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By doing so you are showing your lack of understanding of what life is.
Knowledge, of any type no matter how arbitrary one thinks it is, is always power. Being able to converse and share knowledge and insight into anything is something to be proud of.
To be honest, life is what you make of it, and what you want out of it. To you, arbitrary matters like movie/story evaluation is something that is a waste of time. It can't help you get a job, so why do it. To someone else, talking on Dawgtalkers is a waste of time. Not everything in life should relate back to job seeking, or the job itself.
There are no sacred cows.
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Maybe I'm just not a deep thinker. 
That explains it! 
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Legend
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LOL. I love movies. I can get as involved watching them as anyone. Just like books. I can see what the author, screenwriter, director, or actor is trying to portray, or my perception of it and think about it's meaning and what it may be trying to say, or what emotions it may be trying to invoke. I just don't act like it's rocket science or has some great effect on the world. 
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I just don't act like it's rocket science or has some great effect on the world.
This has no effect on the world, but makes you think of the movie world.
Love this movie.
you had a good run Hank.
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Legend
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Two and a half stars IMO. I think this film is a good example of the hype getting to people.
I felt the same way about Pixar's Wall-E. People have that rated on imdb as the #22 movie of all time. I went and saw it a week or two ago, and by Pixar standards, it was awful.
Maybe the movie industry has generated such junk for the past few years, that when they finally release a decent movie, everyone thinks it's the best of all time ... just because it's so much better than the rest of the crap out in theaters. 
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Legend
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I think that's exactly the case.
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Legend
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By the way, have you seen Wall-E? I could almost start a new thread about this. BIG-time let let down considering the hype it was getting.
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Legend
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No, but I heard some guy say it was the best movie he'd ever seen (kind of like we are seeing in this thread), and then a bunch of people went off on him about how bad it was.
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If its not Jack Nicholson as the Joker, it is second rate.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I just now read this thread and it is more comical than a comic book. 
I love when people get this overdramatic and analytical about a super hero movie. Fun stuff.
Maybe I'm just not a deep thinker.
As much as we have bickered in the past Jules we think a lot a lot alike, it was a freaking comic book movie and OLE Ammo has it right next to Dr Zhivago(which of course I have never seen). The hype will die down in a few weeks and they will throw this right on the pile with the rest slated for cable.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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If its not Jack Nicholson as the Joker, it is second rate.
KING
Let me put it to you this way...
Jack Nicholson talked about dancing with the devil in the pale moonlight.
Heath Ledger not only danced with that devil, he "put a smile on his face" when he was finished. (a "smile" in the context of TDK)
it was absolutely Oscarworthy, and one of those performances people will talk about for years to come. That's not a knock on Nicholson either, cuz the guy's obviously an elite actor, he just wasn't given anywhere near the source material Ledger was given.
While I'm at it, I absolutely HATE the term "comic book movie." It sounds so judgmental and presumptuous, like the genre is substandard or something.
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You know it may be just a "comic book movie" but it may also have an Elite Director, An Elite writer, and an Elite Cast of actors. Seriously, if you haven't seen Memento get your hands on it. If you haven't seen the Machinist, get your hands on it, if you haven't seen The Prestige, get your hands on it.
It's not like they don't know how to put a movie together. It's not like it was left up to some schmuck. It may be a Comic book movie, but these people are possibly some of the best in the business.
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Legend
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LOL you're completely sidestepping the point and are simply in attack mode.
On the "attack" mode thing, you probably are right. My apologies for the TONE of my post. I could have conveyed the same meaning using different language - but I still agree with my point.
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Again...we spend years in school analyzing literature...why shouldn't we be encourage to analyze good film? Why shouldn't Citizen Kane and the Godfather be analyzed right there with Shakespeare? And I'm almost positive TDK will be right up there when the smoke clears in terms of significance in its contribution to the art of film, afterall this isn't even close to the Batman movies I'm sure you're thinking of, this one has much more layers of depth in it because the writers and director remained true to the source material and paid it respect. Are we not supposed to study and appreciate the arts?
