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and cofield would at least contribute.
im starting to wonder....
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"Failed" is a little harsh..
Maybe so. I just couldn't think of a word that described the situation better. I think we are past the point of giving a incomplete, and a passing grade doesn't fit.
At least IMO.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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maybe they just need to move him around a little instead of lining up the same place every time? I watched the Steelers 3-4 last night and they always put a little pressure on the QB. Our Browns defense looks like it hits a wall at the line of scrimmage. I want pressure. When the Lions 2nd string QB can sit comfortable in the pocket and have plenty of time to let his receivers make our DBacks look as bad as they are, something has got to change. I just don't see the DE's doing anything at all, they are so slow its sick.
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Quote:
maybe they just need to move him around a little instead of lining up the same place every time?
I agree. A little more time on the bench wouldn't hurt. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Too soon to question Wimbley, No not at all- he has kind of gotten a "free pass" up until now.
Too soon to say it a failed experiment- probably.
Too soon to question the new D coordinator- he may be in over his head. I love it how the main home page says the D improved- they gave up 16 in the first half, and their starters weren't in the entire time. not good
Didn't you like his new inside move-- its the one that gave up the TD run. My guess is that he was out of position???? But there was a missed tackle in the backfield, was it Smith that fell right at the guys feet? They kept showing the endzone pileup instead of the missed tackle in the backfield. All of it nauseating!!!
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With as poorly as our D is playing as a whole, I wonder how picking out one guy is valuable?
I didn't get to see the game yesterday,, but from everything I've read, sounds to me that outside of Rogers, we pretty much stunk up the place on D..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I wouldn't call him a failure as of yet. Is he ever going to be the 10-15 sacks per year kind of guy, no. However, I think he could be a 6-8 sacks per year kind of guy, but he does have to shore up his run support (I will say he is one of the surest tacklers, excluding Rothlisberger, on our team when he does get a hold of someone). He gets out of position on the back end of plays way too often.
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With as poorly as our D is playing as a whole, I wonder how picking out one guy is valuable?
I always look to see improvement in the individuals over the off-season as it is what drives the improvement of the unit. Seeing as it is painfully obvious that without a significantly improved pass rush we will be in serious trouble on D it is logical to look at the player who is supposed to be our best pass rusher. He cannot get off blocks and is showing himself to be a huge liability in the run game. This is a guy who we selected high in the draft and have pretty much handed him the job with zero competition. If he continues to become less and less effective than we will be far enough behind on the defensive side of the ball to consider that we might never have a defense that is viable while the while window is still open for the offense. Call me chicken little but I see bad things on the horizon for this team this season.
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A thread could have been started - and probably was - last year with the same title except you can replace the name Wimbley with Edwards.
Why are people so quick to dismiss the coaching here? Do we believe they have done enough? Who is our LBs coach anyway and what are his qualifications?
Or is it that he is being taught but just can't apply the lessons?
His problems all seem fixable.
He's only played two years. The experiment is far from over. But I agree, we need to see some improvement.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Why are people so quick to dismiss the coaching here?
There are alot of us who dont. The defensive wizardry which was supposed to be the hallmark of our HC hasnt been palpable in any way shape or form. Tucker doesnt get a free pass from me but I am not ready to question the whole thing yet as it is pre-season.
Basic preparation and discipline can always be questioned and they have become somewhat of a reoccurring theme
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I just want to make sure I get your thoughts correct. You think that a guy that has only played a position for 2 years his entire life is a failure because he isn't playing the game at the level of someone who has always been at that position? You think 2 years is enough time to learn a new position? It takes about 3 years to evaluate a player that has played a position their entire life and Wimbley is a failure because he's not doing as well as everyone on here expected. Unreal.
Yesterday, I saw Wimbley and Hall wreak havoc with their combined pass rush. Wimbley can do that because it's the one area that didn't have to be learned. He will improve in the other areas. It's a shame that we have so many fans with so little patience.
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Coach, what are your assessments on Wimbley?
It seems most fans, including myself, expect more, and I don't think that is too much to ask.
Where is the breakdown with him? Is it between the ears? Is it the coaching? What have you heard inside the walls of Berea?
