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Borowski designated for assignment Indians to go with closer-by-committee in wake of decision By Anthony Castrovince / MLB.com CLEVELAND -- The Joe Borowski era has ended for the Indians. Looking to repair their battered bullpen and get a better read on what the future holds, the Indians designated the veteran Borowski for assignment on Friday. The club also designated seldom-used right-hander Rick Bauer, making room for Jensen Lewis and Brian Slocum to make their returns from Triple-A Buffalo. Borowski had been the Indians' closer since the beginning of the 2007 season. He saved an AL-leading 45 games last year, despite a 5.07 ERA. It was the highest ERA in history for a league's saves leader. This season, Borowski began the year pitching through a right triceps strain and blew two of his first four save opportunities. He went on the disabled list from mid-April to late May before rejoining the club. On the year, he was 1-3 with a 7.56 ERA and 6-of-10 in save situations. The Indians are expected to go with a closer-by-committee situation, now that Borowski is ousted. Right-hander Masa Kobayashi might get the first crack at save opportunities. Manager Eric Wedge will address the situation when he meets with reporters before Friday's game in Minnesota. Lewis, who was a key contributer in last year's bullpen and on the Opening Day roster, is returning after a five-week stint at Buffalo where he worked to get his command and velocity back in order. He went 1-2 with a 3.60 ERA in 11 appearances out of the Bisons' bullpen. Slocum was converted from starting to relief work in early June. He made seven appearances out of the Buffalo 'pen, going 0-1 with a 0.69 ERA. Bauer made just four appearances with the Tribe. He allowed nine runs in six innings of work. http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/ar...sp&c_id=cle
Last edited by DevilDawg; 07/04/08 02:09 PM.
![[Linked Image from media.scout.com]](http://media.scout.com/media/avatars/1/6/GlennChannell.jpg)
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"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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It really does not matter. No matter who they have thrown out there this year they have all sucked. I really hate to say it but it is probably time to try and get something for CC.
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POST DELETED PER FORUM RULES
Last edited by Referee1; 07/05/08 10:17 AM.
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Paper here in Milwaukee said Escobar, Milwaukee's super stud SS prospect is one name being thrown around. This guy's supposed to field like Omar, but hit like Jeter...that would be sweet but I don't see Milwaukee giving him up because they want to move their current SS to 2nd or 3rd and promote this guy. I see them moving LaPorta or Gamel before Escobar, but you never know!
If I'm Milwaukee, it's a no brainer....they need to win this year with Sheets being a free agent and worse comes to worse, they have 5 picks in the 40 in next year's draft
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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good riddance. though its hard to blame the closer when he's never needed, JoBo has pretty much worn out his welcome.
now if they could only cut ties with the people at 3rd, short, 2nd, 1st, and a couple outfielders, we'd have something to cheer about.
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Legend
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I almost shed a tear of joy. Maybe the white sox will sign him and we can get back in this thing! 
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Now I wonder if we should look into the job security of Mark Shapiro.
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Legend
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Borowski was 45 for 50 in save opps last year - that's not bad. You can't blame Shapiro for expecting that, or a reasonable facsimile of that again this year. Who knew his elbow was like overcooked spaghetti, other than him?
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Plus, who else were we going to get for a closer? It's not like there were a ton of closing aces available.
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Quote:
Borowski was 45 for 50 in save opps last year - that's not bad. You can't blame Shapiro for expecting that, or a reasonable facsimile of that again this year. Who knew his elbow was like overcooked spaghetti, other than him?
I remember being a lil upset when they resigned him last year as I'm sure a lot of Tribe fans were. Sure his save stats were pretty damn good, how ever I can recall many of games where he gave up runs and got that save by the skin of his teeth. I am glad the Indians pulled the trigger on this move finally. He isn't the answer and I wish Joe well in life after Cleveland.
Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
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Lewis and Slocum combine to give up 6 runs, Slocums ERA is 54. We lose 12-3. Maybe oh no Joe Bo wasn't as bad as it gets? 
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Good luck to him, who knows how far we would have gotten last year without him.
I want the Cleveland Browns to be my pallbearers so they can let me down for the last time.
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Legend
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I always thought Wickman was hard to watch, but he was lights out compared to JoeBo. You are right - it was excruciating to see him put every game in jeopardy - but 9 times out of 10, he did his job. He was a gutsy pitcher, but when the separation between your fastball and your offspeed stuff is only 3-4 MPH there's no place to hide. That's batting practice for major league hitters.
