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Harrison's main setback has been his lack of picking up blitzes and getting people exposed to hits..once he does that he'll be o.k..thats why he isn't on ST's..lack of blocking.
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In the end, I would rather have quick over fast.
Quick and shifty is what gets you the first 10 yards more often than not.
To be honest, I don't care much if the backs on my team get pulled down from behind 20-30 yards down field.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Totally agree. Quick and shifty is better than fast.
But.....
It's great to have that next gear like Lewis had, and still has from time to time. When you can go the distance on any run it really adds a dimension to your team. That's why you're the 5th overall pick instead of a 5th rounder.
I'm a move the chains guy...and that's what quick and elusive gets you. But if you want points and yards in bunches there's no substitute for speed.
A lot of people overestimate what Harrison brings to the table and that's why I've made the point about his lack of top end speed.
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Harrison is a between the tackles kinda back he is shift but he did most of his running between the takcles.
I think you might be underestimating his abilities.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Man I can't remember where I heard it now.. not even sure it was a credible source.. But some artical I read was comparing him to Willie Parker because of his shiftyness and Speed..
Personally, I have no idea if that's accurate
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Why we haven't seen more of JH is why he went in the 5th round... His size, blocking capabilities, limited ST time and he got nicked and put the ball on the ground some... That and he has a possible Hof'er starting in front of him... I was fortunate enough to get to see him play in the Pac Ten living where I live... He carried the load @ WSU for two years... Mostly ran it, caught it some, very effectively but didn't block much, scheme and was too valueable to do ST's... He can go inside or outside... He can grind or get chunks small or large... He knows how to score too... I think hes scored 30 or so TD's @ WSU and over 20 @ Pasadena JC... His nickname in college was the Ghost... For how he would disappear and then bust big gainers... He can flat out run... CB's in the NFL may catch him but he is not going to get run down by anyone else... Jh has very good balance, vision and nearly always seems to be going forward... If he could stay around a real 210lbs. that would be a solid wieght to maintain his skill set and be heavy enough to take a pounding... I think he is only 5-9... I do want to see JH get some work behind our 0-line...   If there was a way to get him 8-10 touches a game that would be sick for all involved... JMO's
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Quote:
Man I can't remember where I heard it now.. not even sure it was a credible source.. But some artical I read was comparing him to Willie Parker because of his shiftyness and Speed..
Personally, I have no idea if that's accurate
They play the same type ball... but Parker is a lot faster...
I would really like to see some Shotgun - 2RB sets with Lewis and Harrison...
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Quote:
Why we haven't seen more of JH is why he went in the 5th round...
Ummm... What round was Willie Parker DRAFTED?? 
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Sure, I want it all too. My reply wasn't a effort to diminish your point in any way....I am just expressing a opinion. OJ Simpson had the quick and elusiveness with that extra kick when needed...that kid from Minnesota seems to have that as well...you bet...I will take one of them. 
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OJ Simpson had the quick and elusiveness with that extra kick when needed
Especially when being carried by a Ford Bronco.
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I remember WP being a free agent... Could be wrong though... Different players in different systems... In college and pros... So...? And again for all you reposters... Repost the entire quote or statement... 
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Parker was an undrafted free agent I believe. Yup, I'm right, copied this from the Steelers site on Parker Quote:
2004 (8-0/0-0): Made the final 53-man roster in 2004 as a rookie free agent…led the team in rushing during the preseason with 202 rushing yards on 46 carries (4.4 avg.)…scored two TDs…
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Quote:
I remember WP being a free agent... Could be wrong though...
Different players in different systems... In college and pros... So...?
And again for all you reposters... Repost the entire quote or statement...
like this?
takes up too much space...
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Quote:
And again for all you reposters... Repost the entire quote or statement...
Quote:
takes up too much space...
You don't have to quote the other guy's the entire post. Just that part of it that you are responding to.
It lets everyone know exactly what it is you are addressing. That way your post makes sense. Otherwise we have to scroll back to see what prior statement prompted the response.
Two of the best features of this board is that you always know who a poster is talking to, and by using the quote feature you always know what they talking about...even if they themselves don't.
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The feature has benefit and merit if used properly/correctly. If anyone is going to repost, they should repost all of the quote... Not just a portion of the quote, excluding parts of it... It is not necessary to requote the entire post or reply... IMO, I see very few people here that don't know who they are responding too and what they are responding about. To each there won...
