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Shep and others...another great question after you read about OSP...just what was the expertise of those in charge at OSP?
Read to gain knowledge...if you chose not to read?....
Why would anyone not want to know more?
Who is doing the writing? What is their expertise? Why did the Intel under Clinton come to the same decision as the "OSP"?
See the fact is Mac, Saddam was to blame. PERIOD!! He had to make it look like he had WMD's even though he didn't. That was his status in the area and he couldn't look weak or some of his other enemies would have taken him out long before we did.
He never thought we would start a war. He played the shell game with nothing under the shells and that gave Bush the opening to go to war.
For me to read these books you want me to read and believe them with the same conviction you have I'd have to ignore a plethora of information that counteracts their assertions.
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Ok, so how does this prevent or hinder you're ability to get a job out of college?
The economy. NO ONE is hiring right now. No one I know can find jobs right now, and the overwhelming majority graduated from college.
Stop making excuses. I was hired for a full time job within my field BEFORE I graduated from college. Maybe instead of crying about Bush and the economy you should be out looking for a job.
Because, ya know, I'm in the job market right now and people are hiring a year/year and a half in advance? 
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For me to read these books you want me to read and believe them with the same conviction you have I'd have to ignore a plethora of information that counteracts their assertions.
free....The one request I made...and you chose "not" to read...
I did not ask you to read a book, did I?
Anyone who claims to care about this country...needs to expend a little of your time and intellect to the subject of "The Office of Special Plans".
To read...is to gain knowledge...
When you chose not to read, you remain as you are...
Free, I could not make it any easier...
The rest is up to you and all the rest who refuse to read about the "Office of Special Plans"
It's not that hard to do a little search on the subject, is it?
My guess is your afraid of what you might read??
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Bush did not start the war.
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For me to read these books you want me to read and believe them with the same conviction you have I'd have to ignore a plethora of information that counteracts their assertions.
free....The one request I made...and you chose "not" to read...
I did not ask you to read a book, did I?
Anyone who claims to care about this country...needs to expend a little of your time and intellect to the subject of "The Office of Special Plans".
To read...is to gain knowledge...
When you chose not to read, you remain as you are...
Free, I could not make it any easier...
The rest is up to you and all the rest who refuse to read about the "Office of Special Plans"
It's not that hard to do a little search on the subject, is it?
My guess is your afraid of what you might read??
My guess your afraid to show us what your reading because the people who are doing the writing have an agenda and manipulating data and make unproven claims to support thier agenda.
PS. I've read about the OSP, for the most part I think it's a bunch BS. Even an independent review from the Pentegon said they did nothing "Illegal".
![[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]](http://mypsn.eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/Letherface.png)
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I think this part refers to GWB, not The American People. For they are living in the mess he created. And having the money to "live above it all", he doesn't have a clue. And he is the one who was duped into doing what he did, not us....................
"The reason I'm quitting is simple. I'm fed up with you people. I'm fed up because you have no understanding of what's really going on in the world. Or of what's going on in this once-great nation of ours. And the majority of you are too damned lazy to do your homework and figure it out."
Yes, George, you haven't even bothered to try to figure it out.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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My guess your afraid to show us what your reading because the people who are doing the writing have an agenda and manipulating data and make unproven claims to support thier agenda.
Like your side doesn't?
Pulease..................
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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They don't want to know the truth mac. And they won't admit it even when it bites them in the ass. It is what it is. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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My guess your afraid to show us what your reading because the people who are doing the writing have an agenda and manipulating data and make unproven claims to support thier agenda.
Like your side doesn't?
Pulease..................
What side are you talking about??? Please show me where I said to go read something Pit. 
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Point being, both sides are just as guilty of the assertions you made towards "one side", period. But many people write books to simply "clear the air". Problem is sorting out which is which. Because according to the party line, they're ALL "disgruntled employees". I don't buy that for a minute. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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They don't want to know the truth mac. And they won't admit it even when it bites them in the ass. It is what it is.
Well the problem is you and mac don't know the truth just like I don't. I think Saddam was putting out information saying he had WMD's to protect his status in the area.
He played the shell game with nothing so when the inpectors came and found no evidence there was still that doubt that he was hiding somthing. And that's what the intelligence thought, and they made the ground work to go to war.
But to say that Bush created a special office to make up intel and manipulate intel to go to war can no more be proven as "TRUTH" as the Iraqi general saying he witnessed commercial jets being modified to take WMD's to Damascus.
Until then I'll believe what I want to believe, but if you or mac can produce some real facts, then please pm me and we can continue the discussion.
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He played the shell game with nothing so when the inpectors came and found no evidence there was still that doubt that he was hiding somthing.
Having "doubt" is a basis for war? Refusing to let inspectors continue while being allowed "full access" by Sadam?
