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If it wasn't for bad luck he wouldn't have any luck at all. Obama resigns from controversial church Posted: 06:22 PM ET Sen. Obama resigned from his controversial church, according to his campaign. Sen. Obama resigned from his controversial church, according to his campaign. (CNN) — Barack Obama resigned Saturday from his Chicago church — where controversial sermons by his former pastor and other ministers had created repeated political headaches for the frontrunner for the Democratic presidential nomination — his campaign confirmed. The resignation comes days after the Rev. Michael Pfleger, a visiting Catholic priest, mocked Obama's Democratic rival, Sen. Hillary Clinton, for crying in New Hampshire during the runup to the primary there. Previously, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright — former pastor at Trinity United Church of Christ and Obama's minister for about 20 years — drew unwanted attention for the campaign when videos of several of his fiery sermons surfaced. In them, Wright suggested the U.S. government may be responsible for the spread of AIDS in the black community and equated some American wartime activities to terrorism. Obama has said he was not present for the controversial sermons by Wright or Pfleger and had condemned both — most recently saying he was "deeply disappointed" by Pfleger's "divisive, backward-looking rhetoric." Link
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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All Pro
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LOL  I love the title!
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I'm confused,, did Obama endorse this preacher,, did he agree with him..
or did he say,, I dont' agree and distance himself..
I think the latter is true,, so why is it Obama Drama? Sounds as if he has nothing to do with these people and doesn't agree with thier thinking..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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He didn't distance himself from Wright for 20 years and even defended him. Then when he saw the political backlash he distanced himself a week after saying he could never do so to Wright. There are a myrial of character issues in this for Obama.
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Please. Can somebody please explain something to me... The Wright story, this, the guns comment all stay in the media cycle so much longer than the Bosnia situation, the assassination comment, Geraldine Ferraro's comments, etc. Why is that? For that matter, every time the Clinton campaign moves the goalposts the media just accepts it. Its not the states that matter, its the delegates. Oh wait, no, its the states. No, its the popular vote. But, don't count caucus votes. Michigan and Florida shouldn't count, but I stand for counting every vote. Where has this been called out in the media?
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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You aren't seriously suggesting that the media has been unfair to Obama are you? This man has been treated with kid gloves the entire campaign.
I guess the delegats situation, which I have heard talked about quite a bit for months in the media, is what the media considers normal political moves. That's just an opinion.
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I'm not saying that they've necessarily been unfair to Obama, but I wonder why it is that the Clinton campaign consistently gets to set the goalposts and keeps these stories alive much longer...
Seriously, I thought the assassination comment was something just short of the wooden stake and it didn't make it through Memorial Day weekend. Now, this story is gaining some legs when its a sermon he wasn't even at, with a pastor who was visiting from a different church. This minister has even been arguing with Obama over his treatment of Wright, so its not quite fair to say that he was close, although he was a donor to Obama's Senate campaign.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Sorry, I dsiagree. The assassination comment, when taken in the context it was given, was a NONstory that should have gotten NO press. The press it got, IMO, was nothing more than sensationalism.
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I called it Obama drama, cause this is the achilles heel in his campaign...religion. It's the only story that seems to stick to him. I thought this thing was crazy being that he wasn't at the church when this sermon was given.
I'm curious though, is this different because this preacher...I'm sorry PRIEST, was white? Will there be the same kind of backlash against him as there was against Jeremiah Wright.
Just to point out our Cleveland connection to this story...The new presiding pastor of the now notorious Trinity is none other than Otis Moss III, son of Otis Moss, I believe now heads the NAACP...who was the founding pastor (I believe) of Olivet Baptist Church in Cleveland...one of the largest black churches in the city. Just a little Cliff Claven moment for ya!
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Actually, the religious aspect, IMO, doesn't matter. It's that the man he considered a mentor for 20 years spewed (IMO) racist remarks. Obama defended him until he realized the damage poltically it was causing him.
Obama may not have been there for THAT sermon, but you have attended church the same as I have and this more than likely wasn't the only time Wright went off the deep end.
