DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Davidson / Offensive Questions

I've got two questions that I'm interested in hearing theories on 'cause these last 3 games are gettin' me all confused on what this offense if trying to do.

1. Remember when Davidson took over before the Jets game and we loaded the line and switched to a zone blocking scheme?

According to the press, the reasoning was because of the lack of athleticism on the OL. Worked fairly well against the Jets, and then so so against San Diego where we mainly stuck w/ zone blocking but Reuben failed miserably to hit the seams.

Mind you that zone blocking isn't good or bad, just different, but against Atlanta we had Druzzi and Hank pulling on every other running play. It worked some times (especially for shorter yardage), but did the OL become more athletic when we weren't watching, or did Davidson figure out that Reuben isn't able to take advantage of zone blocking? Why would we switch back and forth like that? I always assumes that decision was based more on the offensive personnel than the opposition.

2. Why does the offense seem to struggle more in the second half?

Maybe Davidson watches tape and tweaks our existing plays throughout the week to create mismatches, but once the defense adjusts during the game he has limited options to counter with.
Some theorize some sort of "Marty ball" syndrome, but it sure seems like we need to get the bulk of our points in the first half then hold on for dear life.

Thoughts?

[color:"white"]When searching for reason, the path has to be built on fact, and your premise that Droughns is a huge problem is anything but a fact, so the discussion is going to be flawed as to why Davidson is doing what he's doing.[/color]

The zone blocking and 3 tight ends sets were just a safe way for Davidson to get out of the Mo playbook and into his own. Now he is mixing things up and applying what he thinks will work better and making adjustments on results.

[color:"white"]Now having said that, I hate having to repeat myself, but Droughns entire running game was developed in the zone blocking schemes of the Bronco's. That is, in fact, why we're running the offense we run. When the line creates the holes or seams, he can run. When they can't, he can't. Droughns simply can't create. He needs the line to give him seams somewhere on the line. That's what the scheme is about. He functions in it because he has enough vision to find the hole, but there has to be one for him to find. That's why the talk that he's not fast enough to hit the hole is off base. In that scheme, the line has to work their zones to create gaps. This isn't the traps and quick hitters of the WCO. Jamaal Lewis ran this scheme to perfection when they had a good line. Since the line has gone to crap, so has Lewis' ability to break loose.

Now as to why it doesn't work in the 2nd half, it's pretty easy. The defense knows what we're doing and works the run first. Make Chuck beat you and don't allow the team to run.

It's not hard to take advantage of our line. They lack power and versatility. [/color]

Please don't confuse me w/ other posters. I'm not a lawyer and rarely have a premise. In fact, our opinions of Droughns are almost identical.
His age is inconsequential to me, since he's had limited time in the role of feature back. I don't think that argument holds water.

Our OL isn't very athletic and Droughs isn't very good w/ zone blocking - I don't think I'd get many arguments on either of those statements. The question is why is Davidson switching back and forth.

It worked against the Jets because they're AWFUL at stopping the run.......something like 28th 0r 29th in the NFL at 143 yards per game. We could have run just about any scheme in the book against them and it would have worked.They're just a below average defensive team.

It didn't work against San Diego or Atlanta because they're not (below average - each giving up less then 100 YPG on the ground.).

It had nothing to do with what Reuben was doing, it had everything to do with what the offense line wasn't.

[color:"white"]Hehe.....I'll hold off on commenting on your belief that he isn't that good in zone-blocking. I think it's possible that you haven't read my second post <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You may also find it surprising to read that I do view his age as an issue. He may not have as much wear and tear as many 28 year old backs, but he won't get any faster as he hits 30, hehe. He also takes more punishment in 6 games than most backs take all year. But that's neither here nor there.

Let me know if you've read my 2nd post and we'll discuss.[/color]

[color:"orange"]Davidson is searching for anything to jump start the running game, because it's vital to our offense...

Whether that's zone blocking or whatever, he understands that the OL has to open holes every run play in order for Droughns to be effective...if the hole is not there Droughns is a dead duck, he's so limited as a back...

Toad,

Our running game is just as important to our passing game and visa versa...

[/color]

Toad -

You're right - I hadn't read it yet. Sorry 'about that.
Reuben rushed for over 1000 yards in both systems. I don't see the point you are trying to make.
I agree on the beating side of things, though. He's getting hammered week in and week out. I still don't think it puts his age on an = playing field, though.

General -

Either I'm really bad as asking questions, or we've got some reading comprehension problems. Maybe a little of both? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Can I just get someone to answer the question of why we are flipping back and forth in blocking schemes.
I don't want this to turn into another Reuben/OL pi$$ing contest.

Yes our OL struggles to block in general. Yes Reuben isn't the fastest back.

Blocking scheme is generally primarily dictated by our offensive personnel - right or wrong? - this was always my belief.
Is there anything that you can think of about a defense that would cause you to switch from one scheme to the other? I don't see where a defense would dictate that.

Davidson takes over (our OL coach) and we're using zone blocking as our primary blocking scheme from week 1. By week 3, our primary blocking scheme reverts away from zone blocking.
Anyone?

No baiting here. I don't have a theory/answer.

You think its that simple, Mav?
I'm w/ you on how critical the run game is, but I though maybe it was part of the game-plan somehow?
Many teams use both blocking schemes to some degree depending on packages/plays, etc - but I've never seen a team switch so blatantly.

Thoughts on the second half struggles?

[color:"white"]Roger that. Just wanted to get past that one issue first.

I really don't have a good guess as to why, other than to go with what Mav touched on, which is to say Davidson may be fishing to try and find a way for the line to at least do something.

The one thing we all agree on is that Droughns can't create. He can run zone schemes and can run north and south, but in both instances, he needs at least a seem. Right now, we're really not able to do that on even a semi-regular basis.

So I think it's nothing more than searching for an identity. Now we can go deeper into the process by suggesting we're trying to setup the defense based on previous designed running plays, or trying to take advantage of something they've seen on film, but those are obvious answers (or maybe they are just in my own mind). [/color]

[color:"orange"]First off...RD Sucks!!! lol <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> that's for Toad <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Seriously...won't go into deep, deep thought on this danglet.

But one thing that might be overlooked...Jets n SD run a 3-4 D Atlanta runs a 4-3
Possibly this might be part of the Answer you are searching for???

JMHO

[color:"orange"]I'm not sure if it's that simple?????
tab touched on the different D's we've seen the last few weeks, maybe that's got something to do with it...I'm not sure?

I think the reason we're puckering up in the 2nd half is due to:
1. Young QB
2. We've lost the field position battle in the second half of the last few games.
3. I think it's RAC and Savage's philosophy...when you get a lead in the 2nd half, run the ball, but we cant do that...

I think Davidson has shown some great patience and commiment to the running game even though we know it's not working. [/color]

eo -
Interesting theory, eo. Hmmm. I'd never correlated those two before.
If that's the case, I'd expect to be zone blocking primarily again this week.
Thanks for the input.


Mav -

Didn't mean the "simple" comment badly - hope it didn't come across that way. Just thinking there was some strategic justification. Often the simple answer is the right one.

On the second half-thing, I think field position was a factor in Atlanta - but that seemed directly related to more conservative play calling. At least it did to me.
Seems like we really struggle on first downs in the second half and even when we do pass, guys aren't as open. Don't know.

One advantage here is that he's probably the best person to know why a running play didn't work and probably what the best alternative would be.

Kudos also to whoever decided to get the silent snap count in before the Atlanta game. We'd have been in trouble in the dome w/o it.

Sometimes I have a hard time settling for the "easy" answer, but that might just be it - he's trying to figure things out. Don't think that's far fetched.

We disagree a little on this. I think I'm on an island here, but I thought the zone blocking was pretty decent against San Diego. There was a lot of cut-back opportunities that Reuben just couldn't get to. His vision is what makes him "zone-enabled", but his speed (or lack there of is what keeps him from maximizing that scheme.


Has anyone ever heard of the blocking scheme being called at the line? Can they decide whether to zone block or pull once they get to the LOS? I'm assuming that's not the case, but I'm honestly not sure.
I could see that w/ a two back set - just send the full-back where he needs to be, but I can't see how that would work in a single-back set.

These offenses are so flippin' complicated. What happened to the days when the head coach just called plays "from the hip" or the QB drew the play in the dirt inside the huddle? No analysis. No chess-match - just mano-y-mano.

Ahhh. Those were the days.... <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Regarding

1) .. comparing the San Diego run D versus the Jets should be self explanatory.

2).. it may not be Martyball, but we have seen Romeo trust the D in the 4th quarter for wins over the Jets and Falcons.

I think Davidson is trying to find a combination that fits the players skills rather than dictating an offensive scheme based upon a static playbook. Mo needed the first half to determine which plays would work, and other teams are adjusting to Davidson based upon what they see.

Doesn't Denver use zone blocking as well? <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I think we need a new RB <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

They also have a reputation for a phenomenal, athletic line.

Danglet, Davidson is probably trying out different stuff depending on the D we are facing. These are things that, had he been the OC during Camp, we would have probably done in preseason. But more so!

I think he's tweaking the O on the fly. Adding things during the week but still keeping the basic premise of the O that Mo installed.

If you go back and listen to his interview on the main site, your gonna see that's exactly what he said he would gonna do. (I'm paraphrasing of course)

Here's the thing, regardless of whether or not you or I understand or like what he's doing, we are 2-1 with him running the O....