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Forbes claims Canton is dying By G. PATRICK KELLEY REPOSITORY BUSINESS EDITOR Canton is getting unwanted national attention after Forbes.com put the city and three others in Ohio on its "America's Fastest-Dying Cities" list. Although Canton got the tag and the title, the figures the magazine actually used come from the U.S. Census Bureau's Canton-Massillon metropolitan statistical area, which includes all of Stark and Carroll counties. "They're trying to sell magazines, and I understand that," said Mayor William J. Healy II. "They're using numbers from 2001 and 2005," and "I don't particularly care to talk about the past anymore" because he campaigned on changing things, the mayor said. "There's no doubt the economy's off, not only here in Stark County, but across the country," said Todd Bosley, one of the three Stark County commissioners. "We're working to address economic development. There's a lot of good things going on here now." THREE OTHERS FROM OHIO Youngstown, Dayton and Cleveland also made the list, giving Ohio the most cities on the 10-city list. Michigan was second, with Detroit and Flint. Forbes did not rank a No. 1 or differentiate the 10 chosen. "Despite a decade of national prosperity, the former manufacturing backbone of the U.S. is in rougher shape than ever, still searching for some way to replace its long-stilled smokestacks," wrote Forbes Washington correspondent Joshua Zumbrun. That's going to change, said Healy. "There are hundreds of millions of dollars in development money on the table, and that's going to be the beginning of the turnaround for Canton," he said. "We're coming off one of the biggest and most successful Hall of Fame festivals we've ever had ... that's the type of thing that's going to help us," he said. Healy said there's even more exciting news for the area. The National Football League and the Pro Football Hall of Fame have combined to help bring the Junior American Football World Games here in 2009. Eight international teams will compete in the last week of June and the first week of July. He also cited the new federal building, the Onesto Hotel and the Hercules project as developments that will change downtown. PLAY TO STRENGTHS Bosley said the area needs to sell its attributes: Good water, a good labor force, Akron-Canton Airport and the highway system. "We've worked to improve the infrastructure even during the down years," he said. There are always going to be down years, but "you change that by attracting companies to employ people. We're laying out a plan to bring companies to Stark County. We can change it. It's just going to take some time." The brief Forbes story on Canton said that 7,807 people have left since 2000, but the total population is 212 higher. The area's annual gross domestic product growth of 0.7 percent in 2005 was one of the worst on the list, but its June unemployment rate of 6.7 percent (the 2000 average was 4.2) was on the top half of the list. "Like many cities on our list, the Canton-Massillon area has been victim to the decline of the so-called Rust Belt," the article said. "A once-booming iron and steel industry has been in terminal decline for years. But the decline of steel has not left the region without any jobs. Canton and nearby Akron are home to industrial parts manufacturer Timken, security firm Diebold, Goodyear Tires and First Energy." Reach Repository Business Editor Pat Kelley at (330) 580-8323 or e-mail: pat.kelley@cantonrep.com Quote:
For the complete list, please go to link, as I thought the post would be too long.
LINK 
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The area has been in decline for decades. I don't know how this is news.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Forbes Claims Canton, Cleveland and Youngstown Are Dying!
And Dayton.....
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The area has been in decline for decades. I don't know how this is news.
Akron and Canton have been declining, but not terribly.
But, then again, anything looks better when compared to Youngstown. Tough to look all that good with a 52% illiteracy rate and your city officials not long ago advertised to Hollywood that they could come in and use the city's neighborhoods for special effects.
Literally, the city of Youngstown told Hollywood they could come in and blow up some of the neighborhoods for free (the uninhabited parts, which are huge). That way, the city wouldn't have to pay for them to be demolished.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Exactly, the whole "rust-belt" has been in decline with the changes in manufacturing and technology.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Northwest Ohio isnt to real well either, it seems like for every industry that moves out it's replaced with 30 fast food jobs, Working Automotive industry isnt a real safe area of employment these days anyway.
I love this area of Ohio, we have some of the best fishng with Lake Erie Detroit River, Lake St. Clair only a few hours away to desent hunting for Whitetail and it's getting better every year, Weathers pretty good, but it's tuff all over, it's not just big cities that are dying it's small towns and the country in general.
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I've lived in this area since 1973.... Forbes should tell me something I don't know... Geez.. are these guys behind the times or what?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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With Cleveland, Detroit, and Flint on the that list...I would imagine that Toledo and Sandusky would be in somewhat bad shape too.
Pretty soon, the only thing in Sandusky will be Cedar Point.