Study and appreciate them all you want. Are you a performing arts major? A theater arts major? If not, disecting this movie will get you exactly no where. But, have at it. I'm sure it's one of the best movies ever.
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Sorry to break it to ya, but I've never taken a class on cartoons. Film and graphic novels? Yes.
So, use a fancy name and it makes it better? I remember a thread where you were talking about studying your comic books and cartoons for class. Call it what you want, I'll call it what it is. (after all, I don't know of any college that would offer a class in "cartoon studies", but I know of many that would change the name to...........Golly, you beat me to it - something like "film and graphic novels".
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But I can tell you without even taking a class on cartoons that the good ones (Simpsons, South Park) are rich in philosophy, social commentary and satire. They don't "rot your brain" like people say the "idiot box" does.
Says who? Your prof? 90% of tv shows rot your brain, AND your body. And if "pondering the meaning of life" through a cartoon study is someones idea of "thought", have at it. I'm not stopping anyone. I'm just stating my opinion.
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You simply just don't understand, and that's ok because many have a hard time wrapping the concept of film and television being part of the arts because its relatively new. Hell, in ancient civilizations, reading and writing we frowned upon because it was seen as "weakness for the brain because it hindered memorization...and that the truly intelligent memorized things."
Neat.
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We're in the "form vs. content" debate now. You're criticizing the content based on the form (film) when you won't even be willing to view the content because of the form.
No, we're really not in the form vs. content debate. Bet you thought throwing that out there would make you look good. What we're discussing is a movie. Not even a movie based on fact. It's a made up fantasy. To analyze that looking for a statement on society is just something to do to attempt to look intelligent. If you like the movie, great. I'm glad people can afford to go to movies. I'm glad the company can spend $175 million to make it, or whatever the total was.
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It's important to have an open mind in life...otherwise we end up hating and fearing things we don't understand.
What?????? An open mind about batman? Come on man, it's statements like that that are the basis for my even entering this thread.
I do not have to fear that which I don't understand. And further more, I understand batman just fine. He saves people from bad people. Doesn't matter how bright and colorful the screen is, doesn't matter what terminology/accent/gore/ is used. Casting is casting, acting is acting.
Do people really, honestly think the writers, directors, crew, actors etc, were trying to make a "deeper" statement with this movie, or any movie? No. They are trying to make a buck. There is no hidden meaning in a movie like this. Now, in Michael Moore's movies, there's a meaning, and even HE doesn't hide it.
Watch the movie. LIke it, great. Don't like it, great.
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arch,
you made good points there. it's not like batman is based on a semi-true story, say, like Good Morning Vietnam or something like that happened in real life. I think the TDK hype has gone over the top.
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Legend
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Again...we spend years in school analyzing literature...why shouldn't we be encourage to analyze good film? Why shouldn't Citizen Kane and the Godfather be analyzed right there with Shakespeare? And I'm almost positive TDK will be right up there when the smoke clears in terms of significance in its contribution to the art of film
TDK will be right up there with Shakespeare, "The Godfather" and "Citizen Kane", huh? 
Dude, it's a slickly written popcorn flick. It's not very intelligent. It's above average, and average is near retarded. For crying out loud, the single most important factor in a Batman film, is not present in this film. Bale is AWFUL. He's entirely incapable of conveying the brooding pain and juxtapositions within the character. The writing is clever...but not that clever. They attempt to throw these foreshadowing remarks at you that are transparent the first time around...good foreshadowing isn't supposed to be that transparent. It's not even the best "Batman" movie...and you're comparing it to landmarks of cinema?
If you took the exact same script, and made this film without Ledger, it would be another in a long time of tedious and mediocre Batman films. As it stands with Ledger, it's a decent action film that tries harder than most, worthy of a pleasurable summer evening. Ledger's performance is noteworthy and will be remembered...outside of that, it's nothing special.
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What we're discussing is a movie. Not even a movie based on fact. It's a made up fantasy. To analyze that looking for a statement on society is just something to do to attempt to look intelligent.
