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i was just bustin' your chops.  i do however think the owner should decide....and then the customers decide where they go....and i'm talking either resturarant or bar... in this country if there was a demand for non-smoking bars, they would pop up everywhere...cause business want to make money...same goes for restuarants... and as far as workers go, they'll be just fine when their place of work closes up or lets them go because of lack of customers... we have basic rights as Americans....those shouldn't ever be taken away... all the rest is bs... same thing with gambling and strip clubs....offended....don't go...end of problem... everyone has to tell everyone else how to live and it sucks.... i work at a huge fire station with 6 other guys....2 of us smoke.....i'm there for 24 hours and i can't even smoke in the garage away from the 4 non-smokers...stupid law....i have to stand outside in the rain and snow..and then here them say.....30 feet from the door....totally utterly stupid...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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1st String
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If second hand smoke didn't cause cancer, I'm sure this wouldn't be a legal issue, but because it does, public health and safety is something that is dictated by govt regulation.
Well, I think the crap that comes out of the tailpipe of a car is unhealthy and bad for the safety of me and my loved ones. Should we ban internal combustion engines? Not only would we be healthier, we'd be spending less money and the oil crisis would be non-existant. 
Okay! Or were you trying to be funny?
The point is that every time you start your car you are causing more cancer and air problems than any smoker can.
I have a challenge for people like you. You go sit in a garage with your car running and I will sit in one and smoke all the cigarettes in a carton and we will see who walks out after a couple of hours.
70% of lung cancer are caused by diesel exhaust not by smoking.
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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But then you're infringing upon the rights of those of us who don't smoke. What if I want to go to the place that is a smoking restaurant because they have better food? I also have asthma, so going into a smoking restaurant is not going to be good for me.
Then you CHOOSE whether you want to go or not. SIMPLE. Why is it okay for you to tell us we can't smoke in a bar when you could go to the bar next door that is non smoking? 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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So what you are saying is, if there are both nonsmoking establishments and smoking establishments available, you want to be able to go into the one that allows smoking and make it be nonsmoking while you are there? Am I reading you right?
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If that's the case, then there are going to be alot of jobs lost because of possible hazards. Press operators could get a limb cut off, so we better eliminate all presses.
Democracy works as long as it doesn't pass laws against the Constitution. This one, IMO, does. Like I said before, the "majority" of people wanted the Jim Crow laws in place. Did that mean we should have kept them?
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If you propose a bill to ban hazardous fuel emissions...I'll vote for that too...so, what's your point?
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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The point is that you should park your car now and not ever start it up again, not speaking for Corpus, but that's what it sounds like he's saying.
Serious question for you. If they put it to a vote and the "majority" of voters wanted to reinstate the Jim Crow laws, you would say it's ok and not "personal"?
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I would, but I have to get to work, and unfortunately the public transportation in
Columbus, doesn't always get me to where I'm going. And I can't afford a cab everyday.
However, people who smoke, make the choice to smoke, for no other reason than, I want to smoke.
Didn't you say something about apples and oranges earlier...
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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That's not apples and oranges. You, and others, have justified the law because the "majority" wanted it. It's the same concept. If the "majority" voted to bring back the Jim Crow laws, then would that make it right?
I'm not saying the laws are the same, but the concept that if the majority wants it, then it's ok from what you've posted.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but were people ever given a choice about Jim Crow?
If not, then the comparison is not accurate. If so, then a second majority chose to change the law, and again, the comparison is not accurate.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Read what I'm saying carefully. I'm saying IF it was put to a vote and the majority voted to reinstate them, would that make it right? That's what I'm asking, not if it was put to a vote previously. Let's use a different example. The "majority" of people voted for Bush to be President in the last election. Do you think they were right? The whole point I'm trying to make is that the majority isn't always right just because they think something should be a certain way.
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So what you are saying is, if there are both nonsmoking establishments and smoking establishments available, you want to be able to go into the one that allows smoking and make it be nonsmoking while you are there? Am I reading you right?
I want to go where I want. If my healthy is a concern, of course i'm going to go to a non-smoking place. However, haven't my rights been changed as well?
Either way, you are changing rights for people. It's just the fact that right now smokers feel discriminated against and I can understand that. You fight it all you want, but most likely, if it comes down to a vote, then i'd be willing to bet that people will vote the same way.
And before someone says why will I vote either way, I abstain from it because I have too much of a personal reason to vote against it. If I can't be partial, then I shouldn't vote.
you had a good run Hank.
