DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Interview Knapp for OC

I guess we can continue singing the OL tune. I really hope we get it right this year.

Then I look at the Saints who changed 4 OL, lost their best lineman and perrennial Pro Bowler to FA (who blew his knee...we all know who he is).

Got a new QB, rookie wideout (7th rounder), new RB/receiver. They're the #1 offense in the NFL.

Sometimes I think continuity is overrated. It's important, but the bottom line is talent. Charlie Frye will not magically improve if he hasn't improved in one game yet. He's still as bad as the rookie he was in '05.

I thought only 2 guys were fried pre-maturely ...

1. Chris Palmer .. he was NEVER GIVEN A CHANCE ... but then again the day we hired him I said hes just here to help groom the QB we draft ... and he will be gone sooner rather than later .. but the fact of the matter is he was never given a chance ..

and he has since proved he was in way over his head ...

2. Mo ... he to should have been given more time ... but since he has left and we find out what a control freak he was and the players didnt respect him (i could care less if they like him .. thats way overrated and a negative most of the time) .. he should have been canned ....

as for the Opie/Daman thing last year .. it worked out best .. and if Lerner does allow the fans/media to influence his decision .. hes a MORON .. and were DOOMED .. I have not seen that to be the case as of yet ... i think your being way to PREMATURE ...

and i agree in continuity in coaching but if the coaches have proven they cant do the job .. get rid of them (bOtch is a PERFECT EXAMPLE .. he had to go .. he SUCKED and was in way over his head ...U disagree but he was HORRIBLE ... he couldn't evaluate talent worth crap .. he was a HORRIBLE game day coach .. and he LIED THROUGH his teeth to his players and everyone else .. NO ONE RESPECTED this piece of crap .. ) ...

its funny how u want to give the coaches all the time in the world yet after 3 short years your ready to throw Lerner to the curb .. i find that very odd ..

The first reply is to Vers- I agree that you need to build a successful team thru the draft. Palmer and Butch thought so they just had horrible drafts.

Diam
I dont think Palmer had a chance since day one. We all know the story on how they were doomed with not having much time to put a team together. Other then Marvin Lewis, I cant recall too many coaches wanting to coach this start up team. Palmer had strong refrences from Parcells. He was way in over his head.

I never liked Mo and was hoping his coaching interviews last year was because the teams wanted to hire him and not just to bring in a minority coach because of league rules.

Does Lerner care enough to let anything influence him? There can be a strong case of Opie being kept because of fan support. When we all heard Opie was getting fired, there was more people on these message boards calling for Collins, then there would be if it was Superbowl week and the Browns were favored.

Butch could not evaluate talent or manage a team for crap. Nobody on any level trusted him from the fans to the media and from the trainers to the players and any NFL team executive. I do think he was a good gameday coach. I remember how Jamir Miller was giving him props for being a great motivator. He also had great specail teams in Cleveland and Miami. He couldnt manage his coaching squad either. After the fall to Pittsburgh in the playoffs he got rid Arains who had the Browns best offense since return (I did want a offense that had a fullback and one that had the QB sneak in the playbook). Then he hires Robiskie who only had a playbook designed for Winslow. Didnt Butch fire Fazio also? Butch couldnt juggle his coaching staff when he had a good one and the juggled his thoughts too much on gameday. He needed a GM bad but his ego wouldnt admit that.

Just a general reply.

WCO I can take it or leave it but I just want to see some type of idenity with this offense. The mix bag of tricks crap has only shown we cant do anything well.

Now the only positive I see in staying the course with Romeo is McFadden next year lol.

Promoting from within? I could go with that if one unit on our team actually performed well. Hmm well TE's were outstanding the last 2 years and we fired the TE coach sooo lol.

Phil it aint to late dump the fat man on the sideline. Rex Ryan <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Kind of funny that you mention this in the context that you did. Given that the FA QB that the Saints brought in, did the very same thing 2 years before, magically improved in between his 3rd and 4th seasons (his 2nd and 3rd years starting) despite showing absolutely no improvement in years before that. (And on a much better team than Frye is on btw.)

~Lyuokdea

[color:"red"]"WCO isn't the philosophy of the offense so much as it is the terminology."

[color:"orange"]??? Sorry I ain't buying <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> It most definately is a "SYSTEM"

The terminology or "language" is not what makes the WCO...sorry your answer is unacceptable.

here: I mind is a terrible thing to waste.
http://football.calsci.com/WCOHistory3.html
read and learn something about the WCO.
Walsh btw evolved this offense over the years. There is a definate "System" it goes into the ideal WR, TE, OL, OT, etc.

