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1st String
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nice article....but thats an awfully big spoon goin around that pot.
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Yeah, it is a bit of pot stirring, but what the hell else are we and they going to talk about for another month?  I actually see it pretty much as he's writing it. I HOPE that Quinn truly is given a shot, but I think the decision is made. I've read an article that Quinn indeed looked better in OTA's and mincamp. IF he still looks better in training camp, IMO I think DA is engraved as the starter, and it doesn't matter. This season.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Quote:
Wasn't it his second year?
Yeah it was.
![[Linked Image from i4.photobucket.com]](http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Defiantmac/nickk2.jpg) PRO-BOWLER!
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And when Ben Roethlisberger led the Pittsburgh Steelers to a 15-1 regular-season record and the Super Bowl championship as a rookie a few years ago, he threw 11 interceptions, or one every 26.81 passes, and was dropped 30 times.
Last I remember, the Patriots won the Super Bowl that year against the Eagles if im not mistaken...
That's not the only skewed stat in that article either...
Those old QB's and their low completion ratings were actually high at the time because the passing systems were different.
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Legend
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I've said that Phil comes off to me as there is no choice. Derek IS going to be starting week 1, no matterwhat. I can't agree with that, but who am I? Of course this guy isn't a Browns coach, nor is he in the FO, but he seems to agree with me.
DP17,,, I don't understand how you can say that Passan is agreeing with you. What did I miss!
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Any coach who doesn’t start a quarterback with that kind of production needs to have his head examined.
That kinda tells the story... Perhaps your looking at this paragraph:
Quote:
Yes, Anderson can be inconsistent. And yes, he sometimes stares down receivers. And yes, he occasionally has problems throwing the short pass. And yes, his mechanics still need some work. The result: 19 interceptions (one for every 28 passes thrown) last season.
But forgetting this:
Quote:
Fact is most quarterbacks in the National Football League have similar flaws. Brett Favre, for example, averaged around 27 touchdown passes a season, but also averaged 18 interceptions in his 16 years in Green Bay. When it came to throwing the football, he was fearless.
It actually appears to me that Passan is more FOR anderson.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
That's not the only skewed stat in that article either...
Those old QB's and their low completion ratings were actually high at the time because the passing systems were different.
You either HIT a receiver or u DON'T...
Doesn't matter what year it is... 
Go Browns!!!
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This guy's been honed in on Anderson from day one...Hope he's right... BUT... Quote:
It makes absolutely no difference how he looked in mincamp or in the OTAs. Or how he’ll look in training camp and in exhibition games.
This is where this bonehead really irks my butt...He likes being controversial...
Anderson's got a LEASH on em'...U CAN BANK THAT PASSAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quinn's READY chief...We won't let the season get away from us if Anderson flops...It ain't as clear cut as u think pal...
It's not a question of Anderson being the starter against Dallas...It's a question of HOW LONG HE STARTS...
If we're winning and he's playing decently he'll be in there ALL YEAR...If we're losing and he's stinkin' up the joint ENTER QUINN...FOR GOOD...And Anderson can put a For Sale sign on his house if he has one in Cleveland...
Hopefully he grows and puts up 27 a game cause with the upgrades on this D we will be winning ALOT if he can do that...
IMO we're TWO Defensive players away from ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN...
A Better than AVG Free Safety...Hope Pool can be it...(We'll FIND a Corner)
A dominant force INSIDE...Hope Bell can be it...
Tabber and I both called a 10-6 record last year...Me...My belief was we were 1 year ahead of the 5 year plan...Thomas and Steinbach were 2 reasons why...The 3rd was the youth on this team naturally maturing...And that was with Frye at QB...Actually I said we'd be 3-3 at the bye week...And finish 7-3 as we made the change to Quinn...lol...
Also...I do believe this whack was one of MANY on that site that were all over PETERSON last year for us...Joe Thomas & Steinbach were the KEYS that unleashed this offense...NOT ANDERSON...
Go Browns!!!
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Legend
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Joe Thomas & Steinbach were the KEYS that unleashed this offense.
Two of the keys.
