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I just want to highlight one more thing about why nitpicking can be a good thing...
A few years ago I believe it was, Peyton Manning spent a whole offseason working on throwing on the run.
Peyton Manning. Mr. Perfect QB. Mr. Intelligent Film Study Strong Arm Deadly Accurate QB...I think you get my drift.
He STILL worked on improving weaknesses in his game, he still pointed them out and worked on them.
DA has a LOT more weaknesses than Manning. Quinn does as well. Kosar and Sipe did too for that matter.
I'm not gonna settle with "being happy" until I see some ungodly stat of 4200 yards passing 67% completion, 40 TD's, 10 INT's.
Until then, there's room for improvement.
(and for the love of God don't take my "stats" seriously, stats are for losers, I'm assuming the fictional film accompanying it matches the stats)
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"Seems it's okay to overlook BE's deficiency, and even "poo poo" it, but when it comes to DA, people want to nit pick every thing about him..."
Possibly true for some on here, but I see it a little differently, Arch.
Browns fans are reg'lar folks just like any other. They'll skew stats, spin like tops, and play "what-if's" forever... in an attempt to fortify their opinions. Happens everywhere with everyone. Need proof? Just drop into a political/social debate in the Tailgate, and you'll see it- in spades.
This thread, the BE thread and the endless '02-'04 Couch/Holcomb "deadbates" are no different.
I usually 'lurk' these threads without saying much... because I've seen that so little comes from them. Dawgs are entrenched in their opinions, and nothing will shake them. Until, that is, the player:
blows up
blows out
gets traded
drops from the league.
For me, it's never OK to take the good without looking at the bad, but I see more good than bad in each of those two examples. See more good than bad pretty much everywhere else, too.... Which makes a great segue to your next quote:
Quote:
"Damn, I get sick of hearing all this negativity."
My personal bottom line is this:
1. BE caught enough balls to help this team get on the "Respectability Charts" for the first time since the return.
2. He was able to do it because of the number of times DA connected with him.
3. Same can be said of K2, JJ, Heiden, Jamal and even Lawrence Vickers at times. ALL of them helped us... because DA helped them- in spite of his deficiencies.
Considering the dreck we were forced to watch from '99 to '06, I'd say that's cause for fan celebration- not grousing about nit-picky weak points.
BOTH need to work on their game(s). BOTH need to continue improving. That's just real life.... in ANY job.
I won't trash either for not being perfect, but I will watch both to see if either can improve his game. In short- DA is (possibly) a young Brett Favre, and BE is (possibly) a young Jerry Rice. None of us knows for sure, because none of us has the perfect crystal ball. They each show the potential, however.....
...and we get to see them in their early years- before they become household names- wearing OUR COLORS.
Screw the debates about minutea. I'm having a blast watching these kids come into their own on a national stage. For me, it's tremendously exciting, and still smacks of endless possibility... despite their respective shortcomings.
I've made a conscious decision to be positive about our players for '08 and beyond. They've finally earned it from me.
As a fan, it's the least I can do for them.
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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You know Heldawg and Ammo have a point, and they explained it really well. And it's valid. Doesn't mean he's not starting caliber, but it is an observation with merit.
Never did I say it didn't have merit,, but I still find it unbelieveable that this is what some key on. In the pureist sense, maybe his long ball isn't perfect, but look at the record, it gets to where it's supposed to go and most times, it's delievered in a area where only the intended receiver can get it.
I mean, there is only so much screwing around with a guys mechanics you can do before you screw up the guy totally.
It's like trying to get Kosar to stop throwing sidearm.. it's ugly, looks stupid, but damn if it wasn't effective.
Sometimes, you take the good with the bad.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Personally...  I don't give a damn if he throws UNDERHAND as long as it's complete... 
Go Browns!!!
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BINGO,,,, 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Clemdawg that is the best breakdown I have seen, you nailed it brother, I applaud your fandom, and wished more would look for the good. I can't disagree with anything you said.