Even to the untrained eye, he does not appear to be progressing and it's natural to ask 'why?'.
How do you see it?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I think yes.
Maybe it's time to look in another direction and consider the guy a situational pass rusher....not sure what situations those would be, but I just don't see this guy doing anything close to stopping runners or covering receivers or tight ends.
Alex Hall is better than Wimbley. I would rather start him and Willie.
Thoughts??
WTF r u guys gettin' so uptight about???
It's PRE SEASON...Anyone see Cincy and Palmer get skunked the 1st half last night???...ALL Starters in...What about Pitt gettin' skunked the 1st half...
Does that not tell u something about what time of year it is???
PEEN...ALL training camp we read about our Corners playin' TIGHT to the LOS...All of a sudden come gametime they lay off 10+ yards...U think Tucker all of a sudden said WE SUCK...Let's not play tight???
It's PRE SEASON...NOONE shows squat that they will come game one...How many fricken YEARS of watching this does it take to realize???????????????
BTW...BOTH Starting Safeties never saw the field last night...
You make me lmao with this quick trigger u have...
BTW...I could tell from LISTENING to the game that we STUFFED their 1st team running game...CONSTANTLY...And had excellent PRESSURE on Kitna...So much so that he was vacating the pocket...CONSTANTLY...
BTW...The ONE play you're pissin' about was a running play that we had a BRICK WALL up on and the back bounced outside...THAT'S HARD TO DEFEND BY ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Browns!!!
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This isnt the NFL of the 1970's anymore. The window for teams open and close alot quicker than they used to. We dont have the luxury of waiting for 4-5 years for a guy to "get it" when what the player is supposed to bring to the table is desperately needed now.
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I completely agree with you and Coach. Plus, I actually sat there at the game close to the field and let me say that Wimbley did a fine job against the run yesterday for the most part. He did not get sealed off as much as he used to do.
Let's wait for the season everyone.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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This isnt the NFL of the 1970's anymore. The window for teams open and close alot quicker than they used to. We dont have the luxury of waiting for 4-5 years for a guy to "get it" when what the player is supposed to bring to the table is desperately needed now.
And exactly WTH was Wimbley suppose to do with the JUNK in front of him the last 2 years???
And I use the word JUNK lightly...And that includes everyones LOVEFEST with Roye...Another OLD MAN POJ...
We finally have a line in front of these guys...LET IT PLAY OUT...And that don't mean in USELESS pre season games that NO TEAM shows squat in...
Thank God Savage don't have the "Trigger" u guys do...We'd be screwed...
Go Browns!!!
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because he's not doing as well as everyone on here expected.
How close is he then??
Is it like a light switch where either it's on or it isn't, or is it a progressive deal where you see improvements along the way??
I do know the answer.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I somewhere in between on this subject....I understand Peen but am also willing to let this year play out
He was drafted where Merriman and Ware were drafted and AFAIK those 2 were new to playing OLB too....and look how they developed and where they are...I think it´s only fair to compare Wimbley to them
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I think this is way too premature. Wimbley isn't very good against the pass or run, but he is a very good pass rusher which is his primary job. Like Coach said, he has only been playing Linebacker for two years; of course it's going to take him awhile to be good in coverage and against the run. I'm willing to give him another year to see if he can improve on these things.
Wimbley will never be a Merriman or Ware, but I still think he can be a very good pass rusher at OLB. He had 11 sacks as a rookie and I see no reason why he can't improve on that. The D-Line in front of him is tons better and he has much more talent rushing the passer along with him. Alex Hall and Antwan Peek are, IMO, crucial to Wimbley's success.
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I'll reply to all at once instead of multiple replies. The "breakdown" is mental, though I hate to use that word. Someone mentioned he was drafted ahead of Merriman. How many years has Merriman been playing LB? How many years has Wimbley? Wimbley's played the position 2 years and is trying to learn it at the HIGHEST level of competition. Yet, too many expect him to be polished and have the position down to where he can use his athletic ability instinctively. That's not going to happen in 2 years.