As for the priest getting treated differently. He will, IMO, but not because he's white....but because he ridiculed Clinton for crying. He wasn't spouting rhetoric that was racist (IMO). So it's comparing apples to oranges to me.
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You must not have heard the whole story then.
He made some racial remarks...which I'm sure many will classify as racist.
Basically, the comment that I saw was how can white people have the audacity to ask black people to forget about the history of oppression they've received. That's like asking a woman who's been raped over and over to forget about it...He then said let's got the the sick SOB that did the raping and make him pay. Remember, this is a white guy that said this...I'm curious to know how some of my Caucasian brethren feel about that.
As far as Jeremiah Wright, we'll never see eye to eye on that one Coach, so no point in going there.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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He didn't distance himself from Wright for 20 years and even defended him.
I'm pretty sure that he regrets that... but even if he doesn't, He's not the only candidate running for president that has done some things that don't sit well with the american people..
As for me, I'm not worrying to much about Obama or Hillary at the moment.. I'll start worrying about it once it's determined who is running against McCain.
I'm so sick of the whole Hillary vs Obama thing at this point..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I didn't see that comment, but I don't consider it racist. I do, however, think it's a pretty poor analogy. IMO, he is comparing something that happens to a woman now to something that happened centuries ago. A better analogy, IMO, would have been to say that it would be like asking the descendants of a woman raped centuries ago to let it go.
I'm not advocating that slavery should be forgotten. However, IMO, it is used too much as an excuse by SOME. I think that we have to move on from it, I just don't have the answer as to how.
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I didn't see that comment, but I don't consider it racist. I do, however, think it's a pretty poor analogy. IMO, he is comparing something that happens to a woman now to something that happened centuries ago. A better analogy, IMO, would have been to say that it would be like asking the descendants of a woman raped centuries ago to let it go.
I'm not advocating that slavery should be forgotten. However, IMO, it is used too much as an excuse by SOME. I think that we have to move on from it, I just don't have the answer as to how.
The problem with your train of thought, is that oppression lasted way after slavery. That has been my whole argument when this discussion is brought up. Jim Crow ended 40 years ago. Jim Crow was oppression. Segregation was oppression.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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That wasn't slavery. There is a difference, though it's semantics and degrees. Still, 40 years ago. We have come a long way in that 40 years and if we continue to work, will continue to do so. That's my point. At some point, according to psychologists, forgiveness has to take place for the sake of the fogiver moreso than the one being forgiven. Until a person does, the person that harmed them will always have control over you.
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I'm curious to know how some of my Caucasian brethren feel about that.
Are you sure? 
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.) ![[Linked Image from i87.photobucket.com]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/brownsfan4173/NFL-Football.jpg)
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The problem with your train of thought, is that oppression lasted way after slavery. That has been my whole argument when this discussion is brought up. Jim Crow ended 40 years ago. Jim Crow was oppression. Segregation was oppression.
And yet, Martin Luther King's vision for a "man to be judged by the content of his character, not by the color of his skin" doesn't apply today. Everything coming from black leaders is completely about the color of one's skin and the content of the character of the person. Today, the black community is self-segregating itself and the divisive statements that it's leaders spew forth are only fostering resentment along racial lines, not diminishing it.
Being a black man, maybe you don't understand the resentment that other in this country are beginning to feel and that statements such as those put forth by the most pious Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Jeremiah Wright and others are adding to the animosity.
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That wasn't slavery. There is a difference, though it's semantics and degrees. Still, 40 years ago. We have come a long way in that 40 years and if we continue to work, will continue to do so. That's my point. At some point, according to psychologists, forgiveness has to take place for the sake of the fogiver moreso than the one being forgiven. Until a person does, the person that harmed them will always have control over you.
In 40yrs. we have come a long way indeed. I see many black doctors in hospitals, I see black lawyers. When you turn on the TV you see black news anchors, and black movie stars and actors. I've had black professors in college. There are many black politicians. Obama would not be in his current position if not for the white vote. There are many wonderful success stories of those born poor, both black and white, and through hard work and determination made something of themselves. This is the land of opportunity, and I firmly believe that anyone who wants to make it, can.
