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j/c
The only thing I want to know is who is for rasing the BAC and who is for getting rid of DUI/DWI.
you had a good run Hank.
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Well, GM, I just did a quick search and found that alcohol consumption is one of the biggest factors in accidents and that 39% of fatal accidents are alcohol related. I didnt' see any stats for a 75 year old, but I would imagine that it's less than 39% of fatal accidents, wouldn't you? Especially since they don't drive over 17 MPH 
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Oh, many people do fine well into their 80's. But like you, I've seen some scary older folks getting their renewed licenses and on the road.
Ban old people!!
Maybe we should I mean take a look at this
How aging affects driving
Physical changes related to growing older can affect driving ability:
Change: Slower reaction time; difficulty focusing on multiple tasks.
Impact: Trouble driving in unfamiliar, congested locales.
Change: Declining vision, especially at night. More likely to be sensitive to glare and to require more light to pick up on contrast. Peripheral vision may decline. Risk of cataracts and glaucoma.
Impact: Difficulty reading signs and seeing other vehicles, pedestrians or other objects in the road.
Change: Deteriorating cognitive skills, such as memory, perception, ability to recognize visual information or to quickly analyze complex situations.
Impact: Harder to judge speed and distance or perceive dangerous conditions. Can lead to crashes at intersections, slow awareness of highway hazards, failure to comply with traffic signals, yield signs and rail crossings.
Change: Limitations in physical movement, such as difficulty turning head, lack of manual dexterity, limited range of motion in arms, shoulders, hips. Reflexes slow.
Impact: Difficulty getting in and out of vehicle. Failure to notice obstacles. Difficulty grasping and turning steering wheel, ignition key and dashboard controls. Problem using brake and gas pedals. Hard to twist torso to look over shoulder when backing up. Can lose critical seconds in emergency situations.
Change: More prone to fatigue.
Impact: Tired on long journeys.
Change: Higher risk of disease and need for medications.
Impact: Numerous illnesses can impede driving, including Alzheimer's, heart disease, Parkinson's, stroke, dementia. Drug side effects can cause drowsiness, nausea, blurred vision, ringing in ears, excitability that can compromise driving skills.
Source: AGS Foundation for Healthy Aging
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I think I have made it clear that I don't think that you should be prosecuted for drinking and driving unless you are actually involved in an accident.
There is still a deterant to driving while intoxicated, in that if you wreck your car you will be charged. But if you are a safe driver, know your limits and navigate home safely, you are not afraid of persecution.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Quote:
Well, GM, I just did a quick search and found that alcohol consumption is one of the biggest factors in accidents and that 39% of fatal accidents are alcohol related. I didnt' see any stats for a 75 year old, but I would imagine that it's less than 39% of fatal accidents, wouldn't you? Especially since they don't drive over 17 MPH
Did you happen to come across any stats on how many of those accidents were caused by drivers who were under a .10 BAC ?
BTW I still drive 35 mph on occasions 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I have to disagree with you Tyler. I do believe there need to be limits. Maybe .12 BAC or .10 BAC but somebody blowing a .20 should never EVER be driving.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
Well, GM, I just did a quick search and found that alcohol consumption is one of the biggest factors in accidents and that 39% of fatal accidents are alcohol related. I didnt' see any stats for a 75 year old, but I would imagine that it's less than 39% of fatal accidents, wouldn't you? Especially since they don't drive over 17 MPH
You may want to check on how some of those studies are interpreted. People should not be blindly following studies, they are often manipulative in nature:
This is from a website of a group with a fairly reasonable approach:
Quote:
Periodically, a member will write and express concern over the NMA's support of "drunk drivers." This is usually motivated by our opposition to some particular anti-DWI initiative.
The NMA does not support, encourage, or condone drunk driving. The NMA supports constructive and effective solutions to the drunk driving problem that are fair, equitable, and respective of fundamental rights.
To better explain the position of our association on this emotionally charged issue, it is important that the problem be properly defined. Thoughtful, objective discussion of this subject in the popular media has been sadly lacking. The press has been content to reprint whatever they receive from self-serving and vested interests.
The result has been a misinformation campaign of staggering magnitude. Claims such as "50% of all highway fatalities are caused by drunk drivers" are unmitigated propaganda. The public officials and special interest groups that perpetuate this myth know it is a lie but persist in this kind of gross deception.
A far more likely estimate of "drunk-driver-caused" fatal accidents is 10%, still a very large and unacceptable number, but not quite the national crisis championed by anti-drinking advocates. What the public has not been told is that the "drunk driver" numbers promoted by these public officials and special interest groups include any person, with any amount of alcohol in his system, who dies in a traffic accident (some exceptions for vehicle passengers). This includes accidents where alcohol impairment was not a causative factor, pedestrians and bicyclists with alcohol in their systems, and suicides. Given that the vast majority of adults in the United States consume some form of alcoholic beverage, it is not unreasonable to expect the presence of alcohol in their blood. Leaping to the conclusion that the presence of alcohol in the blood of an accident victim equates to an alcohol-caused fatality is fundamentally illogical.