Is it a "light switch"? No, it's not. However, you can see Wimbley improving if you break down the film. Peen, you THINK you know the answer. You know I like you and respect you, but you really don't know the answer. The guy is progressing just fine....just not as fast as those that don't understand what he's undertaking would like.
His learning has been slowed because of the state our D was in as well. Kinda hard to transform from thinking through your job to doing it instinctively when you have such a porous DL and he hasn't even had much time to think.
Add to all of that the attention Wimbley has been drawing with his pass rush. What has been needed for the D is someone on the other side to take advantage of the attention Wimbley gets. We may have found that in Hall. Only 2 things can happen if we have. Hall lights it up because the offenses are focusing on Wimbley, or the attention is divided allowing Wimbley and Hall more opportunity to get to the QB. Either way, that's a good thing.
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Quote:
A thread could have been started - and probably was - last year with the same title except you can replace the name Wimbley with Edwards.
Why are people so quick to dismiss the coaching here? Do we believe they have done enough? Who is our LBs coach anyway and what are his qualifications?
Or is it that he is being taught but just can't apply the lessons?
His problems all seem fixable.
He's only played two years. The experiment is far from over. But I agree, we need to see some improvement.
Thank you for bringing some common sense to this ridiculous thread.
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I somewhere in between on this subject....I understand Peen but am also willing to let this year play out
He was drafted where Merriman and Ware were drafted and AFAIK those 2 were new to playing OLB too....and look how they developed and where they are...I think it´s only fair to compare Wimbley to them
Well you do have to admit that those two also get/have gotten a lot more help from the rest of their D.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Quote:
A thread could have been started - and probably was - last year with the same title except you can replace the name Wimbley with Edwards.
Why are people so quick to dismiss the coaching here? Do we believe they have done enough? Who is our LBs coach anyway and what are his qualifications?
Or is it that he is being taught but just can't apply the lessons?
His problems all seem fixable.
He's only played two years. The experiment is far from over. But I agree, we need to see some improvement.
Well, you asked for it lol:
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/coaches_detail.php?id=43
Mike Haluchak
Linebackers Coach
Year with Browns: 4th
Year in NFL: 23rd
Mike Haluchak is entering his fourth season as linebackers coach. Haluchak will continue to work with the young trio of linebackers drafted in 2006—first-round choice Kamerion Wimbley, second-round selection D’Qwell Jackson and fourth-round pick Leon Williams. Prior to joining the Browns, Haluchak served as linebackers coach for the Jacksonville Jaguars for two seasons (2003-04) and has 22 years of NFL coaching experience.
Haluchak joined Jacksonville from St. Louis, where he coached for three seasons (2000-02), including an appearance in Super Bowl XXXVI. Haluchak guided the Rams’ second-round draft choice Tommy Polley to the All-Rookie team in 2000. In addition, he has coached players to six Pro Bowls: Jesse Armstead (1997-99), Ken Harvey (1995-96) and Junior Seau (1991).
Haluchak began his NFL coaching career with San Diego in 1986 and spent six seasons with the Chargers. He has also coached with the Cincinnati Bengals (1992-93), Washington Redskins (1994-96) and N.Y. Giants (1997-99).
Haluchak was a high school coach in Southern California from 1972-75 and entered the collegiate ranks as a graduate assistant at USC (1976-77). Haluchak moved to Cal State-Fullerton in 1978 as defensive backfield coach. Haluchak’s first tour as a linebackers coach was at Pacific (1979-80). Haluchak coached at California (1981), North Carolina State (1982) and then coached three seasons with the Oakland Invaders of the USFL (1983-85).
Haluchak played linebacker and safety at Southern California during one of the most memorable periods in the storied history of USC football. He played in the 1969 and 1970 Rose Bowl games against Ohio State and Michigan.
Haluchak was born Nov. 28, 1949, in Concord, Calif. He holds a degree in history from Southern California and a master’s degree in secondary education from California Lutheran. Haluchak is married to his wife, Carol.