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All Pro
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IF we Really are throwing in the towel and running up the the White Flag on the season with the purpose of saving $ , (Since IMHO the Dolans will Never open up their wallet even to get us over the hump , regardless of who that player is....) Shapiro should also be up for evaluation and being a team player a reduction in pay....IF he doesn't want to go with that flow than release him as well....
The Mammal
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They need to trade C.C. and use the money they're paying him this year to go after K-Rod...
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
Dawg Talker since 3/26/2005...
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Paper here in Milwaukee said Escobar, Milwaukee's super stud SS prospect is one name being thrown around. This guy's supposed to field like Omar, but hit like Jeter...
a SS that hits like Jeter. How many times have I heard that about a young slimmed down Perrelta?
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Quote:
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Paper here in Milwaukee said Escobar, Milwaukee's super stud SS prospect is one name being thrown around. This guy's supposed to field like Omar, but hit like Jeter...
a SS that hits like Jeter. How many times have I heard that about a young slimmed down Perrelta?
When was Pork Pie Peralta ever "slimmed down"?
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They need to trade C.C. and use the money they're paying him this year to go after K-Rod...
I like your thinking, but I don't think K-Rod gets out of LA. It would be nice.
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all these roster moves and the likely trades of CC, Blake, and Byrd will open up spots for David Huff and Wes Hodges. Maybe we can at least have a reason to watch the remainder of the season to see if these two prospects continue their minor league success into the Majors. I think Hodges is a must to come up because Marte blows and is not the future. However, Huff may be held back in AAA because they have really fast tracked him this year and that is unusual for the Indians.
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CC is currently the highest paid player on the team at 11 million a year.It would be nice to see them sign a position FA that actually helped the team. They've had a few FA pitchers Byrd and Borowski last year who helped but I can't think of anybody else. I'm guessing Dellucci has naked pictures of somebody cuz in my book he's a backup/ triple AAA type outfielder and yet he's the 4th highest paid position player on the team. He's behind only Hafner,Martinez& Blake. What did he ever do? Beside strikeout with men on base I mean.Can't we get a younger cheaper player to do that?  
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Now I wonder if we should look into the job security of Mark Shapiro.
Poster: The Mammal
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Shapiro should also be up for evaluation and being a team player a reduction in pay....IF he doesn't want to go with that flow than release him as well....
You do realize you're talking about the reigning GM of the year (which was his second selection as such by the Sporting News) right? I know this season has been flat out depressing and utterly frustrating... But you're really going to start questioning the job security of one of the most innovative, talented GM's in all of baseball? I suppose it's his fault that every single member of the bullpen is having an atrocious year? The same guys who took us to game 7 of the ALCS not even 9 months ago. It's his fault that his 3 and 4 hitters have been hurt all year and the rest of the lineup isn't even sniffing their performances from last year and their career track records? It's his fault that Fausto and Jake have been out for most of the year and Paul Byrd has pitched god awful for the past month and a half? These are the same pieces that tied for the best record in baseball and were so very close to a World Series berth. I do realize that a terrible year will bring out all the pessimists and cynics but come on. If Indians "fans" are going to start to question Mark Shapiro and try and begin a campaign to run him out of town then I really am at a loss for words. We might as well construct a time machine and go back in time and side with John Collins over Phil Savage. I remember the deep painful feeling I felt the day that that power struggle became public and thinking that if Savage goes then our team is set back another 3-5 years... And that's the least that would happen if Shapiro left the Indians. I know this year sucks and it's not what any of us hoped for but some of us really need to just take a deep breath and calm down.
As for the topic at hand. I think it was obvious to everyone who witnessed JoeBo pitching this year that he wasn't the same. I know so many people love to jump all over him, as they did Wickman, because he didn't win games easily. That concept is completely idiotic to me as a win is a win no matter how easy the ninth inning was, but be that as it may he was an important part of a team that was very special. I certainly agree that his time here has run it's course but I certainly won't curse him. I'll say thanks Joe for last year and I'm sorry that you had to be one of the many cogs in this year's wheel that have just entirely broken apart.
And one last message for you cynics and "the sky is always falling" types of people out there: I know nothing that any management figure in Cleveland ever has done or will do in the future will appease you but try and take a step back and try not to run one of the very best executives in baseball out of town...
Time and change will surely show
How firm thy friendship
O - HI - O
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Quote:
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Now I wonder if we should look into the job security of Mark Shapiro.
Poster: The Mammal
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Shapiro should also be up for evaluation and being a team player a reduction in pay....IF he doesn't want to go with that flow than release him as well....
