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Hickson has looked like an absolute beast thus far. In 29 minutes he has 26 Points (11-15 FG), 9 rebounds (7 offensive) and about 5 tip dunks. I know it's summer league but every time he's caught the ball with his back to the basket, he has looked unstoppable (finishing with ease). Could be a great find at #19. NBA.com has a webcast up of the game if anyone wants to watch the last 4 minutes. Box Score here... http://www.nba.com/summerleague2008/games/boxscore.jsp?gameId=1520800013
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In 29 minutes he has 26 Points (11-15 FG), 9 rebounds (7 offensive) and about 5 tip dunks.
That's good news. I know it's only summer league but shooting 11-15 is decent at any time,9 rebounds is good as well for his size. Keep it up JJ 
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  ....
The Mammal
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I know many moaned when we drafted him, but having seen him a few times, I thought it was a good pick.
He will give us some quality minutes as a rook and get better from there. he isn't one of those guys who will take 4 years to fill out.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I know many moaned when we drafted him, but having seen him a few times, I thought it was a good pick.
He will give us some quality minutes as a rook and get better from there. he isn't one of those guys who will take 4 years to fill out.
A lot of people moaned cause they knew nothing about him 
I think he has a lot of intangibles that people overlook. One of them is STRONG HANDS, which is an extremely underated quality for an NBA big that spends a lot of time under the rim. He also gets good leverage with his body, which is HUGE on the boards. He is able to do that since he has such a strong lower body...
Lets hope he continues to stay aggressive in Summer League. He does have a lot of work to do on defense (positioning, and not always trying to block every shot) but that will be taught..
I heart winning
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A lot of people question his drive and his motor... and I said on draft day that was largely a product of the fact that he didn't want to be at NCState, he would have been a straight into the NBA guy if the option was available... not to mention NCState wasn't very good. He just lost interest from time to time....
yebat' Putin
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Its true...
another thing (as an NCST fan) that i noticed. The team didnt buy into the "run the offense through JJ" system that Sid Lowe tried to run. It was a team with almost no chemistry and JJ still put up big numbers.
He will be a very very dominant player. Cleveland...yall made a great pick grabbin my boy from NCST. He's going to be very very good. think Elton Brand but better
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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A lot of people moaned cause they knew nothing about him
A lot of people moaned because he wasn't from Ohio State. 
After reading about one paragraph on the guy after we drafted him ... I knew I was happy with the pick. He's the kind of guy we've lacked since Boozer left.
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.yall made a great pick grabbin my boy from NCST.
Be careful, there are some on here who will say that comment is offensive.....at least they did to me. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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i have to admit, i have not seen this guy play much at all...
i don't think you can make too much about his stats in his summer league debut, but you definitely can't just ignore it...
i've heard that he could start the year in the d-league (that was before his 26 point outburst) but i think it would be beneficial to him to get him on the bench (i mean, it's not like there isn't room) and let a guy like joe smith mentor him
joe would be the perfect guy too... he knows how to adapt, he came into the league with pretty big expecatations (number one overall pick) and while he didn't quite live up to them, he changed his game, and his resume speaks for it self, the guy is the perfect role player...
from the very little i have seen of hickson, i love his touch, and the way he moves his feet, but he probably will have to bulk up a bit, although you can say that about most guys coming into the league outside of the top guys...
as far as the cavs go, i know a lot of fans are feeling like danny ferry is doing absolutely nothing to help this team, but i think we all need to understand that he's not in the position to help this team yet...
i wanted him to make a move like everyone else... i saw elton brand, gilbert arenas, and baron davis opt out of their deals, thinning the class of 2009 when we potentially (trading our expiring deals makes this a moot point) have a ton of money to spend... the top 3 guys that could have been with that class now have long-term deals...
but i think the cavs can be ok going into the season with what they have, knowing that as the season rolls on, their chances of making the team better increase...
getting daniel gibson and delonte west signed and locked up would be a start...
you get everyone into training camp, no holdouts, no distractions, and you make the committment to shoot for the top of the eastern conference...
while we all point to things the cavs could be better at, i honestly think playing all 82 games, and not dogging games (like they have in recent past) trumps all of those...
this is a team that was right there with boston, home court decided who moved on...
so it's not as if they aren't good enough, it's just that they need to earn the right to play at home in a big series for games 1 and 7...
every big series the cavs have had since lebron was drafted has been on the road...