It most certainly isn't. Art provides us with a lens that can show us things we are often incapable of seeing in our own lives.
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Do people really, honestly think the writers, directors, crew, actors etc, were trying to make a "deeper" statement with this movie, or any movie? No. They are trying to make a buck.
While they were making a buck, they took they time to attempt an 'artful' film. Juxtaposing complex issues, using methods of metaphor and foreshadowing...thing is, it's not all that artful. It's an attempt, and not a very good one, although it's hard to attempt anything artful when the big bucks are involved. It's geared towards those who have a film class or two under their belt and are susceptible to mass marketing campaigns.
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too funny, JulesDawg. my only problem with the dark knight hype is that people are so pumped to see it now--instead of waiting for it to come out on DVD or something like that. it may be good or it may be overhyped--but this is a craze a lot like the iPhone deal that happened last year. It's just crazy.
How hyped are people to see it?
Man arrested in movie theater after leaving child in car
July 21st, 2008 @ 10:00pm
Team coverage
A Salt Lake audience was engrossed in the new action-packed Batman movie when it was interrupted. Police stopped the film to arrest a father who was watching the movie while his child sat in a locked car in the Century 16 theater parking lot.
It was almost 2 a.m. Sunday when the 2-year-old boy was finally rescued from the car. The temperature inside was 87 degrees, but that wasn't the only threat facing him.
While 23-year-old David Farnham was enjoying the 11:30 p.m. showing of "The Dark Knight" inside an air-conditioned theater at Century 16 Saturday night, his 2-year-old son, Justin, was all alone in a hot car, surrounded by signs that warn patrons to park at their own risk.
South Salt Lake police say Justin had been in the car for more than two hours when other movie goers noticed the child and called for help.
"The child was in the car, sweating profusely and crying," said South Salt Lake police officer Gary Keller. "With the assistance of our fire department, we entered the car and got the child out of the car."
The toddler was dehydrated and thirsty from being locked inside the 87-degree car with the windows rolled up, but he was in relatively good condition.
Police say it could have ended a lot worse. "Especially a 2-year-old; they can dehydrate very, very quickly. You just never want to leave your child in the car ever, ever," Keller said.
Farnham, who has no prior criminal history, missed the last 10 minutes of the movie, and there was a slight interruption for everyone else when officers turned up the lights and arrested him inside the theater.
Movie goer Katty Zlochevsky said, "About the last 10 minutes, all of a sudden the screen turned off and everyone freaked out."
"Two cops came up with what looked like two managers," she explained.
With the movie off and the lights on, the officers told the packed crowd they were looking for Farnham. Then they told the crowd why.
"In regards to the baby left in the car," Zlochevsky said. "Then everyone kind of gasped."
"We all looked to see where he was, and he stood up and went down the stairs. And then people kind of threw stuff and started booing, and no one knew what to do," she said.
Farnham was taken away, and the last 10 minutes of the movie continued.
He was booked into the Salt Lake County Jail on charges of child abuse and child neglect.
Justin is now with his mother, who shares custody. She told Eyewitness News over the phone that he's doing well and that she's grateful it didn't end differently.
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yebat' Putin
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What we're discussing is a movie. Not even a movie based on fact. It's a made up fantasy. To analyze that looking for a statement on society is just something to do to attempt to look intelligent.
It most certainly isn't. Art provides us with a lens that can show us things we are often incapable of seeing in our own lives.
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Do people really, honestly think the writers, directors, crew, actors etc, were trying to make a "deeper" statement with this movie, or any movie? No. They are trying to make a buck.
While they were making a buck, they took they time to attempt an 'artful' film. Juxtaposing complex issues, using methods of metaphor and foreshadowing...thing is, it's not all that artful. It's an attempt, and not a very good one, although it's hard to attempt anything artful when the big bucks are involved. It's geared towards those who have a film class or two under their belt and are susceptible to mass marketing campaigns.