Anderson and Edwards both emerged.
The point on Anderson getting the ball out is true. He saved the OL probably 10-12 sacks. There were many times he was a gnat hair away from being sacked when he unloaded the ball.
With Frye at QB, the line was on pace to give up 160 sacks.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I would have to agree that the Passan article is pro-Anderson. Passan has some valid points and without that one horrible game Anderson's stats would look alot better. Going back to the days of Frank Ryan and Bill Nelsen.... The Browns' defense was not that good,maybe average. There was another reason for their success,see below....... The relatively low completion percentage back in the day was because of the offensive schemes and the rules were different then too. The passes went more downfield. Bump and run made shorter passes more difficult. Holding penalties were 15 yards from THE SPOT OF THE FOUL,making longer passes mandatory to get first downs after such abominations as 3rd and 35. If you look at the receivers YPC you will see that they are relatively high compared to today. Contemporary wide out YPC is similar to tight end YPC from decades ago. If you throw farther down field you get a higher YPC,but you also get a lower completion % and higher int. %. There is a trade-off. Frank and Bill also had some really good linemen to work behind. The backs got all the credit,as usual, but the OL was really the strength of the team back then. One,belatedly, made it into the HOF. At least one more, Dick Schafrath, should prolly be there too. It's amazing how an OL changes everything. 
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Vers is in band camp. Though I don't know how long. ???
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Quote:
Quote:
I've said that Phil comes off to me as there is no choice. Derek IS going to be starting week 1, no matterwhat. I can't agree with that, but who am I? Of course this guy isn't a Browns coach, nor is he in the FO, but he seems to agree with me.
DP17,,, I don't understand how you can say that Passan is agreeing with you. What did I miss!
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Any coach who doesn’t start a quarterback with that kind of production needs to have his head examined.
That kinda tells the story... Perhaps your looking at this paragraph:
Quote:
Yes, Anderson can be inconsistent. And yes, he sometimes stares down receivers. And yes, he occasionally has problems throwing the short pass. And yes, his mechanics still need some work. The result: 19 interceptions (one for every 28 passes thrown) last season.
But forgetting this:
Quote:
Fact is most quarterbacks in the National Football League have similar flaws. Brett Favre, for example, averaged around 27 touchdown passes a season, but also averaged 18 interceptions in his 16 years in Green Bay. When it came to throwing the football, he was fearless.
It actually appears to me that Passan is more FOR anderson.
I'm talking about the fact that him and I both agree that DA is going to be starting week 1, no matter how good Quinn looks.
I know Vers would say that this is untrue, and if Quinn indeed is better that he'll be the starter. We've argued this several times. I don't believe that is the right way to go, just naming a starter and sticking with him even though the man behind him looks to be better.
As far as the inconsistency part goes, of course I agree with that.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Legend
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Vers is in band camp. Though I don't know how long. ???
did you mean Banned camp? 
What the heck did he do now?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I did but I didn't. It was a pun on words; I intentionally misspelled banned. I don't know what he did, but he didn't seem to think he did anything wrong. Maybe he's right; I don't know.
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I'm talking about the fact that him and I both agree that DA is going to be starting week 1, no matter how good Quinn looks.
I agree with that also.. Unlike some however, I'm not putting too much value on what DA does in camp and preseason...
Last year, I put a ton of value on preseason and camp and I felt as if DA should have been the one cut, not Dorsey. How wrong was that thinking?
So I think that Passan is probably right that it's DA's job to lose more than it's Quinns job to win.. (paraphrasing)
Just an opinion however.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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"You either HIT a receiver or u DON'T...Doesn't matter what year it is"
Not true Senoir Dayton....
The advent of the WCO and now every possibly Offense in the books has some WCO in it... WCO = high percentage passes.
Combined with the 5 yard rule - QB completion pcts. are now a much different stat then it was...even 10 years ago. Use to be if a QB reached 60% completion he was the best ever.
Lets take 87 stats (20 years ago). #5 Montana, #6 Bernie and a #15 Kreig - were the only QBs with 60% completion pct.
