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You're half right. Frye struggled with reading defenses. That comes from the system he was a product of in college. The offense he ran at Akron, unfortunately, didn't teach him how to read a defense properly.....one of Lee Owens' biggest regret in his coaching career to date (straight out of Lee Owens' mouth).
Frye could make a decision, though. The problem was receivers were running the wrong routes. Part of this was the fault of Carthon's system and not everyone being on the same page. It's hard to follow through on making a decision when you aren't confident that when you release the ball and throw to a spot (as Kosar has said is the job of the QB on numerous occasions) that the receiver will be anywhere near that spot. Thus, Frye developed the habit of holding the ball too long to make sure the receiver would be where he was supposed to be and the protection breaking down.
Frye needed time to learn how to be an NFL QB. He wasn't given that time. HIs deficiencies were not given time to be overcome (weakness in reading a defense being the primary one).
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Careful who you respond to. Ammo did not imply that.
Oh I know he didn't....just took it from his post. That's my bad.
Sorry Ammo- wasn't directed at you man. 
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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BQ played pretty well IMO. He made mistakes... All QB's do... I expected him too. I'm pleased with the progress, patience and leadership that BQ is showing. If a D is going to give BQ a check down for 6-10 yards he should take it all day long... His avg. yards per completion was over 10 which is respectable. If we have a QB completing 20 balls a game for over 10 yards per and we are rushing for 110+ and getting 4 yards per carry or so we are going to put up around 4 or 5 scores a game and control the clock and keep the D off the field. I kind of like the sounds of that...  We have to stop comparing QB play with differnt units on both sides of the ball. I makes little sense. D's, reads, situations are different on most every play... If DA is or isn't in there and BQ is or isn't how in the hell are we going to truly compare... We aren't... We have more important positions and issues to be worried about other than QB. IMO Like LB, secondary and our D line will need some time to start clicking as well. Coach, I understand what your saying... Careful when saying Montana never... That is plainly not accurate. Frye is gone for obvious reasons...  He's well back of Senneca Wallace the #2 and is battling for the # 3 QB spot in Fisheaterville... For those same obvious reasons....  CF was a reach period. Not one of PS and staffs best draft moves... 
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I saw about 2 or 3 15-25 yard passes against the Jets, notably the two to Travis Wilson. He can heave it down the field, maybe not as good as Anderson, but in college he has showed that he can make the long throws on the money. He is somewhere between a Matt Hasselbeck and Eli Manning in terms of his style (not necessarily how good he is or can be).
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Question for you: What do you make of Frye competing for the 3rd QB spot in Seattle? If he loses that, chances are he might be out of the NFL. Do you believe that Cleveland ruined him?
I ask because although Ammo gets a little over zealous in his attacks on Frye, I feel you do the same on your rebuttals. Your arguments make it sound like it was everyone but Frye's fault albeit for the reading the defense thing. Reading defenses seems like a trait that can be taught.
I know that you know Frye personally. Maybe you should just step out of these debates. I think your emotions are too wound into it when you personally know the person.
Last edited by Rishuz; 08/10/08 06:02 PM.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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No, I have been very clear in Charlie's shortcomings. It's when Ammo, and others, place blame on him for things that were not of his doing that I defend him. Of course, any time you defend someone on here it makes you sound like you are an ardent supporter of them.
I don't think Cleveland "ruined" Charlie. I think the situation didn't allow him to develop his flaws. I don't know if he COULD have become what many hoped. It's just that the situation certainly didn't give him even the chance to. Too much expectations too fast.....from everyone including Charlie.
I don't need to step away from those debates because I look at Charlie objectively. I won't, however, sit and watch Ammo, or anyone else, post erroneous attacks on him.
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I should have been more clear, Boise. I was refuting the "arm strength" crap. Montana had a below average arm as far as arm strength. That was my point.
Frye is gone for obvious reasons. It's when people invent reasons and blame him for things that weren't his to own that I correct them.
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Right now Brady feels some pressure as he wants the job and wants to look good
You would feel pressure also if you were behind a second string line as he's been..