I was born and raised in Cleveland, and I LOVE my city...but I will NEVER live there again due to the lack of a stable economy and job opportunities. Meanwhile, Columbus is getting a rep for a city on the rise.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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It has been just the opposite experience for me since leaving Ohio. After being out of college 5 years and I saw the writing on the wall for Ohio back in 1981 and so headed out here to Arizona. The city where I now live (Chandler) had a population of just over 30,000 when I bought this house in '83. Now we're up to 240,500 and ranked #30 on Money magazine's 2008 best places to live.
When the heat gets to me I take a few days off (like starting today) and drive 2 hours north to Flagstaff where the high's will be in th mid-70's.
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Meanwhile, Columbus is getting a rep for a city on the rise.
It's true, I liv here now why?
Jobs!
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It is true, if I was in need of a job and with Columbus only being about an hour away, that's the first place I'd look right now.
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Pretty soon, the only thing in Sandusky will be Cedar Point.
One of the truest statements from 1980. 
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It is true, if I was in need of a job and with Columbus only being about an hour away, that's the first place I'd look right now.
Pretty much like that in any state. As things turn down in any state, they seem to go to great lengths to support the Capitol city.
Nashville seems to get everything. I was surprised we landed the new VW plant a few weeks back, a billion dollar investment, but Nashville wasn't in the mix so we got much support from them.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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This just in - Cleveland, Canton, and Youngstown just put out a press release saying Forbes is dying. Up theirs.
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web page 'FORBES' MAGAZINE Four cities from Ohio on list of fast-dying Wednesday, August 6, 2008 3:19 AM By Dan Gearino THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH 'Top' 10 cities Forbes magazine's "fastest-dying" cities, in alphabetical order: Buffalo, N.Y. Canton Charleston, W.Va. Cleveland Dayton Detroit Flint, Mich. Scranton, Pa. Springfield, Mass. Youngstown Here's one top 10 list Ohio probably would rather not be on: Forbes magazine says four of America's fastest-dying cities are in the Buckeye State. Canton, Cleveland, Dayton and Youngstown win that distinction by virtue of population loss and sluggish gains in economic activity. The report cites statistics from the Census Bureau, the Bureau of Economic Analysis and the Bureau of Labor Statistics. "Despite a decade of national prosperity, the former manufacturing backbone of the U.S. is in rougher shape than ever, still searching for some way to replace its long-stilled smokestacks," said the Forbes article, published online yesterday. Ohio's four cities represent the largest number in any single state. Michigan has two: Detroit and Flint. The assessment is no surprise to Michael Nelson, chairman of the University of Akron Economics Department. "A lot of the old-economy manufacturing has been centered in the Midwest, and that has been a large source of the problem," he said. Forbes has the following to say about the four Ohio cities on the list: Cleveland: "Only Pittsburgh and New Orleans have seen sharper population declines this decade, and New Orleans was because of a natural disaster." Cleveland's population loss: 51,539 since 2000. Youngstown: "It's been many years since the Republic Steel Co. dominated the economy of Youngstown, Ohio, and nearby Warren and Boardman, Ohio." Population loss: 32,260. Dayton: "Dayton has suffered as manufacturing in the region has gradually tapered off. It has been particularly hard hit by the decline in automotive manufacturing." Population loss: 12,616. Canton: "A once-booming iron and steel industry has been in terminal decline for years." Population gain: 212. By contrast, Columbus has gained more than 30,000 residents since 2000. Of the four in decline, Canton had the lowest annual economic growth rate, 0.7 percent, while Dayton and Youngstown each had 1.2 percent annual growth and Cleveland 1.7 percent. Population loss is a long-term trend that refuses to abate, said Claudia Coulton, director of the Center for Urban Poverty and Community Development at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland. And now, the rise in foreclosures has compounded the problem. "I think we're in a point of crisis at this moment," she said. That view isn't shared by everyone. Things aren't so bad in Canton, said Steven Katz, senior vice president of the Canton Regional Chamber of Commerce. He pointed to the Timken Co., a maker of roller bearings, as an example of how local businesses -- even manufacturers -- are thriving. The company reported a 61 percent increase in second-quarter earnings last week. "We're seeing good growth and good activity," he said. And yet, the area took a big hit last year with the closing of the Hoover Co. vacuum-cleaner plant. More than 700 jobs were lost. The Ohio Department of Development shares an upbeat view. "We are doing everything we can to reverse the trend," spokeswoman Kelly Schlissberg said. She cited the recent state economic stimulus legislation as an example of the state being proactive. The $1.6 billion stimulus package includes money for roads and bridges, renewable energy and education programs, among other things. Such spending can create jobs and lure companies into the state. But the Forbes story has a decidedly downbeat tone: "By our measure, (the 10 cities have) struggled the worst of any areas in the nation in the 21st century. And they face even bleaker futures." dgearino@dispatch.com
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Forbes also put out a list saying that Cincinnati is the best city in the country for night life.