2 with detroit, 1 with san antonio, and one with boston...
think about that.
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.yall made a great pick grabbin my boy from NCST.
Be careful, there are some on here who will say that comment is offensive.....at least they did to me.
Just like they do to osu fans when they root or r happy for OSU players geettin drafted?
We all do it peen...it's just the way it is..
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.yall made a great pick grabbin my boy from NCST.
Be careful, there are some on here who will say that comment is offensive.....at least they did to me.
Which part is offensive? The "y'all" part or the "boy" part? 
yebat' Putin
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from the very little i have seen of hickson, i love his touch, and the way he moves his feet, but he probably will have to bulk up a bit, although you can say that about most guys coming into the league outside of the top guys...
The thing I think you will like about him is that he finishes, which has been a problem. Far too often you see LeBron get into the paint and dish to "pick a name like Gooden, Z, V, Marshal, etc" and watch them go up soft and get it swatted away or clank one off the rim... JJ is going to finish those plays... that's where I expect him to have the biggest impact as the rest of his game develops.
yebat' Putin
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He better be a beast,
Cause it looks like the Cavs are gonna sit on thier hands again this FA period and instead of signing stars to help Labron, their gonna hopefully sign back-ups to those stars to big contracts which restrict any type of movement what so ever.
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He better be a beast,
Cause it looks like the Cavs are gonna sit on thier hands again this FA period and instead of signing stars to help Labron, their gonna hopefully sign back-ups to those stars to big contracts which restrict any type of movement what so ever.
Most likely but Ferry is kind of handcuffed right now.
For one. we're WAY over the cap. Something like 17-18 million. The only free agents we can re-sign are our own and the only way to land a significant addition is through a sign and trade (which we clearly don't have the pieces for). Not only that but at this point, this is all money coming out of Gilbert's pocket......so I'm sure Ferry was told to use a bit of discretion.
Our only tradeable asset (Varejao) can't go to his most likely destination (Charlotte) before december 5th (because they initially signed him to his offer sheet) and all the expiring money we have isn't really valuable to any team at this stage. Dumping money off the cap in June/july doesn't exactly help sell tickets, so the Cavs are most likely going to have to wait until around the all-star break to try and land a star from a struggling team.
Ferry takes a lot of flack but he's done about as much as he could given the circumstances. It's probably not a popular view but I might even roll the dice if I were Ferry and NOT make a trade unless we could get Pau Gasol type. The thing I fear most, even more so then not making a move, is him adding a borderline player and getting stuck with a bad contract that's going to kill us (just to appease the "we need to make a move" crowd). Unless we're getting a very good young player in return, I'd probably rather just shed all that salary and have a little bit of money (outside of the MLE) to add some new blood.
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Couldn't agree more. I'll be perfectly happy as long as we can get Gibson and West resigned. (aren't the restricted free agents anyway?) We don't have the cap space to do anything in FA. And everybody forgets that this is a team that was completely blown up in February, and with 3 months to sort out the chemistry ... they still almost knocked off the eventual champions.
I think we are fine if we stand pat ... if we need one more peice to the puzzle, then we can make a trade in the winter when we can get max value for our $30 million in expiring contracts.
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Too bad we can't trade for Artest (or can we?). I think he'd fit in nicely with Mike Brown's defensive scheme.
And did we lose out on Posey yet?