That's why I would just like to see him with the 1's just once in the preseason..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hey bud, it's been a while. Quote:
*LOL* .. U people never cease to amaze me .. remarkable ... simply remarkable ... U folks really have no idea how little U actually know .. its PRE SEASON and your all ready dissecting both our QB's .. thats MORONIC at best .. and why I hardly pot or read here anymore ...
What do you expect? Quinn is loved in this town like you wouldn't believe. He is treated like a rock star. It's human nature to want to talk about him, and of course the guy he is backing up. Of course it doesn't mean anythingat this point, but it is the only chance people will have to evaluate them. Come the start of the season, we won't see or hear anything about Quinn. That is as long as DA doesn't struggle badly or get hurt.
BTW, you are the one who was saying that Quinn would beat out DA in camp, and it wouldn't be close. After saying something like that, how can you blame anyone for debating it?
#gmstrong
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Frye is gone for obvious reasons... He's well back of Senneca Wallace the #2 and is battling for the # 3 QB spot in Fisheaterville... For those same obvious reasons....
One of the best coaches in the league doesn't seem to think that the reasons are all that obvious.,,, this is an excerpt from a article in Today's PD.. I'll post the link as well...
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Frye report:
The Seattle Seahawks would like to see Charlie Frye advance in their system well enough to relieve Seneca Wallace of backup quarterback duties so Wallace can be used as receiver in some situations. Every preseason game will be important for Frye.
"He's going to get a real chance to play a lot," coach Mike Holmgren told reporters before Seattle's first preseason game on Friday. "He knows that. So now he has to show. I think he's fine. I think he's improving. His decision-making is faster, which had to happen, and that comes with understanding what we do."
Frye was 2-for-3 for 22 yards in Friday's game, a 34-17 Seahawks' victory.
the link is:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1218357109273230.xml&coll=2
Not a big deal, but I thought you might like to know this. it's an FYI thing.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Something else for you to worry about Ammo. If DA has a year anything like last year poor ol Brady Quinn will be traded for a draft pick. Probably at the end of the year or before.
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Funny you should say that DD,.. Purp and I were talking about that this morning at Damons after watching Camp..
But, because we have both under contract, I think (purp,if you agree say so) that we probably even have one more year after this one, then into the off season before decisions need to be made..
What we both thought was true was that it's in DA's hands..
If he lights it up,, it could spell the trade of Quinn. Of course, the opposite is true also..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Something else for you to worry about Ammo. If DA has a year anything like last year poor ol Brady Quinn will be traded for a draft pick. Probably at the end of the year or before.
Why would I worry about it?
Why would I worry if a Browns QB throws for damn near 4000 yards, 30 TD's and makes the Pro Bowl? PLEASE explain your backasswards logic.
Last edited by Ammo; 08/10/08 08:11 PM.
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What does Holmgren know about QBs? He's never watched a single game on the couch with Ammo! 
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Sometimes Coach, you can be cruel..... How come you didn't come up to Camp this morning? I know you don't live that far away.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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What we both thought was true was that it's in DA's hands..
I think this is true.
YTown said something earlier that got me to thinking about something. I wonder if the FO and staff is comfortable with what we have in Quinn. I wonder if they already project him to be a more than capable starter in this league, possibly a very good one - without much hesitation.
But this may be an audition for DA because they feel he can go above and beyond that. With Quinn, you are most likely going to get good decisions, low risk taking, intelligence, and competitiveness. He's going to show up and put in the work. Maybe they have a confidence that he'll definitely be in the upper half of QBs in the league when he gets his chance.
But maybe they think DA could be a top 5 guy, and this is his audition. They figure that out this year. If he develops into a top 5 QB, bye-bye Quinn. If not, thanks DA, but we've got a lot invested in a guy who we feel comfortable we know what we are getting. Thanks for trying and good luck elsewhere.
I'm just wondering.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Actually, I was just joking about Ammo's claim that he was right about something going on with the Browns (don't remember what it was) because his friends and dad said the same thing while they were watching the game. I haven't had a day off for awhile with practice starting up. It's a huge adjustment to the college level. I took the time to relax with the family (other than my son, since we see each other all day long at practice). Mrs. B said she was going to get two life size pics of me and B Jr. to put at the dinner table so the family would remember what we look like.