My thoughts are that DA was what was right about the Browns last season not a part of what was wrong. Playing the position on the team that recieves the most interest he has been picked to pieces. Some fair, most not fair. It is what it is, he is young and learning and while he wasn't perfect he did pretty darned good. I hope for better, and applaud his efforts to this point, and I am very encouraged by his attitude and willingness to work to get better. Thats all we any of us have a right to expect, from ourselfs as well.
I want to add this I really like what I am hearing from DA, it really looks like he has assumed a big big leadership roll with the entire offense this season. When I heard his interview from yesturday about pulling BE to the side and letting him know what he expected and doing the same with Stallworth, I know this kid has really improved in every area.
Last point, it truly is time to put the knife away and show DA we THE FANS support him and the Browns as a team. It truly is important to the player and the team..
JMHO
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Holy Schnikees Clem,, I believe you have hit the nail squarely on the head.. You summed up my feelings in a way that I could not have done.. Thanks,,,, you are forever (or at least this week) My Hero 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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For me, it's never OK to take the good without looking at the bad
Quite honestly, those are the single most important words you said in that entire post, particularly as it applies to this message board.
And that's all I've been doing in the BE thread and that's all Ammo and Heldawg did here. The problem is when the negative gets used to fuel agenda, and I just don't see it in either thread - or at least from the posters I just mentioned.
Quite honestly, we just stated facts. If there are no room for facts on this board, then what are we left with.
The people that get all upset and perceive this as undue negativity are just being sensitive. I get a chuckle out of the 'I'm tired of all this negativity' comments on a message board designed to discuss differing views and opinions. Maybe we should learn to separate the constructive with the destructive before we get our panties in a wad. As a matter of fact, Heldawg and Ammo's comments were not just factual but rather educational as well. Instead of being perceived that way, many push the sensitivity button. That's what I don't understand.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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"One thing I noticed during family night...Anderson's deep ball looked a LOT better. There was more air under it. It was apparent on the throw to Edwards and the throw to Stallworth."
In the Off season while critiquing DA and spelling it out of course being called a Brady Brat among other names. I stated that his touch passes can be improved and that I thought DA would definitely improve in these areas.
Touch passes in those cases explained included the Long Bomb which I too thought he was not that good at. Too many wide open WRs having to Dive for the ball and roll into the endzone. Too many??? well twice is too many once with BE and once with Carter. Once in a while he'd throw a nice one with air under it but that might have been around the same with the Dive and roll TD, close to twice but it could have been 3. Touch is to still lead the WR but let him adjust to the ball at his own judgment and time the jump for the ball (in tight coverage) or just catch it in stride. This is done by practicing not hitting the WR but hitting a spot on the field by putting a drum there. Both drill for Bombs and Corner Fade routes...both dealing with touch and ball in the air.
DA's improvements that I expected...and didn't expect for us to see was spelled out and now its coming to fruition. The reason I'm getting into this is because I'm sure the DA crowd will be stating how wrong I was regarding him not improving. Cause as usual they read what they wanted to read and interpreted it the way they wanted to. I spelled it out. Touch passes I expected improvement by DA. It the passes that entailed him improving his FOOTWORK as the culprit that I thought DA might struggle with. And those we can't see until the REAL GAMES....with REAL PRESSURE where he has to move laterally. Where teams will take away his primary target of 15+ yards and force him to check down underneath where he might have to rotate his feet angle/shoulder angle to be more accurate.
And this does not mean the short passes that are his primary target where he simply drops back 3 steps and fires away. Those become completed and some will claim...See he's great on the short passes too. Those are not the ones that I'm talking about. I'm talking about what makes a great QB that...GREAT! Its what DA has to prove to me a fan that he is the FRANCHISE QB....and Great! Simply cause a Dynasty like the one we are building deserves it...and it Multiplies the odds of success.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
New Browns defensive end Corey Williams spent the last four years practicing against Brett Favre in Green Bay. How does Anderson's "fastball" compare with Favre's?
I think the difference between Anderson and Favre is this:
When Favre throws a laser, it looks like he's putting everything into it. He twerks his whole body.