I think most NFL offenses have evolved and intergrated the WCO into their "SYSTEMS" not as Terminlogy as you suggest but as in the System.

Read it...how come every team looks for the athletic pass catching YAC TE nowadays as opposed to the Thick Girth blocking TE.

here is another excerpt regarding the OTs in this offense:

[color:"white"]"In this offense the offensive tackle must be able to adapt to a situation where a linebacker blitzes from the outside and the defender he was expecting to block drops back into pass coverage. This happens often within the offense, again because of the short controlled passing game. As a result, the offensive tackle must be sharp enough to quickly identify the scenario and be able to move and adjust to the circumstances as needed. He must also be extremely well versed and prepared in the skills and the techniques required to handle a variety of situations."

[color:"orange"]Well gee...every team now Zone blitzes...cause every team including us looks for that short controlled passing game...

You tell me the Colts don't run a WCO...and yet that is exactly what they ran - now the last two years they went into some no-huddle new EVOLVING style that more teams will copy and add to their variations. But the Colts under Moore ran a 2 TE WCO...when you tell me their offense is WCO based you simply are wrong.

Any way read this and learn about the WCO that you don't know. And come to an understanding the NFL offenses have evolved in some variation of the WCO and its always forever changing cause defenses keep devising schemes to defend against it.

So the word WCO doesn't really scare me as a big time change in what we are or have been doing.

Actually the Bill Walsh WCO traditionally is dificult cause it involves a lot of reads by both the WR n QBs and it takes time to get it down...you know like the reads Peyton n his WRs do (Colts don't run WCO <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> ). I believe many coaches have dummy downed this variation to have it evolve into one that can be learned faster as the NFL has changed since Walsh...teams change n move personnell more making it hard to keep the unity needed to run his offense of 20 years ago.

JMHO

So, if the Browns do decide to go to the WCO, Tucker will not fit the criteria. He cannot drop back into pass coverage against the blitzing LB, is not sharp enough to adjust,and not well versed and prepared in the skills required to handle a variety of situations. The only think Tucker had going for him is that he is a decent run blocker and that he was the only lineman to play in all 16 games one season.

[color:"red"]"So, if the Browns do decide to go to the WCO, Tucker will not fit the criteria. He cannot drop back into pass coverage"

[color:"orange"]I don't think you will see any of our OTs dropping back into pass coverage...lol <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Tucker can drop back to pass block as well as any RT we have had....quite frankly I don't think we can count on Tucker at all. That is why we draft Joe Thomas and Shaffer is moving to RT not Tucker. Shaffer was adequate at best as a LT but would be pretty good-above avg. compared with other RTs regarding pass blocking.

Tell me one report advising us when Tucker will be back? We will support him as a team but his job...we have to move on. The mind is not an exact science in terms of recovery. This is a business. We will move on with commitments either in the draft or FA.

If Tucker comes back we will let him compete with the RG spot.
JMHO

[color:"white"]

Yet if the coaches suck, and many of our coaches have in fact SUCKED, no amount of continuity will lead to success.

Vers always blasts the organization for firing coaches but never lays the blame ON the coaches when they obviously aren't qualified.

Now if Vers wants to blame the FO for hiring the wrong coaches, I'm on board with it, but this selective finger-pointing is a load. [/color]

Tell me one report advising us when Tucker will be back?

Here you go <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Browns right tackle Ryan Tucker has informed head coach Romeo Crennel that he plans to play football again in 2007.

Cleveland signed Kelly Butler to a two-year extension as insurance for Tucker, who has been dealing with a reported mental disorder.

Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer

Hmmm interesting..hope his doctors have this situation under control.

[color:"red"]"Browns right tackle Ryan Tucker has informed head coach Romeo Crennel that he plans to play football again in 2007."

[color:"orange"]Thats what he plans...don't mean we are. That tells me he plans on trying to collect his paycheck. I feel bad for Tuck...wanted to say something funny about this but couldn't bring myself to it. I just don't think we are going to "PLAN" on having him back. We will go on with plan "B" whether that means upgrade...I don't know. Shaffer there??? Butler was signed as a back up and we already are putting plan B in place not as a starter but recognizing that Tucker won't be with us. Rather than be surprised if he isn't.
JMHO

I hope our offseason plans have him not returning no matter what is being said behind closed doors. If he does, then that's just icing on the cake.