You do realize you're talking about the reigning GM of the year (which was his second selection as such by the Sporting News) right? I know this season has been flat out depressing and utterly frustrating... But you're really going to start questioning the job security of one of the most innovative, talented GM's in all of baseball? I suppose it's his fault that every single member of the bullpen is having an atrocious year? The same guys who took us to game 7 of the ALCS not even 9 months ago. It's his fault that his 3 and 4 hitters have been hurt all year and the rest of the lineup isn't even sniffing their performances from last year and their career track records? It's his fault that Fausto and Jake have been out for most of the year and Paul Byrd has pitched god awful for the past month and a half? These are the same pieces that tied for the best record in baseball and were so very close to a World Series berth. I do realize that a terrible year will bring out all the pessimists and cynics but come on. If Indians "fans" are going to start to question Mark Shapiro and try and begin a campaign to run him out of town then I really am at a loss for words. We might as well construct a time machine and go back in time and side with John Collins over Phil Savage. I remember the deep painful feeling I felt the day that that power struggle became public and thinking that if Savage goes then our team is set back another 3-5 years... And that's the least that would happen if Shapiro left the Indians. I know this year sucks and it's not what any of us hoped for but some of us really need to just take a deep breath and calm down.
As for the topic at hand. I think it was obvious to everyone who witnessed JoeBo pitching this year that he wasn't the same. I know so many people love to jump all over him, as they did Wickman, because he didn't win games easily. That concept is completely idiotic to me as a win is a win no matter how easy the ninth inning was, but be that as it may he was an important part of a team that was very special. I certainly agree that his time here has run it's course but I certainly won't curse him. I'll say thanks Joe for last year and I'm sorry that you had to be one of the many cogs in this year's wheel that have just entirely broken apart.
And one last message for you cynics and "the sky is always falling" types of people out there: I know nothing that any management figure in Cleveland ever has done or will do in the future will appease you but try and take a step back and try not to run one of the very best executives in baseball out of town...
It's very simple why we should be looking at Shapiro closely, really.
Look at the performance of the players who were supposedly our "core." Remove the Hafner and Martinez injuries from the mix, everyone else is hitting like crap aside from a man named Grady.
We ran Omar out of town because Peralta was supposedly "ready." He had one good year, just one! Now we're ready to ship him out of town. Anyone see this process repeating with Garko, maybe even Cabrera?
I remember people saying Kouzmanoff for Barfield was "brilliant." Which one is actually helping their team right now? I'd love Kouzmanoff's 11 homers.
We went into the season with that God-awful platoon situation in left field when Francisco was CLEARLY ready. (it's moves like this that really make me think fans know more than GM's and managers in SOME cases). Oh and not re-signing Kenny Lofton? Dumb. Yes he's not on any team right now but dammit he was a spark plug last season and created excitement that could be felt in the seats and definitely had an effect on the team.
Completely mishandled the Brandon Phillips situation.
Coco Crisp for Andy Marte? How's that one working out?
And do we have ANYONE in our farm system who can come in with their bat and produce for us? Absolutely not, our farm system is barren right now aside from Adam Chandalier Miller.
We've invested so much in pitching that we have zero offensive prospects.
There is ONE non-pitcher worth keeping on this team (who's healthy, I'm not counting Martinez). That's Grady Sizemore, and even then he's not hitting anywhere close to .300. In fact, we have no one right now who hits in that .300-.320 range.
Did anyone really think Betancourt was going to keep it up? I've never really been a fan of his stuff, it's like he only throws 90 MPH fastballs, I don't see much movement on his pitches. Perez, however, surprised me this year.
I remember people jumped on BrownsFanZ for his opinion on the Indians last season...that we caught lightning in a bottle. I think he was right. The talent on this team is NOT nearly as good as advertised outside of the starting pitching. I saw it last year where we had one guy hitting above .300 and the offense got progressively worse as the year went on.
Whose desk does that stop at? Why, Mark Shapiro and Larry Dolan. We needed to go out there and add to this offense to put us over the top. Would we be where we were last year? Hell no, we'd still be disappointing. But we wouldn't be dreadful. Dolan said he'd go out and spend the money to put us over the top when the time was right. Well, the time was this offseason and we got Jamey freaking Carroll (who's been one of our best players...what does THAT tell you?)
I think it's ironic that injuries hit us hardest at the starting rotation but that's still our biggest strength. And I had a bad feeling going into this season that Byrd was going to stink.
I'm VERY concerned about the future of this team, I don't think we'll simply bounce back. Trading CC makes me sick. We should pony up the bucks to re-sign him AND go out and find a legit 3rd base and right field sluggers. SPEND THE MONEY. Detroit's doing it and they're in a small market so I don't want the small market excuse. Dolans are just being cheap. Like another poster said, I don't want them to lose money or anything, but they need to seriously look at whether or not they can compete financially in baseball the way the economic system is right now.
