through Pittsburgh.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Savage Seeing Fruits Of Labor
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![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
and I found a really interesting read:
