DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Upon further review: Chargers versus Browns

Speaking of K Mack,,,,heres a clip that I know you guys will all love

[color:"white"]Not riled up at all D <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Just making the point.

As to why Harrison isn't getting much PT, we may have seen why against the Chargers. Missed block, fumble, dropped pass. Tough to earn PT when that happens. RAC may be happy going with the reliable Droughns, since the line is blocking so poorly. Some people, not necessarily you, aren't putting enough stock in blocking. That plays a bigger role in the equation than most realize. [/color]

Droughns may be out this week. If he is it will be interesting how much we use the other backs. If we see a lot of Wright and or Vickers as opposed to Harrison it might just be due to blocking.

[color:"orange"]Wow, that's a nice effort from you Toad. <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Keep it up with those vid d/l's... I'll do a couple of these games over the holidays when I have more time and we'll compare notes. [/color]

[color:"yellow"]The following in yellow is my review of OverToad?s make believe game review which is in white.[/color]

[color:"white"]First offensive series for the Chargers, first play. 2 TE set where Neal could have been at the LOS as a TE. 7 blockers against our 5-man front, 7 in the box. Jackson was blocked out of the play by the tackle, Eason neutralized by a solo blocker creating a hole. Davis made the tackle after he engaged, disengaged, and shed making the play behind him. There's a fine line between beating a blocker and shedding one to make the tackle. [/color]

[color:"yellow"] He didn?t shed anyone. He made the tackle 6 yards downfield after LT passed him. [/color]

[color:"white"]1st down, playaction. Davis on a run blitz, picked up by Neal. Wouldn't have mattered as the Chargers play design was to get the ball out quick to an open receiver. It worked well. That's something OUR offense needs more of. That would cut down on the sacks. 1st down. [/color]

[color:"yellow"] First off, there was no play action. Secondly it worked because our corners were playing soft coverage. The WR on the opposite side of the field was wide open too. [/color]

[color:"white"]Next play. Chargers in a 1-TE, strong offset I. Davis on another blitz where he's stuffed. Playaction with the pulling guard. Rivers hits his drop and throws on time. Again, that's what we need in this offense. It'll stop making Chuck hold onto the ball. I tend to think that is Chuck's doing and not the play design. The playaction held Stewart and Jackson, opening up the zone for Parker. Not a complicated play, but effective. [/color]

[color:"yellow"] Rivers had all day to throw. Nobody was around him which had to make him feel comfortable in the pocket. It?s amazing how you just bashed Frye and Frye wasn?t even in the game. You are amazing. [/color]

[color:"white"]3rd and 7, 11:14 to go 1st quarter. Spread formation, tomlinson in motion out of the backfield. Only a 3-man rush. Gates put a quick out-and-in move on Jackson and Rivers threaded the needle. Good catch and tackle. Just a good play for the 1st. Again, timing throw where Rivers hit his drop and threw on time. That's part of the reason he's having such a great 1st year as a starter, and why Chuck is struggling. It'll take more film to see if Frye is holding onto the ball too long or if the play design just isn't helping him. [/color]

[color:"yellow"] Rivers stared down Gates the whole play. Our LB?s looked confused b/c of Tomlinson leaving the backfield. Again, why are you bringing Frye up and bashing Frye when he?s not in the game. May it be because you are a Frye hater? [/color]


[color:"white"]2nd and 12 after two guys in motion. Gain of 2 on a pass, as our guys did a great job of not biting on play action. They doubled Wimbley, showing respect. [/color]

[color:"yellow"] They didn?t double Wimbley, they doubled McKinley. Get your eyes checked, Wimbley was in coverage. [/color]

[color:"white"]Browns first offensive drive. Frye shifts to a spread, where he's clearly late getting the team in and out of the huddle. He must have pumped his foot 5 or 6 times trying to get Fraley to snap the ball. No excuse for that on the first offensive play after a kick return. I don't know if it's on Frye or the coaching staff, but there's no reason for that gaffe during week 9. Frye sees the unblocked rusher and gets the ball out to Heiden for 5. Good play. [/color]

[color:"yellow"] We didn?t even see the team leave the huddle, so how in the world do you know they were late getting out of the huddle? Obviously you just wanted to take a cheap shot at Frye.

Also we got the play off with 2 seconds on the play clock and picked up 5 yards. It?s obvious you just wanted to bash Frye.

You mentioned that SD had an unblocked rusher, but why didn?t you mention that they only brought a 4 man rush? [/color]

[color:"white"]2nd and 4 at the 30. Power I. Straight ahead powerball off the 2-hole. Fraley freezes his guy, Coleman kicks his guy out a little. Smith is leading through what looks like a hole, but it closes before Smith, tripping, can get there. Droughns sees it and cuts to his left, pushing the pile, gaining 5. [/color]

[color:"yellow"] Smith fell down 3 yards past the line of scrimmage. You make it sound like he fell down in the backfield.
Droughns made his first cut 1 yard past the line of scrimmage. You make it sound like he did something in the backfield.
Droughns didn?t get touched until he was 3 yards past the line of scrimmage. He?s 6 feet tall and fell ahead 6 feet aka 2 yards, for his 5 yard gain.
Our O-Line had a 3 yard push. Give credit where credit is due on that play to our O-Line [/color]

[color:"white"]1st down, 6:25 to go. Power I again, Bolts walking the safety up to the LOS, putting 8 in the box, Edwards in motion, stopping off of Shaffers sholder, forcing the safety back into coverage. Run off strong side right, Chargers flowing to the play. Good looking play. Droughns takes the handoff, running at about 75%, waiting for Smith to get to the hole. Coleman did a good job shielding his guy and Fraley hit the 2nd level and found the 'backer. Reuben works around Coleman, then cuts left following Smith with his hand on his back. Patience and the ability to use a fullback are good attributes. The safety is unblocked and is waiting for Droughns. The folks that say Reuben isn't running with power won't like to see this play *L* He's hit by the safety after 3 yards. Droughns runs through that tackle, is hit by 4 guys (yes, that's right, 4 guys. Watch the tape) at the 40 and still falls forward to the 43. Watch the tape folks, he's running with patience, vision, and power, but only if there's a crease to hit. [/color]

[color:"yellow"] First off, Droughns ran 6 yards before he was even touched. Great blocking.
Secondly, the guy waiting for him was standing there, and Droughns only knocked him back 1 yard. Then a big fat D-linemen jumped on the pile to push it ahead the final 2 yards.




I?m done reviewing your anti-Frye, anti-Fraley, anti-Butler, anti-Smith and PRO Droughns propaganda. I?m done wasting my time with this drivel. [/color]

[color:"orange"]Toad?...Agenda???

Nahhh <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

lol <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I think this football novella is titled The Vindication of Rueben.

JMHO

He also hates Andra Davis, not going to find the exact quote bet to paraphrase "Andra Davis whiffed on a tackle for LT."

LT is averaging 4.9 YPC and has 16 TDs in 9 games. I'd say a heck of a lot of people miss LT. AS for Droughns, he still can't get it through his head that LT needs a crack while Droughns needs a gaping hole. Droughns is an average back - we need a gamebreaker.

Regarding getting it through his head, No comment. But LT needing a crack vs RD needing a gaping hole,,,,, There you have it...That's the thing I have to agree with.

Meant Toad, not Droughns for the "through the head" comment.

Yeah, I knew that, thus the NO Comment... I'm not getting myself in the middle of you two crazies... Nope,,, not this boy,, Ain't gonna happen <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

We aren't crazy, just "normally challenged."

I read some over breakfast...and finished it after supper.

Toad, you see things the way I do.
I've said all along that I don't see RD being any slower than the slow I mentioned after his first game as a Brown.

Guys are hitting him in the backfield too often.
Just like the vast majority of Browns running plays since 1996 ( <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) there's just no holes to run through.

Thanks for taking the time to break down the game. I enjoyed what I hated reading.
I don't tape the games anymore. I can't bear to watch them more than once.

You must have an anti-Frye Droughns loving agenda Vette. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes_devil.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ok, now that this is becoming an all out dispute with verifiable evidence on both sides, I gotta go through and actually watch this thing, can somebody throw me a link to the torrent?

~Lyuokdea

http://forums.tenyardtorrents.com/viewtopic.php?id=1597



From the thread in the Tailgate. <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

thanks

~Lyuokdea

Ahhh - a fellow tape watcher.

Thanks for taking the time, Toad. Very interesting break-down.

Most of the plays broke down as advertised, but on may failed plays we disagree on who was at fault. There were also several plays that you picked up on some pretty interesting points. This is why so much of the film review is subject to interpretation. We have limited knowledge of who was supposed to do what. When Druzzi gets blown over - that's easy. Others aren't so clear.

The single biggest thing San Diego's defense did in that game to screw with our offense was late movement by the LBs and CBs. Who's at fault here depends on how you believe our offense is run. My understanding of our offensive is that the line calls are made at the LOS. Late adjustments by the defense (corner blitzes, etc) are sight adjustments by Charlie.

This particular play for example (because of the impact to the game):

Late movement to the right - line calls are in, done, over. Charlie didn't make the sight adjustment.

You know I like Charlie a lot and think he's gonna be fine, but question his decision making (rightfully so since he's a rook) - but that play was on Charlie 100%, IMO and there are a half-dozen others in that game that are almost identical. [Note Atlanta tried the same thing and got nowhere]

We should run the Steelers game down one series at a time (the whole game is a lot to swallow at once). That would be pretty awesome - just long <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ahhh, that's special!

Then why did you post this thread. Toad is on here enough and posts a ton. Yes he is riding Frye as of late but that doesn't make him a hater. I disagree with him on where Frye should be but he at least has an arguement which is more than you.

Fraley didn't play well. Why not point it out. His own wife will when he has a bad game. Fraley actually has had two bad games but that I'm sure will stop Sunday.

Droughns is what he is and what Toad says fits it. He is a very good pass blocking back who has good vision and power (It was stated here last year with a link that Droughns was third in YAC behind James and someone else) and is slow. He is not an elite back and Toad has said this more times than I can count.

And for you Eotab since you thought it was proper to stick your nose into it your not immune. Your name calling of late as well as your belittling attitude has gotten old. Hard to respect you when you treat posters the way you have.

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

[color:"orange"]I have to laugh at the tone of this post, especially when you're telling people they've been rude...

Settle.
[/color]

I'm not going to settle. I've been with these people for years and I have grown tired of the childish actions some seem to do post after post. If Turner fan wants to attack Toad more power to him. He should at least try to get the facts straight though.

Tab is been around for years longer than me but has recently changed his tone. If he chooses to take it to a level beneath him why don't I have the right to say something? Everyone has their own opinions on here and I just chose to express mine.

What do you think I did? OverToad got on here and made stuff up about the game. Complete LIES about how Droughns performed, trying to make his idol look like he's actually getting it done this year. I got on here and corrected his drivel.

OverToad thought he'd be slick and go back a couple games and start posting stuff to play up his idol, Reuben Droughns. He just didn't know that I tape every game, and rewatch every game. When OverToad makes up a lie, I'll be there. When you make a lie, I'll be there.

By the way, your comment about Droughns and YAC from last year, is just that, FROM LAST YEAR. OverToad and yourself are living in the PAST. Grow up and live in TODAY. Droughns is and over the hill RB. I've already gotten on here and proven that most RB's his age retire because they can't get it done anymore. And by the looks of it Droughns can't get it done anymore.

[color:"white"]Hate to sound this way (well, not really, hehe) but you've not proven yourself to be someone who's worth much of my time, and I have time for everyone on this forum <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" /> I'll simply say again what I've said since this started: Everyone should get Bittorrent, download the games, and watch for themselves. They'll see that when it comes to Droughns, very little of what's happened to him is because he's something different than he was last year. Our line is simply horrific right now, and watching the games will show it.

To everyone reading, the intent of this thread was to get to the bottom of the truth, to form what we think we see in a split second, once, at full speed, into what's real. My intent wasn't to create yet another venue where childishness would work it's way to the forefront. So, I'll say again......

I'm not asking anyone to believe me. All I'm really asking is for people to download bittorrent, download the games, and make their own decisions. I think most people, when given the chance to honestly view this stuff in slomo, and with the ability to replay each important play, will view what's happening on offense in a new light. All fingers point towards the line when one takes the time to examine the issues.[/color]

I'm not asking anyone to believe me. I'm asking everyone to watch and believe their own eyes. [/color]

[color:"white"]You may need some kind of player to watch the games, as I had issues with different ones until I d/loaded the VLC player. It seems to play everything I throw at it without issue. A simple google search will yeild the free download.[/color]

Yeah, I always use VLC nowadays, because there are so many formats out there and VLC plays everything. I got the download going now, but may not actually be able to do a full play by play review till next week, i'll post stuff up if anything catches my eye. Thanks for the help.

~Lyuokdea

Damn bro, how did I miss out on making that list. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

P- I never said Hank had a bad game against the chargers. He actually didnt have a great game, but he was going up against a pro bowler and most of the time he did his job. Now.......... this past game, he didnt have a great game on the grading sheet, but some of it was due to technique and not play failure, a mental error on a line call and a sack when frye came up into his guy 4 or 5 seconds after the snap. He heard crownd noise and looked to his left to see where Charlie had scrambled(so he could release and block), since he was scrambling (still blocking his guy) the only problem was frye scrambled to Hanks right and into his man. Since Hank had turned a tad left to see where charlie was going, he didnt have a great hold of the guy to his right and he made the play.

Oh well game over.

Steelers on deck..........

[color:"red"]"When it comes to Droughns, the O-line, the defense, and Frye, it's what's happened in the last month that's important."

[color:"orange"]A review or agenda? Come on you blind or something.

[color:"red"]"And for you Eotab since you thought it was proper to stick your nose into it your not immune. Your name calling of late as well as your belittling attitude has gotten old. Hard to respect you when you treat posters the way you have."

[color:"orange"]hehe...and its obvious where your nose has been stuck <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

A heated debate about Mo but your bud who made just as many disrepectful remarks as I is an angel. OK

If this is Toad's board and I am not welcomed to post alternate ideas...let me know I will leave no problems.

And considering this is what you call belittling attitude:

[color:"white"]Toad?...Agenda???

Nahhh

lol

I think this football novella is titled The Vindication of Rueben.


[color:"orange"]then you got your nose way up his butt!
Sorry next time I will submit my post to you...get it ok'd and then post <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

It's the little things like this that even the most astute viewer doesn't pick up on, yet these are the types of things that truly impact each and every play. The average person would have seen that and just simply concluded "Hank Sucks" or "Charlie is a dumbass for scrambling right into the guy". I love getting the little bits of real information behind things like this to offset the load of speculation that is the only alternative.

hmmmm for some reason I am not feeling the love in this thread <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> but I'll tell you what guys the disagreements are not as much fun to read as your football discussions <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[color:"orange"]Sorry GM n others...all I thought I did was make a joke you know post a GM post. But I don't think I'm allowed to I guess. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I'll leave...my bad.

Come on bro, I was talking to everybody (including myself) thats why I replied to GMdawg <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I just really enjoy reading everybody's discussions, and not fights. This old dawg still loves to learn new tricks, and I still learn a lot from reading the good threads and posts. Yours, Diams, Vers, Toads, Sheps, etc, etc, etc. (Don't shoot me people I just don't feel like listing 100 names <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> )

Sunday Browns/Steelers lets all hope we can be discussing a Browns win come sunday night. <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Sorry Danielle, I was having a bad night. I didn't mean to put words into your mouth. My point was not everyone plays at their best week in and week out. People are going to have bad plays and bad games. We shouldn't make decisions on them based on one game. I do know how the lineman are graded thanks to you. <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Again, I probably shouldn't have posted last night. You and Toad have been going at it and that doesn't bother me as much as some of your post to other posters. You have always been one of the posters I have respected most on this board.