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They just don't get it Optimist. They are two busy rolling on the ground crying and holding their breath. Dolan is cheap....WAAAAAAHHH Shapiro is dumb...WAAAHHHH Wedge sucks.....WAAAAHHHH Every player we have is bad..... WAAAAHHH I smell some dirty diapers in this thread 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I don't see it as a black-and-white debate. Those who criticize are not necessarily crybabies, nor are those who support them Koolaid drinkers.
IMO, the Indians overrated their team in '08 and assumed an upward curve from their young talent. But experience tells us that MLB is a game of being able to adapt. Example: Jeremy Sowers was great in the 2nd half of '06 and has gotten his lunch ever since. Why? The league adapted to him and so far he hasn't answered by adapting himself. Same with Gutierrez, Garko, Cabrera ... the league has a book on them and they have not yet adapted. We see it time and time again with young players - the so-called "sophomore jinx" is not much more than the league figuring out how to handle you; where the holes in your game are. Shapiro should have realized that and reacted more aggressively last off season, I think. He should have known that some of these young players would have setbacks, and that some of the veterans had career years (Byrd, Borowski) that would most likely not be repeated. Does that mean I thik he should be fired? Absolutely not. I still think, on balance, Shapiro has done a good job especially given the financial constraints of trying to field a competitive team with a low-middle budget.
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I think he should be gone if we don't turn it around next season.
I never said fire him now, I do think his performance should be seriously evaluated though. He got a free pass for a long time because we were rebuilding and our farm system was "stacked." Now we're learning that maybe that stacked farm system wasn't so good afterall.
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I smell some dirty diapers in this thread
That smell is coming from the Tribe.
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Legend
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"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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We ran Omar out of town because Peralta was supposedly "ready." He had one good year, just one! Now we're ready to ship him out of town. Anyone see this process repeating with Garko, maybe even Cabrera?
I'd go so far as to say Peralta is having a pretty fine year this year as well, considering how poor he started off. And if nothing else, he's filled in quite solidly for Hafner and Martinez. If we do end up trading him, it won't be because he's a colossal disappointment, it will be because he actually has value to other teams. It's a compliment to him. His defense has improved since Omar left, he has power, and his average is climbing back up for this particular season. Teams will look at him as an offensive boost at Shortstop.
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I remember people saying Kouzmanoff for Barfield was "brilliant." Which one is actually helping their team right now? I'd love Kouzmanoff's 11 homers.
Who did we have to play 2nd base at that time? Asdrubal was not ready. It was a position of need, and Shapiro traded for a guy who had a damn fine rookie season, and a very good minor league track record. Kouzmanoff was a luxury with a solid player in Blake (And I am far from a Blake fan) and Marte in the waiting. Trading a luxury for a position of desperate need on a team hoping to make the playoffs? I say that's a good trade.
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We went into the season with that God-awful platoon situation in left field when Francisco was CLEARLY ready. (it's moves like this that really make me think fans know more than GM's and managers in SOME cases). Oh and not re-signing Kenny Lofton? Dumb. Yes he's not on any team right now but dammit he was a spark plug last season and created excitement that could be felt in the seats and definitely had an effect on the team.
So you're upset Dellucci went into the season as our starting LF, and I completely agree with you there. You wanted BenFran to start. But you wanted to resign Kenny Lofton? To play where? Fransisco's defense blows in Right, Grady locks up Center, and Lofton is only playing Left and Center. What do you suggest we do? We should have searched for a better LF this year, but you can't have Lofton and BenFran. And if anything, the team needs Nixon more than Lofton. Nixon added leadership and mentoring that this offense desperately needs right now.
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Completely mishandled the Brandon Phillips situation.
Agreed. Wedge is to blame just as much here.
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Coco Crisp for Andy Marte? How's that one working out?
Andy Marte was universally considered a 100% can't miss prospect. He was an absolute dream. Power and defense at third base. Sometimes scouts are just wrong. No one is to blame, things just happen. It's unfortunate it had to happen to us, and with someone we gave a decent amount for. I'm still convinced Marte can be a decent major leaguer, and hopefully Wedge gives in and gives him real playing time this year.
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And do we have ANYONE in our farm system who can come in with their bat and produce for us? Absolutely not, our farm system is barren right now aside from Adam Chandalier Miller.