Yes, we all have to remember that we were very close to dropping the Celts in game 7 and that was without Boobie playing. His shooting could have been the difference in that game.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Hickson could honestly be one of those pieces. Remember that the kid is only 19 years old.
He will grow into a player very quickly I think. His game translates very well. And if you look at the youngsters in the NBA who are making quick transitions, his game fits into that very well. Look no further than Leon Powe as a guy like that. Al Jefferson is another.
He may start off on the bench, but on a team like Cleveland that is starving for scorers, JJ will come in and will blow up.
Here's why. LeBron obviously commands a truckload of attention, and with Big Z still drawing attention away from defenses, this kid will be free to roam. He'll have a few big games, and Brown will put him in the lineup to give him a chance and he'll have a big first start, and will stay there the rest of the year, and become a force.
maybe im wrong, but thats my prediction.
and...when i say starved for scoring i mean outside of lebron. i know that West can put up points, and gibson can shoot, but if you look...Cleveland struggles with scoring points
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Most likely but Ferry is kind of handcuffed right now.
For one. we're WAY over the cap. Something like 17-18 million.
Ferry takes a lot of flack but he's done about as much as he could given the circumstances.
He plainly deserves some flack for a few dumbass moves he's made in the recent past.
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Makes sence, Glad you explained it...Thanks i'm not a huge basketball follower, but I do follow the Cav's but really dont know squat about what you just explained.I was wondering why during all this talk about Davis & Magette & others, the Cavs were never mentioned, now I know. So with that, how do you guys think this team will jell, with the advantage of having all training camp together & starting the season together, or will the age of Walley, Ben & Joe take it's tole
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And did we lose out on Posey yet?
On the drive back from lunch, I just heard on ESPN radio's news update that we were still trying hard to sign him.
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Practice Squad
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Just remember guys, Shannon Brown played amazing in the summer league also avg 30 pts a game. We all know how that turned out....
"I only had a couple of weeks to train, but I'm glad it happened because it gave me a chance to be a Browns player," Bell said.
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So with that, how do you guys think this team will jell, with the advantage of having all training camp together & starting the season together, or will the age of Walley, Ben & Joe take it's tole
i think it can only help...
i do worry about a guy like wally... joe and ben both did very well last year, they fit in, they knew what they were expected to do...
but wally? he didn't live up to expectations, he's a 13 million dollar dissapointment (larry hughes, anyone?) and i wonder how he's going to play knowing that he's most likely going to be dealt by the deadline...
i really hope the cavs can land james posey via the mle...
that could essentially help wally...
you start posey in the backcourt with west, and then you go bron, big ben, and z... that makes wally know his role as a bench guy, and i think that could help him out... but obviously like i said, he knows he's going to be dealt...
james posey may not be that missing piece to this team, but he could be a very valuable addition...
i love his game, i think it fits the cavs perfectly... he is an absolute pest, think bruce bowen...
rock solid defense, clutch 3 point shooting, and he's been a part of 2 different championship clubs, that is not a coincidence...
you might even be able to say that without the play of posey, boston may not have won their championship, you can argue it, but even the argument alone shows his worth...
hopefully he gives the cavs a hometown discount
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I read just read on HoopsHype.com that the Cavs are trying to sweeten the deal for Posey. "Posey played down the possibility of returning to Cleveland, his hometown, though an NBA source said the Cavaliers might up the ante in an effort to get a talented player to aid LeBron James." LINK
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Most likely but Ferry is kind of handcuffed right now.
For one. we're WAY over the cap. Something like 17-18 million.
Ferry takes a lot of flack but he's done about as much as he could given the circumstances.
He plainly deserves some flack for a few dumbass moves he's made in the recent past.
So Ferry is somehow responsible for signing a guy, who went for 22, 6, 5 the previous season, turning in to a shell of his former self? 
I would guess you're referring to the Hughes move but Larry was an all-star player the year we signed him. I don't think anyone knew he would struggle as much as he did. Hughes was one of the top 2-3 free agents that year and he was just 25-26 years old. There wasn't a single GM around the league that would have thought Hughes would be where he was at today given his age and his 2 monster years prior to free agency.