Of course things in Cleveland look bleak right now. As we transition from a manufacturing economy to a service economy, people are going to lose their jobs and leave the region. It's going to keep happening for a while too, but sooner or later Cleveland WILL turn the corner. The rise of the healthcare industry in Cleveland is just one piece of the puzzle.
Remember a hundred years ago when people fled the south for the factory jobs in the north? I'm sure people thought then "that the south would die." Well, just look at things now.
If Cleveland could just take a more regional approach we could get there a lot faster. The natural resources we have in our backyard are going to be key in the future.
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The natural resources we have in our backyard are going to be key in the future.
Offshore drilling in Lake Erie?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I was thinking the wind power that we can get from the lake  It seems someone is always doing a study on this, and they always conclude it's a good idea. Why can't we get something started? Cleveland has the natural wind, the manufacturing companies who would love to build turbines, and sea and rail connections. Let's do this already!
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Northwest Ohio isnt to real well either, it seems like for every industry that moves out it's replaced with 30 fast food jobs, Working Automotive industry isnt a real safe area of employment these days anyway.
I love this area of Ohio, we have some of the best fishng with Lake Erie Detroit River, Lake St. Clair only a few hours away to desent hunting for Whitetail and it's getting better every year, Weathers pretty good, but it's tuff all over, it's not just big cities that are dying it's small towns and the country in general.
Interesting little tidbit: A company was very, very serious about moving into Ohio - Archbold as a matter of fact. 500 jobs on day one. Now, with this new paid sick leave deal rearing it's ugly head, the company has decided to locate elsewhere.
Imagine that - just the THREAT of that was enough for the company to change its mind. Imagine how many jobs ohio will lose if it passes. Can't think of the name off the top of my head, but it's something (the proposed law) about Family First - I'm sure someone on here will have the exact name.
Taxes in Ohio are high, now they want to force companies to offer extra benefits. That's all well and good - until the companies move out or close up.
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Forbes magazine's "fastest-dying" cities, in alphabetical order:
Buffalo, N.Y.
Canton
Charleston, W.Va.
Cleveland
Dayton
Detroit
Flint, Mich.
Scranton, Pa.
Springfield, Mass.
Youngstown
Aren't these all Democrat strongholds?
Cause, effect, or non factor?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
Forbes magazine's "fastest-dying" cities, in alphabetical order:
Buffalo, N.Y.
Canton
Charleston, W.Va.
Cleveland
Dayton
Detroit
Flint, Mich.
Scranton, Pa.
Springfield, Mass.
Youngstown
Aren't these all Democrat strongholds?
Cause, effect, or non factor?
Funny how that works isn't it?
As plain as it is to see, too many don't see it.
Unions also fit nicely into this - at one point there was a need for unions. Now? No.
When people take the attitude of "let's take more and more from those that have in order to benefit those that don't", cities, states, businesses and yes even countries - fall flat on their face.
Look at the cities mentioned.
Look at the auto industry.
Look at the steel industry.
And now people seem to want to tax the oil companies out of existence - all the while forgetting that if a company is not profitable, it doesn't employ people.
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Remember how Ungaro got blasted for talking to Republicans? The Dems haven't done anything for the Mahonong Valley. They cry and complain it's all the big bad Republicans keeping us down. The Democratic Party in Ohio doesn't even pay lip service to us anymore. They don't have to worry about our votes. Other parts of Ohio are more in play so that's where their concern is. Hell, they (party hacks...Err, elected officials) wouldn't even meet with canidates (like Bush) when they come through the valley. Tell me how that is ever going to help us. 
#gmstrong
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It's been no secret. Youngstown has known it's been dying for a long time. One day it will turn around. With cost of living so low eventually something will move in...
#gmstrong
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Northwest Ohio isnt to real well either, it seems like for every industry that moves out it's replaced with 30 fast food jobs, Working Automotive industry isnt a real safe area of employment these days anyway.
I love this area of Ohio, we have some of the best fishng with Lake Erie Detroit River, Lake St. Clair only a few hours away to desent hunting for Whitetail and it's getting better every year, Weathers pretty good, but it's tuff all over, it's not just big cities that are dying it's small towns and the country in general.
Interesting little tidbit: A company was very, very serious about moving into Ohio - Archbold as a matter of fact. 500 jobs on day one. Now, with this new paid sick leave deal rearing it's ugly head, the company has decided to locate elsewhere.
Imagine that - just the THREAT of that was enough for the company to change its mind. Imagine how many jobs ohio will lose if it passes. Can't think of the name off the top of my head, but it's something (the proposed law) about Family First - I'm sure someone on here will have the exact name.
Taxes in Ohio are high, now they want to force companies to offer extra benefits. That's all well and good - until the companies move out or close up.
That stupid thing you are talking about Arch will be the straw that breaks the back in Ohio. Owning a business myself, I already have plans to 'get under' the limit so I don't have to comply with this incredibly silly idea.
What's that mean? Some people I have working for me w/ great jobs and pay will no longer have a job when this dumb thing passes (if it does).
And I am just a tiny, tiny, tiny blip on the map.
I find it laughable that Ohio would even CONSIDER passing this forced leave junk when people are having trouble finding good jobs. Unbelievable.
The best part - I was at WMT getting gas over the summer and some people were there getting people to sign the petition for this thing. Their sales pitch - sign this so greedy companies are forced to give you more off time! I just laughed in their face and told them they have no clue what they are doing.
It will sink in if this thing passes and all of a sudden they have the entire year off.
![[Linked Image from i45.tinypic.com]](http://i45.tinypic.com/adhq2o.gif)
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http://www.sickdaysohio.org/There it is for anyone interested. The site makes it sound so great for everyone... They are forgetting to mention that people will lose their jobs as a result of this. Companies can leave Ohio completely, reduce workforce size to comply or put up the extra $$$ to make this work... Hmmm... wonder what most will do...
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Quote:
Interesting little tidbit: A company was very, very serious about moving into Ohio - Archbold as a matter of fact. 500 jobs on day one. Now, with this new paid sick leave deal rearing it's ugly head, the company has decided to locate elsewhere.
Thats killing us also, Were undergoing Union contract negotiations the last two months, and the thought of adding 7 more piad days off will hurt the company I work for. I've talked about this exact situation countless times explaining the amount of impact it will have on just our company, Think about it each employee will recieve 7 days of sick pay, or 56 hours 56 hours x 500 employees and were talking 28,000 hours of sick pay if they make $ 12.00 per hour were talking that company $ 336,000 right off thier bottom line even before they sell one Item. what company now days can do that, not to mention having to hire 2-3 extra per shift for when these sick days are used to cover machines, extra benefits to these 2-3 people.
If this legislation passes, Ohio industry will die, a quarter to half will relocate the work to other factories outside Ohio and the rest will close thier doors,
Some will say this law goes hand in hand with what they already have, and good for them, but Ohioans need to look at the big picture and see what has happened in Archbold, becuase it will happen time & time again in Ohio if this legislation is passes into law. There are a few companies around NWO which have pulled back doing anything until after the election, and we've been told that they can wait but if there is a comparable offer elsewhere while thier waiting they will go. Flat out we've been told that.
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And now people seem to want to tax the oil companies out of existence - all the while forgetting that if a company is not profitable, it doesn't employ people.
I'm sure it a matter of semantics in your wording, but I believe we should tax the oil companies. Not the windfall tax idea, but merely, they should pay the same taxes on their profits, every other American company does.
The government totes a nice line about the independent business owner being the backbone of America, then they tax them to death, while handing out tax credits and rebates to corporations that make more than enough to pay the taxes and still have a healthy profit.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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The company I work for had paid sick days, but they do it in a unique way.
You get 3 days a year, you don't get paid for taking a sick day, what they do is pay you for the days you don't use at the end of the calender year. So if I take a sick day, then come the last week of December, I will get paid for the 2 days I didn't use.
It's incentive to not take sick days unless you truly need them.
I know some big corps that have paid sick days, and I seldom hear about people who take them because they are sick, they are nothing more than alternative vacation days.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Not referring to you Clay but before people start on the union bashing thing. This legislation(which in my opinion is going waaaay overboard) will help union members the least , for the most part. Most union contracts have sick days already written into them already.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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How many sick days for unions? And, are they paid?
My wife works for a large company - they get 3 sick days a year - but they aren't paid. Just basically excused absences. The company she works for has about 2000 emplyoyees now. If this passes, imagine that company - 2000 employees, 7 paid sick days per employee - and let's say an average wage of $14 per hour. Care to do the math?
I will - it's over $1.5 million in paid sick days. (2000 employees times 7 days each times $14 an hour times 8 hours a day).
I'm not counting office people, and I'm being conservative on the number of employees.
To pay over $1.5 million to people to not work is crazy.
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It's been no secret. Youngstown has known it's been dying for a long time. One day it will turn around. With cost of living so low eventually something will move in...
havn't been back for 2 years now. couldn't imagine going back. my dad tells me all the time how bad it is. heck the giant eagle in cornersburg just closed he tolde me. the only businesses in youngstown seem to be a few arab stores, a few bars, and some porno stores. I don't know what business man would want to move in.they could give me all the tax incentives, I would still pass. the employees in the inner city are mostly garbage, 9 out of 10 would rip you off, and leave you hanging.
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jc
If I call off I have to spend vacation time in order to get paid, but I still get an occurence for missing a schduled work day.
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I have known this since 1984.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Oh I agree with you Arch, this is ridiculous, 7 days is way too much and it is going to hurt Ohio business.
I am just saying I think the biggest impact will be in the implementation to non union workers who dont have a contract so may have no paid sick days.I was kind of referring to it in a percentage basis. You are right though,7 days is probably a lot more than most union contracts would call for , except for maybe the big automakers, but their contracts are silly stupid anyways.
I know personally we have a pretty good contract and we get 5 excused absences a year, they are non paid though. We have a point system so you can take 5 days without getting any points, they are called emergency days and you can use them as you see fit with no points on the attendance policy. We have the option of using a vacation day if we want though. I think if this passes it will be interesting to see how it effects workers that have contracts. I think companies will reduce workers vacation time. If you take a paid sick day off you will get one less vacation day.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I think companies will reduce workers vacation time. If you take a paid sick day off you will get one less vacation day.
According to the proposed law - companies will NOT be able to reduce any benefits they currently offer - in other words, if a company were to reduce your vacation time they would be breaking the law.
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But they can reclassify what it's called.
Example
Currently Called : 4 weeks paid vacation
If Legislation is passed : 4 weeks Paid Time Off
Meaning there within the law by not reducing any current benefits, but they can now run the vacation / sick days concurrent with each other, if you call in for a sick day it comes off your Paid Time Off, You no longer have paid days labled Vacation or sick days it's all bundled into one called Paid Time off and how you spend them is up to you.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349 |
Quote:
But they can reclassify what it's called.
Example
Currently Called : 4 weeks paid vacation
If Legislation is passed : 4 weeks Paid Time Off
Meaning there within the law by not reducing any current benefits, but they can now run the vacation / sick days concurrent with each other, if you call in for a sick day it comes off your Paid Time Off, You no longer have paid days labled Vacation or sick days it's all bundled into one called Paid Time off and how you spend them is up to you.
This straight from the mouth of a HR person. If it is passed there will be some interesting legal wrangling. Workers who do not have a contract IE: non union workers will be a lot more exposed to legal loopholes but there will also be some interesting jockeying in complying with the law as well as union contracts. Also comopanies that have attendance "point" systems will have to make some changes to comply with the law. Personally, having 7 paid days off would be nice, but lookng at the grand scheme of things this is a horrible law.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317 |
my company gives us 7 paid sick days per year on top of our vacation, and we're doing pretty good, and we're a plastics company with heavy ties to the auto industry. we're opening up a new plant soon, actually.
the thought of paying people what is basically an extra week of vacation a year ruining companies makes me think these companies are not managed very well at all and have much deeper problems that need addressed.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,032
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,032 |
As others have stated, companies will just change their classification. We have PTO where I work, there is no distinction between vacation or sick time. Wanna get sick a lot? You won't have much time for vacation...
I think people are overblowing this law but I do think it's a bit much. I would make it 5 days. If a place you work at can't handle you not being there for a measly 5 days out of the year they have something wrong. Besides, make it so if you don't take it it will carry over or you'll get paid for it and watch how much people don't use it.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,102
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,102 |
Where I work we get 12 sick days per year (96 hours). The hours of sick time that aren't used carry over to the next year. My total accumulation currently stands at just over 720 hours, which is the maximum accumulation they allow to take into the new year. For example, if I finish the year with 780 hours of accumulated sick leave, on the 1st paystub of the next year sick leave will be reduced to 720 hours. But the nice part about the 60 hours they take away, is that they'll pay me for half of it. So in this example my 1st pay check of the new year will include 30 hours of pay for the 60 hours that was forfeited. Makes it awfully helpful when paying off the credit card bill after Christmas.
While sick leave is suppose to be used only when truly sick they do bend that policy and allow us to convert up to 32 hours of sick time to personal business time.
While I'm not in the union the company passes along to us salary folks the benefits the union negotiates. So to the union I'm very grateful.
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