Jump to 2007
The top 16 all have over 60% completion pct. That #17 btw was Derek Anderson - and after him 18-24 had over 60% completion pct.
If that don't slap you in the face on the difference of today's QB and yesteryears were regarding completion pcts.- I don't know what is. Anyone comparing DA's completion % with yesterday's QBs and think its the norm...it just isn't.
JMHO - is 56% make it impossible to win??? Well the only other one below 60% in the top 26 QBs was ELI Manning - but he went on a run at the end of the season...very end. And was said to be a different QB in the playoffs. 60/5%
Of course the 27th QB was the 1 win Dolphins QB Lemon who was next under 60%....so the spectrum is clear. You better get in the Playoffs...and have a stud postseason with a STUD Defense or else you will be more apt heading towards the 1 Win Dolphins. Which is my fear with DA. His "ACCUARCY" has to improve before this poster recognizes him as a bonafide starting NFL QB.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Yah thts completely wrong...pittsburgh won the year after that...
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Quote:
Last year, I put a ton of value on preseason and camp and I felt as if DA should have been the one cut, not Dorsey. How wrong was that thinking?
I was right along side with you. I wanted Dorsey to stay and DA to go.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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I was right along side with you. I wanted Dorsey to stay and DA to go.
Sucks to be wrong doesn't it
I gotta say this so that you understand,, I watched Frye get killed in the first half of the first game.. I thought,, hell, we are in trouble.. Then DA came in and kinda stopped the bleeding.. I was still unimpressed..
Then the next game he lights it up and I'm thinking,, WHAT? Where did this guy come from.. He was more like Popeye after eating a can of Spinach 
The rest, as they say, is history.
Now you have two factions here on this board and just about every Browns board.. those that want DA, and those that want BQ. I suppose there's another faction, and I'm in it.... I don't care who we start, as long as we win
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
I don't care who we start, as long as we win
Your in the majority bud. It's just that the minority's are more vocal.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't care who we start, as long as we win
Your in the majority bud. It's just that the minority's are more vocal.
And what color are they?
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Legend
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Well when they are posting their faces are dark red 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Shep:
even with all the infighting, I'd guess that one group is orange...
...and the other group is brown.
Funny how each cheers as loudly as the other come gameday, eh?
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Quote:
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I was right along side with you. I wanted Dorsey to stay and DA to go.
Sucks to be wrong doesn't it
I gotta say this so that you understand,, I watched Frye get killed in the first half of the first game.. I thought,, hell, we are in trouble.. Then DA came in and kinda stopped the bleeding.. I was still unimpressed..
Then the next game he lights it up and I'm thinking,, WHAT? Where did this guy come from.. He was more like Popeye after eating a can of Spinach
The rest, as they say, is history.
Now you have two factions here on this board and just about every Browns board.. those that want DA, and those that want BQ. I suppose there's another faction, and I'm in it.... I don't care who we start, as long as we win
I'm kinda in the 4th category. Those who think Quinn can be better, but if he's not, I want the QB who'll give us the best chance to win. 
And I agree with you on the Pittsburgh game. I went to the opener, and was completely demoralized watching Charlie run around like a chicken with his head cut off. I still didn't feel much better with Derek in there. Actually, I remember screaming at him several times, wondering where in the hell he was throwing the ball.
I was (pleasantly) shocked at what transpired during the Cincy game, but if you go back and re-watch that game, although he put up big numbers, he made several AWFUL decisions that could have cost us the game had the defender held onto it. His decision making was poor, but his receivers helped him out big time. Not saying that he didn't make good throws. He made several of them, but also forced some really bad ones.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Quote:
Shep:
even with all the infighting, I'd guess that one group is orange...
...and the other group is brown.
Funny how each cheers as loudly as the other come gameday, eh?
No doubt Clem......no doubt.
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Of course this guy isn't a Browns coach, nor is he in the FO
With that said, everything after that meant pretty much "nothing".
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
JMHO - is 56% make it impossible to win??? Well the only other one below 60% in the top 26 QBs was ELI Manning - but he went on a run at the end of the season...very end. And was said to be a different QB in the playoffs. 60/5%
There is quite a bit more involved with the stat then hey you can't win with a less then 60% completion rate. DA was a bomber, and as such I wouldn't look so much at his completion percentage as I would his TD totals and his total yards.