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I think Jerome's blocking abilities have greatly improved, though you'd need to see him do it more to prove it outright. I would question his effectiveness as a #1 mainly from a durability over 16 weeks kind of thing, could he take the pounding of 20-25 carries/game all season long. I fully expect Savage to draft an excellent RB within the next two-three years, and could possibly do it as soon as next year, leaving someone out in the cold. I love Wright, I think he'll have a good year, but at the end of the day he'll probably be the odd man out.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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As always Eo, well thought out post on your part.
My thoughts, kind of plays off another post I made, here goes..
I think the roll of JH will increase this season, if my guess is right will run the ball much more this season.
Last year with no defense to speak of we were a wide open offense, this year with a improved defense I think will be a much more run run run type offense. Will lean on the run and the defense more and take our shots down the field from time to time to keep the defense honest, but we won't really on the over the top stuff as much.
With a increasse in the overall number of running plays will need a more explosive change of pace back then JW. Love JW on 3rd down and long but 3rd and short will be JH time this season, or at least I think so. Not only that with the additional running plays I think will go too this year will need JH to help keep JL fresh.
In total I think JH will be a huge weapon for the Browns this year, and for sure I think this should be his time finally. I believe he is going to really have a break out season, if all goes well with the defense. Kind of strange but the number of touches I think JH gets this year will be according to how well our defense holds up..
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Possibly that could be true although I don't know how much of the passing game we will give up on as it was a deadly game last year. And for the most part they didn't have 8 in the box. But you could be correct with the big time teams we are playing and big time offenses...ie Dallas and Colts especially if they continue to try to take away the deeper routes and have 7 in the box...we will run, run, run.
And giving Lewis a breather run Jerome. But we have continued to ask Jerome to win a spot on Special Teams - does this mean if he cannot will he be the guy put on the inactive list for games? That would mean Wright and maybe Cribbs would be the breather RBs. He can't get those reps if he is inactive.
Cal Dawg: "I think Jerome's blocking abilities have greatly improved"
 Where, When and How??? If you are talking about his play last year when he got in...you are wrong. If you are talking about in shorts in our mini camps...how can you evaluate that? I just don't understand that statement one bit. We can "HOPE" that his blocking abilities have greatly improved...but to state it as fact is just fantasy.
JMHO
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Quote:
But we have continued to ask Jerome to win a spot on Special Teams - does this mean if he cannot will he be the guy put on the inactive list for games?
That is a point I would like to address as it made me wonder a bit when RAC mentioned it last week.
Sure...it would be wonderful if the kid played well on special teams, but if he doesn't for whatever reason, it seems foolish to shoot yourself in the foot and keep him inactive if he CAN help you in the running game.
Surely RAC can find 11 special team players and keep Harrison active for games.
That is one of the reasons RAC irritates me sometimes. It is almost like he can't see the forest because of the trees.
If Harrison can provide something at the running back slot, he needs to be there for crying out loud.
Now, if he can't, and he can't play special teams, we just need to cut him. Why are we even keeping him??
Last edited by Ballpeen; 06/22/08 10:34 AM.
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"Surely RAC can find 11 special team players and keep Harrison active for games. That is one of the reasons RAC irritates me sometimes."
Don't blame RAC Peen blame the rules committee. 53 is low enough on a roster but then take 8 away...you are talking about starters and one back up plus Kicker, Punter and long snapper...thats 47 2 over the 45 allowed to be active.
How possibly can having your 3rd string RB being asked to prove himself on special teams to become one of the 45 be irritating? We are talking about 5 to 10 reps max and that 10 would be in blow out situations. Wright could easily take those breather reps - if you note. Not only does he win our #2 RB spot but he also has a place on Special Teams. Heck even AP played on special teams! We are asking our 3rd string RB a 5th round pick to earn his NFL stripes and contribute.
You are darn right the 3rd string RB needs to excel on Special Teams. If not then he must wait for Injury to be a factor to become active. Its just the way the game is with just 45 players. Special Teams is a very integral part of winning in the NFL if you have a choice of keeping Friedman active or Harrison (Friedman will not see the light of day in a game unless there are multiple Interior OL injuries) Friedman will be active cause he an OLman who has good quickness and a big role on our special teams.
The coaches would love to have Harrison active every game but the luxury simply isn't there. You might think its easy but it is not and RAC pushing Harrison is fact that he wishes him to win a spot.
JMHO
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All well and good.
I still think Harrison could be activated and still find ST players.
Harrison will always be a 3rd stringer as long as RAC never plays him.
JMO.
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I have to agree with Eo. There are just not enough active roster spots. Even our #2 back Wright, plays special on teams. We have tried to play him on special teams before, and I guess he wasn't quite good enough because we don't always use him. I think he is a very dynamic runner, and hope he can add something else so he gets playing time.
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"Harrison will always be a 3rd stringer as long as RAC never plays him."
You got that a little backwards...blaming RAC. Actually Harrison will always be a 3rd stringer as long as he doesn't improve on his deficiencies. It has nothing to do with RAC except for the fact that he demands improvements from his players. Them who improve survive and lavish in our systems. Them who don't will find themselves the definition of Not For Long.
JMHO - Harrison is who he is. A 5th round pick from the PAC 10 who could contribute but he has to find ways to do so. Heck even Drew Jones excelled on special teams prior to getting more reps at RB. He had to learn how to block and block well to get more reps as the 3rd down back. He was just as much as the super star status as Harrison but he earned his shots...I don't see Harrison earning and striving to earn any shots. You act as if he should be given Pro-Bowl veteran RB status of Jamal Lewis. Its ok. Don't excel in blocking, don't excel in special teams...we are talking about our 3rd string RB here...he best chance to get his shot is to earn it. And its not RAC's fault he only has to look into the mirror. You really got this thing backwards. 
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Quote:
That is one of the reasons RAC irritates me sometimes. It is almost like he can't see the forest because of the trees.
I'm going to take a stab at this since I think I understand. But I've mistakinly gone down that road before.
To put Harrison on the active roster we'd have to take someone else off of it. No brainer there. That's not likely to be any of the starters so it would be likely be a special teams player to be made inactive.
Now the special teams are short one player.
If Harrison cannot adequately replace that inactive special teams player then who is going to do that? The special teams player needs to be replaced.
By adequate, it means he doesn't have to be as good as, but nearly so.
If he can't do that, then RAC cannot make any special teams player inactive. He needs 11 of them.
If he cannot inactivate a special teams player, then he has two options:
1) To go to someone else on the active list and make them inactive.
Who would that be? The team needs to carry so many OL, DL, LB, CB, WR, etc on the active roster for game day. That allows for a rotation of players, such as on the DL or LB, or a backup in case of injury, such as at WR or OL, or an extra player to bring in for specific schemes, such as at DB or WR.
To play Harrison, (if he cannot play special teams), one of the above mentioned units would have to carry one less player. Those units need the number of players they have on the active roster for the above reasons.
From which unit would the team be comfortable losing a player? Likely none of them.
2) The second option would be to go to the unit backups to take the place of the special teams player who was made inactive, and play the best special teams player of the lot.
The trouble with that is most of them are already playing special teams. The ones who can't aren't, but they make the active roster due to the necessity of having the desired number of backups on each unit.
To take one of those players and make him play special teams would diminish the special teams unit the same as having Harrison playing special teams. Do we have the luxury of purposefully diminishing the special teams? If we do then we can just activate Harrison and throw him out there.
It could be argued that Harrison could be on the active roster, much like the other backups who don't play special teams, due to the necessity of having the desired number of backups on each unit. But the team already has the desired number of backups on the the RB unit. Activating Harrison onto the RB unit would be carring one more player on that unit than it needs. Do they have that luxury?
It all boils down to putting the best players on the field. That's something none of us can argue with as I'm sure we all want that.
If Harrison is going to get 5 carries per game then the team has to decide if it's worth diminishing the special teams unit for those 5 carries. Or if they can risk losing a player from one of the other units to get those 5 carries in return, (which still diminishes the special teams.)
Likely, when Harrison is on the active roster, the team feels we can still match up well against that particular opponent with our slightly diminished special teams. If they don't feel they can then Harrison is not activated.
The only way to activate Harrison if he cannot play special teams, and not diminish the special teams, is if Lewis is injured. Then the diminished unit is the RB unit which is diminished by the loss of JL. You can't fault anyone for that.
But to purposefully diminish the special teams unit, or any other unit of the team, just so Harrison can get in a very small number of carries per game appears to be something the team is not willing to do.
The solution: Harrison must improve his special teams ability so there is not a big drop-off with him in there. Count it as a fact that if Harrison could beat out someone on special teams then he would be active every game and the team could make use of his unique talents at the RB position.
I'm sure I've missed some things in all that. But the fact remains that if Harrison is activated, somewhere along the line, one of the other units will be diminished.
Does that make sense? To me it does.
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I am not blaming RAC...quit sticking up for him  Like I said,if Harrison can't play ST, and he can't help in the running game, why not cut him?? If he can help us in the running game, then we need to use him. I think a few nice runs would help as much or more than a tackle on a punt squad.
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Quote:
Does that make sense?
Sure it does. I have considered that.
I think what I said makes sense. If his value as a runner is worth more than the value of ST play, you play him some. Every time I saw him run the ball good things happened.
If it isn't, why keep him??
I guess it is just my opinion. To me it is easier to find someone who can make an occasional tackle on ST then it is to find a guy who can occasionally break it 30 yards.
You have 22 starters...that leaves 23 others.....yes...2 are qbs who won't play ST.
Sorry...I don't think it would be hard to find that 1 person...and how bad can he really be on a kick cover team? Something tells me the other team isn't going to bust off kick-off return after kick-off return for 50 yard gains.
I don't believe that.
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Ask Josh Cribbs just how important that one player can be to special teams. Ask him how many times that ONE block made a difference on his returns.
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Quote:
Ask Josh Cribbs just how important that one player can be to special teams. Ask him how many times that ONE block made a difference on his returns.
As I said...then we should cut Harrison and keep the special team guy if it is so critical.
If Harrison sucks at everything but running the ball, and that fact means he won't run the ball because he won't be active, you are wasting a roster spot keeping a player you know will never play.
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Why cut Harrison when you can keep him, use him in some games, and wait for him to improve his special teams play?
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great idea peen.... only keep 2 RB on the roster.... perhaps vickers can make the transition from FB.... 
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Quote:
If Harrison sucks at everything but running the ball, and that fact means he won't run the ball because he won't be active, you are wasting a roster spot keeping a player you know will never play.
Makes sense to me... unless that one thing that he does (in this case, run the ball) he does so well that he makes it imparitive to be out there, then hey, that's reason enough to have him active for games..
But that's apparently not been the case with harrison in past years. maybe this year will be different. One can only hope 
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Quote:
As I said...then we should cut Harrison and keep the special team guy if it is so critical.
If Harrison sucks at everything but running the ball, and that fact means he won't run the ball because he won't be active, you are wasting a roster spot keeping a player you know will never play.
Maybe, just maybe because RAC thinks he can improve his blocking enough, and inprove on special teams enough to help out this year. Will he..... or won't he..... we will know in by September.
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j/c...
Cutting Harrison would be stupid IMO. If we ever need an extra roster spot, it should come from the FB spot. We don't need TWO FB's..
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j/c...
Cutting Harrison would be stupid IMO. If we ever need an extra roster spot, it should come from the FB spot. We don't need TWO FB's..
Oh good gosh...of course we aren't cutting him....but we need to play him, special teams or not.
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o jumping jelly beans...
why are you even talking about it then?
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My thoughts exactly.
Good....someone else understands.
Thanks.
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really.....you think its worthwhile to give up a roster spot to give this kid, who excels at nothing but running, 8-10 handoffs a game? even if that means compromising special teams integrity, this kid is so stinkin good that it warrants changing the system because he's a difference maker? thus, its viable to remove a contributor in lieu of taking a risk on a kid that'll get your QB killed?
please....
its not like he's the first quick shifty back ever drafted. dime a dozen....but yet they rarely see the field. only a few gifted individuals can make it work in the pros, and this kid missed the train. sorry, jmo, but he'll only ever be insurance....unless he goes and plays elsewhere.
it'd be great if he could develop the skill set to contribute, but we need much more from him than moving the rock.
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How many 3rd string RB's are ever going to be given lots of praise on the field?
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i think you answered you question......very few. cause they're 3rd string.
if he cant beat out jw, he doesn't deserve to be active for games. he's injury insurance....nothing more.
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