Blame it on Ferry if you want but it's a bit short sighted. When you get a guy who put up 18, 5, 3 and then 22, 6, 5, 3 at 24 and 25 years of age how the hell could anyone predict he would be a complete bust the next 3 years? That goes against any logical explanation/expectation. Sometimes it happens but based on his previous seasons, Hughes was considered to be a pretty sure thing. Did it work? No, it didn't but given his statistical output (at his age) you'd have to think 9 out of 10 times said player continues to produce at or near that level. We just happened to be that 1 time. I guess I fail to see how the GM is supposed to accurately identify that 10% and somehow avoid it on a consistent basis?
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So Ferry is somehow responsible for signing a guy, who went for 22, 6, 5 the previous season, turning in to a shell of his former self?
No he's responsible for making plenty of dumb moves and still hasn't provided Lebron with another consistant player who will get points night in and night out. But it's ok,after another season we shed millions of cap room
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not to mention hughes was the best option available to ferry at that point
allen and redd were not going to pass up the deals they were given.
some people don't get it...
i also love the "ferry has screwed up the draft!#$!@%!@"
ya know, when he's had all of what, 3 picks coming into last month's draft? (not one of them in the top 20)
i love how some people just assume things, do your homework, people.
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So Ferry is somehow responsible for signing a guy, who went for 22, 6, 5 the previous season, turning in to a shell of his former self?
No he's responsible for making plenty of dumb moves and still hasn't provided Lebron with another consistant player who will get points night in and night out. But it's ok,after another season we shed millions of cap room
what dumb moves?
as far as i'm concerned, he's made more good moves than bad...
let's look back, shall we?
the trade of mike wilks for flip murray? he traded garbage for a guy who ended up sparking a nice run to get the cavs pretty far...
the addition of daniel gibson? second round pick...
how about standing his ground on 2 underachievers in pavlovic and varejao?
last february's trade, where he actually brought in better players, AND made our future better financially?
you can bang on him for larry hughes, but i bet you weren't crying that it was a horrible move when the signing was announced, ferry brought in the best player available, as well as the 2 best outside shooters in free agency that year.
i blame larry hughes, who by the way, went on the record as to saying he didn't want to fully commit to winning a championship.
so again, where are these bad moves?
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so again, where are these bad moves?
LMAO...If I even need to explain that to you I won't even bother
- I do like the Hickson and Gibson picks though
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so again, where are these bad moves?
LMAO...If I even need to explain that to you I won't even bother
If you won't then i'll try.
Shannon Brown: Yikes, guy was a monumental bust.
Resigning Drew Gooden: I'm not a Gooden fan, and giving him that much money, IMO, was a mistake. Gooden never fit this team.
Standing too firm with Sasha, Andy: I think definately with Andy he took a little to much of a hard line stance. He wasn't willing to compromise and he weakened the team. IMO, Sasha, while I think is still a possible good player, isn't worth the money he will make.
Not getting another All-Star: Say what you will about Larry Hughes, he was a mirage. If you looked at his stats from his breakout year, you can see that he wasn't as good as he appeared. I believe he shot about a 39% FG, while still not driving much to the basket. Giving Damon Jones and Donyell Marshall those long term contracts. Damon and Donyell were one way players, and not going to make this team significantly better. Hamstrung the team with their bad contracts going forward.
Not getting Bibby: Bibby, while i'm not positive he would have been the missing link, would definately have been welcomed here. I believe i've heard it mentioned that Ferry didn't do the trade because he didn't want to give up Larry, Gooden and Boobie. That was a mistake.
However, overall, I think, with what Ferry was given after Paxon destroyed the team, he has done an above average job.
But the pressure should definately be on him.
you had a good run Hank.