Anderson's throws look pretty effortless sometimes.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Quote:
The people that get all upset and perceive this as undue negativity are just being sensitive. I get a chuckle out of the 'I'm tired of all this negativity' comments on a message board designed to discuss differing views and opinions. Maybe we should learn to separate the constructive with the destructive before we get our panties in a wad. As a matter of fact, Heldawg and Ammo's comments were not just factual but rather educational as well. Instead of being perceived that way, many push the sensitivity button. That's what I don't understand.
I agree with the idea that everyone has a right to state their opinion 1000%, even if I don't happen to agree, or if I see their POV as being unfair, twisted, or anything but truthful. Thats for those that read the post to decide how much wieght they wish to give the posters POV.
However, I do see posters that are still making the same comments now they were back in Feb and March, I have even fallen victum to doing it myself. And that along with several other reasons led me to stay away from the boards completely.
For instance Eotab is still saying the same things now he was saying back then. Now that may lead many to believe that he is consistant or persistant, but it gets booooooooring after a while. Those that think BQ is the guy, and those that think DA is the guy aren't buying in becuase you repeat the same old same old, over and over again.
JMHTake
BTTB
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AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Too many people take this board way too seriously. Instead of debates and discussion, you have people telling other people how they should think or what should be important to them. You have people leaving for periods of time because they feel everyone else is beneath them or they are tired of the negativity or whatever. It's silly.
I get caught up in it sometimes too. But it seems like too many times there is opportunity for real debate, yet because people are too emotionally wound into the situation or they want everyone to think and feel the exact same way that they do, instead of debate we get silliness.
I mean isn't it a good debate on whether or not BE needs to drop less passes - he led the league in drops last year. Seems like a good topic. Isn't it a good debate to talk about DA's long ball? Some posters have pointed out some deficiencies in it. To say someone is nitpicking ... well, that's not debating. That's emotions coming through or someone looking for an argument.
I don't know. Seems like you can't point out anything negative on this board without the negativity police coming out in full force. Defeats the purpose of the board if you ask me.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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All Pro
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You Arch and Clem make great points... You all seem to be, IMO, looking at the entire situations and making overall, mostly all encompassing views.
What gets very tiresome is the cliqueness, social acceptance and the us against them mentality amongst ourselves on this board... I take time away from here for many reasons… They are viable reasons and good for all. IMO.
I believe that it's more than OK to be emotional about our team. It's OK to call BS at anytime here, for appropriate reasons. It's OK to point out that someone is being what ever they are being... Nit-picking or what ever... We all need check ups form the neck ups in all phases of our lives.
We should be negative and point out the good and the bad, when ever we want. As long as we are not hurting anyone or unjustly attacking anyone. JMO.
So far, initially it seems as though DA's areas of improvement have been focused on. He has improved in some of the areas he needed too. DA needs to continue to improve. He has shown that he will put in the time and work to do so. Just like some here have been pointing for some time...
It's still very early in camp, but the folks that were on the BQ will shred DA in camp bus, seem nowhere to be found... Or are flying very low, if at all...
Many here have been saying since BE was drafted that he doesn't catch the ball consistently... He has improved too. But he has much room for improvement... BE does get more love than DA, which is interesting... To me... Because they both came together last season and have shown they need each other and the other 9 on O to be successful. Just some other thoughts and views... Until next time,
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Fine post.
You even spelled seg-way correctly.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I think it boils down to this.
Some wear orange and Brown glasses. While some actually study, watch and critique things.
The O&B glasses group, tell those of us who actually "break down the strengths and weaknesses" that we are negative. That we don't support DA. That we are haters, coddlers, etc....
Like it or not, DA's "weaknesses" are or were many. An environment has been created that can "breed success".
ie....... Solid RB, GREAT OL! BE,KW2 as targets. This is "the perfect environment" for a QB to succeed.
So the real question is a legitimate one. Will we see the DA of Cinci and the Pro Bowl? Or will we see an "improved DA"?