Wrong. David Huff, Jeff Stevens, Chuck Lofgren, Tony Sipp, Nick Weglarz, Jordan Brown, Beau Mills, Wes Hodges, Stephen Head, Trevor Crowe, Kelvin De La Cruz, Matt McBride, Chris Gimenez, Hector Rondon, Jose Constanza, Ryan Miller, JD Martin, Luis Perdomo. All are prospects worth keeping an eye on. Even as well as guys like Jensen Lewis, Brian Slocum, Randy Newsom, and Eddie Mujica.
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We've invested so much in pitching that we have zero offensive prospects.
Wrong again. See above.
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There is ONE non-pitcher worth keeping on this team (who's healthy, I'm not counting Martinez). That's Grady Sizemore, and even then he's not hitting anywhere close to .300. In fact, we have no one right now who hits in that .300-.320 range.
Worth keeping? They're far from being untouchable, but I'd like to think Ben Francisco, Kelly Shoppach, and maybe even Shin-Soo Choo are "worth keeping".
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Did anyone really think Betancourt was going to keep it up? I've never really been a fan of his stuff, it's like he only throws 90 MPH fastballs, I don't see much movement on his pitches. Perez, however, surprised me this year.
No one expected him to retain a 1.47 ERA, but no one, reasonably, would expect a 5.67 blowup, either. The bullpen was let down by his regression, along with Jensen Lewis'. Perez and Kobayashi have been the only bright spots this season there.
I am far from an apologist, but this entire mess is not nearly all of Shapiro's fault. Shapiro can be blamed for the Joe Borowski mishap. He never should have been resigned. We treaded water the entire season with Borowski, and still somehow got out alive. Expecting him to do the same again is like expecting to be hit by lightning twice. We should have done something else, whether that's give the job to Betancourt, Perez, Kobayashi or Lewis, or find someone outside the organization.
The team was going south this season, and Sabathia was basically a luxury at this point. He brought back at least one stud prospect, who, again, is labeled a can't miss. We have starting pitching, we don't have a LaPorta. I'm going to miss Sabathia as much as anyone, he's probably the best Indians pitcher of my, and a lot of people's, lifetimes. But moves had to be made.
Get_Rowdy
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I remember people saying Kouzmanoff for Barfield was "brilliant." Which one is actually helping their team right now? I'd love Kouzmanoff's 11 homers.
Who did we have to play 2nd base at that time? Asdrubal was not ready. It was a position of need, and Shapiro traded for a guy who had a damn fine rookie season, and a very good minor league track record. Kouzmanoff was a luxury with a solid player in Blake (And I am far from a Blake fan) and Marte in the waiting. Trading a luxury for a position of desperate need on a team hoping to make the playoffs? I say that's a good trade.
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We went into the season with that God-awful platoon situation in left field when Francisco was CLEARLY ready. (it's moves like this that really make me think fans know more than GM's and managers in SOME cases). Oh and not re-signing Kenny Lofton? Dumb. Yes he's not on any team right now but dammit he was a spark plug last season and created excitement that could be felt in the seats and definitely had an effect on the team.
So you're upset Dellucci went into the season as our starting LF, and I completely agree with you there. You wanted BenFran to start. But you wanted to resign Kenny Lofton? To play where? Fransisco's defense blows in Right, Grady locks up Center, and Lofton is only playing Left and Center. What do you suggest we do? We should have searched for a better LF this year, but you can't have Lofton and BenFran. And if anything, the team needs Nixon more than Lofton. Nixon added leadership and mentoring that this offense desperately needs right now.
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Completely mishandled the Brandon Phillips situation.
Agreed. Wedge is to blame just as much here.
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Coco Crisp for Andy Marte? How's that one working out?
Andy Marte was universally considered a 100% can't miss prospect. He was an absolute dream. Power and defense at third base. Sometimes scouts are just wrong. No one is to blame, things just happen. It's unfortunate it had to happen to us, and with someone we gave a decent amount for. I'm still convinced Marte can be a decent major leaguer, and hopefully Wedge gives in and gives him real playing time this year.
Im not going thru qoute to qoute but Rowdy the only thing we agree on is Phiilps was mishandled. Phillips never got a chance because Shapiro thought they were going to make a playoff run with Rafial Belliard at 2nd base. They bombed out like they do every other year when they have expectations from the year before.
I stated in one of these Tribe threads about how I hated the Coco Crisp for Marte right from the beginning. Most of us did. That trade was so bad, it hurt the Indians in a trade down the road.The Indians needed to improve on speed, Wedge even said so, because they were near the bottom of the league in stolen bases. Then they trade their fastest player, top of the order, spark plug in Coco Crisp for Marte. Which put Sizemore at the leadoff spot. As much as I like Sizemore, and dont mind him leading off because he is now the best option, he should be hitting in runs at the 2 or 3 spot in the order.