And you wonder why so many people turned against him? It's only obvious.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I think Saddam was putting out information saying he had WMD's to protect his status in the area.
He was.
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there was still that doubt that he was hiding somthing.
There is a common misconception about his hiding weapons or plans for weapons. it was fairly clear that his weapons cache had been destroyed after the Gulf War. He kicked them out several times because they were reporting this. He didn't want to look weak. What was in question was whether or not he was clandestinely rebuilding the framework for a weapons program.
That's why the Bush administration's assertion of an 'imminent threat' borders on an outright lie to me...there was no evidence supporting the imminency of a threat from Hussein...at best, one could claim the evidence existed that he was attempting reconstitution...which is a threat...but not as imminent as they made it out to be.
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He played the shell game with nothing so when the inpectors came and found no evidence there was still that doubt that he was hiding somthing.
Having "doubt" is a basis for war? Refusing to let inspectors continue while being allowed "full access" by Sadam?
And you wonder why so many people turned against him? It's only obvious.
You do know that for the most part that is what Intelligence is all about right? Like I said, SADDAM was putting out intel that he had WMD's as well as playing the shell game with the inspectors (which BTW made him defiant of the 17th UN resolution). He needed to protect his status in the area that he was a powerful man to ward off his enemies in the area including and most importantly Isreal.
He never thought we would wage war on him and ousted him, and he was wrong. But if Saddam had fully complied with the UN inspectors, then IMO there is no way Bush would of had enough to get Congress to authorize the war.
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He needed to protect his status in the area that he was a powerful man to ward off his enemies in the area including and most importantly Isreal.
No, no, no, no - Iran.
Hussein was no fan of Israel, but he was fairly secularist and wasn't as involved in the skirmish as the rest. He feared Israel's military power, but that man hated Iran. That's one of the two big reasons why we were always friends with him.
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He needed to protect his status in the area that he was a powerful man to ward off his enemies in the area including and most importantly Isreal.
No, no, no, no - Iran.
Hussein was no fan of Israel, but he was very secularist and wasn't as involved in the skirmish as the rest. That man hated Iran. That's one of the two big reasons why we were always friends with him.
Yes your right but also Israel, remember up until we took him out Saddam was the largest supporter of terrorism against Israel. He paid more money to suicide bombers and to groups like Hamas than Iran (who was #2) did to groups like Hezbollah.
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He paid more money to suicide bombers and to groups like Hamas than Iran (who was #2)
Get out of here. 
Saudi Arabia is a clear cut #1 and #2 is a dot in their rearview mirror.
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He paid more money to suicide bombers and to groups like Hamas than Iran (who was #2)
Get out of here.
Saudi Arabia is a clear cut #1 and #2 is a dot in their rearview mirror.
They just has stories about this like a year ago Phil, that Saddam paid more money and Iran is right behind them.
But that's talking from a Government sponsorship, when you get into funding from a private sector then Saudi Arabia jump up to #1.
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My point is that Iran was always the one in Hussein's scope...he didn't like Israel, but Iran was his whale.
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Making matters worse, you actively support those who help the enemy. Every time you buy the New York Times, every time you send a donation to a cut-and-run Democrat's political campaign, well, dang it, you might just a s well Fed Ex a grenade launcher to a Jihadist. It amounts to the same thing.
This one cracks me up every time. 
The grenade launchers are usually supplied by the guy on the right, who gets his weapons from the guy on the left.
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Making matters worse, you actively support those who help the enemy. Every time you buy the New York Times, every time you send a donation to a cut-and-run Democrat's political campaign, well, dang it, you might just a s well Fed Ex a grenade launcher to a Jihadist. It amounts to the same thing.
This one cracks me up every time.
The grenade launchers are usually supplied by the guy on the right, who gets his weapons from the guy on the left.
ZING!
Truer words couldn't be spoken.
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Ok, so how does this prevent or hinder you're ability to get a job out of college?
The economy. NO ONE is hiring right now. No one I know can find jobs right now, and the overwhelming majority graduated from college.
Stop making excuses. I was hired for a full time job within my field BEFORE I graduated from college. Maybe instead of crying about Bush and the economy you should be out looking for a job.
Because, ya know, I'm in the job market right now and people are hiring a year/year and a half in advance?
So, first you say no one is hiring, but now you say companies are hiring college grads a year to a year and a half ahead of time? If your last statement is true, I'd say the job market is on fire, wouldn't you?
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I'd say the job market is on fire, wouldn't you?
No I would'nt But that is just from what ive seen and heard ,
Now I do think it is picking up tho, ofcourse this is an election year.