After witnessing all the progress that has taken place, it is still troubling because you have a segment of the population who act as though the chains of slavery were removed just last week. Those that promote this type of thinking are men like Jackson, Sharpton and Wright, who continue to spew the "we are victims" mentality by trying to seek out racism in every nook and cranny. Remember, those men are in the "racism" business, and without racism, they're out of business.
Michelle Obama, when asked if she worried about assasination attempts on her husband, replied that she can't worry about that because being a black man, he could get shot by just going to a gas station. That is so wrong and absurd. Just watch those crime shows and you'll see who does most of the shooting at those 24hr gas stations.
I would never vote for Obama, not because he's black, but because I oppose his socialistic leftitst views and policies. His wife is even more scarier with some of her comments.
I don't believe most black people are voting for Obama because he's black either. Anyone remember Alan Keys? He was a Republican, a black man who ran for president back in 2000. Not much black support for him.
I would have voted for him in a heartbeat though.
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I'm curious to know how some of my Caucasian brethren feel about that.
Are you sure?
I wouldn't have asked...but then again, I don't consider you my brethren, but feel free to respond.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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The problem with your train of thought, is that oppression lasted way after slavery. That has been my whole argument when this discussion is brought up. Jim Crow ended 40 years ago. Jim Crow was oppression. Segregation was oppression.
And yet, Martin Luther King's vision for a "man to be judged by the content of his character, not by the color of his skin" doesn't apply today. Everything coming from black leaders is completely about the color of one's skin and the content of the character of the person. Today, the black community is self-segregating itself and the divisive statements that it's leaders spew forth are only fostering resentment along racial lines, not diminishing it.
Being a black man, maybe you don't understand the resentment that other in this country are beginning to feel and that statements such as those put forth by the most pious Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Jeremiah Wright and others are adding to the animosity.
What exactly is being said?
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I'm not saying that they've necessarily been unfair to Obama, but I wonder why it is that the Clinton campaign consistently gets to set the goalposts and keeps these stories alive much longer...
You answered your own question. It keeps the story alive. The press is eating this up.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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What exactly is being said?
Do I even need to point this out? Really?!
Al Sharpton is about as divisive as they come.
Crown Heights Riots
Tawana Brawley
Duke University Lacrosse players
Jesse Jackson has repeatedly used epithets against Jews, including calling them Hymies. I guess it's alright for him (sure, he took criticism, but he didn't lose his job) to make such remarks but not alright for Don Imus (a shock jock radio personality) to make similar remarks? Anybody with a lick of sense knows that Imus isn't a racist.
I gather that we can all recall Jeremiah Wright's comments rather well.
I really don't even think I need to go into those of Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam.
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You told me that I can't understand because I'm a black man...so help me understand. I ask, and you tell me I should already know.
Please bear in mind, that these individuals do not speak for all black people. I believe we are past the point of NEEDING "Black Leaders" That was something necessary for the civil rights movement. It's outdated at this point, because of the progress that has been made.
As far as Imus...I don't know him personally, and have never listened to his show, so I can't say he's not racist, nor can I say that he is. I didn't think he should've lost his job for that comment, nor can all black people be held responsible for the protests of Al Sharpton. His comment was a bit insensitive, but I'm never for ridiculing college athletes, regardless of race or gender. I remember the backlash that poor tight end at OSU faced when he dropped that touchdown. They're just kids and should not be held under the spotlight of the pros...but that's a different subject altogether.
The great thing about people is that we're not all the same. My biggest beef has always been economics, rarely has it been based purely on race. A lot of black people fall victim to the race card. But when you experience some of the things that black people do in the professional world, most of it doesn't make sense, so you fall back to race, considering the history of this country.
As far as the hatred toward Jews, forgive me if I don't cry a river, but growing up in Cleveland Heights in the 80's and early 90's, I've had more than my share of racism towards blacks by Jews. But I guess 2 wrongs don't make a right, but sometimes it gets you even.
I hated that Duke situation, I felt there was way too much of a rush to judgement in that case.