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The whole point I'm trying to make is that the majority isn't always right just because they think something should be a certain way.
You must not be much of a fan of democracy then.
you had a good run Hank.
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All Pro
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My god, doesn't Ohio have anything better to whine about? I dunno, lack of jobs maybe? People can't run away from that state fast enough but somehow THIS is always an issue? Grow up people. The biggest and most modern cities in the world have this law intact and find better things to complain about.
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I'm a huge fan of democracy. I'm also a big fan of the Constitution. I could make the same assumption about you. Apparently you aren't a "big fan" of the Constitution.
As for your rights, no, they haven't been violated. You have a choice to do business with someone that allows smoking or doesn't. It's not your "right" to dictate to the owner of a business what he allows or doesn't allow. It's no different than if I felt that alcohol was the juice of Satan and claimed my rights were violated if I went to a restaurant that served it. I know that they do, so I have a choice to go there to buy my food or elsewhere. Just as you have the right to choose which business to patronize.
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Read what I'm saying carefully. I'm saying IF it was put to a vote and the majority voted to reinstate them, would that make it right? That's what I'm asking, not if it was put to a vote previously.
Let's use a different example. The "majority" of people voted for Bush to be President in the last election. Do you think they were right?
The whole point I'm trying to make is that the majority isn't always right just because they think something should be a certain way.
I absolutely agree with that, unfortunately, that's the way democracy works. It was put to a vote, and the people chose, right or wrong.
I personally believe it was right in some regard and wrong in another.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I'm a huge fan of democracy. I'm also a big fan of the Constitution. I could make the same assumption about you. Apparently you aren't a "big fan" of the Constitution.
As for your rights, no, they haven't been violated. You have a choice to do business with someone that allows smoking or doesn't. It's not your "right" to dictate to the owner of a business what he allows or doesn't allow. It's no different than if I felt that alcohol was the juice of Satan and claimed my rights were violated if I went to a restaurant that served it. I know that they do, so I have a choice to go there to buy my food or elsewhere. Just as you have the right to choose which business to patronize.
Fair enough.
Honestly, the only reason I care is because I have health concerns. I can understand people feeling their rights are violated...because they possibly have been.
you had a good run Hank.
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As for your rights, no, they haven't been violated. You have a choice to do business with someone that allows smoking or doesn't.
Exactly what I was going to say to him.
And, CG, of course we have better things to take care of, but sometimes it's best to take a break from all the heavy stuff.  You're right about Ohio, though...it really does suck and not many seem to care.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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The problem is that when a law is voted in that is unconstitutional, the Constitution trumps the vote. IMO, this happened here.
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I tend to think that the majority are more often than not wrong.
Consider that the men who fought to create America were in the minority. Jesus was roundly rejected. Slavery, segregation, gay rights, Bush, the Iraq War, the world is flat, Gandhi, German citizens in the late 1930's -- most of the time, most of the people are wrong.
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I care!!!! 
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I understand what you're saying. If you've read the entire thread, you'll see me say I'm a nonsmoker about a dozen times. However, this is about the rights that have been taken from the business owners. I would be one of those patronizing the nonsmoking facilities. It's just where does it end?
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Read what I'm saying carefully. I'm saying IF it was put to a vote and the majority voted to reinstate them, would that make it right? That's what I'm asking, not if it was put to a vote previously.
Let's use a different example. The "majority" of people voted for Bush to be President in the last election. Do you think they were right?
The whole point I'm trying to make is that the majority isn't always right just because they think something should be a certain way.
I absolutely agree with that, unfortunately, that's the way democracy works. It was put to a vote, and the people chose, right or wrong.
I personally believe it was right in some regard and wrong in another.
Exactly. It was put to a vote. The votes were counted. It was enacted.
Was the wording on the ballot precise enough? That could be debated, but the vote was taken nonetheless.
Now, if it were to come to a vote again, with more precise language as to what exactly it pertained to, and it passes again(the ban), so be it.
I don't like gov't. telling people how to run their businesses. I do like democracy - the voters telling the gov't. what they want and don't want.
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And, CG, of course we have better things to take care of, but sometimes it's best to take a break from all the heavy stuff. You're right about Ohio, though...it really does suck and not many seem to care.
Yeah I know the light stuff needs love too But seriously, I still read the CLV news each day and every day there is something about the smoking ban, usually listed under some horrible story about companies shutting down, or how poor the city is, yada yada yada. I just wish people would stop petitioning over something as minor as this is in the overall scheme of things. Ohio does suck, big time, and I'm so happy I don't live there anymore. There are many more important things to petition for and complain about.