How did that trade hurt the Indians twice? Because now that the Indians think they have their 3rd baseman of the future, they trade Kouzmanoff for Barfield. They didnt trade Kouzmanoff because they had a solid player in Blake. I cant believe you said that. They traded him because they just traded for Marte. If Blake is so solid at 3rd base, they wouldnt have traded for Marte and now a new 3rd baseman from the Brewers. If he was so solid at OF, they wouldnt have signed Nixon, Dellucie, Choo (unless Choo was drafted) and Michaels.
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Practice Squad
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They didnt trade Kouzmanoff because they had a solid player in Blake. I cant believe you said that. They traded him because they just traded for Marte. If Blake is so solid at 3rd base, they wouldnt have traded for Marte and now a new 3rd baseman from the Brewers. If he was so solid at OF, they wouldnt have signed Nixon, Dellucie, Choo (unless Choo was drafted) and Michaels.
I agree, if I'm reading between the lines properly, that Blake isn't exactly the best player in the world. I've never been a fan. But Blake WAS solid enough to hold off 3rd until Marte was ready, which was supposed to be this year. Marte was a much better prospect than Kouzmanoff. Blake was more reliable then Kouzmanoff. But Kouzmanoff had more value, still being young/raw than Blake. With all of that considered, Kouzmanoff was the man to leave. We needed someone to play second. In hindsight, of course it didn't work, but Kouzmanoff had the value, and thus was the one to trade.
Get_Rowdy
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Not to revive a seemingly dead thread but...  Quote:
Remove the Hafner and Martinez injuries from the mix, everyone else is hitting like crap aside from a man named Grady
Strike one. How is this Mark Shapiro's fault? Guys who had good years are performing well below what they're capable of. Whether it's young players or veterans. It's not the GM's fault. Plain and simple.
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Coco Crisp for Andy Marte? How's that one working out?
Strike two. Coco has been a complete disappointment in Boston. He hit .266 his first two years as a Red Sox. We ended up with one of the best backup catchers in baseball and one of the top prospects in baseball. Kelly Shopach is very good at what he is supposed to do and Andy Marte has been a huge disappointment and that trade hasn't worked out for either side the way that it was supposed to. Would you want to be paying over 5 million dollars a year (the average of his Red Sox Contract) for a .266 hitter whose overall numbers have declined since leaving Cleveland? I loved Coco too, but he wanted too much money and we were able to get a top prospect at our number one glaring weakness... unfortunately Andy Marte hasn't performed but every mid market GM in baseball would have made that trade.
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Completely mishandled the Brandon Phillips situation
We all need to let go of Brandon Phillips. If he would have stayed here he would be out of baseball by now. He was fighting with the Mendoza line the two years that he was with us. His attitude was horrible and he showed absolutely nothing at the Major League level. I was as excited as anyone about Phillips when we acquired him, but the change of scenery was what sparked him. He had an extended look here and he fell flat on his face... If Shapiro had stuck with him and he continued to perform as he performed here, people would be saying that Shapiro was sticking with him solely to vindicate the Colon trade. It's a lose-lose situation.
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Whose desk does that stop at? Why, Mark Shapiro and Larry Dolan. We needed to go out there and add to this offense to put us over the top
Considering that Paul Dolan has assumed the responsibility of team President, and not Larry Dolan, this is an obvious strike three. Try and learn a little bit about the team that you follow.
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Oh and not re-signing Kenny Lofton? Dumb. Yes he's not on any team right now
Exactly! He's not on ANY team right now. So because you think that he's the missing link and no other team has signed him should all of the 30 GM's in Major League Baseball be fired? I mean, obviously you are more knowledgeable than all of them because you've spoken with his agents about his demands and dealt with scouting reports concerning him... Strike four.
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We've invested so much in pitching that we have zero offensive prospects
Well, this isn't true but are you really questioning the investment in pitching? The almost universally recognized most important part of the game of baseball. The investment that allowed for us to have the best rotation in baseball before 2 of our top 3 starters went down early in the year (along with our #1 pitching prospect). The investment that got us to game 7 of the ALCS last year... And that's not even talking about the fact that we do, in fact, have position player prospects... 5
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Did anyone really think Betancourt was going to keep it up?
You mean the guy with a career ERA hovering around 3 with a K/BB ratio of over 4 to 1... Yea I think most people expected him to keep it up... But it's Mark Shapiro's fault that he signed him to a multiyear deal and expected him to perform as he always has... If he wouldn't have signed him you'd be trashing Larry Dolan (again the wrong Dolan) for being a cheapskate... It's not even worth it to keep on counting..