For instance CF had a much higher competion percentage then DA, but CF couldn't win games, and DA can and has with a less then 60% completion percentage. To me at least the stats in this instance, are for sure useless meaningless dribble. I'll take DA with 29 TD's and 10 wins over a QB with a higher completion percentage because I actually understand that DA throws the ball down the field more then most QB's and thus he has less of a completion percentage.
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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"I'll take DA with 29 TD's and 10 wins over a QB with a higher completion percentage because I actually understand that DA throws the ball down the field more then most QB's and thus he has less of a completion percentage."
Nice words but full of total BS.
In your thought process you insinuate that DA's low completion pct. is due to his Home Run attempts and ergo its OK to hit on 56% of your passes considering you are shooting 3 pointers instead of two. (there I got Baseball n Basketball in one swoop...lol  )
That a bunch of bull. Also the insinuation that DA's penchant to be able to score in our offense is acceptable for his negatives that come with it. What has to be asked is it the Offensive system (OL, Running game, WR + TE weapons) that creat that opportunity or simply DA's skills that created those TDs.
Well lets look at the truth involved here.
#1. DA's low completion percentage is because of his long ball and ergo is acceptable because of the reward. Total balogna his low percentage is the FACT that he hit on only 50% on all his attempts of 10yards or shorter pass patterns. This myth created by some DA supporters that DA's low pct. is due to the long ball attempts is FICTION!!!! Here is the simple and true fact...DA is not ACCURATE...DA is horrific once moved laterally from the pocket.
We are not a WCO so that most of our underneath patterns are Check downs for DA which means it is past the 3 second timing. Which means the rush is a coming and he has to adjust the pocket. The good defensive teams took away the long passes and forced DA to be successful in the short pass area. As far as 10 yard passes are concerned (note these are the passes that are considered HIGH PERCENTAGE THROUGHOUT THE NFL!!!) DA was not OK...he was BOTTOM OF THE BARREL.
10 Wins...what is missing with those 10 wins was a playoff birth! That extra IT FACTOR that Franchise QBs have. If anything he had ANTI - IT in our two biggest games of the 2nd half of the season. Steelers game #2 to take control of the AFC North and a lead...all we needed was a ball control passing and running game to garnish the win. Instead an embarrasing display of inaccuracy - especially with the Steelers blitzing the kitchen sink and us picking it up. Then of course the Bengal game to lock in our playoff birth. Not going to go into detail except that 3 of the 4 INTs were not in the bad wind zone and actually simply poor decisions and even worst throws. The one INT that was attributed to the wind...we got the ball right back on the very next play with only 12 seconds lost being the effect.
No use going further as many will see this as a DA bash...what it is actually is an honest and true account of who DA is. The fact is he must improve considerably in short passes or he can forget about being an NFL starting QB...He is 25 and the coaches always will feel that they can teach him. Its worth the shot and he'll get it.
But don't BS me about the Home Run stuff being the 56% culprit.
Don't BS me about 10 Wins and Winning is what you get with DA as the good so take the bad.
I see us having to beat GOOD Teams to get into the playoffs and then continue in the playoffs. If the QB will be the determining factor...the DA we know with no improvement will not Garnish us wins. He's had only one win against an above .500 team - so siting that 10 win as a FACT that you get with DA with his 29 TDs does me no good when I think about a tough schedule and then even tougher one facing the top teams in the Postseason.
The 29 TD DA of last season will only have us a winning team if our Defense becomes a dominant top 5-10 Defensive team. Then it would be acceptable...but I fear the shut down of our deep patterns and teams forcing DA to beat them with the short stuff...and 50% - heck Quinn? geesh with that kind of defense against us...I'd rather have Holcomb than DA.
JMHO - its been too docile here since Vers left. Got to spike this up a bit with some inner beliefs I have and fears regarding DA 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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While it is completely innacurate to say that DA's low completion percentage is soley based on throwing deep down the feild, I do believe it has an affect on it. The truth of the matter is that DA does throw a lot of balls down feild, and of course on long throws your completion percentage will suffer.
