DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs nearly landed Vince Carter on draft day

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The Road Not Travelled
by Dave D.

So as it turns out, the Nets were given a huge, irrevocable, future-shattering, silver-plated opportunity to finish off the fire sale late Wednesday night, when they were completing the deal with Milwaukee.

The Cavs called. Wally Szczerbiak for Vince Carter, they offered.

Yes, the Nets thought about it, long and hard. For obvious reasons.

The attractive part, obviously, is that the contracts aren't cap-neutral. Not even close, in fact: Wally's deal ($13.2) runs out after '08-09; Vince's deal has four years to run. As it is, the Nets have roughly $36 million earmarked for their 2010-11 player payroll. The deal would knock it down to the $18 million area - a veritable Fort Knox for free agents.

(Though someone has to explain to us why Cleveland was suddenly willing to be duped into making things easier for a competitor to land LeBron that summer. Simple deduction? Either Ferry knows a lot more than the rest of us, or a lot less than the rest of us.)

So they talked about it, and went around the table a few times.

Then Rod Thorn said. . . .nah.

It's one thing to get a piece back, like the Nets did from Milwaukee. It's quite another to give away the only other guy in your lineup who averaged more than 15 points without getting anything but long-range cap relief in return.

This is depressing to know.

Well...this wouldve given the Cavs another option to score. Itd very much be a move to say we want to win right now.

Vince is still a legit scorer in the league, and being a SG he'd be a vast improvement over whats been there in recent years. Pavlovic, Hughes, and whoever else has been there hasnt been able to legitimize the Cavs scoring, so in that regard VC would be an improvement.

Secondly, it brings ticket sales and exposure. VC is still a high profile guy...despite his decreasing production (based solely on injuries (imo)) he still gets consistently voted to the All-Star game. He would give the Cavs another legit *star* His production has been down without JKidd around because theres no one to set up scoring as well as Kidd did, but its something that Delonte West could very much do for him, which should improve his numbers.

The trade actually wouldve made sense for the Cavs. For the Nets...I dunno about that. Wally isnt a playmaker. He isnt a game changer like VC can be.

Thank God this didn't go through. An aging, injury prone VC with 4 years left on his contract? Guy disappears as much as Drew Gooden used to.

na i know LeBron brings plenty of hype and all that, but you add a 2nd big time player and the hype grows.

Look at what happened when the Nuggs added Iverson to their roster. Whether production went up or not, they got more primetime games, their ticket sales increased and they grew in popularity.

When the C's added Ray Allen things brightened. They made the trade getting rid of Wally and Delonte...added Ray Allen and hype went up about em, and it led to them adding KG and kept Paul Pierce in town.

Lakers added Pau and look at all the hype they gained. Kobe and Pau!

When Shaq went to the Heat it was all DWade and Shaq over the news and their ticket sales SKYrocketed

Not to mention the free agents that see the "win now" mantra from the FO and team and think their built to win and want to go. I wont list all the guys that came to the Celtics for that reason, but Posey and House both took less money...and PJ Brown came out of retirement. Posey went to Miami too looking to win. K-Mart going to the Nuggs is another example.

You add a player like VC and it says win now...and free agents will take a harder look when considering Cleveland.

and VC may disappear during games...but, compare his production in the time he is still into the game to the rest of the SGs that have been in Cleveland.

And if he does avoid the paint...then he can become more of a spot up shooter. Delonte drives enough you wont need VC crashing the paint. LeBron drives plenty. Big Z occupies enough paint to keep them from being dominated inside. Remember VC is a SG...he's 6'5...the fact that he slashes and gets to the paint at all is a plus. Not everyone can get to the lane like a Kobe can. and VC gets there when he needs to.

Another thing to look at is the end of the game. VC is still a threat to hit a game winner at any time. Who did the Nets go when the game was on the line...VC . What having him does is add that other option when the game is on the line that wasnt there. That'll either free up LeBron for more opportunities at the end, or give him a legit option to hit that game winner.

I mean...VC truly isnt what he was. But what he still is...and can be when he's healthy and into the game is better than the Cavs have gotten from the SG spot in quite some time.

the new role thing...i agree, he may not be able to handle it. But...stranger things have happened. AI left the limelight when he went to Denver...Michael Finley accepted a menial role in SA for a championship. Sheed took a different role in Detroit to get a ring. People can change...ya never know

Looks like we also had interest in acquiring Richard Jefferson, Mike Miller (still may pursue Miller) and have continued interest in Baron Davis according to Terry Pluto...

ABOUT THE CAVS...

