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Don't get me wrong, I love Dorsey. He's basically an extra QB Coach, but his role this year isn't as important as it was last year. Last year he was helping teach Frye/Anderson/Quinn Chud's offense, and to serve as a mentor to Quinn. Most games I went to, Quinn was attached at Dorsey's hip during the game. But now a year later, Anderson obviously is much more comfortable and the undeniable starter; and Quinn has had a full offseason and camp to get more assimilated into it.
The Browns have an obvious need for depth at DB, and possibly LB and RB too (depending on injury situations). Teams don't always need to carry 3 QB's, and I'm wondering if maybe the Browns make that leap this year.
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i think he stays the duration of this year
and next year, with the chance we may have to do something about the quinn/anderson situation, dorsey is probably gone.
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Perhaps, but I don't really see Dorsey's roster spot as being that desperately needed. We could easily release one of our 8th string DBs that we have to bring in another DB or LB.
I think we still need Dorsey as another "coach", at least for a little while longer. I'd be surprised if he's still around next year, I will say that. But, this year, I don't see him being released unless we really need that roster spot.
JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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You know I hadn't pondered that scenario...guess if we do dump Quinn or Anderson then Dorsey would be valuable...
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I could not agree less. According to all reports coming from Quinn and DA, From anything Chud says, from Savage, From RAC, he's valuable. Why mess with it if it ain't broken? Quote:
The Browns have an obvious need for depth at DB, and possibly LB and RB too (depending on injury situations).
I assume you are talking about the active, game day roster right?
The question I have, (and I really don't know the answer) is, is Dorsey active for all games? Isn't there some rule that allows him to be inactive yet in Uniform for emergency situations, or have I completely screwed that up somehow?
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Dorsey is the 46th player on game day. The league allows an extra player as an emergency QB to suit up and play if the first two quarterbacks go down.
As to the question, I think that RAC and Chud are pretty well suited to make a decision on what Dorsey brings to the team. If they think that he has value, then he won't be going anywhere for a while. It's not like there are stud DBs or LBs waiting to join the Browns once the third QB is released.
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Making him inactive for the gameday roster sounds like a good idea.
It would keep him on the team and allow for someone else to physically contribute, most likely on special teams which would keep some more important role players off of ST.
Harrison Sorenson Cousins all play ST and if any one of them got hurt it would seriously effect the depth at their positions so I would be glad to see any one of them off ST.
That and if we ever got to the point where we needed a third QB we are probably going to lose the game anyway and I'd rather see Cribbs trying to pull some more magic out his helmet than Dorsey play like my grandma.
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Dorsey will remain this year. Next season someone is getting shipped out ...so we'll actually need a backup..I expect Dorsey to either be released or find a spot on the coaching staff somehow. Either that or they can put his arm in a bowl of soup to replace the noodles that weren't added.. 
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Close...the rule is that if the 3rd string QB enters the game before the 4th quarter, then the team's other 2 QB's cannot enter the game at all, again, at any position for the remainder of the game. So the first two don't have to be injured.
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WHAT? You can't go into the season with Two QBs on the roster! Dorsey is a serviceable 3rd string QB. If for some reason (like back to back games with QB injuries) who else would be BETTER than him to play QB.
HAVE you looked at what's out there QB wise? Do you remember howmany teams scrambled to resolve QB problems last year?
The 3rd string QB will ALWAYS be on the roster. Ken Dorsey may not be a superior athelete but he is as good as they come for third stringers.
Who would you bring in (AND IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A GUY WILLING TO BE 3RD STRING) to replace Dorsey? A rookie with zero play time? No, you put him on the practice squad(like DA was).
Now if your looking for second string QBs... well that's a different story. A promising rookie or an aging vet fit the bill.
But for third string the QB pool narrows to those vets with know how but little talent or those you take a chance on developing(not good enough to be back up QB). As far as vet QB's... How many have we gone thru? Most are worthless.
Dorsey has fit the niche we needed him to fill.
Unless we find a TRUE diamond in the rough or we foolishly go into the season with two QBs on the roster... I say keep Dorsey.
JMHO
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Got news for you...any team going down to their #3 QB cause of injuries is in Big Trouble...us too. But again judging BQ many took into account that he was with guys not going to make it in the NFL.
Well Dorsey's environment was even worse. Its how well he would produce in our #1 offense and at least he has experience and could get by on GAME MANAGMENT if ever called upon!
Let him Go? no. Groom another #3 by drafting one 4th round or later in the future? Sure as DA n BQ gain experience Dorsey's value diminishes somewhat.
This year...we got our 3 and they all have their roles - doubt if we would mess with the QB situation at all.
JMHO
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There is ONE OTHER POINT...
It appears that those that are questioning Dorseys value are doing so based on ONE game.. A preseason game in which Dorsey was playing in the 4th quarter with teammates that probably will NOT make any teams roster.
That is a completely unfair method of determining if he's fit to be our 3rd stringer..
IF, and it's a big IF, he gets in a game because our 1st and 2nd stingers go down or are ineffective, he will most likely have Edwards, Stallworth, JJ? and Winslow to throw to. He'll most likely have Jamal Lewis or Jason Wright or even Harrison as his RB.
His fullback will most probably be Vickers or Ali.
And maybe even more important than any of those guys, He will most likely have the Starting Oline to protect him.
So, Noodle arm or not, he should improve simply because of what's around him. He won't have to make plays by himself. He can use the weapons he has. And significant weapons they are.
So in my opinion, all of this talk about trading, cutting or releasing Dorsey for whatever reason, is way premature....
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I couldn't agree more EO. More than likely any team that gets to the third stringer is in trouble. If we were ever down to our third string QB, unless it's by some freak accident, we've got bigger concerns than the QB position.
Any team that gets down to the third string QB has problems up front.
And the next head coach is ......
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Going with two QB's isn't that shocking. The Colts do it almost yearly, and other teams like the Broncos, Panthers, maybe Jags have done it in the past. Realistically, the chances of getting to your third QB are slim anyways. If you go with two and one gets hurt it's not that hard to find another.
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I agree Big C...if a roster spot is a major concern we can go that route. But of the ones you made reference to...well specifically Colts - Manning has a history and in that history he has started every game. Of course Favre with the Packers would have that history too.
Panthers...of course they have often ended their season cause of the QB injury situation so I really do not wish to copy their thinking process.
Denver...not that sure but could be? Didn't check.
But going to 2 QBs is a little risky unless you have that great OL (which we do) oh and btw Manning no longer has and got hit more than I ever seen him hit last year.
All depends on how bad we need that roster spot and who we choose to keep as depth?
JMHO
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Go Browns!
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Quote:
Dorsey will remain this year.
Next season someone is getting shipped out ...so we'll actually need a backup..I expect Dorsey to either be released or find a spot on the coaching staff somehow.
Either that or they can put his arm in a bowl of soup to replace the noodles that weren't added..
lolz
that is exactly how i see it
i don't know a ton about the anderson/quinn thing, and whether or not brady and his agent will throw a fit if he doesn't start for the browns next season.
i just have this hunch that one of our 2 qb's will be on another team next year, the league is starved for starting qb's, we potentially have 2, something has to give. and phill realizes the value we have, and may want something in return for one of the guys....
so if quinn or anderson gets traded away, or whatever, i think dorsey is either released, or given a job as some kind of an assistant coach (i honestly think, because i know how athletes are, he is going to try and pick up somewhere else, and play)
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wow, one bad preseason game and people just want to drop Dorsey altogether. As alluded to earlier, Dorsey isn't a starter or backup. He's here to help Quinn and Anderson learn and they've both praised how much he's helped. If both Quinn and Anderson are knocked out for long periods of time, I doubt this team will settle on Dorsey and sign someone else (if it comes to him starting awhile) but most teams would do that if they got knocked down to their 3rd stringer. Dorsey is on the roster this season, period. Now depending how the Anderson/Quinn thing turns out, I wouldn't be against drafting a QB in the later rounds and having him compete for that 3rd string spot, but thats next season. I swear, if Dorsey comes out next game and throws 13/18 with 140 yds and 2 TD's against 3rd stringers and future cuts, people will start saying we need to sign him to an extension. Hey Quinn threw an interception too, we should probably get him outta here too before he looks too bad to trade 
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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maybe its time to let you g mr BigC. what does the C stand for? cockapoopy decision making just poking fun, getting very loopy here at work 
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I can't think of a better 3rd string QB in the league off the top of my head. If you get to your 3rd QB your in DEEP trouble. I think there is a lot of teams that would want Ken Dorsey as a #3.
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It's worth mentioning that after 1 preseason game last year many people on this board were suggesting we let Anderson go.
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It would be my last name...Cockadoodlepoopyshanker to be exact.
And my decision had nothing to do with Dorsey's performance...just his potential expendimability.
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Quote:
It's worth mentioning that after 1 preseason game last year many people on this board were suggesting we let Anderson go.
great point.
however, even the browns themselves didn't know about anderson, considering they had, what is now, a 3rd string quarterback ahead of derek anderson on the depth chart to begin last season.
the best point made in this topic is that if we get knocked down to our 3rd string qb, we're probably screwed as it is... that means the offensive line isn't protecting and it might be time to pack it in for the year...
i'm actually much more concerned with our backup qb situation should we lose anderson or quinn next season.
although that is an entire year away, and we really have no idea what the new season has in store for the browns...
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Quote:
It's worth mentioning that after 1 preseason game last year many people on this board were suggesting we let Anderson go.
I was probabley guilty of that at some point.
We dont need a 3rd QB, WE HAVE JOSH CRIBBS! 
Dorsey does have a weak arm. Bernie kept complaining that the WRs werent coming back to fight for the ball. The same TE(Rucker), and WRs that were making catches and looked good for the other QBs. But as someone else stated, if he had to throw to the Browns Pro Bowl playmakers, they might make those catches. He also had no running game. Hes safe for this year.
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Quote:
You know I hadn't pondered that scenario...guess if we do dump Quinn or Anderson then Dorsey would be valuable...
I don't know about that, I'd rather have Jared Zabransky than Dorsey. I don't see us dumping Anderson or Quinn either though. I believe Anderson will perform fine this year and Quinn is going to be in an Aaron Rodgers situation---in that he will be holding the clipboard for about three years. Then we will have a decision to make. But I don't see that happening until after next year.
We will see, but IMO Quinn will be patient and sit this year and next to see if an injury gives him an opportunity.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Quote:
It's worth mentioning that after 1 preseason game last year many people on this board were suggesting we let Anderson go.
For me it was after the second preseason game, but yeah, I was guilty of that..
That's two very very big mistakes I'd have made.. one, I'd not have signed Jamal Lewis and two, I'd have released Anderson..
All I can say is, it's a good thing I don't run the Browns 
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Dorsey will remain this year.
Next season someone is getting shipped out ...so we'll actually need a backup..I expect Dorsey to either be released or find a spot on the coaching staff somehow.
You're probably right, but that means 2 new QBs next year.
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Quote:
You're probably right, but that means 2 new QBs next year.
and that won't happen. We are a piece here and a part there from being a real contender. I have my doubts that Savage would take a strength and turn it into a weakness. That just doesn't sound like something he'd do.
I do suppose that depends on an overall plan. What he thinks he can pick up in FA and the Draft, but still, it's just not something I see Savage doing until his hand is forced. and I don't see Quinn as the kinda kid that would attempt that.
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I actually started a thread quite similar to this in the Jets gameday section (a couple of hours prior to this thread's creation)...so I'll just paste my comments here. After watching the 4th Qtr of the Jets game I was pretty bummed out that we lost. I know it's preseason and it doesn't matter, but we had soooo many chances to win that game but our QB just could not throw a catch-able ball to our receivers. In EO's thread I said that we better not get to the point where we need our 3rd string QB to play because we'd be sunk. I also said that if we have him to coach than make him an assistant and get somebody who can throw. One response was 'what team wouldn't be sunk with their 3rd stinger playing?'. can't argue that. Another response was that KD's a coach that plays. That taking advice from a player is different than coming from a coach....not good or bad, but different. But how much weight do ya give the advice from a player that you think you're 10 times better than? That pass that he threw to the left side of the end zone, while running left, had ZERO chance of being a TD for us. It had a better chance of being a Jet TD. The old saying is 'Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.' Well, KD shouldn't be put in a position where he might have to do.....because he 'does' so badly that it hurts his credibility. My impression of a 3rd string QB is that of a young kid that you've got a hunch might be something special. A late round pick perhaps. Or a Heisman winner that nobody thinks will make a good pro.  Heck, if we get to the point where we have to use KD....we're not gonna use him for more than one game. We'd go out and sign a Don Strock or somebody before we'd continue the season with him. I just don't see his 'mentor' value being enough to give him a roster spot.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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Not even as a comment on Dorsey, I would NEVER keep less than 3 qbs on the roster.
It works in practice, and as far as games go, you are one throwing hand slammed into a helmet from not having a back-up at the most important position on the field.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Another response was that KD's a coach that plays. That taking advice from a player is different than coming from a coach....not good or bad, but different.
But how much weight do ya give the advice from a player that you think you're 10 times better than?
i don't think quinn or anderson is thinking "why am i listening to this guy, he stinks!" while dorsey is helping break down a play for them.
look around the world of sports, guys that were marginally good, or even bad turn out to be very good coaches/managers/etc...
phil jackson, mike sciosca, joe torre
even our own eric wedge, who is a solid manager didn't even play in the bigs, do you think grady sizemore says "why should i listen to this guy, he didn't even make the major league level"?
none of us really know what goes on behind closed doors with the browns, what happens in the film room, or just on the practice field, but if ken dorsey didn't have a big impact on the other 2 quarterbacks on this team, he probably wouldn't be there.
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Quote:
Going with two QB's isn't that shocking. The Colts do it almost yearly
They always have three. They generally just stick their third string quarterback on the practice squad...Tom Arth, Josh Betts, Travis Brown.
A team does need a third-string QB, if for nothing else than to have someone who knows the system to run a scout team in the event that the 1 or 2 goes down.
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Quote:
Quote:
Going with two QB's isn't that shocking. The Colts do it almost yearly
They always have three. They generally just stick their third string quarterback on the practice squad...Tom Arth, Josh Betts, Travis Brown.
A team does need a third-string QB, if for nothing else than to have someone who knows the system to run a scout team in the event that the 1 or 2 goes down.
exactly...
i mean, if your number 1 goes down, then you're number 3 all of a sudden becomes a guy who is, as we all know, one play away from being the number 1
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Yeah but they have to add a that third QB to the active roster for it to count. Dorsey's on the active roster, where was Arth, Betts, etc never were. On gameday, they don't carry a third QB.
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Don't they have a rule you can activate them on the spot in an emergency??
I still carry 3 though.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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The following is a quote from "Californiabrownsfan" (hope I got the name right) earlier in this thread when I posed roughly the same question.. I think that makes getting rid of Dorsey to save an active roster spot moot. Quote:
Dorsey is the 46th player on game day. The league allows an extra player as an emergency QB to suit up and play if the first two quarterbacks go down.
I can't vouch for the accuracy of that statement, but it jives with what I thought was the case..
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Don't they have a rule you can activate them on the spot in an emergency??
I still carry 3 though.
Kinda... your Emergency QB, who is a player on your active 53 man roster, can be left off of your 45 man gameday roster but be activated at any time in an emergency, but you then cannot use either your #1 or #2 QB until like the end of the 4Qtr or something like that.
I still carry 3 as well.
You're talking about the bottom of the roster when you're talking about dropping your #3 QB for another player. That other player will only be contributing on ST at best otherwise they'd already be on the 45 man roster in another capacity... even if he is just charting the plays and talking to the other QB's between series and helping the O.Coord and QB coach, you're getting more value from a #3 like Dorsey.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
i don't think quinn or anderson is thinking "why am i listening to this guy, he stinks!" while dorsey is helping break down a play for them.
look around the world of sports, guys that were marginally good, or even bad turn out to be very good coaches/managers/etc...
phil jackson, mike sciosca, joe torre
 you're talking to a Knick fan that can name the whole lineup from memory for the time period that Phil Jackson played with them. (of course, that matters not). Phil played....and wasn't on the roster to be a 'mentor'. (of course, in basketball you don't have enough roster spots to keep players who stink just for their 'mentoring'). It was well after he (they) retired that they became coaches.
I agree, coaches don't have to have had stellar careers to be good coaches. There aren't too many coaches that 'were' good players. But in my opinion, you're coaching skills shouldn't warrant a roster spot on a team over somebody that can DO better on the field. Now, obviously, we don't have a QB that's competing for his spot....but again, it's my opinion, that we should have.
Quote:
even our own eric wedge,
Who's this 'our own'?
I'm a Yankee fan. You mean Joe Girrardi...
AL 29 76 14 R_K
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PPE - I'm with you, Daman, Peen. We were talking about this at the bar Thursday night. I don't see the point in not keeping a 3rd QB around? If you don't have a #3 QB, it means you have 8 inactives on gameday instead of 7*. Add in the good that Dorsey apparently adds to the locker room/QB room and it seems like a no brainer that a guy you hope never has to play can hang around like an extra coach but be available in an emergency, take some of the load of the other guys in practice, and run the other guys offense as scout team QB. After all, your smartest QB should be able to pick up the opponents O quicker than a developmental guy you are expecting to try to learn your O also. I say we keep Dorsey and continue to pray he never has to take a snap (or maybe just we get the chance to give him some snaps in a game we lead by 70 or to take the final snap in a Super Bowl  ).
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
Quote:
You're talking about the bottom of the roster when you're talking about dropping your #3 QB for another player.
Thanks for clearing up the emergency deal....I thought there was some provision for that.
I agree....roster spots are important, but they aren't so important you can't keep a 3rd qb who has a good mind for the game and helps immeasurably through the week.
To me, a 3rd string qb is way more important that some 4th string linebacker.
Somewhere on that roster you are going to find enough people to cover kicks.
I think people listen to head coaches to much. You could expand rosters to 55 and they would still be complaining about not having enough roster spots.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,103
Dawg Talker
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OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,103 |
If you carry an "emergency QB" on your roster, it allows an extra roster exemption. You can decide to bring in the emergency QB at any point during the game, BUT once you do one of your other two QB's has to sit out the remainder of the game (provided it's not before the fourth quarter). Once it hits the fourth you can do whatever you want with QB's.
What the Colts do (but may change this year at this early on because of Manning's injury) is not bother an emergency QB.
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