I am not trying to say that this is the lone reason for DA's percentage problems, but there is no doubt it does play a factor. You'll never hear my deny that DA was awful on the short, simple throws last year. He was worse on a simple swing pass than he was on a throw 20 yards down the feild.
I highly doubt that DA will ever be a high completion percentage, but he will make plays for you.
I completely disagree with you on us needing a top 5 or 10 defense to make the playoffs. The truth is that, last year, if we would have had just an average defense, we would have made the playoffs. But instead our defense was one of the worst in the NFL. We completely relied on our offense last year; this year that won't be the case. At least it shouldn't be the case.
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All Pro
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I promised myself I would only read once a week & not post for any reason post here before the end of July or early August... But...
Talk about BS... Your last reply is a whole butt load...Wow... Most of your last reply is opinion and conjecture... You should start reading what you write before you hit submit... Don't get all holier than thou about talking football after your last nearly totally one sided perspective ridden array of opinionated poo...
You've been here for years and years and you not accurate either... DA has yet to start a complete season and you are all over him like a bad rash after the year he and the Browns had? Credibility check... Anyone... anyone... Iota... Bueller...
I don't see a darn thing wrong with the P article or what BttB stated... And none of your blah, blah, blah is proof that you are any where near accurate or right about what you spew... Which, IMO, on this issue you are mostly full of verbal diarrhea…? Proof, you may say, 3 years, 27 million and named the starter by the GM and HC… That’s enough for me… Should be for you too, accord to Eotab’s rules of order here…
Why is it OK for you to throw around BS but when I or anyone use the same term in your regard it is somehow disrespectable and uncalled for? GMAB!
You are so near sighted on this issue it is amazing... Like I mentioned before... If you were the QB of the Browns I’d support you... If you played close to how well DA played last year or not. I want to win. Not whine like you do.
Maybe you should look in the mirror and see if you are following you total support of all and every player and person within the Browns organization and the decisions being made by those who do. Because after yet another DA reply of yours, I'm calling BS on your claim of supporting him 100%.
Get back to talking about O-Line and the LOS... QB is not your thing.
I miss Vers... He may pee in the pool sometimes... But he makes you think about viable football issues, presents facts and his opinions are generally worth discussing...
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Legend
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"While it is completely innacurate to say that DA's low completion percentage is soley based on throwing deep down the feild, I do believe it has an affect on it. The truth of the matter is that DA does throw a lot of balls down feild, and of course on long throws your completion percentage will suffer."
You can believe all you want...DA's disparity in completion percentage has absolutely nothing to do with the longer pass routes. Actually he doesn't excel on the long ball either...its the intermediate 15-20 yard passes that DA proves above the average NFL QB. He's just tad subpar with his long bombs...has the tendancy to throw flat plane instead of air under the ball so that the WR has the opportunity to adjust and make a play.
But that flat plane throw is perfect for the 15-20 yard routes.
As for his 56% and all the other QBs norm for the NFL is well beyond 60%...look no further than the 50% accuracy he has on the 10 yard passes or less. And if you deny that is the difference between he and 90%+ of the NFL starting QBs - its just that - DENIAL.
So you go on thinking some fantasy about this kid who throws bomb after bomb as is he is Darryl Lamonica 
Truth is he must improve that 10 yard passing accuracy or we are toast.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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There are a handfull of people smart enough to put the truth to paper on this QB debate and let me say this:
You are 100% accurate.
DA made plays, he made some big time 20 yard throws, bullets that only a few NFL QBs could dream of making but guess what....
When he was off....he was an offense killer. A total and complete disaster. That second half against Pittsburgh was one of the worst QB performances I've witnessed.
Off the top of my head the Oakland game, Arizona, St. Louis, the second Cinci game he started HORRIBLY. Couldn't hit ANYONE. Heck even the greatest game of his life.....the first Cinci game....he started terribly.
DA can catch fire but he can also go ICE COLD. When I watch him throw check downs I think of Chuck Knoblauch.....PAINFUL.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Nice football argument.