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Certain segments of the job market are on fire... I suppose some are not. I know we are fighting for qualified entry level engineers and construction management grads and there are not enough to go around.
yebat' Putin
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Which is why my nephew is starting college this fall in engineering, He knows that's where the jobs are. Funny how that works.
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What kind of engineering? Would he like to come to beautiful Raleigh for an internship?
yebat' Putin
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Need any Software Engineers? I think it's funny how many people go to college for silly liberal arts type degrees and then can't believe they can't find a job. Seems like I knew tons of kids back in college that took some garbage 4-year degree just so they could have all kinds of time on the weekend to party it up in a college atmosphere. 
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No, and this is not to get on you, but that's one of the big reasons we can't find engineers. Everybody with that type of mathematical/analytical perspective over the last decade has decided to do "something with computers"...
yebat' Putin
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But they're so cool ... and you can play games on them.  Actually, I wanted to be an EE when I first went to school ... but in the first circuits class I walked into, about 5 minutes into the lecture, the professor said something like, "Now as anybody can see, you need to take the derivative twice in this instance ... it's just simple Calculus" I said "EFF THIS!!", and made a bee-line to the Computer Science cirriculum.
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I believe he'll be just the type of engineer you are looking for....and you can't take him down south!!
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The reason I asked ammo what he was studying was because I went to school and a number of my friends graduated with a "college studies" degree. These were friends, and I still thought "what the hell is a college studies degree, and what exactly does it prepare you to do jobwise?".
That was 1991. Today, I see so many people graduating with "specialized" degrees - things like "intermedia relations", or "sports marketing", or hotel management, or service industry marketing.......heck, you could list them all day.
What do they mean? Many times, nothing more than "college studies" degree.
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I'd say the job market is on fire, wouldn't you?
No I would'nt But that is just from what ive seen and heard ,
Now I do think it is picking up tho, ofcourse this is an election year.
You quoted me, but you forgot the most important part - "IF companies are hiring people a year to a year and a half ahead of time...." Makes a difference, shotty.
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I always loved the history and literary majors who were just shocked and appalled that great jobs were not there waiting for them. 
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Precisely. The whole "Hey, I graduated college and have a degree, what do you mean I can't find a fantastic paying job?" attitude.
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I always loved the history and literary majors who were just shocked and appalled that great jobs were not there waiting for them.
Their there, they just didn't expect the job to be librarians.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Precisely. The whole "Hey, I graduated college and have a degree, what do you mean I can't find a fantastic paying job?" attitude.
It is kind of interesting. I think the biggest problem with a lot of new college grads is that they don't start looking until their last quarter of school, and on top of that, they don't know how to interview. Being smart and knowing how to interview are two totally different things...
Another problem is that a lot of kids want to move close to home, so they restrict the area they are looking. Unfortunately, Ohio is a terrible place for young people in the job market when you start comparing it to other areas. There just is not the same opportunities, period.
I love Cleveland as much as anyone, but being a young guy, I am glad I am gone right now. I would love to move back down the line once I am more established..
I heart winning
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There's some truth to that, depending on the field. My cousin graduated from BG with a teaching degree. Her fiancee graduated from Defiance College with a Math degree, hoping to go into teaching. All they could find around here was sub jobs. They spent a year doing that, then DC suggested they move there, if they were open to moving.
They were, as they are young and in love and wanted work. They spent a week there, interviewed, and both had jobs by the time they left - last summer. After they moved down, my cousin accidentally stumbled across a school within 4 blocks of where they lived and decided to take that job since it paid more and was closer to "home".
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It actually sucks, but its true...
Your nephew is a good example. Hell, I have a ton of friends who are still subbing for crying out loud. It's ridiculous.
When you start looking at the YOUNG graduates who have marketing, advertising, and business, etc. degrees, Ohio is a crappy place to be. There just is not enough big business/agencys for all thes kids.
There will always be engineer, nursing, and other nitched field work, but for the other stuff it just sucks in Ohio as young person..
I heart winning
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Here in Nevada they cant get enough teacher's, and the school system just suck's!
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I started looking for a job in my 2nd to last semester (Fall 07) but I did not start a big "applying blitz" till my last semester. I heard back seriously from about three places, one in Lancaster Pa (did not get but I changed my mind about after seeing the cost of living compared to the pay), Murfreesboro, TN (which I got and accepted), and Baltimore MD (thank God I heard back from TN and was able to forget about this one).
I did not want to move away from family and friends in Erie but if I knew if I wanted a job within my field (Env. Studies -Geography) I had to look out of state. I may move back sometime in the future (or move closer) but my goal is to get experience in my field.
I had the attitude that if I wanted a job in my field I had to go out there and get it, not wait for one to pop up close to home. This is the attitude a lot of college grads lack.
"Change ownership of the team, the true change we can believe in." - I made this in 2008 
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