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Detroit's doing it and they're in a small market so I don't want the small market excuse. Dolans are just being cheap. Like another poster said, I don't want them to lose money or anything, but they need to seriously look at whether or not they can compete financially in baseball the way the economic system is right now.
Detroit is actually the 11th largest MSA in the country at almost 5 million people. They're actually less than half a million people behind the Boston MSA. They are NOT a small market team. That's just a fact. And again with the "Dolans are being cheap" cry that has emanated ever since they took over... What a joke. I guess if we throw out all of the "facts" and "numbers" they are cheap, but if we're living in a fantasy world why not just say that the Browns have won 40 Superbowls. This argument is so outdated it's not even worth trying to convince you of it's factual relevance...
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Trading CC makes me sick. We should pony up the bucks to re-sign him AND go out and find a legit 3rd base and right field sluggers
I have to end on this one... Wow.. So you want to sink over a quarter of our entire payroll on a guy who has been more or less inconsistent his entire career and only sees the field once every 5 days? That's idiotic for a small market team. And I absolutely love C.C. but we just can't pay him over 20 million a year for 5 years. It's simple economics... As for the "go out and find a legit 3rd base and right field sluggers" comment.. well why don't we just go out and find a couple of future hall of famers who can hit 60 home runs a year... It's a great idea but it isn't going to happen. Those type of guys just aren't going to be out there. It's a pipe dream. Every team in the league could say the same thing... And even if those type of guys were to hit free agency (which would be the only way considering that we'd have to give up at least equal value in a trade) you'd be looking at 30 plus million dollars annually devoted to those players. That combined with a contract with C.C. would essentially put our payroll between 110 and 120 million dollars a year (which we could just not afford plain and simple) with around a quarter of a billion dollars guaranteed to those 3 players over a 5 year time span (C.C. and the two sluggers). There are only a handful of teams who could do that and we are not one of them.
Time and change will surely show
How firm thy friendship
O - HI - O
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Hall of Famer
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Sabathia proves he is worth the price
By Adam McCalvy / MLB.com
SAN FRANCISCO -- The Brewers ponied up four prospects and more than $5 million to pry CC Sabathia away from the Cleveland Indians.
So far, they are getting exactly what they paid for.
Sabathia pitched his second straight complete game and won for the third time as a Brewer in as many starts, holding the Giants to four hits with 10 strikeouts in a 9-1 win at AT&T Park on a chilly Friday night.
The Brewers and Sabathia began the second half right where they ended the first. Friday's win came five days after Sabathia went the distance to beat the Reds at Miller Park in the Brewers' final game before the All-Star break.
"I didn't really worry about what these starts were going to be like," said Sabathia, who had played his entire career in the Indians organization before last week's trade. "I was just worried about how it was going to be in the clubhouse with different guys. That's been the easy part. It's been relaxing and it's made everything else easy."
The Brewers have scored 19 runs in Sabathia's three starts, including the nine they tallied on Friday. Prince Fielder and Mike Cameron each hit a three-run home run and J.J. Hardy drove in a pair of runs to beat the Giants and starter Matt Cain (5-8), whose final pitching line -- six innings, seven hits, three earned runs, five walks -- belied how well he pitched.
Sabathia was a few notches better, holding the Giants to three singles and an eighth-inning solo home run by center fielder Aaron Rowand.
Before Rowand's blast, an infield hit was all that stood between Sabathia and a shot at the first Brewers no-hitter since Juan Nieves blanked the Orioles in April of 1987. Giants left fielder Fred Lewis led off the bottom of the first inning and legged out a bouncer to shortstop that momentarily popped out of Hardy's glove. It was immediately ruled a single by official scorer Michael Duca.
"I definitely thought about it," Hardy said. "It would have been unbelievable if my play in the first inning could ruin his no-hitter. I would have gone up and asked to get it changed so he could have a no-hitter."
But was it an error?
"It definitely could have been an error," Hardy said.
"When that was first hit, I was really questioning in my mind, 'Was that really a hit?'" manager Ned Yost said. "That's a play J.J. makes. It went moot as soon as Rowand hit that home run. It didn't matter."
Sabathia insisted he was not thinking about that close call. He erased Lewis on a double-play grounder, the first of 17 Giants retired in order until the seventh, when Lewis reached on an error charged to Brewers second baseman Rickie Weeks. Sabathia stranded Lewis at third without allowing a hit, but Rowand led off the eighth and connected on a changeup for a home run that temporarily cut the Brewers' lead to 6-1.