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I'm just saying to Diam not to bring the issues that seem to always have been between you two to the thread.[/quopte]
He's right about Mangini....but I really don't pay attention to him anymore...if people can't figure out why, there is no use in explaining.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Quote:
Right now Brady feels some pressure as he wants the job and wants to look good
You would feel pressure also if you were behind a second string line as he's been..
That's why I would just like to see him with the 1's just once in the preseason..
I wasn't saying that in a bad way.....just as a matter of fact.....glad you understand he is under pressure and agree with me even if you don't understand why.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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But maybe they think DA could be a top 5 guy, and this is his audition.
Why, would any team trade a top 5 QB for someone they THINK is gonna be good... That's just insane!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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LOL,, yeah, I kinda figured you were kidding with him,, I just forget to put this  in to show I understood That's funny with the life size cutouts....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Ahh, Ok 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Haven"t read all the above posts but I just finished watching a re-telecast of the Browns-Jets game on NFL Network.
Both Qb's looked pretty good in the game vs the Jets. DA did not have any completions significantly longer than BQ's. There was only one long pass in the 1st half. That was by DA. It was incomplete but the Jets got called for pass interference.
Last edited by Jester; 08/10/08 09:08 PM.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Quote:
Quote:
But maybe they think DA could be a top 5 guy, and this is his audition.
Why, would any team trade a top 5 QB for someone they THINK is gonna be good... That's just insane!
A head scatcher response. I have no idea what you are trying to say.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Force it deep. Not doing it in practice, rap of not doing it well, silly stuff. Be vertical. Offense needs to force adjustments. This sounded fishy to me. Games within games.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Meh, the game was a exhibition / scrimmage that was played 7 days into August.. not that big of a deal and I don't think it is indicative of all that much.
Personally, I'd prefer that we kept it very vanilla and didn't show that much, especially to teams that we are going to play later on in the season such as the Giants. I expect more of the same next Monday night.
The game that I normally perk up and pay attn for is the 3rd preseason game. The 4th one decides which guys on the bubble get bounced.
SaintDawg™
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The 3rd game is always the "dress rehearsal" as they say. I am headed up for the 4th game, so I'll get only one drive worth of the starters. I kind of enjoy watching those bubble guys giving it their all. Kind of cool for an outsider like myself trying to eval guys and determine who I think will make the cut.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Quote:
A head scatcher response. I have no idea what you are trying to say.
Well, you made a comment that read:
Quote:
But maybe they think DA could be a top 5 guy, and this is his audition.
And I said, if they are wiling to trade a Top 5 QB (which would be why he's audtioning I assume) it's insane!
Did that help?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
A head scatcher response. I have no idea what you are trying to say.
Well, you made a comment that read:
Quote:
But maybe they think DA could be a top 5 guy, and this is his audition.
And I said, if they are wiling to trade a Top 5 QB (which would be why he's audtioning I assume) it's insane!
Did that help?
You misread that then.
He was saying if he was a top 5 QB, this is his chance to prove it...not that this is his chance to showcase for a trade.
you had a good run Hank.
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Still waiting on Dawg Duty to answer why I should be worried if Derek Anderson should become a top 5 QB. Since, ya know, it makes a lot of sense for me to be upset if we have an awesome QB. 
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Thanks for the FYI. I get plenty of info on the Seacocks here, if I want it... You are correct about "it" not being a big deal... I would not consider the link your shared as much of an indorsement for CF... Their 0 is very complex, their playbook is huge and they implement a ton of changes weekly. CF has been there almost a year... We shall see...
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Gottcha Coach... THX.
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Funny you should say that DD,.. Purp and I were talking about that this morning at Damons after watching Camp..
But, because we have both under contract, I think (purp,if you agree say so) that we probably even have one more year after this one, then into the off season before decisions need to be made..
What we both thought was true was that it's in DA's hands..
If he lights it up,, it could spell the trade of Quinn. Of course, the opposite is true also..
I'm thinking if DA has another good year (and I don't think he has to be top 5)that BQ and his agent will not let him sit again. He will probably start a controversy to get traded. He will see the writing on the wall. The Browns will still have him under contract but its not good to have unhappy people around. If DA stinks up the place then its still all good with Brady.
