DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Interview Knapp for OC

I can see it now....when our record and O sucks next year....

"Well it takes time learning the new WCO...." <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

From the article above...

My mistake I guess somehow I missed that part.

CoughTroySmithCough

Who said that? <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" />

Cough-spit-NO....

Another thought...

Assuming Knapp learned a thing or two from Alex Gibbs, he could bring the Denver blocking scheme and line philosophy with him. Possibly Gibbs himself.

Droughns knows the scheme and is proven in it. The plot thickens...

Musgrave was retained, however it would appear Alex Gibbs is available. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

If i am running the PBO lol I think Dorsey's game is better suited but you lose that deep play ability but we have guys to make the run after catch and his armstrength allows that.

the question will be are our 2 qbs smart enough to quickly absorb the offense and talented enough to run it. Dorsey's armstrength make him the better option but neither has the accuracy that i want for the short spread.

Schaub is a possibility but I dont think Atlanta lets him walk so take him off the table.

Now you are on to the rookies. I still think Savage will take Russell if he is there but Brohm may have the quickest release and the best short to mid game. Quinn is made for more of the Norv turner offense. working the deep game and keep stretching the field. Makes him very inticing to Al Davis.

Now here is something to ponder lol Adrian Peterson in the Alex Gibbs system

LOL...Hey it was worth a shot <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Actually running the WCO would be a perfect situation for Thomas to come into. He is quick and can move very well.

hmmmmmm.....very interesting....i like...another reason we shouldn't draft RB in the first day this year....next year we r goin to have ton of talent...

Not exactly. You don't need a bad arm to run a WCO. McNabb's arm is strong and he runs it, ditto w/ Jay Cutler, Brett Favre, Matt Hasselbeck, etc. Despite popular myth, you CAN run the ball and you CAN throw downfield with the WCO. It's NOT a finesse offense unless you want it to be.

I don't want Dorsey even sniffing the field.

Frye played in the WCO his senior year at Akron, too. I still want him replaced, but it's worth noting.

You're thinking long-term and that's great. I agree.
Short term the questions this would create are numerous.
Its a crap shoot on whether the WCO would help Charlie next year or not - depends on a lot.
Certainly it would seem to help him longer term.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/16433898.htm


[color:"white"] West Coast offense possible
Browns interview Falcons' former offensive coordinator, whose system favors Frye
By Patrick McManamon
Beacon Journal sportswriter
BEREA - The latest name to surface in the Browns' search for an offensive coordinator indicates that the team's offense could take a new direction in 2007.

Add Greg Knapp to the mix. The Browns have strong interest in the coach who exclusively has run the West Coast system.

Knapp confirmed that he was in town Tuesday to interview.

``It went very well, and that's aboutall I want to say about it,'' he said Wednesday by phone.

Knapp was offensive coordinator with the Atlanta Falcons the past two years.

He was offensive coordinator with the San Francisco 49ers from 2001 to '03 and their quarterback coach from 1998 to 2000.

Browns General Manager Phil Savage, speaking at his annual postseason news conference Wednesday, declined to comment on coaches from outside the team who have been interviewed.

He did confirm the Browns have interviewed two of their assistants, Jeff Davidson and Rip Scherer, and said they could interview a few more candidates.

The team would like to interview Miami Dolphins quarterback coach Jason Garrett, but the Dolphins have not granted permission.

The Dolphins are looking for a coach to replace Nick Saban, and they are not letting their coaches interview for other jobs until they know whether the new head coach wants to keep them.

Savage, though, intimated that the team might hire a coordinator soon -- and that might point to Knapp, who was let go when the Falcons fired Jim Mora Jr.

``Do we want to wait and maybe put ourselves in a position toward the end of the playoffs and Super Bowl waiting for a coach on one of those teams?'' Savage said. ``And then have to put a staff together? Versus going ahead and maybe doing something proactive in the next couple days?''

Savage said the Browns want ``a leader'' as the new coordinator, someone who will ``take the bull by the horns and say, `This is what we're going to do.' ''

``I think the biggest thing for this offensive coordinator, whoever that is, is to get our team on the same page,'' Savage said. ``He's got to be a leader and pull the team together, and he's got to be innovative enough to use the pieces that we have.''