The Cavs are working very hard at making a trade for someone who can help LeBron James with scoring. Forget Milwaukee guard Michael Redd. By trading with New Jersey for forward Richard Jefferson, new Milwaukee General Manager John Hammond served notice that he wants to win now. He plans to keep guard Mo Williams, Jefferson and Redd together — hoping to get the nearly comatose franchise and sleeping fans into the playoffs.

The Cavs will continue to pursue guard Baron Davis, who has one year and about $18 million left on his contract with Golden State. He can opt out, but he really wants an extension. The Warriors do not seem interested, as they appear to be on a rebuilding program with guard Monta Ellis, forward Brandan Wright, center Andris Biedrins and others — many under 25. They drafted 18-year-old forward Anthony Randolph, and supposedly want to deal for a young big man. How about Cavs forward Anderson Varejao and some expiring contracts for Davis? While Davis played all 82 games, the Cavs have to make sure his health is OK, as he has a history of knee and back problems.

Yes, the Cavs did try to get Jefferson. Apparently, New Jersey Nets General Manager Rod Thorn is quite taken with Yi Jianlian, the Chinese big man and top pick by the Bucks in 2007. He also may be worried that Varejao can become a free agent next summer, and his agent [Dan Fegan] can be a very tough negotiator when his client is an unrestricted free agent. In fact, the combination of Fegan and possible unrestricted free agency in 2009 (along with Varejao needing to approve any trade) does complicate matters for the Cavs. A team may have to work out an extension with Varejao before making a deal.

As part of the O.J. Mayo deal sending the guard from Minnesota to Memphis, the Timberwolves acquired Mike Miller. The Cavs also had been talking to Memphis about the 6-7 forward/shooting guard, and they may continue those talks with Minnesota. They like his outside shooting. Miller averaged 16.4 points, shot 50 percent from the field, 43 percent on 3-pointers and grabbed 6.7 rebounds last season. He is 28 and in his prime.

On Mike Brown’s off-season wish list was a big man with some low-post scoring ability. That’s why the Cavs were very happy with No. 19 pick J.J. Hickson. The 6-9 freshman from North Carolina State might have been a lottery pick had he remained in school another year. Being only 19 and not especially polished dropped him into the lower part of the first round. But he did average 8.5 rebounds, ranking second in the Atlantic Coast Conference.

That is impressive for a freshman. He also scored nearly 15 points per game, shooting 59 percent from the field.

At a muscular 242 pounds, Hickson likes to post up near the basket. He makes himself into a wide target. His hands are sure enough to catch passes in traffic, and he does have the strength and moves to overpower many players inside. Many young big men want to dribble and shoot outside, Hickson is more of an old-fashioned back-to-the-basket big man, something the Cavs need. He does have a decent 10-15 foot jumper and shot 68 percent at the foul line, so he’s not hopeless on the perimeter. But his real game is inside.

The problem is with Hickson being young, and even with ACC experience, the NBA will be a shock to him. The goal not only is that he’ll average 10-14 points in a few years, but as a rookie will be able to come off the bench and compete with some effectiveness against opposing reserves. He’s not a developmental player like second-rounder Sasha Kaun, the 7-footer expected to play in Europe this season. But it would be unfair to expect big things from Hickson as a rookie.

The last N.C. State product the Cavs had was forward Cedric Simmons, who was traded to Chicago in the Larry Hughes deal in February. The Cavs say Simmons was more of a shot-blocker, not much on offense. He was the No. 15 pick of the 2006 draft by New Orleans, the Cavs sending guard David Wesley to the New Orleans Hornets for him. A warning sign on the 6-10 Simmons was that during two years in college, he averaged only 6.3 rebounds with an 11.8 scoring average. Hickson did far more in his only season at N.C. State.

The Cavs’ other second-rounder was Darnell Jackson from Kansas, whom one scout described as “a poor man’s Charles Oakley.” He made third-team All-Big 12 for the national champs, averaging 11.2 points and 6.7 rebounds. The 6-8, 250-pounder is another big man for depth. He did play four years at Kansas, but didn’t start until his senior season. Hard to know what to expect from him, other than a player who is said to have good character and works hard on defense.