Despite what anyone says, the jury is still out on those questions. You would have thought DA would have struggled early, and improved as the year went on. But we saw the opposite effect.
So we're watching and waiting. As Browns fans, with DA as our currently named starter, we certainly hope for the best.
But nitpicking and negativity?
It's not "nitpicking" when his poorest stats are short passes. It's not "nitpicking" to wonder what can or will happen if the injury bug hits the OL and DA is forced to roll out or scramble. It's not "nitpicking" to wonder if we'll see the DA of the Cinci/Pro Bowl, or a much improved DA.
Facts and legitimate concerns aren't "nitpicking". They are reality based concerns. We all "hope" for the best. But there are many questions to be answerred. And that's not "nitpicking nor is it being Negative".
Sometimes reality BITES! But it's reality none the less. So the jury is still out while we hope for the best.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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So...somebody PLEASE tell me or show me what Brady has done, and/or proven, that makes him a better option than DA!!
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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So...somebody PLEASE tell me or show me what Brady has done, and/or proven, that makes him a better option than DA!!
And who said he was? I've re-read my post SEVERAL times and for the life of me, can't see where that was stated.
I can say this. With the investment in draft picks to move up to aquire him, maybe you should defer that question to Phil Savage?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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That wasn't necessarily directed at you, but for all of those that seem to think that Brady is the man.
I'm just looking for evidence of that.
If I could talk to Phil Savage...why would I talk to anyone on this board?!?!?!
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Pit, I thought that was a really good post. In Due Time, this made me chuckle. Thanks for the laugh. Quote:
If I could talk to Phil Savage...why would I talk to anyone on this board?!?!?!
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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You're more than welcome! Thanks for getting my name right!
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Quote:
Quote:
So...somebody PLEASE tell me or show me what Brady has done, and/or proven, that makes him a better option than DA!!
And who said he was? I've re-read my post SEVERAL times and for the life of me, can't see where that was stated.
I can say this. With the investment in draft picks to move up to aquire him, maybe you should defer that question to Phil Savage?
Nice post ndutyme - I agree. What has Quinn done to show he's better than DA? Apparently nothing, since Q didn't start last year, and as of now he's not starting this year. Perhaps the coaches (you know, the guys that know football - the guys that watch the practices, watch the tapes of the practices, and re watch the tapes of the practices, at this point anyway) perhaps the coaches see something we as fans don't. The ability to help a team win.
Here's the low down: our coaches jobs depend on winning. Does anyone, for even a second, think that our current coaches are going to play a second best player simply because of name or contract, over a better performer?
Pit, I have a feeling DA was brought here originally to be a back up. Quinn was drafted because the front office thought he would help the team. Now, that may happen in the future - we'll find out soon enough. However, NO ONE foresaw DA having the year he did last year. See, that threw a new wrinkle into the plan.
You can accept that as fact, which it is, or you can continue to state your personal opinion that Quinn is better than DA. (not that you have in this thread, but you have repeatedly in the last year). Doesn't matter either way. You don't have any say in it, just as I don't, and just as no one on this board does.
I'll take the coaches opinion over any one on here. If and when they change their mind, I'll go with that and be just as happy then as I am now. As long as we're improving and winning.
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I'm with you 100% on your post and actually share the same feelings. However, that doesn't put the DA vs. BQ topic above debate, and it certainly doesn't excuse DA from criticism.
It's just that the pro-Quinn guys don't have a lot of bullets to bring to the fight because the guy has barely played. So they use DA's shortcomings to build Quinn up. (Pit, that wasn't necessarily directed at you.)
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
So...somebody PLEASE tell me or show me what Brady has done, and/or proven, that makes him a better option than DA!!
My feeling is whomever the backup is, they better be ready in case DA gets another case of the stinks this season. I don't care if it's Quinn, Manning, or Joe Blow...just be ready. This is more about DA than BQ, trust me.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Quote:
Quote:
So...somebody PLEASE tell me or show me what Brady has done, and/or proven, that makes him a better option than DA!!