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I tend to think that the majority are more often than not wrong.
Consider that the men who fought to create America were in the minority. Jesus was roundly rejected. Slavery, segregation, gay rights, Bush, the Iraq War, the world is flat, Gandhi, German citizens in the late 1930's -- most of the time, most of the people are wrong.
Then Democracy is wrong?
you had a good run Hank.
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I think that public opinion can be easily swayed with the PC climate today. Democracy is wrong when it tries to go against the Constitution, IMO.
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I tend to think that the majority are more often than not wrong.
Consider that the men who fought to create America were in the minority. Jesus was roundly rejected. Slavery, segregation, gay rights, Bush, the Iraq War, the world is flat, Gandhi, German citizens in the late 1930's -- most of the time, most of the people are wrong.
Then Democracy is wrong?
When the populous is uneducated and posesses a herd mentality, results are often poor.
And I'm not totally sure I consider America a democracy anymore. We pay lip service to democracy.
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I tend to think that the majority are more often than not wrong.
Consider that the men who fought to create America were in the minority. Jesus was roundly rejected. Slavery, segregation, gay rights, Bush, the Iraq War, the world is flat, Gandhi, German citizens in the late 1930's -- most of the time, most of the people are wrong.
Then Democracy is wrong?
When the populous is uneducated and posesses a herd mentality, results are often poor.
And I'm not totally sure I consider America a democracy anymore. We pay lip service to democracy.
I agree actually. I've often thought of America as more of a Republic than a true Democracy. Either way you go, however, people will make the wrong decisions.
you had a good run Hank.
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We are pretty close on our view on this. Wow. Why do I feel like I need a shower? 
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The problem is that when a law is voted in that is unconstitutional, the Constitution trumps the vote. IMO, this happened here.
I can't completely disagree with that, but then again, I don't feel it's a constitutional right to smoke. If the constitution protects something as dangerous and deadly as cigarettes, than it should protect something as innocent and non-lethal as marijuana. IMO!
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Exactly. It was put to a vote. The votes were counted. It was enacted.
Was the wording on the ballot precise enough? That could be debated, but the vote was taken nonetheless.
Now, if it were to come to a vote again, with more precise language as to what exactly it pertained to, and it passes again(the ban), so be it.
I don't like gov't. telling people how to run their businesses. I do like democracy - the voters telling the gov't. what they want and don't want.
Arch...mark this date down! WE ARE IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT! 
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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If the constitution protects something as dangerous and deadly as cigarettes
The constitution isn't protecting cigarettes....
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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We view the issue differently. You view it as protecting people from health hazards. I view it as making something that is ILLEGAL everywhere else, and making it illegal and taking the choice from the business owner, violating their rights and, in a round about way, discriminating and hindering their right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
To me, it's not an issue about smoking. It's about taking the choice out of a person's hands on how to run their business with a LEGAL activity that only becomes illegal on their property.
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I don't like gov't. telling people how to run their businesses. I do like democracy - the voters telling the gov't. what they want and don't want.
Even when that hurts the businesses?  IMO, "the people" have no need to butt in to how I run a business as long as I'm within my legal rights. Smoking is legal. The end.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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If the constitution protects something as dangerous and deadly as cigarettes
The constitution isn't protecting cigarettes....
My point exactly
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Ah, you agree with me more than you let on. I know it.
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Where have you been all day? You just summed up all my arguements with that simple post. Thank you LOL
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Ah, you agree with me more than you let on. I know it.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhh....don't tell anybody... 
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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My personal preference is that all places be smoke free, thats my choice, the majority of people(who voted anyways) felt the same way. Others(smokers) have a different preference. If they become the majority then maybe the law will be overturned. Thats how democracy works right??
I think it just may be overturned. A lot of the people who voted for this didn't realize the extent of the banning and were sorry they voted for it. They didn't do their homework and fell for the misleading ads, such as "common sense smoking law". I even know some smokers that voted for it out of ignorance.
Say what you will, but I know for a fact that a lot of bars and bowling alleys in my area have lost substantial business since this law went into effect.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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ay what you will, but I know for a fact that a lot of bars and bowling alleys in my area have lost substantial business since this law went into effect.
I have yet to understand why. This isn't a ban on drinking or bowling. So let me get this straight. Because you can't smoke in a bowling alley, you can't bowl now? Because you can't smoke in a bar, you can't get drunk now?
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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