Watch what happens in Chicago, where the Bulls were loaded with guards before drafting Derrick Rose out of Memphis. They have Hughes and his massive contract. They have Luol Deng and Ben Gordon, both restricted free agents. They have Thabo Sefolosha and Kirk Hinrich, whom the Cavs like. Someone has to get traded, and the Cavs did work the massive Wallace-Hughes-Drew Gooden etc. deal with Chicago.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf...&thispage=2

Hinrich or Davis would instatntly make this team better IMO.

vince carter is garbage...

remember when he got dealt to the nets, all the experts were claiming them to be a championship level team

they weren't even a threat in the eastern conference...

i'm really glad we didn't trade wally's expiring deal for 4 years of vince carter...

and lolz @ vc bringing exposure and ticket sales...

the cavs are among the best in attendance, and i believe they were top 2, or 3 in nationally televised games

as a gm, you don't bring in guys for publicity... especially when you're a team as close to a championship as the cavs are...

i know everyone is talking about these possible deals, but i really don't see anything happening until after this year starts, and certain teams fall below .500 and start looking at the future...

if milwaukee struggles with jefferson, i could see redd being dealt... you could definitely see brand being dealt as he could potentially leave after this year anyways...

i still think that tracy mcgrady could force a trade... they've sputtered in the playoffs.. and with the west being as competitive as it is... they could easily fall out of contention, and they may start looking to build for the future... i think he's probably the least likely of all the guys who could be sent off... i think he suits the cavs best, better than redd or brand, because he's the most dynamic player of the 3... and forget his struggles in the playoffs... his numbers have been great, and we all know that he won't have to carry the cavs...

although he's probably not high on anyone's wish list, you do have to consider allen iverson a possibility... but at 19m, and expiring after next season, the nuggets would probably want expiring contracts back...

how about going after andre miller too? he could be the second trade... his contract is also expiring... teams just seem to get better when he comes to them...

I would be targeting the bobcats to look for a trade. they have a lot of nice pieces, but havn't been able to make it work. now with coach brown in town, they may trade a few starters away. they even drafted augustin, so that could open the door for felton to be traded. I would take andre miller over him, however. the guy I think the cavs should target is jason richardson. if they went after carter, they should go after jay rich as well. he's younger, way athletic, and shot 40% from 3 point terriotory. after Baron and redd, richardson would be third on the list.imagine him and lebron in the open court? I would be all for that.

here's an article i read.

I was all for the Charlotte Bobcats hiring Larry Brown, and still am, but this past week made something abundantly clear:

Three coaches in three seasons make it hard to draw a straight line to the playoffs.

Change was unavoidable. Bernie Bickerstaff wanted off the bench (contrary to public perception, Bickerstaff asked for a front office-only role; it wasn't a demotion). Sam Vincent had to go, after his interpersonal skills and in-game decisions became a drag on the players.

Brown was the best coach available, but know this: Three contrasting visions of this roster have caused hiccups along the way.

Vincent didn't like Walter Herrmann's game, so the guy went from a revelation one season to a barnacle the next. Now Brown is assessing what he likes and doesn't like among the Bobcats' various veterans. It's inevitable more change is coming.

Thursday felt like the flash point for that change. They traded for an extra first-round pick and were active in trade discussions involving their veterans. Gerald Wallace could have ended up in Toronto, and anyone who thinks Wallace was the only Bobcat in play the past two weeks is beyond naïve.

I'd bet even money that one of the five starters from late last season – Wallace, Jason Richardson, Raymond Felton, Emeka Okafor or Nazr Mohammed – is not on this team by next winter's trade deadline.

New coaches mean new players, and Brown has never been reluctant to ask for roster tinkers.

Nothing wrong with that, either. Coaches need players who fit the system they install. Players who'd excel in Phoenix's up-tempo style might not work in Detroit's deliberate, defensive approach.

But remaking a roster sets you back, and don't be surprised if that's applicable here. The Bobcats got younger when they added first-round picks D.J. Augustin and Alexis Ajinca.

Augustin should be ready for the rotation next season as a point guard, but it's no given that 7-foot Ajinca, a 20-year-old French pro, will contribute soon.

All that collides with the economic imperative here: The Bobcats need to make the playoffs now.

Vincent was almost too candid in acknowledging that. I suspect his statement – that he'd be “discouraged and disappointed” if his team missed the playoffs – was an admission his job security hinged on a quick fix.

Brown's grand resume – the man did win titles in the NBA and the NCAA – grants him more time to fix things. But it wouldn't be wise to test the public's patience.

Attendance has never been great here and there's obviously an urgency to renew luxury-suite leases. Primary owner Bob Johnson trying to guilt the local business community into buying his product reflects how many millions have been lost already in this start-up.

The typical NBA expansion team reaches the playoffs in five seasons. Season five starts in November.

Hear that clock ticking?

http://www.charlotte.com/sports_breaking/story/691252.html