My feeling is whomever the backup is, they better be ready in case DA gets another case of the stinks this season. I don't care if it's Quinn, Manning, or Joe Blow...just be ready. This is more about DA than BQ, trust me.
The only way a backup sees the field this year, is if DA gets hurt.
You don't bench a QB that throws for over 3,000 yards, and 29 TD's...makes it to the Pro Bowl...and was the lightning rod from you going 4-12 to 10-6...at the first sign of trouble
You'd be a pretty unpopular coach.
So far this offseason, Quinn has yet to overwhelm me, not that my opinion matters to anyone but me!
DA is our starting QB...and personally, I prefer him to Quinn.
DA can develop his short game and get good at it...Quinn may never develop the vertical game. JMO
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I agree, there is not a short a leash here IMO. RAC would lose the faith of the veterans pretty quickly I'd think if he yanked a player like that. Either way though, I think we're going to end up seeing Quinn simply because we are facing a lot of teams this year that can bring some serious pressure... so the odds of Derek taking some lumps are up dramatically. All it takes is hitting a thumb on a helmet and he's out. I'm glad that we have such a problem with 2 QB's 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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The only way a backup sees the field this year, is if DA gets hurt.
Right. Why would anyone assume otherwise?
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You don't bench a QB that throws for over 3,000 yards, and 29 TD's...makes it to the Pro Bowl...and was the lightning rod from you going 4-12 to 10-6...at the first sign of trouble
How long do you wait?
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So far this offseason, Quinn has yet to overwhelm me, not that my opinion matters to anyone but me!
Same here, but again, this isn't about Quinn...it's about Anderson.
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DA is our starting QB...and personally, I prefer him to Quinn.
As do I if he is the better QB.
Again, my feelings are this QB "debate" isn't as much about wanting Quinn to start as it is not wanting to see again what we saw from Anderson the second half of last season. At least that's all it is for me. I'll let you guys keep arguing about it, but in the end, as long as our best quarterback is on the field, that's all I care about.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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as it is not wanting to see again what we saw from Anderson the second half of last season.
Just curious if you have gone back and re-watched any of the games from the 2nd half of last season.
I ask because I was in the same camp as everyone else thinking that DA stunk it up and really regressed. But I've gone back and rewatched many of the games. While DA did commit more bad throws than he probably did at the beginning of the season, he also made some extremely beautiful throws. All in all, I no longer believe he played as bad as people originally thought. The Arizona game is considered one of his worst - he did have some bad throws that game - he also had some really, really good ones.
I just think that upon further reflection and watching after my emotions had left the building, I got a different perspective.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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The Arizona game is considered one of his worst - he did have some bad throws that game - he also had some really, really good ones.
Yeah, and I happened to go to that game with my wife and daughter. Talk about a bummer. Got there early Sat morning and it RAINED in the desert all day!!!! Left bright and early monday morning. Next time we do a road trip we're spending more time where ever it is.
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No, I don't have a way to do that or I would be happy to.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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You can accept that as fact, which it is, or you can continue to state your personal opinion that Quinn is better than DA. (not that you have in this thread, but you have repeatedly in the last year). Doesn't matter either way. You don't have any say in it, just as I don't, and just as no one on this board does.
I have never said that.
What I HAVE said, is that by all that is logical, our GM saw GREAT potential upside in Quinn that he didn't see here in anyone else.
His overall skill set is better. Mobility, touch and much more.
Now will that come to fruition? Who knows? Will DA flop this year? Who knows? Will DA show marked improvement? Who knows?
I don't. And you don't either.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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No, I don't have a way to do that or I would be happy to.
DVR!!!
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Ah, but then there's Sunday Ticket costs because I live in Bengals territory. Going to the bar every week is cheaper.
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I honestly don't think going to the bar every week would be cheaper than getting the Sunday Ticket, not for me anyway. I'd eat and drink too much. 