Can't believe your non-football stance in this discussion. All you did was insult me with pooh remarks and Blah blah blah.....and yet you did not disprove one point that I made.
It is post like that from those who defend DA to the obsessive degree which simply convince me that I'm 100% correct and you guys simply can't handle being wrong.
Are you denying the fact that DA is 50% in his 10 yard passes?
Are you denying the fact that right there with those passes is where the gaping disparity in his throws are compared with the rest of the NFL let alone what we recognize as the upper echilon of NFL QBs.
You can talk down to me and insult me all you want. Its almost funny but a little degrading for what I consider a knowledgeable poster to be so biased on a subject matter that they simply cannot debate nor post and make sense.
I have no bias in this matter except wishing for the success of whomever our QB is. And if you or any other poster cannot see that he has a BIG TIME improvement project ahead of him for us to be successful then what can you do.
Live in your self made fantasy land about Bombs and Gunslinger and you got to take the Bad with the Good...lol
Point blank if he don't change drastically...we lose. The only possibly salvation is if the Defense becomes awesome and we can survive the mediocre successes of the 17 rated QB in the NFL. DA is who he is...nothing more nothing less!
JMHO - bring some football to the table next time. Not that insulting Garbage you just spewed...talk about holier than though??? Got news for you - its the guy who goes pooh and blah blah blah as their football argument that is the one who doesn't have prove their side of the debate. So you lost on that account. Man what happened to you
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Hall of Famer
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Where in my post did I say that DA was amazing at the long ball? Where did I say that DA's completion percentage problems were soley because of throwing deep passes? I said that he is innacurate short, and have said many times that he needs to improve his short game. All I said was that him throwing long passes had SOME affect on his percentage.
You completely misrepresented what I said. And I have never even heard of Darryl Lamonica.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,964
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,964 |
NRTU.
Can you win with a 56% completion rate? Yes, absolutely, at least 10 times.
Will it be tougher this year? Better competition, but hopefully offset by a defense somewhat better than dead last.
Will BQ be a better NFL QB than DA? I DON'T KNOW. What really, really annoys me is those who state that he will, as though it is proven fact.
Is BQ blowing DA away so far in OTAs? Not unless "high 70's" is somehow less than "75%". Not the way I learned math.
Lamonica never had the team DA now has, he worked for years with less than what DA had last year, and hopefully a LOT less than our QB will have this year.
If I got the numbers right, just 20 more completions gets DA to 60%. For the first time in 7 years or so, he will be working with the #1 crew on improving that short game. Can this be done? Can BQ be any better? We have no real evidence either way.
When my QB gets me numbers even with Brett Farvre's career averages, I am fairly happy. With just a little improvement, which I saw beginning to happen last year, I believe DA can take us all the way. If not, and the unproven rookie can, I will be happy with that.
BUT - if BQ tanks as well, I will always wonder just how much might have changed if the best QB we have seen in nearly 20 years got just a little bit of well-earned fan support.
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Eotab a lot of what you said was true and on point..
DA was pretty bad at what should have been high completion percentage passes. But you also fail to endorse the idea that part of that low completion percentage was due to him working the ball down the field..
You leave out YPA 7.2 pretty good I think.
Carson Palmer 7.2 YPA with 26 TD's, and 20 Int.s. Interesting NO
Drew Brees 4,423 Yards 6.8 YPA 28 TD's with 18 INT's
I can keep going but DA fits in pretty well with some of the better QB's in the league.
Can he improve, and get better, well he is just getting started as a starter, and based off the Stats he has clearly established that he isn't the lost cause that you seem to think he is. There is hope, and I would agree, there is plenty of room to improve, but there is hope.
The top 10 defense thing isn't so far off as some may believe, with a grueling schedule we will face, against some of the better defense's hell yeah the defense needs to get near to top 10. I wouldn't expect DA to have great game after great game given the top defenses he will face, so hell yeah the defense will need to be much much better this year otherwise it will be a long season. But that will be as much a defensive failor as it could be a DA failor.. I have no crystal ball but I think will see a much better defense, and a defense that will help relieve some of the pressure from DA, but hell man I would want that regardless of the schedule..