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i disagree with you, however, i do agree that the pressure is on ferry this year...
i think it's make or break, although i don't "think" that, that's the clear truth of the cavs...
everyone is all lebron is leaving/staying, but i really don't think he knows... obviously, he signed an extension with this team a few years ago, so it's not like he's just waiting to go to new york, i think he would love to stay in cleveland, but if ferry cannot bring in a guy with these expiring contracts/cap space in '09, then i think he's gone, and i wouldn't blame him one bit.
of course, 2 years is a long time away... and there's no gaurantee he opts out either, so it could really be 3 years...
and if lebron goes, and we are unable to land one of the other top tier free agents (wade, bosh, etc...) then i think the cavs could be in trouble...
if danny ferry cannot pull a trade off for a michael redd or a tracy mcgrady, or someone of that caliber, he will go down as the guy that effed the cavs, despite the fact that i think he's done a very good job with this team, all things considered....
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do your homework, people.
Yep. That about sums up this thread.
I heart winning
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All excellent point NAS....probably a fear of Ferry as well. Especially since he has LBJ to think about somewhere down the road.
I agree. Ferry isn't a bad GM. He is strapped with a few circumstances no other GM has to face. He has to help James, but he can't just jump at everything trying to do so. He has to prepare to sign James again, or be able to put a team on the floor once James leaves.
DF doesn't have a easy job.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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and really, danny ferry may not be able to bring in a guy this year...
if you think about it...
milwaukee dealt for richard jefferson, i'm still scratching my head on that move... his contract isn't great...
but i think that aims them more at playing for now, rather than playing for the future...
if they do well, and are contending, they aren't going to deal redd, if jefferson gets hurt and/or the bucks struggle, i think we are in prime position to get him
i think the same goes for mcgrady, in a tough western conference, if the rockets struggle, he could ask to be dealt, but if they don't?
so, what if the bucks, and rockets both don't become dealers?
the class of 09 is nice, but there is no true superstar to put alongside lebron...
there are some nice pieces, that is for sure, but with brand, arenas, and davis opted out and signed, the class is much weaker...
i named off the class for next offseason in one of the other threads...
the nba is a lot about luck...
the cavs lucking into getting lebron, the spurs getting really lucky all those years back getting tim duncan (when they had a pretty good team to begin with)
we have to get lucky and hope the bucks struggle so that we can land michael redd... if they don't struggle, why would they deal him?
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LMAO...If I even need to explain that to you I won't even bother
- I do like the Hickson and Gibson picks though
Translation ... "I can't come up with a specific example, so I'll just laugh." Like Lebron said ... do your homework! Ferry has been behind the eight ball that Paxson left since day one.
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If you won't then i'll try.
Thank you for at least trying. 
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Shannon Brown: Yikes, guy was a monumental bust.
This wasn't his first choice. He was originally going to pick Daniel Gibson at this spot (25) or trade down, but Shannon Brown was sitting there. He was graded my most of the draft experts a lottery pick and was considered a steal at 25. He ended up getting Gibson anyway in the 2nd round. Still, I would exactly call a 25th pick a bust anyway. Besides, we used him as trade bait to help get Delonte West.
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Resigning Drew Gooden: I'm not a Gooden fan, and giving him that much money, IMO, was a mistake. Gooden never fit this team.
I can sort of agree with this one. Gooden wasn't the best fit, but still "THAT much money"? His contract was worth what? 7 or 8 million? He was one of he only tradeable contracts we had in February.
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Standing too firm with Sasha, Andy: I think definately with Andy he took a little to much of a hard line stance. He wasn't willing to compromise and he weakened the team. IMO, Sasha, while I think is still a possible good player, isn't worth the money he will make.
Welcome to the NBA ... once a player hits free agency, he's GOING to make more than he's worth. We did the right thing with Andy. He wanted way more than what he was worth, so we just waited things out. Sasha isn't really making THAT much, and is probably worth the money when he's healthy.