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Again, my feelings are this QB "debate" isn't as much about wanting Quinn to start as it is not wanting to see again what we saw from Anderson the second half of last season. At least that's all it is for me. I'll let you guys keep arguing about it, but in the end, as long as our best quarterback is on the field, that's all I care about.
PURR-FECT-LY Said u Precious Dollface!!!...
Go Browns!!!
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You don't bench a QB that throws for over 3,000 yards, and 29 TD's...makes it to the Pro Bowl...and was the lightning rod from you going 4-12 to 10-6...at the first sign of trouble
You do if and or when he "stinks up the joint". He's not Brett Favre. He isn't our "annointed franchise QB" or he would have gotten MUCH more than a three year deal.
So far? He's a "majority of a season one hit wonder".
If he blows chunks, his leash won't be that long as you think it may be. His first few starts? He blew chunks. The end of last year? He blew chunks.
So which one of those DA's we see will determine a lot. Savage nor Crennel will start 0-3 without changing things. He hasn't been "annointed" anything yet accept "the current starter status".
Don't make it out to be more than it is.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Here is where some of you are either completely clueless or you are purposely acting dumb so you won't have to admit anything good about DA and nothing bad about BQ.
DA has been named the starter because he has been kicking BQ's ass all along. It has been a competition and it will continue to be a competition. It is just that it hasn't been close.
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That's odd. Because I have sources telling me JUST THE OPPOSITE!
That Quinn has met and far exceeded the Browns expectations. That their WILL BE an open competition and that they fully expect BQ to win it!
You stick with your sources and I'll stick with mine. It won't be that long until we find out which one of us has the most accurate source now will it?
This is a little banter between you and Vers. Whay are your sources saying now?
I find Michelle to be very credible when she states she just wants the best QB to start. I think Quinn is who she thinks is better, but if DA is better she will be happy.
You on the other hand, no credibility. You have dissed DA every chance you get for every little thing. It goes beyond critism. It seems obvious to me that you want to see Quinn play. You think he has a better skill set, and have used the fact that he was a 1st round pick to suggest he will be better. The fact is to this point (it is still extremely early) DA is out playing Quinn. Some come up with the excuse "The only reason is because there is no pressure." Also I have read this, "DA would not be doing as well if it was an open competetion. The guys gets no credit from the likes of you. The most I remeber you saying good about him is that he has a strong arm and quick release.
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You do if and or when he "stinks up the joint". He's not Brett Favre. He isn't our "annointed franchise QB" or he would have gotten MUCH more than a three year deal.
So far? He's a "majority of a season one hit wonder".
If he blows chunks, his leash won't be that long as you think it may be. His first few starts? He blew chunks. The end of last year? He blew chunks.
So which one of those DA's we see will determine a lot. Savage nor Crennel will start 0-3 without changing things. He hasn't been "annointed" anything yet accept "the current starter status".
Don't make it out to be more than it is.
You would be wise to follow you're own advice...Which Quinn will we see...the one that threw 8 passes or the one the threw none?
What if we start 0-3 and it has nothing to do with DA....do we still bench him?
His leash will be quite lengthy...why...BECAUSE HE EARNED IT!!
If Quinn had done what DA did last year, then the shoe would be on the other foot.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I think it boils down to this.
Some wear orange and Brown glasses. While some actually study, watch and critique things.
The O&B glasses group, tell those of us who actually "break down the strengths and weaknesses" that we are negative. That we don't support DA. That we are haters, coddlers, etc....
Not really responding to you per se, Pit, but your comment here gives me pause and reason to comment on all the comments regarding those who analyze -vs- those with "agendas". (Whatever that means).
Here's a guy, a starting QB, with no mobility, had a terrible side-arm throwing motion, was constantly getting passes batted into his face, couldn't throw a decent long ball, threw 8 TDs & 7 INTs his first year and 17 TDs & 10 INTs his second year. He made the Pro Bowl his third year while throwing 22 TDs & 9 INTs, but had decreased production every year after that and never made the Pro Bowl again. He had a completion percentage of 54% his 6th year, and while he consistently made the playoffs, was never able to get past the team's nemesis and make it to the Super Bowl. Yet he has attained god-like status as a hero of Browns football. Anyone care to guess who this is?
To sit here and read all this drivel about how certain fans pretend to be more knowledgeable because they think their objective assessments means more than the other kool-aid drinking, orange glasses wearing fans is hilarious. Especially when discussing a Pro-Bowler who threw 29 TDs and took us to the first 10-6 season since the return like he has all these untenable flaws.
His short game? Please. The arc on his long ball? Oh my god... It was the man's first year as a starter, being coached up, working with the receivers and the system. To me, this oh me, oh my, "what if" stuff is pure nonsense. The monkey-chatter about his fall off at the end of the season is nonsense. He went 3 of four the last four games, winning two in terrible weather. Yet Cincy & the Pro-Bowl performances are hallmark indicators of the man's true ability? Nonsense.
Objective assessment has very little to do with fandom in the broad sense, most fans either love a guy or they don't. Or they love him until they don't. Personally, I think Bernie Joseph Kosar Jr. sucked, I never liked the player (separate from the person) from day one, and I've stated my reasons why. Am I wrong because he was a good guy, a smart guy, and a hero who went to the playoffs? Am I wrong to think DA is a really good QB because of his arc or his short throws? Is this part of some agenda? Simple answer is NO.
There's no agenda, I'm not wrong, and I'm not wearing any kind of colored glasses. The guy is a good, potentially great QB, on a good, potentially great team. Does he need work? Sure. Are there aspects of his game that need improving. Absolutely. Are his weaknesses many? No, I don't think so. Not comparatively. Not when stacked against his strengths. Do I think he's better than BQ? Not right now. Did I last year? Absolutely. Do I want BQ to start over DA because of DA's arc and short throwing ability? No-freakin'-way. Can any of the studying, watching, critiquing analysis experts tell me he has not improved in his weaker areas? Not one of them can. Not one.
Like I said, this isn't directed at you specifically, Pit... I get your overall message, but call B.S. on this entire discussion because as objective as some pretend to be, nobody really knows anything about how he's improved or how he'll do this season, and perpetuating history (like his short throw percentage or his Pro-Bowl appearance) as relevant fact is nonsense. Yes, I'd even call it nitpicking.
JMHO... Let 'er rip, boys 'n girls.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I find Michelle to be very credible when she states she just wants the best QB to start. I think Quinn is who she thinks is better, but if DA is better she will be happy.
Wrong. I don't know jack about Quinn to say he's better or worse. Of course, I don't feel like I know much more than that about Anderson. I'm just going to watch it play out. I will say that if Anderson has a slump like last season, I want the backup (again, could be anyone) to play.
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Can't do - His best characteristics are intangibles that can be seen only on the field of action. Fact is we do not know 100% about anything regarding BQ cause like DA it has to be seen on the field (improvements).
BQ should be getting a lot of reps as all Backup QBs do in the Pre-season. We should be able to see a little more of what he can bring. But still there will be a Little ? or a Big ? until he brings it on the field for regular season.
I myself feel that he can be the Franchise QB of the future. I'm willing to see the improvements of DA in 08 cause he might be the ONE! Even though I'm classed and have been insulted as a Brady Brat... A DA Hater... Not a good fan and a Hypocrite cause I don't back DA with all my heart (actually I do...but thats when he plays, not in the off season.) But not once can anyone read a post of mine on this DEADBATE stating that I want BQ to be our starter.
I have stated simply that we have questions about DA...even the coaches and Savage as we signed him only to a 3 year contract with a built in trade loophole if we should choose to use it after this season. We have Questions and are giving DA all the opportunity to answer them. We have to get this right.
I have also stated that if BQ plays lights out in practice and in Pre-season all that will do will narrow the Window of opportunity for DA. DA pretty much has the starting position locked up and is not a bum who will play bad enough to change that.
I just don't understand that when I post my opinion and back it with what I see and lay it out with football. I simply do not get debated. I get rediculed. I get insulted. But I don't get football. 
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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