JMHO
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
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Posts: 17,475 |
"Where in my post did I say that DA was amazing at the long ball? Where did I say that DA's completion percentage problems were soley because of throwing deep passes?"
Don't get all defensive and make stuff up about what I said and how I interpreted your post.
I don't like confusion. That is why I copy and past specifically what I am addressing in my reply to you. The quote in red are your words. No you didn't state that it was the sole reason. But try proving your point. Show to me how DA throws more long ball than other QBs who run as many plays as we ran last season. The offenses that dictated - Pats, Colts, Dallas and ours. We took more long shots than those teams? Brady 68.9%, Manning 65.4% and Romo 64.4% - then we got DA 56.5%. Where did the disparity of completion percentage come from. And I'm telling you point blank where it came from. Heck...nobody threw it long more than Favre...his completion %? 66.5
Brady connected on 15 pass plays 40+ yards
Romo 11
Manning 9
Favre 16
DA? 6...this long ball thrower you all think DA is simply is a myth. Here is where DA excels - Pass plays 20 yards+ That is where he stood toe to toe with all these great QBs. Not the long ball...his touch sucked on his long throws - he did not have the concept of leading the WR and let them adjust. When he tried he mostly was way off and our Wide open WRs had to Dive for the ball and roll into the endzone. The reason DA is our starter is because he can throw that 20+ passes which is a very good thing.
The reason DA might not be are starter by the end of the season is because he did not improve on his 10yd and under patterns. Cause he was horrific. But the bomb...a myth the DA supporters made up.
Its a shame you don't know who Lamonica is - maybe you should learn about him and educate yourself.
But it is quite simple. DA is 8-10 points under the top QBs in completion percentage cause he was HORRIFIC in his accuracy on short HIGH PERCENTAGE passes. HORRIFIC...not mediocre. It is what teams will force him to beat them with this season. They see the 20yd route prowess he shows...they will take those throws away from him until he shows he is not a ONE HORSE PONY SHOW!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
"DA was pretty bad at what should have been high completion percentage passes. But you also fail to endorse the idea that part of that low completion percentage was due to him working the ball down the field..
You leave out YPA 7.2 pretty good I think.
I don't leave it out...you and others are misrepresenting that YPA as a fact that he takes these long shots. I'm telling you and others DA EXCELLED in one area and one area alone - 20+ passes which were routes of 15 yards and more. But not the Bomb. He didn't even come close to airing it out long as you people have dreamed up. Yeah he has a Blue Ox named BABE and his foot prints made the Great lakes
I'm not even saying DA sucks...that is not my point. Fact is he is very, very good in an important area. So good he possibly could become a great QB...which is what we will find out this season.
But the Bomb...no touch - definitely an area he can get better - no doubt in my mind he will be able to improve each year.
The Corner fade route...no touch - definitely an area he can get better - no doubt in my mind he will be able to improve each year.
He of course must prove it...and how many years will he get with another QB making that window very small?
The 15-25 pass patterns. He is GREAT at...not Good but GREAT and that is why we consider him special!
The 10 yard and under patterns...terrible. And I will tell you why and I will tell you why I think he will have a hard time improving in that area.
1. Footwork. He doesn't have the ability to pitter patter those feet (so many confuse this with Happy feet...when in most cases its proper QB footwork) the quick shifting rotating the QB to perfect angles to his target...pivoting left and right...he just doesn't quite get the feet in proper position to check down and take that short pattern.
And forget it when he moves out of the pocket...even a couple of feet...he cannot make the footwork adjustment. He couldn't in college and he can't yet. Will he improve. I don't it if he is just now being introduced to footwork.
The Good teams will be designing attacks to get DA out of the pocket as much as possible. Every team will design their Defenses to take away that 15-25 yard pass away and force DA to beat them underneath - by being back they won't be out of position for the long throws either.
I'm telling you all what to expect. I am not making things up. DA was good in one area alone. The Bomb is myth you all have conceived...if not prove me wrong.