Kinda like my "fine arts" prof did when I was in college? He demanded that we interpret classical music into words - based on what the notes were telling us. Funny thing is, none of us were right - we found out after a 1 hour lecture on what Brahms was saying through his notes (musical notes, mind you) that it was some deep, hyper intellectual smack down of society at that point in time. Hey, it's gotta be true - my prof said so. 
To me, Brahms, Mozart....whoever - even todays artists (Kenny Chesney included)....they write and sing what sounds good to them. There's no hidden meaning that needs to be searched for.
Maybe you and I just disagree. "Arts" - painters for instance - heck, they paint something. Those that study it trying to decipher the "true meaning of the piece" are, in my opinion, ,uppity snobs, trying to look intelligent. Just like my prof in college (and it was a required course)
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I've never seen Brahms, Mozart and Kenny Chesney in the same sentence before.  I'm pretty sure I can interpret most of Kenny's songs... get drunk, hang out at the beach, remember your hometown fondly, and chase good looking women... as for Brahms and Mozart, my guess is they weren't thinking about those things because most of their music is depressing.
yebat' Putin
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See? That's why I like Kenny!! Good interpretation. And you didn't even have a class in "rural music appreciation", did you?
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And you didn't even have a class in "rural music appreciation", did you?
I'm self-taught.
yebat' Putin
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phildawsonrocks said-- It's geared towards those who have a film class or two under their belt and are susceptible to mass marketing campaigns. asiandawg said-- which would be kind of funny, considering some of the college students I know that love the film are communications majors (ahem) and of all people should know that Batman's not a really deep film instead of overanalyzing it and making it sound like 'Godfather' 'It's a Wonderful Life' or some classic like that. the poster in question (ammo), of all people, should be the first person to say, 'it's not really that deep of a movie--it's an above-average flick with some interesting ideas and it's fun to watch. but it's nothing mind-blowing.' if ammo was like a chem or bio major or someone not in communications he could go wordy-analytical on us and that'd be somewhat excuseable. 
Last edited by AsianDawg; 07/23/08 10:10 PM.
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the poster in question (ammo), of all people, should be the first person to say, 'it's not really that deep of a movie--it's an above-average flick with some interesting ideas and it's fun to watch. but it's nothing mind-blowing.'
Coming from someone who hasn't seen the movie. At least Phil has even though I completely disagree with his opinion. (IMO the Nolan films absolutely abuse the Burton films...I hadn't watched the Burton films in years and they were virtually unwatchable after watching Batman Begins).
I'm telling you, it really IS that deep of a movie. Rotten Tomatoes has it rated at 95%...that's ridiculously hard to accomplish. The negative reviews I've read (all 12 of them) all say "the film takes itself too seriously, trying to be philosophical when it's a superhero movie." aka the idiot critics don't understand the true depth of the Batman mythos.
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OK...I finally saw it last night.
Firstly, I thought it was very good. Heath Ledger did do a great job as the joker. I just thought he could've laughed a little more. But he was truly psychotic.
My biggest beef is it was just too damn long.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Rotten Tomatoes has it rated at 95%...that's ridiculously hard to accomplish.
Well, there you have it - rotten tomatos has it rated 95%. End of discussion.
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The negative reviews I've read (all 12 of them) all say "the film takes itself too seriously, trying to be philosophical when it's a superhero movie." aka the idiot critics don't understand the true depth of the Batman mythos.
The batman mythos????? That's just too precious to let go without highlighting it.
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yeah, go bat, yeah, go bat, watchout titanic the bats coming after you, yeah. im sorry no i havent seen it yet
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My biggest beef is it was just too damn long.
Why is everyone complaining about this? Is the attention span of people that short that they can't sit through a 2.5 hour movie?
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My biggest beef is it was just too damn long.
Why is everyone complaining about this? Is the attention span of people that short that they can't sit through a 2.5 hour movie?
Amen. I thought the movie was about to be over an hour and a half into it because of what was going on at the time. I'm glad it kept going or I would've been very disappointed. It was a great film and I actually like the fact it was 150 minutes long. You couldn't have done that movie right in an hour and half IMO.