Knapp has coached the West Coast system his entire career. Although it did not work well in the long run with Mike Vick in Atlanta, the Falcons did reach the NFC Championship Game in Knapp's first season.

The 49ers had success when Knapp called the plays for Jeff Garcia.

The West Coast offense -- developed by former 49ers coach Bill Walsh and used by Mike Holmgren with the Seattle Seahawks and Andy Reid with the Philadelphia Eagles -- relies on quick passing and allows the quarterback to get out of the pocket and throw on the run, something Browns quarterback Charlie Frye does well.

The past two years, the Browns have run the New England Patriots' system, which is more of a straight drop-back style.

Savage said the Browns' offensive struggles in 2006 were not all the fault of the quarterback, and he listed as one of his disappointments the failure to establish an offensive identity.

A West Coast system would bring an instant identity.

It's interesting that Frye might seem best suited to a West Coast offense, and Derek Anderson would be suited to the Patriots style.

Savage said Frye enters the offseason as the incumbent. He added that the free-agent market for quarterbacks is not inspiring.

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IMO the wco is an excellent idea to transition to.

I don't see it as a huge changeover to this system on a personal standpoint. The biggest problem would be all new plays and some terminology differences. However we've sucked so bad that maybe changing these things would be better than continuity of the system (whatever it was <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />)

The WCO quick passing scheme would take the pressure off the OL and QB. We all saw how efficient Frye was when they shortened the routes against KC. Whether Frye is the long term answer or not, it would be great if he could be servicable for a year or two while other areas are upgraded. We would still need a vet QB in FA, but we need to do that regardless of the system we are running. This way we could target one that has some experience in the wco. Not sure who that would be. <img src="/images/graemlins/saywhat.gif" alt="" />

In PS last presser he mentioned Droughns and Fullback in the same sentence. I think RD would be a nice fit at a wco FB. This would mean the end for TS (one of my favorites ). RD blocks and catches well, which is a big requirement for a wco FB. This would also negate the fact that he may have lost a step. The tailback spot would be a competition from our other backs or perhaps a mid round draft choice. Didn't RD play FB for Denver in wco?

The TE is a big part of any wco. This would keep KW happy and productive.

When it's all said and done, we definitely need some kind of identity on O. Why not the wco?

[color:"orange"] The challenge for Frye would be the need to make quick drops and ACCURATE throws - Frye would need to progess in this aspect of his game to be a successful WCO quarterback.
There's the weakness in Frye that he would have to overcome..hitting his guys in stride ..
Then certain players HAVE TO RUN THE CORRECT ROUTE..TALKING TO U LEON <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

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Have you considered that an awful lot of our problems offensively have been getting the players on the same page mentally and how totally changing systems would impact that?

I guess that depends on your perspective. The WCO is one of the more challenging offenses for a QB to master, but from a defensive rush/pressure view that would seem to make sense.


You think he fits better than Vickers? The one I'm struggling with a bit is the tailback. I'm not sure we have teh guy for that on our roster, but I don't think you need anything close to an LT to be a successful back in the WCO - and that's somewhat of a plus in my eyes.

If we're gonna do it - just get it done. Don't waffle. Don't half-commit. Just do it.

Is CF as inaccurate as everyone says he is? Honestly wondering. IIRC, that was supposed to be a strength of his coming out of college.
He obviously has (barely) average arm strength, so my question is, if a guy doesn't have a strong arm, how does he get to play in the NFL if he's inaccurate as well?

Yeah - I agree on all of those too. The biggest "weakness" in my eyes was him learning the system. It would be a step back initially. Its just a matter of how quickly he picks it up. Ammo commented on him running a version of the WCO in college. Maybe that would help a bit?

I also wonder what this would means to our offensive staff (those who remain).
Are the position coaches familiar with the WCO requirements/concepts?

I'm not sure this would benefit Edwards. Short/In routes seem to be the bane of his existence. He's a down the field guy.
Is it possible that Wilson might actually be the best fit of the WRs we have?

When I say inaccurate it's when I see him throw slightly BEHIND his man..not the results of someone running the wrong pattern..
Frye has to be able to read the D, and hit his man in stride..on the front shoulder not behind him.

Other than running around all over the place, what offense did Frye run at Akron?