I know for a fact where the disparity in his completion percentage is. It doesn' t take a genius either. Its as plain as the nose on your face. Why so many are trying to dispute it - I think is an act of desperation??? Quite frankly I don't know what it is.
Finally...I would LOVE FOR DA TO IMPROVE....I mean LOVE!!!!
I will hope and pray for him to improve.
But until he shows it...I fear it - I would hate to see us waste golden opportunities on Playoff/SB runs waiting for him to improve.
As always JMHO - If I'm wrong please prove it...don't just say I don't understand...I understand a lot more than what you are giving me credit for.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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How about you show that stat for some other quarterbacks besides the elite ones? You will never hear me say that DA is any where near an elite quarterback, like those guys are. And if I could by some maricle, find a stat showing how many long throws each quarterback attempted, I believe it would show that DA threw quite a few long passes. However, there is no way I am going to be able to find those stats.
I have said and will say again that DA is horrible on the short passes. It is an area that needs a LOT of improvement. I agree that his best throws are the ones that are in the 20 yard range. And for the record, I actually think Quinn will be the better quarterback.
And it's a huge shame that I don't know who Darryl Lamonica is, considering he retired 20 years before I was even born. It's just awful that I've never heard of him. And once you mentioned him I DID look him up. That's how I know he retired in 1974 and won the MVP twice. Anyone who knows me will say that I try very hard to educate myself on matters that I don't know much about.
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Somebody said at seasons end, I think it was you, that on his short passes he seems not to adjust his throwing motion. Meaning, he uses the same motion as he does on longer throws but just tries to slow it down, hense, the inaccuracy in the short range and the indication of a lack of touch on those throws.
We all saw what happened in the 2nd Pittsburgh game when they took away his longer routes and forced him to throw short, high percentage passes. It was horrible and I can only hope that he improves.
I said once that on short throws he reminded me of a baseball pitcher throwing to first base. When he slows down his velocity he loses a lot of accuracy. Maybe that's a bad analogy but it's what I saw.
I must admit that I don't care for the haters regardless of whom on our team it is aimed at. But honest opinions judging by what one sees is not hating. It's opinions. We all have 'em. DA deserves a lot of credit for his accomplishments last season. Had he turned out to be the QB we all thought he was last pre-season our season would have been a dismal failure and we'd likely have a new coach in this upcoming season. Instead, he was able to work in the team environment and play his part in creating some success and respect for the Browns for the first time since our return.
His contract gave him some credit. The media gives him some credit. Some fans give him some credit. So he is getting what he deserves. But that doesn't mean that he doesn't have a lot to prove and this season is the opportunity he has to prove it.
Like you, and some others, I dearly hope and pray that he impoves in the areas of his shortcomings and there are more than a few. But he also excells in a few areas such as those 20+ passes you talked about and his quick release that tells me he makes quick decisions. Now he just needs to learn to make the right decisions more often, give up when it's not there, improve his footwork and his short throws and he'll be good to go.
Lord knows everything else is in place including what should be a much improved defense up front that should have both sides of the ball contributing to the game instead of expecting the offense to do it all. The table is nearly set for a long run. I hope DA is up for the challenge.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Posts: 78,682 |
Quote:
Talk about BS... Your last reply is a whole butt load...Wow... Most of your last reply is opinion and conjecture... You should start reading what you write before you hit submit... Don't get all holier than thou about talking football after your last nearly totally one sided perspective ridden array of opinionated poo...
Opinionated poo?
DA SUCKS at the short pass! Something "franchise QB's" DON'T DO!
His mobility SUCKS!
Those aren't "poo".
When "the heat is on" and it's "do or die", he FLOPS!
Sure, you wanna blame Chud and the "weather" on DA's performance in the Cincy game. Well I got news for you. Brett Favre plays in Green Bay for God's sake! Big Ben plays in Pitt.
So you can throw your "bad weather excuses" out the window. In the Cincy game AND in the Pro Bowl. Or was it the "bad weather" in the Pro Bowl too?
The reality is, DA has VERY limited skills and chokes when the heat is on. Good luck with that!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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