I encourage people to check out this site and take a look at their stance on the issue:
http://www.motorists.org/dui/
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No, didn't see that. I did find an answer to your other question. It showed that people over the age of 70 was involved in 1.9% of all accidents, so it would tend to show that it is certainly much lower than alcohol related accidents.
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I just did a quick search and found that alcohol consumption is one of the biggest factors in accidents and that 39% of fatal accidents are alcohol related. I didnt' see any stats for a 75 year old, but I would imagine...
You can find stats on elderly drivers at the DOT website... 
yebat' Putin
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Jules, I would say that this is the most unbiased information out there, considering that they have the BAC level of .08 as the minimum and the percentage of accidents involving those over that limit per state. It's much more than 10% in every state. http://www.edgarsnyder.com/auto-accident/drunk-driving/statistics.htmlAgain, these are stats for accidents that involved only those over .08 BAC. It would be impossible to manipulate this information, IMO.
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Nice website Jules
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I don't have time to read it Coach, but there are ways to manipulate everything. I've heard people I really respect talk on this issue and they claim the numbers you are showing are manipulated by the people and circumstance they throw into them. We aren't going to convince each other, I'm just showing the side I happen to believe is more legitimate and not being politically "overdramatic". Just my opinion. 
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No disrespect ment here Coach, but I just had to  at the thought of trusting a lawyers stats who makes his living sueing people for drunk driving accidents
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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That group is very level headed, IMO.
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But her reflexes were slower at 75 than a younger persons were. Wouldn't that have made her a more dangerous driver than a young person. Wouldn't her reflexes be impaired compared to a younger persons?
This is, for the most part, is true... However, a 75 year old woman is also less likely to be speeding, eating a Quarter Pounder, bouncing in the seat to Hip Hop, and talking on the phone all at the same time... She is probably going 5 miles under the speed limit with her hands at 10 and 2 and her boobs resting on the steering wheel. So her reflexes don't have to be as fast... so there is some trade off to be made.
Whatever situation somebody brings up somebody else can bring up something which is also "more dangerous" than the perfect scenario... maybe we should close all of the roads when it snows or when it rains... that would be safer too... What we are looking for here (or at least I am) is some common sense. I think there should be state imposed speed limits.... I think it is common sense that at some point alcohol is a self-induced impairment to your judgement, vision and reflexes so some limit should be legislated... I also agree that at some age, you should have to take a test every couple years to prove you are competent to drive... no system is ever going to be perfect and eliminate all possible dangers, the question is, what level of risk can we live with...
yebat' Putin
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The section of those stats I'm referring to is the one that shows the percentage that were over .08 BAC that were involved in fatal accidents. Either they blew over .08 or they didn't. I'm not sure how anyone can say that's "manipulated". Either the person had over .08 BAC or they didn't. It's pretty clear.
GM, that's just where those numbers were listed, not who did the actual study.
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No disrespect ment here Coach, but I just had to at the thought of trusting a lawyers stats who makes his living sueing people for drunk driving accidents
Are you serious? Coach, tell me that's not what you just posted as unbiased. LOL.
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The stats were from an attorney's site listing the percentage of drviers involved in fatal crashes having a BAC over .08. They didn't compile the stats, but listed them. Please tell me you are not going to dismiss the statistics because they are listed on an attorney's site.
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Quote:
No disrespect ment here Coach, but I just had to at the thought of trusting a lawyers stats who makes his living sueing people for drunk driving accidents
Are you serious? Coach, tell me that's not what you just posted as unbiased. LOL.
All of the stats which they list seem to be exactly the same ones listed on the DOT website...
yebat' Putin
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This is, for the most part, is true... However, a 75 year old woman is also less likely to be speeding, eating a Quarter Pounder, bouncing in the seat to Hip Hop, and talking on the phone all at the same time... She is probably going 5 miles under the speed limit with her hands at 10 and 2 and her boobs resting on the steering wheel. So her reflexes don't have to be as fast... so there is some trade off to be made.
She might not be speeding but driving 20 MPH under the speed limit is just as dangerous. She might not be eating a quarter pounder, but she could be trying to catch her teeth that she spit out while coughing. She may not be talking on a cell phone, but she may be staring at the radio trying to see which button is which, and her boobs would be on her lap, not the steering wheel 
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I think it is common sense that at some point alcohol is a self-induced impairment to your judgement, vision and reflexes so some limit should be legislated...
I agree 100 percent. Whats made me scratch my head is the people who were acting like drinking one beer and driving should be reason enough to be castrated  because it might efferct a persons ability to drive by 1 percent 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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They are the same. That's just where I saw them first. Of course, you know that the DOT is biased and manipulating those numbers, too.
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Yeah, the government NEVER does that. I didn't look on your site Coach, I just based it on GM's post. I'll look up some more numbers when I get the time and desire.
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One quick thing from your Edger Snyder website Alcohol was present in 24 percent of drivers involved in fatal crashes. Why don't more people talk about the other 76 percent of fatal crashes caused by non drinking drivers? Also why don't we crack down more on the idiots who already have 5, 10, 15 Dui's? Frequent drunk drivers are responsible for almost 60% of alcohol-related fatalities.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Yeah, the government NEVER does that.
So basically what you are saying is... no matter where the statistics come from, you aren't going to believe them... 
yebat' Putin
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I was totally kidding. I said I'd check out the stats at some point and see how they determined them.
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They determined them by giving those involved in fatal accidents a BAC. If they were over .08, they were part of the percentage that were over .08 and involved in a fatal accident. It's pretty simple. I would like to find a breakdown of those over .08 and what the percentages were that way, though.
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The batteries in my sarcasm gauge must be dead again. 
yebat' Putin
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If you think I'm taking YOUR word for it, you are incredibly wrong. I've seen you in action before. 
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Fine, go get some unbiased stats from the Drunks Against Mad Mothers website then.
yebat' Putin
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I love those guys! 
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Yeah, like I'll take to word of such obviously biased people that resort to using stuff from 1996 over that of the governments. I've seen that act before.
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I do believe there need to be limits.
And there lies the problem GM.... where do you set the limit?
The logical place is to set the limit at a point BELOW where someone is impaired enough to have a High Risk of causing an accident.
At the same time, people are people and if you give them an inch they WILL take a mile wherever they can. If you tell them the speed limit is 35, they'll drive 40 or 45. If the BAC limit is 0.08, they'll drive at 0.10 or 0.12 or whatever.
To be honest, I agree that 0.10 was probably just fine and that the drop to 0.80 was likely done in the interest of revenue generation - or - it was done with the above in mind and it is the 0.80's that you see getting easily plead down to "Wreckless Op" and "Failure to Control" ... but it is what it is; until/unless it changes, it IS the law and regardless of whether or not someone agrees with it has no bearing whatsoever on anything. If you're over, you're out and you DESERVE to be.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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This is a national graph from the late nineties. DUI numbers have decreased since then so this might still be fairly relevant. It's an interesting breakdown.
http://www.motorists.org/dui/home/dui-dwi-fatal-crash-table/
Ok Jules, did you see the links? "What to do at a DUI checkpoint" "How to fight your ticket" "Fight Irresponsible DUI Laws" "Common DUI myths" "The American Beverage Institute"... Is this website hosted by Tyler Derden?
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
This is a national graph from the late nineties. DUI numbers have decreased since then so this might still be fairly relevant. It's an interesting breakdown.
http://www.motorists.org/dui/home/dui-dwi-fatal-crash-table/
That is the kind of stats I am interested in. Not just those over .08, but accidents at each level, which would give a clearer indication at which levels true impairment is affected. now to find a similar chart from within the last 3-4 years.
Also, I'd like to know if the the chart is only referring to fatal accidents where alcohol is the cause. Not like, the guys brakes went out while coming to an intersection and broadsides someone, and he happened to blow a .081
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Yes, they are against what they deem to be unfair laws. I don't see a thing wrong with them telling people what to do. Coach's site and that site are going to skew things their way. I was trying to show it from a different take. I wasn't the one to claim my site was "unbiased".  I said I thought they were fairly level headed in their approach, unlike the people who over dramatize everything in life to get their way. And as far as the age on that chart, as I said, and someone conveniently dismissed, DUIs have decreased over the years, so the numbers would actually probably look better for my argument if it was more recent. Go ahead and feel free to ignore that though. LOL. You guys carry on, nothing ever gets accomplished in here with these types of debates anyway.
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Quote:
Also, I'd like to know if the the chart is only referring to fatal accidents where alcohol is the cause. Not like, the guys brakes went out while coming to an intersection and broadsides someone, and he happened to blow a .081
That's exactly the kind of thing I want to know.
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And there lies the problem GM.... where do you set the limit?
After seeing Jules chart, I would say .12 or .13 would be low enough. If you're over, you're out and you DESERVE to be.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Safety at all costs! Even if not a lick of common sense is used.
MADD won't be happy until it's a big fat zero. It's the only thing that justifies their much loved political existence. It's a shame when people who are initially involved in a cause let the power and control take over. Unfortunately, it appears to be human nature.
At least you can say that without having somebody stalk you on the board.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Oh, it's already started.
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