[color:"white"]There's the weakness in Frye that he would have to overcome..hitting his guys in stride ..
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don't think i've ever seen him do that. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
he's gotta learn timing also. he won't be able to wait until his guy's 10 yds ahead of his man to throw the ball, and as you say the receivers will have to perfect their route running also.
at this point i'm open to anything that will put W's on the page. this may open up more coaching changes also if we do indeed go with this. i assume we will need lighter more athletic type OL, but what's that gonna do to our 3rd and shorts during a cleveland blizzard?
like i said, i'm open to anything at this point, i just see that it's gonna take a thorough overhaul to make it work though.

[color:"red"] Yeah - I agree on all of those too. The biggest "weakness" in my eyes was him learning the system. It would be a step back initially. Its just a matter of how quickly he picks it up. Ammo commented on him running a version of the WCO in college. Maybe that would help a bit? [/color]

Yes it should..what really needs to happen is get the system in place now ..get him acclimated to it..the new OC is going to demand they all be on the same page..Edwards is going to have to buckle down himself...learn running this offense doesn't mean the ball comes to you all the time..it's a offense that spreads out the defense....

I think its kinda late in the game to be switching to a WCO.Should have been done,if they were going to do it,2 years ago.RAC had better get his resume updated,he'll be gone,midseason.
Our young talent on O hadn't learned the playbook in 2-3 years,I doubt they are going to pick up the WCO in an off season.Looks to me to be an example of a struggling franchise grasping at straws,not as a well thought out plan.

it's too late to switch now, but if rac gets replaced that's what we're facing anyway. i think that's what you were saying.

most of the good coaches where gone by the time we hired RAC.

perhaps this is what they wanted all along?

[color:"orange"]Excellent OC - if we dont go Davidson without a doubt he is the best candidate out there. Class all the way.

For those pooh - poohing WCO - basically that was what we were running some oddball variation of WCO. Sorry I didnt see any verticle stretch offense.
Also it was said that WCO would be the best system for CF as he was coming out.

Our best offense was from Arians - a WCO Couch was not best suited for it but then Frye is.

ahem...one other thing I believe Mr. Garcia is a FA...he has to be considered as a WCO veteran QB to mentor Frye...who better. Too bad hes been here before probably would not want to come back...but funny thing what $$$ does...lol <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Of course we will hear Rattay rumblings <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> lol <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Still if we are going to make a change in direction hes the guy.
If not then we go with Davidson...down to those 2.
Quote from Knapp was - It went well...n said nothing more - good sign <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />
JMHO

The positive with this move is that if RAC does get canned, you can keep your experienced OC and his system. You can also keep the 3-4 system. You just have to find the right coach like umm one of the Ryan Brothers or possibly even promote grantham who would probaly be a better HC than DC.

Tab I love debating with you and enjoy your posts but if you mention bringing back Garfumble i will have to puke and then put you on ignore lol.

[color:"red"] assume we will need lighter more athletic type OL, but what's that gonna do to our 3rd and shorts during a cleveland blizzard?
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U can still run from a WCO....Denver has run it..Green Bay ran it..COLD snowy cities..
U get the type of big athletic linemen who can effectively zone block and it''ll work..slow plodding linemen who can't pull or get to the next level are out.

[color:"white"]BCbrownie [/color] what do U mean TOO LATE to implement this offense?
As I've said we have the wide-outs to run this..we have the backs(Drougns is familar with it remember??) we have the TE's who would benefit..it's just a matter of getting the right linemen and getting everyone on the same page and working with Frye..he has to be able to learn the system.
Frye is a mobile QB , this would tap into his abilities..and if he can't acclimate to it, they'll bring in another QB.

Garcia might have worked in Cleveland had Botch had any brains - Butchy-boy tried to turn him into a pocket passer. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />.

And the talent around Garcia sucked, too. I watched NFL replay last night, Garcia's a warrior.

I'm trying to type in shorthand,I'm real lazy today.
I meant to say.If we go WCO,then RAC will definately be fired,because the O will be ugly,again,next year.
I am not a big proponant of schemes,I think they are over rated.Good coaches tailor thier schemes/plays to the type of players they have.
PS has preached patience and continuity,changing the entire offense would be contridictory to that.There are some very good reasons why we are so bad on O,and the scheme isn't one of them.