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You change the thread title to "TDK sets opening weekend record!" and then later to some drivel about it gunning for Titanic. From the article you posted yourself: Factoring in higher admission prices, however, "Spider-Man 3" may have sold slightly more tickets than "The Dark Knight."
At 2007's average price of $6.88, "Spider-Man 3" sold 21.96 million tickets over opening weekend. Box office tracker Media By Numbers estimates today's average movie prices at $7.08, which means "The Dark Knight" would have sold 21.94 million tickets.It was hyped more, the tickets cost more, and more people are interested due to Heath Ledger killing himself...... Titanic is currently rated the number one grossing movie of all time because movie tickets cost more in 1997 when it was released then they did in 1977 when Star Wars (at number 2) was released. If and when "TDK" surpasses Titanic it will be because of the prices, definitely not because it was a better flick...
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BUT...that number was re-adjusted to $158.34 million. Which most certainly means it sold more tickets than Spiderman 3. I'll be honest that Titanic is a stretch because of the market for Titanic at the time (no big movies coming out anywhere near it vs. TDK dealing with summer blockbuster season). It's the fastest movie to $200 million and set the best 8-day run record in 6 days! http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/grossbydays.htm?days=8&p=.htmSome more stuff on TDK: IMDB 115,340 votes: 9.5 #1 All Time Yahoo 29,759 votes: A #1 All Time (The only movie in history that has a clean A grade) BoxofficeMojo: 2876 votes: A #1 All Time (The only movie in history that has a clean A grade) Rotten Tomatoes: 219 Fresh 12 Rotten 95% rating (The movie has the most fresh reviews in the history of Rotten Tomatoes). Shep, next time you try to call me out on something, at least come with your facts straight.
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And shep...Star Wars wouldn't do nearly the numbers it did then in today's box office. Back then there was no home video market or one in its very VERY early stages.
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Shep, next time you try to call me out on something, at least come with your facts straight.
I used your facts.......my bad, should have known better.
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Some more stuff on TDK:
IMDB 115,340 votes: 9.5 #1 All Time
Yahoo 29,759 votes: A #1 All Time (The only movie in history that has a clean A grade)
BoxofficeMojo: 2876 votes: A #1 All Time (The only movie in history that has a clean A grade)
Rotten Tomatoes: 219 Fresh 12 Rotten 95% rating (The movie has the most fresh reviews in the history of Rotten Tomatoes).
for so many reasons.........
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It's the fastest movie to $200 million and set the best 8-day run record in 6 days!
Again........tickets cost more money. Duh.
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Even inflation-adjusted it massacres Pirates 2, Spiderman 2 and Star Wars Episode 3.
In fact, inflation-adjusted it might just hold up against everything.
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Am I the only one that A: Finds this Ammo/Shep repartee hilarious and B: Couldn't care less about the Dark Knight?......... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Am I the only one that A: Finds this Ammo/Shep repartee hilarious and B: Couldn't care less about the Dark Knight?.........
A.) Completely agree, though I've come to expect attacks on anything Ammo says. This is no surprise.
B.) Nah, The Dark Knight is dope.
Wise words spoken by sages
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...Star Wars wouldn't do nearly the numbers it did then in today's box office. Back then there was no home video market or one in its very VERY early stages.
No movie will ever top what star wars did for the movie going public, or even a movie like Psycho. (people being taken away in ambulances) I dont think a lack of VCR's had much to do with what Star Wars did.
Those movies were way ahead of their time.
Not referring to you, but since when is a 2.5 hr movie long? Personally it would be hard for me to consider a movie today great, unless it was longer than 2 hours.
Just shows you how crappy movies have become, people expect movies to be 90 minutes long 
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367 |
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Am I the only one that A: Finds this Ammo/Shep repartee hilarious and B: Couldn't care less about the Dark Knight?.........
A.) Completely agree, though I've come to expect attacks on anything Ammo says. This is no surprise.
Given the things he types, I completely concur.
You also forgot to mention that following these back and forths come his little supporters to whine about the discussions.
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