You better tell toad I'm up his butt because outside of Droughns I don't think we have agreed on much of anything this year.

[color:"white"]All this talk about noses and my butt are making me nervous <img src="/images/graemlins/saywhat.gif" alt="" /> I'm not about to turn my back on you people <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

[color:"white"]As far as Droughns goes, I'm going to repeat what I said somewhere else on this thread and others. I went into all this with an open mind, and the idea that Droughns could have lost something not just this year, but since the Jets game. I went looking for a guy who was shying away from contact, wasn't running hard, or lacked the vision I thought he had. What I saw was just the opposite, which is why I emphatically reaffirmed my stance.

"Agenda" suggests spin or an altering of the truth to further a point. I don't agree with that. That's why I've invited everyone to take the time to download .torrent and the games I've watched so they can judge for themselves. I feel that since I did state he could have made more yards on a couple of runs, that he ran out of gas against the Jets, and that he missed a block that should have caused a sack shows honesty in the evaluation, not spin or agenda. Don't mistake my vehemence in the reaffirmation of my stance as agenda. If anything, it's crowing at the fact that what I saw was the same guy as last year, which while not exactly commendable, it should be understandable. Afterall, I never claimed to be a Saint <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> In truth, humans can see the exact same thing, yet process the information differently. Some people probably have watched the same games in slomo, but have seen something different or in a different light. Having said that, the majority of people who chirp the loudest on any given point (not saying anyone inperticular, so don't get your hackles up people. I'm just making the point) don't bother to take the time to properly evaluate information. Therefore, all that happens is parroting of bad information, which is the one thing I despise more than anything else on these forums.

In the end, yes, I'm vehement in my defense of Droughns. He took a ton of heat when we traded for him, and I went to bat for a guy that I felt would be good for us. I won't lie and tell everyone that I just KNEW he'd be the first 1200 yard rusher in 20 years, hehe, but I knew we were getting a power-runner who would help the team immensly. He did just that. This year, I saw the same guy in preseason. He did lose something while his shoulder healed, but when I saw other games after it was healthy, it was apparent to me that he was the same guy. When I see people try and use his YPC average as a benchmark for proving that he's not he same guy, I'm going to lose my cool because it's faulty reasoning, very much identical to trying to use his number of rushing TD's to disprove his worth. Hell, he has more TD's this year than last, but it's clear the line isn't as good and he has been injured. So when the day is done, I'm going to bat for a player who's taking heat when he isn't the problem. I'm not professing him to be a great, dynamic runner. I never did. Nobody (who honestly knows the game) ever has. But as a North-South runner who can block, catch, and run with power, he's good enough right now. He isn't the problem, and I'm going to speak loudly and clearly about that.

Don't mistake that for agenda. [/color]

OverToad, I've already proven that most of your original post was a joke.

You have to be legally blind.

[color:"white"]*yawn*

If you want to talk about Frye, talk about it in the Frye thread that you didn't need to create. If you want to talk about the Chargers game, talk about the Chargers game. That's what this thread was created for. [/color]

If I could even remember half of those type things that he tells me after the games I would probably bring a bit more insight.

Sometimes its hard for me to understand all of the terms and stuff, especially when I am sitting with him and friends just soaking up the conversation.

I know sometimes the coaches want him to do some of the technique different than what he did in Philly. Sometimes he feels when he does it as they want it here, he isnt as good. So I think some of his mistakes in the past 2 games are him really wanting to do what his coaches want of him. I know it frustrates him to no end when he knows he could have done a better job doing what he was taught in philly because he practiced it for so long....... but that has to be the past for him and this his future so he needs to try his best to acclimate. I think given the chance to complete an off season and training camp he would feel more comfortable in the techniques they use here and not have so much on his mind when he lines up. I know he has made some mental errors that are not like him, things he would have never messed up on in Philly. I think its just a combination of all the changes.

any time you go from doing something you've done a certain way for years and now have to do it a different way, at the very best you're going to be a little slower and less proficient as you now have to think about what you're doing instead of just doing it.

Hopefully y'all get extended here and he gets more comfortable with things <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />