DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum House passes minimum wage increase

I know your daughter is smart (hell she put me into my place, LOL) didn't know that though...

Thats fine but what does she expect from her employees? Her situation is the same as a manager at Burger King Mickey D's... I would expect it if I was in her shoes...

Think about it... Would you work at any of these places for the money being offered, even though minimum wage was raised...

Wal-Mart supports a raise in the minimum wage and their average wage is over eight bucks an hour. It will have very little if any impact on Wal-Mart.

Need a link?
<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My bad, never worked at Wal Mart before.

I don't know that going strictly on age is a good idea either, there could be an 18 year old with kids, who isn't receiving any help from her parents or anyone else. I get the basic point though, and it's a good thought. Also, this will hurt people too. The extra money spent on minimum wage workers has to come from somewhere, hence the price increases, but some of it at least will come from having less minimum wage workers, like 2 people earning 7.25 instead of 3 people earning the current minimum. So while minimum wage earners might be happy now, they won't be if they suddenly find themselves with no job at all, instead of their expected raise.

sorry, I saw that you already explained my point, and did it better then I did.

Very, very carefully. <img src="/images/graemlins/plthumbsdown.gif" alt="" />

Jaft I realize that your union friends tell you that a raise in minimum wages means nothing to them but they may be wrong...without knowing the situation.
States set their own minimum wages throughout the country with the national standard to be observed. A PREVAILING WAGE is determined in most states by union rates and generally this is considered when the states minimum wage is determined.
In many states the union then resets it's lowest rates to anywhere between 2 and three times the minimum wage. In Missouri it is generally 3 times the minimum wage according to the Springfield Journal.

So the minimum wage does in many instances affect the union wages

About the Union rates, also cost of living allowances will most likely increase, but it all depends on what and which formula is used, and the actual cost of living rising has to have taken place.

OK........smart people, educate me.

Why do the people who make minimum wage think they have a right to complain about how much they make? They accepted the job, knowing that it was a minimum wage job.

If they don't like it, get another job.

These people who work at Wal-Mart and such, [censored] and moan about how they can't support their family on minimum wage. What the hell are you doing trying to support a family on minimum wage in the first place?

If it were me, having to support a family is a hell of an incentive to better myself (get an education or experience) and find a better-paying job.

I agree with some of your points, Blade...we take jobs and know what we're going to make...period.

However, you can't always continue your education because you have to work to pay the bills.

I wish this meant that my pay check was going to go up to - I'd be for that <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

j/c

Here's my issue: hardly anyone that starts off at min., goes to work, and does a good job, stays at min. for more than 1/2 year.

The only ones that due are poor workers to begin with, and giving them an "automatic" raise for doing nothing will do nothing to help them. Not in the short run, not in the long run.

See, folks, min. wage is a minimum starting point. Go to work, do what is expected, and get a raise. It really is pretty simple.

Again, my whole point is, for those that think people start at min, and work at min. for years on end - it just doesn't happen unless they are terrible workers, or have no desire to improve.....

Amen! All it means to me is the girls that book our appointments will make more money to sit on their asses and chat while ignoring customers. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

There's one hole in your theory arch. Even people who "do" work up from minimum wage,aren't getting raises that have even kept up with the cost of living over the past ten years.

They've gone backwards. My daughter runs a Speedway. Top pay for her hourly workers,even if they do go up,is $6.50. Otherwise,get another job. So at $6.85,even those workers get a .35 raise. There's no motivation for an employer to keep giving raises with applications waiting in a drawer.

And they gotta eat too. I mean heck,keep the wage less and give them more food stamps and government funded subsidies? Or let them make a little more and give them less food stamps and government subsidies? Out of curiosity,would you prefer business who are making huge profits pay their workers? Or us tax payers? It's one way or the other. I'm just wondering which one you prefer?

Why not just tell your daughter to pay them more? Why does everyone need the government to tell them what to do?

When Union Laborers make over $50,000/year and the skilled trades make almost $60,000... I fail to see where education has any ability to dictate earnings. Hell, I myself have only a G.E.D.

It's just a matter of life choices... some people just make better choices earlier. It's Capitalism. There's going to be an upper crust and a lower crust.... and if ya don't want to be in the lower crust, at least find a way to be the filling in the middle <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm.....................filling.

i suddenly have a craving for an oreo cookie

J/C
Good points by Arch, and Pit.
The minimum wage act, was ruled unconstituional in the early thirties. It had been enacted and then signed by FDR, I think, with the National Recovery Act. It was defeated in the Supreme Court as unconstitutional, because it negated the the right of an employer to negotiate the wage he would pay.
The late thirties, unions became very strong in the U.S.. There were men, like John L Lewis, Walter Ruether, who had lived through extreme poverty, as children, and witnessed many explotations of their families, while men like Rockefeller, Carnegie made heaps of money from these exploitations. The Labor leaders were driven, by desire too help the less fortunate. In 1938, The Unions were strong enough to get the Fair Labor Standards Act was passed, and with it came the minimum wage of 25 cents an hour, among other things. Greed by a few men and the depression led too the law IMO.


My Dad worked minimum wage in the early 80's when he was laid off from the plant. He did three years, and went too refridgeration school. He was never able too get a better job, untill he got called back too the plant. He went all over looking for better work, but back then the pickings were slim. I'm thankful for it then, because the labor market was flooded with middle aged factory workers around here.

Top pay for the cashiers is $6.50? Top?????

Hey, pit, we've been through this before, no need to re hash it, is there?

I mean, if you are only qualified to scan things into a cash register, are you "qualified" to make $10 an hour? Maybe $15? What happened to being paid what your skills are worth? What happened to searchign out a better living for yourself?

I can't feel bad for someone that works at a speedway, making "tops" of $6.50 per hour. If that's the best job they can get, so be it. If they are good employees, with a good work record, they can find another job making much, much more.

And ask your daughter what corporate is gonna do when the current "top" earners are paid $6.50 an hour, but their minimum wage is going to increase (didn't ohio pass $6.85?)

Ask her what corporate will do - will they eat the extra pay and make less? Will they raise prices? Or will they lower the number of employees, and make the current employees work longer until they get a raise? Hint: it won't be eating the increase in labor costs.

And, lastly, what's the turnover rate at your daughter's place? I'll bet it's pretty high, cause the marathon station just down the road from me starts people at more than what the speedway tops people out at.

I don't know about all the fast food places, but as of last year at McDonald's you start at minimum wage and every 6 months you get a 10 cent raise no matter how good a worker you are; it's just company policy. A friend of mine took the job on the side and said some of the people that worked there for over 2 years were still getting paid under $6.00 an hour. I'd hardly call that a raise.

So, what are you saying? The gov't. needs to take care of these able, valuable employees? The gov't needs to step in and mandate raises for these people? I mean, I guess, after all, they do have a job, right? And having a job, in the u.s., means you should be able to do whatever you want, right? Cause you're employed, right?

Okay, so you start at minimum. After 6 months you get a dime raise. After 2 more months of showing up on time, working your shift, and doing a good job, you don't get another raise? Find a new job.

Angola Personnel Services, a job placement company here in town, starts people off higher than that, and that's temp work........Do a good job, and the company you are temping for hires you.

Just because you get a job does not mean you are entitled. You get a job, you do it the best you can, and they either reward you, or you go somewhere else. It's the American way. Hell, it's the worlds way. Just having a job does not entitle you to jack, in my opinion.

I'm not saying the gov't should go around like a parent and tell us what to do and how to do it BUT to me, you can't justify working for $5.15 as a livable wage. $6.85-$7.25 seems a lot more fair to me and gives the people a little economic relief so if they want to go back to school they can because it may not seem like much to you or me but for those people it means a difference of about $5000. I'd rather the people earn their money then just have us pay it through taxes.

They are entitled too a government that works for them. The same government that works for all of us. Your post, about it being used for starters is a good example, but it also protects the weak from being abused. There are many pro's and con's too it, but where you don't seem too undstand the protection element the wage provides, I have too veer.

Many caring citizens support the idea, of taking care of those who are unable too take care of themselves. The same thought goes into helping those who for a multitude of reasons( self inflicted or not) aren't able too work in higher paying jobs. Someone has too pick up the garbage. Someone has too run the dump. Sometimes the guy who picks the garbage up, doesn't have the mental capacity or skills too run the dump. He is still a human being, and if he is willing too work, and be productive instead of leeching off our society, he should be rewarded with enough, to get by on.

History proves, that this protection is necessary, in regards too Capitalism. Mans natural need for more, is far more powerful, than his need too care.

First off, even at $7.25, people making that, assuming they have at least 1 kid, get back everything they pay in tax, and then get the EIC tax credit any way, so what does paying them more have to do with taxes? They get all they pay back, plus.

As for not being able to make a living at the current min. wage - explain to me how making $7 an hour will help them earn a living - it can't be done. Not at $5.15 an hour, nor at $7.00 per hour. Not for a family. And, assuming someone making $5.15 per hour, or even with a higher min, say $7 an hour - you think these people work 40 hours per week?

If you want to help the poor people, then let's help the "working poor". Let's make min. wage $12 per hour. A famly of minimum wage earners would be gaga over that, and they could afford to pay the bills themselves, right? If we're doing it to help them, let's go all the way. $12.00 per hour is what it should be, do you disagree? I mean, we'd only be helping the poorest people, right? And the company's would just absorb the extra cost, right? And prices would stay the same, right?

Better yet, let's legislate a minimum wage of $15 per hour. That would eliminate poverty entirely. Damn, and to think it was as simple as signing a bill. Just ink the $15 minimum wage bill, and everything would be great.

Oh, well, than we'd have to legislate health care for everyone, of course, cause after all, life is fair, isn't it? I mean, those that work to improve themselves should be no different than those that are legislated raises, right?

Free health care for all. $15 per hour minimum wage. And free child care, and dental benefits to boot. As long as we're at it, we may as well through in legislation to the effect of "every 3 years, each citizen, and non citizen, is entitled to a free vehicle, as we want everyone to be able to make it to their inflated min. wage job without worry".

And the neat thing is, no one has to pay for it!!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Well, since the government should step in and take care of us, I would like to get paid for the hours I sit at work without a client. And, I want more than minimum wage...think they would go for it?

Some people are opposed to paying a little extra and that's fine. I personally don't mind if I have to pay an extra 15 cents for a cup of coffee. It might take the stock price go down a point but it could also help a family that's not doing all that well and that's good enough for me.

I know you were just throwing out examples, but the garbage picker uppers around here make a heck of a lot more than min - they make almost double, starting out.

Why do you think they get up so early, get off work so early, and smile all the time?

J/C

Anybody out there wonder what this will do to the people who are getting government aide for their children. A raise like that can send tens of thousands off Medicaid. Do we now raise the minimum amount of money a family can earn to receive these benefits?

Just asking a question, I'm not stating an opinion.

jc

When you go to the store, or pay someone to fix car or whatever the service may be, you pay a price. Do you not usually look for the best deal? What if the government stepped in and raised the price of such a service, would you like it?

Thats exactly what raising minimum wage is doing. Forcing someone(the employer) to pay more for a service regardless of the quality of service.

But hey, lets just keep letting the government control our lives, then complain about them taking away our freedoms.

They probably WILL raise the benefit amounts...$40 a week if a person works full time shouldn't change benefits very much...

I had in mind two parents working full time which changes it by $4,160 a year. You are probably right it will increase accordingly but you will pick up all those who were making above the old figures but now qualify. I am against it although the changes will allow my wife to work more because we barely qualified on my SSI.

I'm not implying the government take care of us. An ample opportunity too provide for ones need through ones labor, should be fostered. The minimum wage fosters this, and protects one from exploitation.
I do know that the definition of a salary employee, was significantly expanded. I'm getting older, so my memory may fail, but I believe it occurred in the last 5 years or so. I know it was not good for most workers, and was corporate friendly. I don't know if this applys, but I I would like too see the definition more friendly towards workers

Arch, you say find a new job as if it's "tra, la, la, la, la" Mary Poppins easy! It's not that easy. Also if you are telling these people that you claim are no better than minimum wage workers to find a new job, where do you think they will end up working??? Hmmmm. another minumum wage job, I would say!

I've worked many stores, I only have my G.E.D. and it's very hard to find a decent paying job, especially in FL and I don't drive (that's a real bite in the arse) and not from legal troubles because I'm blind in one eye and don't trust myself driving nor have I ever learned.

Also you make the comment about companies giving raises to good workers, insert hysterical laughter here, these minimum wage type places are not in the habit of giving anybody a raise regardless of how good a worker you are.

Also you say that most of these workers don't work 40 hours a week, well there are some that don't, the bad ones usually don't but there are many good ones who work 40 plus a week, especially if a business is always short staffed, and I've gone 3 weeks in a row without a day off, sick, and injured.

One more point about your health care statement. Why is it that a good part of the rest of the world, who by the way, are not the richest most powerful country, we are or claim to be, but yet they can find a solution for everybody to have health care; old, young and in between. I do believe they pay more for gas, cigs, beer/alchohol and maybe a few other things.

Finally, as someone pointed out, Wal-Mart and many other places start most people out at about 7:00 dollars an hour or so. So the new minimum wage hike really should not effect them. Oh, and not everybody working lesser paying jobs has children.

btw, not arguing, just discussing..... <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Speedway has made a business decision to pay no more than a certain amount for hourly workers which will be adjusted upwards as the minimum wage increases. If they can live with constant turnover/turmoil of employees training and moving on then so can you and I.
If a person chooses to stay at a job with little upward movement then maybe they need a second job rather than public subsidies.

See arch. You want to go from one extreme to the other in a debate. That's not a debate at all. Nobody is suggesting 12-15 an hour. You just want to run an extreme and rant about it. That's not a debate. That's using some obscure extreme and trying to make some obscure point that has no validity.

But you keep dodging the obvious question that you just seem unwilling to answer,but I'll try again...............................

Food stamps and all other government assistance is based on income. The more money you make,the less food stamps you get. The more money you make,.the more rent you pay and the less the government subsidizes your housing. So let's try again.

Would you rather big business pay their workers more? Or would you rather more of your tax dollars go towards helping them? Once again arch,one or the other WILL happen!

It's a point I've never seen you address yet one I've asked several times throughout minimum wage debates.

I would much rather see companies such as Marathon/Speedway,who are multi-billion dollar corperations pay their employees more,so less of my tax money goes into food stamps,Metropolitan housing and the like. Appearantly you'd rather give them your tax dollars than have rich corperations pay it?

And my daughter informed me that as of the new increase in minimum wage,she'll be able to give raises up to $7.50 an hour for hourly employees now. Since starting pay will now be $6.85. From my understanding,the wage the corperation pays is on a district by district basis dependiong on availability of help. Will it raise a family? No. But it will cut back greatly on the benifits allowed through government subsidies to their families. It's not if we pay it arch,is simply a question of HOW we pay it.

Squire,

My daughter is the "manager" not the corperation. In case you are unaware of how corperations work <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> as a manager,my daughter can only give out asessments and reccomendations on raises. Corperate controls the flow of money and makes the calls,not her.

Why,do you know of corperations that let local managers control their wage scales?
<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Sounds great Ralphie. Now,what about child care and transportation costs for that second job? Let's see,three kids at 50 per week. Plus fuel. Now how much will be netted from that "second job"? And how about the kids? Never see mom? What about homework,supervision and the family unit?

See,you're the type of guy who suggests they work so much they never spend time with her kids and teach them responsibility,then cry and moan when her kids are vandalizing your car cause mom's at work and can't supervise her kids.
<img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

My answer should be fairly obvious, pit. Of course I'd like to see people pay their own way, as opposed to getting "handouts". I think everyone would feel that way.

You want people to do that, as well. Good for all of us.

I believe your contention is that raising the minimum wage will go far towards that end - paying more of your own way.

My train of thought is: mandating a higher minimum wage will be good for a short time, but will eventually, sooner rather than later, lead to inflation, thereby putting everyone back to where we are now, or worse.

Further, when you add in my belief that the person making $10, or 9 or 15, or whatever - when they see the min. wage go up, they are going to feel as if they should get a raise - that snowballs, and soon, everything costs more, some will get raises to off set that, but many will fall further down the chasm of "poorness" (since I can't think of the word I want.)

Then, throw in the higher "qualification" levels that will probably come about for food stamps, medicaid, gov't. assistance, and now we have MORE people on those programs, thereby creating more money going out to fund those programs.

As for gas stations, I know some are corporate owned, buy aren't most independently owned? I think they are, but that is just my belief (and the fact that 75% of them in my town are independently owned - so I base this on that) Also, the vast majority of fast food places are also independently owned - franchised, you see. So, it's really not "marathon", or Citgo, or McDonalds, paying the wages, it's the owner of the stores - the little guy, if you will. I know there are exceptions, but I believe they are just that - exceptions.

Lastly, for those that are saying things to the effect of "well, so my coffee will go up a dime,.......big deal". Add up all the "little" increases and it adds up. Say, 5 cents for coffee, 5 cents for a gallon of gas, the bag of chips, the groceries, the electric, the phone, water, so on and so forth. Those increases will not be passed on to just the higher income people, it will hit everyone. I understand, no one can say how much the increases will be, and consequently we can't discuss "how much we will all paying extra" i.e. $20 a month or $300 a month - but my belief is it will happen. And then, the new higer min. wage workers will be right back where they are now, if not worse.

You don't need to agree, but do you see where I'm coming from?

I've got a question

How many of you that are complaining, how many of you actually KNOW someone who lives on minimum wage? How many of you have seen a single parent try to raise a family at the poverty level?

If you've seen this first hand, how can you be mad that these people can get a little bit of help. It's not much, but it's help.

Maybe it's just my liberal bleeding heart?

Yes I do see where you're coming from.

But wasn't it posted on here earlier that only 479,000 thousand people were making minimum wage?So how badly can that "really affect" rising costs dramaticly?

I can't speak for "gas stations" as far as how many are corperate owned. I know my daughters station and many in this area are corperate owned.

See,thats sort of what confuses me here arch. As was mentioned,most all places pay above minimum wage already. So it's not going to be like we will see peoples pay going from $.5.15 to $6.85. More like $6.25 to $6.85. So while there will be an increase in their wages,it won't be a signifigant amount.

Most grocery stores and gas stations pay close to,or above the minimum wage now. So I see your point and your concerns. But these raises,in reality will be pretty small for the most part. And I feel across the board price hikes would be more of a corperate ploy to expand profits,more so than to cover a very low rise in labor costs.

JMHO