From what I am reading, it sounds like the WCO might be a good fit for us.
It is added bonus that it plays to Frye's strength...and having Winslow makes it very appealing as well. And if Edwards can turn into something special, Knapp would have that breakout wr that he did not have in Atlanta.

Here is what I want though...

Stability. Everyone who complains about RAC to ssssshhhhhhhhhhh!
We need to stick with him for the long haul. This team needs to stick with the 3-4 and if they pick the WCO, then stick with that for many many years.

Can you imagine the personnell we can acrue if we stick with one formation and style for 5+ years. It is all the wishy washy changing that kills us.

you can't say that for sure. what if we called more screens and ways to counter all the freaking blitzing we where getting? part of the problem was we did little or no adjustments to what the D was doing. A good OC with some new OL next year could look a lot better then you think.

[color:"orange"]If we debate...its about WCO QBs...last I looked he is scheduled to be a FA. I know your post was toungue in cheek sarcastic. I know he wont really want to come here after his last visit. But he has proven to be one thing. I pretty darn good WCO QB - hate him like him there is no denying that.

Question I have - will KW2 n BE the 2 guys Savage said must be a center of our offense right now as they are the 2 special talents we got. Neither has impressed me quick to learn. Will this be a variable in Savages decision? It just very well could be and in that case welcome John Davidson as our new OC???

JMHO

What I want to know is how does EVERY QB, RB, WR to come out of college always be "Shattered his schools records" or "Was top among <insert college here>'s best"

One reason would also be to emphasize elite route running. JJ knows the WCO probaly as good as any coach. Him being here is huge for the transition.

If BE can learn to run a freaking route, he has the skill set to do many of the things TO was able to do in SF and Phily. Take those quick slants to the house. I actually thought BE looked faster the last 6 games of the season than he did at anytime last year but man he jogs through some of those routes and u just want to kick him square in the ass.

Also Travis Wilson really blew me away the last couple of games in how quick he came out of his break. I didnt like him when we drafted him and part of that was he was slow out of his break. Maybe the most improved player i saw from camp to the end of the season. Only a glimpse but i liked what i saw.

Winslow would thrive in this system as he would be the deep middle man. The transition for him would be fairly simple. As you mentioned earlier we ran a bit of the WCO already. Winslow's routes were what u see from the TE in the west coast scheme. The only difference will be running more middle curls than before.

I really see the Knapp system as something that we are probaly more ready to run than Atlanta was receiver wise anyway.

The 2 areas where we arent ready is QB and OL. Is there a good zone blocking OL coach out there to be had? Would love Alex Gibbs but he is likely to stay in Atlanta.

QB Anderson hmm. Frye Hmm. Jarmarcus Russell hmm lol

[color:"GOLD"]EO...so you place Davidson ahead of Knapp?

Looking at the qualifications, Davidson should be coaching the Browns offensive line and hopefully, Knapp or someone with his kind of experience and success as an OC will be the Browns next offensive coordinator.

To be honest, Davidson has yet to establish himself as the Browns offensive line coach. In New England, he was an assistant to Dante Scarnecchia when Crennel brought him here two seasons ago. Davidson coached the line for a year and half and to be honest, they have not looked the best under his coaching.

I just believe we are putting Davidson on a fast track to a job that he has no experience at, simply because we like him.

I'm sorry, but "that" might be what got Crennel in trouble when he hired coaches 2 yrs ago...choosing people he liked, rather than coaches who had a history of success.

I love Davidson as a Oline coach and he needs to establish himself in that role before moving into the offensive coordinators position, IMO.
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I see what you're saying, but I think this is more the case in high school when you play the hand you're dealt each year in regards to personell. In the pros, you decide on a scheme and then bring in players to fit your scheme. Our offense has been so radom that I think a scheme is definitely warranted.

Right now, I'd say the 3-4 on defense wasn't a great choice due to our personell, but once we get the right players, it should change. That's the beauty of it with FA and drafts.

They have had 2 years to acquire the players to fit the 3-4,and the results are less than spectacular.How many years are you willing to give the FO to acquire offensive talent?
That is the crux of my argument.Hiring KNapp would be like starting over,again.Two years from now,nobody,and I mean nobody,will be able to listen to PS telling us it takes time to get the right type of player to run the WCO.

Forgive my ignorance, PBO?

~Lyuokdea