And Ammo, I took you for a BQ honk. I thought you were one of the guys that want to get rid of a All-Pro QB and start Brady. If I was wrong I apol apoli sorr. Can't say it but you get the picture.
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Just clicking...wanted to address the thread. Sorry hardly read anybody's post.
Quinn a dink and dunk passer?
1. James Lee LT - UDFA SC State.
Nate Bennett RT - UDFA Clemson
Derrik Morse LG - UDFA Miami (FL)
Freidman C
Sowells RG
This is BQs OL - he has 3 seconds or less to get rid of the ball - or get killed/sacked/sacked and fumble. He does not have time to survey the field, Check down on WRs, pump fake. He must make his decision quickly and get rid of the ball quickly. btw - with this OL he was not sacked once and it wasn't cause of their prowess.
What I don't like about this...competition or not...its just not a good environment for a young QB to develop. All he is learning in most of his playing time is how to get rid of the ball quickly to avoid sacks. This is what DA was praised for when he came in and played most of the Steeler game replacing Frye. Our OL was still ironing out the kinks - DA was applauded for getting rid of the ball quickly and avoided sacks. I didn't see any of those patented long passes by DA in that game...it was all on a QB clock...1, 2, get rid of the ball!
Well BQ is making quick reads and then when he surmizes that the CB and cover 2 is playing deep (also not being able to depend on precise routes from a bevy of WRs) he quickly chooses the underneath route - but if you notice he gets the ball right on the hands where the RB (mostly) can catch it and make some YAC.
When he has seen an opening on a little deeper pattern he has shown fine arm strength to get the ball there.
If the writer of the article is suggesting that BQ prefers this...he is a fool. Give him a series or two with a real OL with real WRs and let him get comfortable with sitting back in the pocket and do legitimate check downs and pick his poison...Boom and he still opts out for the dump off. Then ASSume away.
But until then - the kid is surviving. He would look more foolish getting sacked waiting for the long patterns to develop. And then we would have Peen yelling "BUST" lol 
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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And Ammo, I took you for a BQ honk. I thought you were one of the guys that want to get rid of a All-Pro QB and start Brady. If I was wrong I apol apoli sorr. Can't say it but you get the picture.
Considering you've tried looked for false ways to attack me in recent months, it makes me wonder if you even read my posts. 
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Quote:
And then we would have Peen yelling "BUST"
No I wouldn't. At this point I don't think Quinn is anywhere near a bust.
Lets keep it real.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
You misread that then.
He was saying if he was a top 5 QB, this is his chance to prove it...not that this is his chance to showcase for a trade.
Well, why didn't he say that then.. he used the word Audition,, to me that means he's audtioning for other teams.. there isn't a need to audition for the Browns.. he's got the job..
And if he's got the job, why should he showcase anything.. No peen, I don't think you are right about what you think he meant...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Quote:
BROWNS
In a recent interview, General Manager Phil Savage admitted the offense is more vertical with the gunslinger Anderson pulling the trigger, and that coordinator Rob Chudzinski would alter things with Quinn in the game. But Quinn wouldn't concede that.
"I hope not," he said.
Does anyone else think that Phil Savage talks a bit more than you'd like to hear from a GM? I like what he's done with draft picks and free agent signings and trades, but he is not a coach. And let's just say DA really proves himself to be a superstar and we want to trade Quinn. Isn't it better to just say we can run the same offense regardless of who's behind center? If, indeed, it is a different offensive scheme for BQ, it sounds like news to him.
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that BQ and his agent will not let him sit again. He will probably start a controversy to get traded
Couple of problems,, first, I don't think Quinn is that dumb as to do something to start a contreversy.. that makes him look, sound and smell like a malcontent.. not a positive thing to have hanging out there for a bunch of teams to see.
Second, he's under contract.. he has no choice..
I gotta tell you something,, this is not the typical QB we are talking about with Quinn.. He's not a dummy. He's a bright kid, a good kid.. No way does he do anything to wreck the chemistry on this team. I just don't think it's in his make up.. as I don't think it's in DA's make up either.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
I'm tellin' u guys...It won't be that way if and when he's in GAMES with the ONES...
He's accurate in the short game...That's GREAT...
No need to panic about this..second unit...D schemed as more of a prevent..offense still moved..
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quinn a dink and dunk passer?
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