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Not getting another All-Star: Say what you will about Larry Hughes, he was a mirage. If you looked at his stats from his breakout year, you can see that he wasn't as good as he appeared. I believe he shot about a 39% FG, while still not driving much to the basket. Giving Damon Jones and Donyell Marshall those long term contracts. Damon and Donyell were one way players, and not going to make this team significantly better. Hamstrung the team with their bad contracts going forward.
And this has been brought up and explained several times before ... the ONE time Ferry had money he had a WORTHLESS free agent crop. The best player available was Hughes. In order to sign him, we pretty much had to give him the max. Jones and Marshall were the top two 3 point shooters at the time as well. Of the available free agents that signed with other teams, we probably got 3 of the top 5 ... the players available were that bad! And dont' tell me you would of been happy if Ferry would of sat on his hands and waited until next yeart!
... Also everyone forgets that Lebron was up for free agency the next year. Ferry HAD to go out and get the best available to PROVE that they were trying to get Lebron help. That's also why they gave Z a big contract ... he was the only worthwhile big man available. That one free agent class provided pretty much ALL of Ferry's bad signings ... and it was pretty much because he had to do it. Had he signed nobody ... everyone would of screamed for his head and LeBron might not of resigned.
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Not getting Bibby: Bibby, while i'm not positive he would have been the missing link, would definately have been welcomed here. I believe i've heard it mentioned that Ferry didn't do the trade because he didn't want to give up Larry, Gooden and Boobie. That was a mistake.
You're quoting a rumor ... we have no real idea what the trade was for, or backed out of it. (I really doubt Larry would of been part of the deal, as that would of been a huge salary dump for us, and most likely not match salaries to allow the trade to go through). It's all speculation on how much Bibby would really help us anyway.
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However, overall, I think, with what Ferry was given after Paxon destroyed the team, he has done an above average job.
Agreed.
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But the pressure should definately be on him.
Yes ... $30 million in expiring contracts this winter will give him Flexibility he hasn't seen since he got the job. We can start making fair assessments of how he's done starting then. Most of what he's done so far is trying to dig himself out of the crater Paxson left him in.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,316
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,316 |
I want the Cavs to do nothing besides re-sign West and Brown. While this won't be popular with fans and possibly even Lebron, I think getting everyone back together and hopefully staying healthy will really help this team out. Since we have all this dead money/expiring contracts at the end of the year, that will really allow us to add a big time free agent or make a big mid-season trade.
The only way I trade an Eric Snow or Wally ($20M in expiring contracts) is if I get a true all-pro similar to what Boston did last year to get Garnett and Allen. Unfortunately, that could have been a really unique situation and all the GM's have learned not to do that. My point being is I don't want to trade those expiring contracts for some mid-tier player with a huge contract with 3-4 years left on it just to try to say I did something.
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 805
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 805 |
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Translation ... "I can't come up with a specific example, so I'll just laugh."
Please...read the thread again. I said he "still hasn't provided Lebron with another consistant player who will get points night in and night out". Correct ? So that is a specific example ? Thank you I guess it's one of those things where ya gotta agree to disagree becaue you aren't changing my mind and I doubt I'll change yours or any other Ferry supporter
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,337
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,337 |
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Just remember guys, Shannon Brown played amazing in the summer league also avg 30 pts a game. We all know how that turned out....
Yeah I remember, Mike Brown refused to play him!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
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I said he "still hasn't provided Lebron with another consistant player who will get points night in and night out". Correct ?
Yeah ... so give me an example of when he could of actually done that?? The one year he had FA money, he got 3 of the 5 best free agents. Since then, he hasn't had a tradable contract or draft pick to work to do anything. So other some "would only work in a video-game" type trade ... or border-line trades for someone like Bibby that likely wouldn't put us over the top anyway ... What exactly was Ferry supposed to do?
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum FWIW: J.J. Hickson having a
monster debut in Cavs summer
league.....
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