You have to understand one thing, that we all need to adjust the progress made. When you're used to experiencing something for so long and it starts to fade, you mentally still experience. It's like a person losing a limb, but still feeling the nerve endings. Or like an elephant that is chained down for so long, when you finally unchain him, he won't move, because he still thinks he's chained down. So when injustices happen to black people, the first thing to come to mind is history. We have to get past that, I'll be the first to admit. But you all need to understand that as well. I think some of the more recent events are teaching us that. Especially the Duke thing, the Golf Network comment about Tiger, and the Lebron James picture. Those events were more about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson than a "black protest"
Make no mistake that there is still some very hard feelings about race in this country. We need to be able to get these issues on the table. The way I see it, white people feel they're being indicted without any justification. Black people feel that no matter what we say, white people will just brush it off or excuse it, accuse us of playing the race card. Truthfully, that card is played on BOTH sides.
So, let the conversation begin. I don't think what's said here will change the world, but it can change this board, and that's a start.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Anybody with a lick of sense knows that Imus isn't a racist.
I used to work at NBC, and it's pretty common to hear the accusation that the guy has a great deal of racial issues. This goes way back to the 1980's. I never thought his recent flap was all that big of a deal, but the guy has a long tail at the end of his kite when it comes to racism.
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We need to be able to get these issues on the table. The way I see it, white people feel they're being indicted without any justification. Black people feel that no matter what we say, white people will just brush it off or excuse it, accuse us of playing the race card. Truthfully, that card is played on BOTH sides.
I find a lot of what you have to say on this issue informative and well thought out. But I think our issues as a people go well beyond any particular race. We have done some growing in the past 140 years, more in the past 40 years, much has to do with attitudes and growth within the US. I don't think it can be denied that this country has held the premiere leadership role in the areas of civil rights and equality. (That's one of the reasons the current erosion of our civil and our current treatment of political prisoners makes me so angry but that's another story.) Much has to do with philosophies that have entered into the cosmic conscious stream and become accepted as truths. But there is still a long, long way to go. How long that takes is up to us.
Personally, I feel we will continue to keep tripping over our own best and worst intentions until the realization is finally reached that we are one. We all occupy this space. We all live here. We all come from the same DNA and I believe it is currently being mapped that we all come from the same mother, from the same tribe, before man began spreading over the globe. We all have the same wants and needs. We all share the same connection to each other and to everything. Until we can get beyond the man made, self-imposed restrictions and divisive devices like race, religion, borders, flags, appearance and wealth, we will continue to hate, ridicule, hurt and kill for reasons designed and defined by our own idiocy and immaturity. Until we realize we all share the responsibility to and for the good of each other, we will continue to flounder on the sea of small-minded secular self-interests.
It is these self-imposed shortcomings that divide us on leadership and allows political candidates and some so-called social and religious leaders to thrive and prosper based on our fear of difference. It's a classic case of smoke and mirrors and we're all too self absorbed to look behind the curtain. It's time that as a people, we all grew the hell up, IMO.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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You told me that I can't understand because I'm a black man...so help me understand. I ask, and you tell me I should already know.
Actually, what I wrote was:
Being a black man, maybe you don't understand the resentment that other in this country are beginning to feel and that statements such as those put forth by the most pious Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Jeremiah Wright and others are adding to the animosity.
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Please bear in mind, that these individuals do not speak for all black people. I believe we are past the point of NEEDING "Black Leaders" That was something necessary for the civil rights movement. It's outdated at this point, because of the progress that has been made.
Indeed, I know that they don't speak for all black people. They do, however, claim to speak for almost all black people (except for those that are referred to as "Uncle Toms") and they have a great deal of followers to their ideals.
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As far as Imus...I don't know him personally, and have never listened to his show, so I can't say he's not racist, nor can I say that he is. I didn't think he should've lost his job for that comment, nor can all black people be held responsible for the protests of Al Sharpton.
I have listened to him from time to time, though not regularly. He does a great deal of charity for children facing severe medical hardships at his ranch in New Mexico. I've never heard him say things that were racist. He certainly has said things to get some shock value from his words, but never anything racist.
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The great thing about people is that we're not all the same. My biggest beef has always been economics, rarely has it been based purely on race. A lot of black people fall victim to the race card. But when you experience some of the things that black people do in the professional world, most of it doesn't make sense, so you fall back to race, considering the history of this country.
It certainly cannot be argued against that economic disparity between the races has caused friction. It really cannot be argued either that one's skill level or work ethic has an effect on one's economic status.
Like it or not, perception is reality. The perception that some white people have is that the average black youth is one of someone wearing their baggy pants hanging halfway down their ass, is an unwed father wearing gang colors, probably armed with some sort of weapon, and showing some sort of outrageous bling. I'm not saying that it's right, but that is one perception.
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As far as the hatred toward Jews, forgive me if I don't cry a river, but growing up in Cleveland Heights in the 80's and early 90's, I've had more than my share of racism towards blacks by Jews. But I guess 2 wrongs don't make a right, but sometimes it gets you even.
I'm not here to defend racism by Jews against blacks. Jews don't have the self-proclaimed leaders who claim to speak for them. It's these black leaders who are the divisive figures. What's worse, they profit from doing it.
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I hated that Duke situation, I felt there was way too much of a rush to judgment in that case.
I'm glad to hear it, but Sharpton still has yet to apologize to those kids, their families, the University or anyone else.
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You have to understand one thing, that we all need to adjust the progress made. When you're used to experiencing something for so long and it starts to fade, you mentally still experience. So when injustices happen to black people, the first thing to come to mind is history. We have to get past that, I'll be the first to admit.
Now, if you can get the self-proclaimed black leaders like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, etc. to admit that, it would go a long way towards easing racial tensions. Of course, you will have whackos like the Ku Klux Klan, the Aryan Nation, the Nazis, etc. but they don't claim to speak for all whites. In fact, all of them are anti-Semites, and most Jews would be considered "white". They are anti-Catholic and anti-Orthodoxy also. They are primarily white Protestant organizations. But, like I said, they don't claim to speak for the majority of whites.
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But you all need to understand that as well.
I don't understand it at all. I have never had any slaves. Nobody in my family ever had a slave. Why should I have to come to some understanding about slavery?
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I think some of the more recent events are teaching us that. Especially the Duke thing, the Golf Network comment about Tiger, and the Lebron James picture. Those events were more about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson than a "black protest"
Indeed. This goes to my point that these figures are divisive. Unfortunately the black community, at large, cannot (or will not) soundly send these charlatans away. Instead, they put a podium in front of them or hand them a bullhorn.
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Make no mistake that there is still some very hard feelings about race in this country. We need to be able to get these issues on the table.
There are far fewer issues to be tabled than you suggest. We just have some who scream about something to make an issue out of it.
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The way I see it, white people feel they're being indicted without any justification.
That's a good starting point for you personally. Now, get the charlatans to say the same thing publicly. You can't because it doesn't benefit the so-called black leaders. They promote division and profit from it.
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Black people feel that no matter what we say, white people will just brush it off or excuse it, accuse us of playing the race card.
You don't think that white people are right to brush it off? White people aren't responsible for the plight of blacks in America in today's society. Blacks have nobody to blame for their plight. Large parts of the black community follow these or other leaders who's only goal is to exploit the black community for their own gain. Either they can't see it, don't want to admit it, or are so connected to them for what valid gripe they might have, that they won't get rid of them.
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Truthfully, that card is played on BOTH sides.
Exactly what do you mean by this? I'm curious. Being white, I don't see what you're trying to say with this.
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So, let the conversation begin. I don't think what's said here will change the world, but it can change this board, and that's a start.
Truth. I would always give the most qualified candidate willing to work for my company at the compensation offered the job. I asked the owner of the company that I work for to allow me to help in the process for finding my replacement should I ever leave for "greener pastures".
The two previous occupants of my position were never technically trained for the job. I am an engineer, of sorts, who does all the CAD work and design for my company. While they were both engineers, neither had a background in the field. They were essentially overpaid draftsmen.
If I were to leave and the best candidate for my position was a black, a female, or a black female and I was asked for my opinion, I would recommend that person for the job.
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Wow, one of the BEST posts you have ever made. Great job, I agree with almost all you said. I will only add a couple things. I'm not sure how to change what you alluded to about how white people feel that they are blamed for everything (paraphrasing) and that the blacks fall back on race because of the past. There must be some way to get past that and until it does, there will continue to be division. I understand that you were the victim of racism by jews. I also know that you are very well read on the history of the Civil Rights movement. I just wanted to remind you that many of those involved in that movement that aided the black community (for lack of a better term) were Jews. Many Jewish people were out there fighting for change for the blacks in the country. I'm not sure how they went from being so involved to being so divded. The only thing I can think of, and it is just thinking out lout, is that the Muslim influence and thei general disdain for Jews in that religion aided in it. Those that adopted the Muslim religion may have started the divisiveness and it just spread. Again I am not saying it happened, just wondering if that MAY be what happened. Great job of bringing a very good post to discuss the issues. It's great to see that you, me, and others are really talking about things and not just putting the defenses up and then lashing out.  It's becoming clearer with each post that we aren't far off in many views and are striving for the same things.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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Not saying I necessarily agree with this but I have heard it said that Jews that were involved in the civil rights movement were only involved because they were exploiting the black community, expecially in the music industry.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Poser
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Poser
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Yes, I have heard that, too. However, I'm not just talking about a few Jewish businessmen. I'm talking about in the streets, at voter registration drives, etrc. that were just ordinary people working for a cause.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
He does a great deal of charity for children facing severe medical hardships at his ranch in New Mexico.
I hate things like this...I"m not even talking about Imus here.
I think when we use the word 'racist' or 'racism', one tends to think of some seething bigot. And while there are plenty of seething bigots, that's not where the real problem lies. The problem lies with generally good, honest, moral people who are products in the mechanism.
Take slaveowners...there were plenty of slaveowners who were very kind people. There were even slaveowners who were very kind to their slaves (as kind as one can be). There were a lot of slaveowners that could be described as intelligent, compassionate, benevolent, Founding Fathers, etc.
So to brush things off by saying 'oh, well he's a good person, he can't be a racist'...well, it makes no sense. Most of the racism perpetuated in America is carried out by good people with good intentions. It's not just a bunch of guys in KKK robes.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,306 |
Quote:
Basically, the comment that I saw was how can white people have the audacity to ask black people to forget about the history of oppression they've received.
I have a question bud. Why do you feel the need to use the terms "white people" and "black people" ?
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
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The Wright story, this, the guns comment all stay in the media cycle so much longer than the Bosnia situation, the assassination comment, Geraldine Ferraro's comments, etc. Why is that?
Because the Clinton's are masters of manipulating the media and making the story be about what they want it to be about....
I'm actually starting to feel sorry for Obama, all of this stuff is happening which is outside of his control and he's taking the grief for it.. I'm not saying the degree to which he is associated with these people shouldn't be discussed but I don't believe he is getting fair treatment in all of this.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790 |
Quote:
Black people
I thought you wanted us to call them African American?
#gmstrong
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,603 |
Not to go off topic but all of my friends in both Cleveland and Orlando who were black hated the word African American. They were happy to know their roots but just like any other person who defected to the USA, they were proud to say they were American and felt that the African part in that term segregated themselves a bit. They all felt that if we want to eliminate racism, they need to stop segregating themselves as well. We are all Americans and and thus, they felt that black was the best term to use.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Just some random thoughts here:
As was mentioned, not all slave owners were "slave drivers". There have been several examples of slave owners in the past who were kind to their slaves.
Anyone brushed up on slavery should also know that there have been instances of Free Blacks owning slaves as well as some Native Americans. Now some of these purchased them to protect them but also some of these purchased them for the labor just like any other slave owner.
There was also a ship with the name involving a Lion...not sure exactly on the name and too busy to look it up. Anyways, it is believed that the first slaves in America were captured on this Spanish ship that was headed for somewhere in South America I believe. I can't remember the exact details but it was something along those lines.
Indentured Servants is another point of interest: Irish, Germans, and even English were brought in as a labor force. Most of those free blacks were free because of the regulations of Indentured Servants that were used. In fact, Anthony Johnson is a name that comes to mind. He was a freed Indentured Servant who was in fact black and was a slave owner. In fact, the first "slave" in America was held by a black man...non other than Mr. Anthony Johnson himself. The court ruled against the slave and declared him Mr. Johnson's "property" for life. It was Mr. Johnson who fought for this and won it. Pretty ironic that slavery was started by a black man...but at the same time, pretty iconic of "The American Dream". It was pretty rare, no matter if you were black or white, for a freed Indentured Servant to be successful. But Mr. Johnson found himself owning a LOT of land and beat the odds.
Also, many of the slaves were captured by Blacks in America who turned them over to English for trade or money.
Now, I have absolutely no problem in blacks complaining about the mistreatment they have received over they years, after all, it is justified. But just the same, slavery has been an issue for just about every race dating way back to the ancient Romans, possibly even earlier. I personally have always found it ironic that technically, a black man started "slavery" in the United States which was a shift from Indentured Servitude which included almost every race including Whites. This method was often used as means to pay for their Migration to the United Sates for those who couldn't afford it. To blame racism over the years and reference slavery are two different things in my mind.
Now obviously not all slave owner's were like that, however you can't pick out a sample of people and blame them. There were harsh black slave owners just like there were harsh white slave owners. I was very fortunate to have an AMAZING American History teacher in college. No book was required because in reality, history is just interpretation and conjecture. What he did was cover every major moment in American history starting with slavery and ending with the Atomic Bomb (which is when we ran out of time). He sat down and read us accounts from every viewpoint he could find. As we often hear, there are two sides to every story and he made it a point for us to hear everyone's story. He presented us the facts from each angle and let us come to our own conclusions. Between him, his wife, and his brother, they pretty much had every language covered so thats how he was able to pull out accounts from other countries documents on the events.
So, while the vast majority of of the harsh slave owners were in fact white, I do not believe that the whites should be held solely accountable for slavery. What I do believe to be true is the racism against the blacks by whites over the years which was in fact a direct result coming out of racism in which there is no excuse. But just as you had mentioned, you cannot hold an entire race responsible for the actions by some. For instance, if one were to look back on my family history, you would find an entire history of caring people who did everything they could to help. The history dates back to Germany pre-Naziism. The family then left Germany for Poland and helped many Jews and Blacks escape Hitler. After some of the family moved to America, the beliefs followed and tried to do everything they could to help stop racism.
If we are ever hope to totally eliminate racism, we must all realize that we can't change the past. The same that can be said now can be said for the past. Every race has it's good people and it's bad people. But the actions and beliefs of some do not reflect the actions and beliefs of all. We must come to terms and accept this statement if we ever want to move on.
![[Linked Image from img.photobucket.com]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Concor1033/NEWDTsig.jpg)
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Dawg Talker
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OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283 |
Quote:
Quote:
Black people
I thought you wanted us to call them African American?
I can't speak for all black people. I prefer to be called African American...that's what the discussion was always about. I'm not black, I'm brown. And as far as I know, there's no country called black.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Dawg Talker
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OP
Dawg Talker
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The discussion at hand hinges on more than just slavery. I don't know how many times I have to say it.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
all of my friends in both Cleveland and Orlando who were black
What are they now?
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283
Dawg Talker
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OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283 |
Quote:
Quote:
Basically, the comment that I saw was how can white people have the audacity to ask black people to forget about the history of oppression they've received.
I have a question bud. Why do you feel the need to use the terms "white people" and "black people" ?
For the sake of discussion...since we are talking about race. Would you prefer Negroid and Caucasion...does that suit you better...bud! 
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Raven
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Raven
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,691 |
You hit it out of the park on this one Ndutyme, It's a good post man and true to the point.... We need to come together as a NATION of people known as Americans! I want to be known for the country that I live in (USA) or the state that I am a resident of (Maryland) not as either Black or an African American. 
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