Cameron extended the lead in the ninth inning, a frame extended when Giants second baseman Ivan Ochoa could not hold on to Russell Branyan's two-out line drive.
Sabathia surrendered a harmless single to Randy Winn with two outs in the ninth inning but retired Bengie Molina on a lazy flyout to finish his 21st career complete game. He became the first Brewers pitcher to go the distance in consecutive starts since Scott Karl on Sept. 3 and 9, 1996.
The last time the Brewers got consecutive complete games was July 7-8, 1995, when Stave Sparks and Ricky Bones beat the Angels. Yost never called down to the bullpen on Friday.
"I thought about getting somebody up, if that counts," Yost said. "But, no, we never got anybody up."
Sabathia, who homered in Sunday's win over the Reds, again contributed to the offense with a double in the third inning off Cain. He scored the Brewers' first run on a Hardy groundout, a thrill for the family and friends from Sabathia's hometown of Vallejo, Calif., about 30 minutes from downtown San Francisco.
He purchased 95 tickets for the game and joked that he pitched for free on Friday. Sabathia never had much success in Oakland (1-4, 7.12 ERA in eight starts), but Yost said he didn't worry about the big left-hander on Friday.
"I don't worry about CC getting too hyped after his first game with us," said Yost, referring to a sellout win over the Rockies on July 8. "He didn't get too hyped then and that was a tester."
In his three Brewers starts, Sabathia has allowed five earned runs in 24 innings.
"I feel pretty good," the reigning American League Cy Young Award winner said. "I can't say I feel like a Cy Young winner, but I feel good. I want to keep doing what I'm doing so far."
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I just hope that if the Brewers get in the playoffs I don't have to see the same performance you guys saw last year. Right now this trade looks great for my team.
Sabathia propelling Brewers toward playoffs
The Associated PressPublished: July 24, 2008
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The trade Milwaukee made for CC Sabathia just keeps looking better and better. Every time the Brewers' new ace takes the mound, he gets them closer to October.
The big lefty won his fourth straight start with Milwaukee, allowing just three hits in his third straight complete game to lead Milwaukee over the St. Louis Cardinals, 3-0, Wednesday night.
Ryan Braun had four hits, missing the cycle by a double, and J.J. Hardy hit his 14th homer for the Brewers, who have homered in 19 straight games, tying the franchise record set in 1996. Not that they've needed to do much at the plate with Sabathia starting.
"You feel good if you can get CC one or two," manager Ned Yost said. "Just give him a little bit of breathing room and work from there, it's a good thing."
Sabathia (4-0) followed up a four-hitter over Cincinnati and an eight-hitter over San Francisco with another gem and his 22nd complete game. Sabathia has won all four starts since the Brewers acquired him from Cleveland.
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The reigning AL Cy Young winner has won seven straight decisions overall in his last nine starts.
Cardinals starter Braden Looper (9-8) lasted five innings, allowing a run and seven hits. It wasn't enough against Sabathia and the Brewers, who are one victory away from a perfect 7-0 trip and a sweep of their division rivals.
Sabathia walked Brendan Ryan on five pitches to start the first, then retired 17 consecutive batters before Ryan's line-drive single just to the right of first baseman Prince Fielder with two outs in the sixth.
Ryan Ludwick followed with an infield hit down the third-base line that Bill Hall could only knock down. Sabathia dealt with his only bit of trouble by getting Albert Pujols on a fly out.
To start the ninth, Sabathia got the last two of his seven strikeouts, fanning Ludwick and Pujols to show he had enough to finish the job.
In the American League:
Rays 4, Athletics 3 Ben Zobrist homered and drove in two runs - then was rewarded by getting shipped back to the minors - and James Shields pitched into the ninth inning, helping the Rays beat the Oakland Athletics 4-3 on Wednesday.
The victory kept the Rays a half-game in front of the Red Sox, who needed 12 innings to beat the Seattle Mariners, 6-3. And despite winning six in a row and 10 straight at home, the Yankees are still three and a half games back in the division after a 5-1 win over Minnesota.
Jonny Gomes hit a two-run shot and Zobrist homered on the next pitch off Greg Smith in the fifth, giving the Rays a 3-2 lead. Gomes is just 6 for 42 over his last 24 games, but four of the hits have been homers.
Zobrist, the No.9 hitter, has hit all five of his homers this season in his last 16 games, but he was optioned to Triple-A Durham afterward to make room for starting shortstop Jason Bartlett, who is expected to be activated Thursday after missing 16 games with a strained knee.
"I understand," Zobrist said. "I know the way that is."
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Good I hope CC the best. And thome.
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