Coaching Background:
1972 Royal (Calif.) High School, head coach
1973 Elsinore (Calif.) High School, head coach
1974 Durate (Calif.) High School, head coach
1975 Royal (Calif.) High School, head coach
1976-77 University of Southern California, graduate assistant
1978 University of Cal State-Fullerton, defensive backfield coach
1979-80 University of Pacific, linebackers coach
1981 California, linebackers coach
1982 North Carolina State University, linebackers coach
1983-85 Oakland Invaders (USFL), linebackers coach
1986-91 San Diego Chargers, linebackers coach
1992-93 Cincinnati Bengals, linebackers coach
1994-96 Washington Redskins, linebackers coach
1997-99 N.Y. Giants, linebackers coach
2000-02 St. Louis Rams, linebackers coach
2003-04 Jacksonville Jaguars, linebackers coach
2005-08 Cleveland Browns, linebackers coach
Pretty darned good pedigree, IMO.
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Quote:
Wimbley isn't very good against the pass or run, but he is a very good pass rusher which is his primary job.
Maybe it has morphed in to that, but rushing the qb isn't the OLB primary job.
If that's what it is, just call him a DE, get a real MLB and a couple of real OLB's and play a 4-3.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Pretty darned good pedigree, IMO.
Lot of job hopping. Wonder why he can't hold a position more than a year or two??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Welcome to the world of coaching LOL. Seriously, look at the players he's developed.
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General reply:
We have barely even played a 3-4 base set with our starters on D. I dont get the basic crap in preseason. you would think that since we have been playing this defense for a few years now that other teams would have seen what our defense actually looks like. I believe you do what you do and let the other team deal with it.
Sure if u are adding some new wrinkles u will want to hold them to the regular season but why not work on what you are actually gonna run. This soft camp stuff blah, pink panty football.
As for Wimbley he didnt have the sack numbers last year but i thought he improved his game as a whole. Look i hated the draft pick and pretty much that entire draft class but I believe with the new line and with Hall on the opposite side we will be able to get some pressure. as for judging the kid in preseason, it would be easier to judge him if we actually worked on the defense we will be running.
I hate this D scheme to start with but thats for another topic.
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I dont get the basic crap in preseason. you would think that since we have been playing this defense for a few years now that other teams would have seen what our defense actually looks like. I believe you do what you do and let the other team deal with it.
I agree man...
If you're not playing the defense that you'll be playing in the regular season...WTF r u doing out there???...Gettin' in "Football Shape" is all I can think of...lol...
Injuries be damned...I'd still like to see the ones playing an entire half in every pre season game...Work on perfecting what your going to be doing during the season...At least all the BASE stuff...
Never did like pullin' the ones after one series in games 1 and 4...
Go Browns!!!
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Furthermore...lol...
U show your stuff game 1...So teams prepare for you every week...This is like not wanting your OPENING DAY opponent to know what's going on...
I'd rather have my stuff being worked to perfection and let my game one opponent prepare for it than to hide stuff and not be prepared myself...
Dumb & Dumber...Sometimes this REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!!!
Go Browns!!!
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All Pro
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There are only 3 options here IMO. #1... Stick it out with Wimbley. #2... Trade Wimbley to a 4-3 team in return for picks or a corner... #3... Develop a hybrid defense where he can play D-end. Probably go to a 4-3.
No way we keep him as just a situational guy.
"The Browns are a club contenders probably don't want to face right now. Their physicality cannot be questioned."
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I was wondering about the possibility of switching to a 4-3, considering we just picked up two veteran free agents that played primarily in a 4-3... just a thought..
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Ive never liked 3-4 defense. I would seriously consider a 4-3. If your D-line can get pressure on the other teams QB you can just drop 7. If you dont include the patriots only 1 other team that ran a 3-4 has won the superbowl this decade.
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4-3 would be easy... rodgers and smith at dt... wimbley and williams at DE.
"The Browns are a club contenders probably don't want to face right now. Their physicality cannot be questioned."
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Wimbley and Williams are not DE's. If we would do that Wimbley would still be a LB and Williams would be inside with Rogers. We'd have to get two new ends and Wimbley would not be a good 4-3 linebacker at all. Same with Peek, Willie, and Hall. The fact is we are built for the 3-4 and it would set us back years if we would attempt to switch.
BTW I like the 3-4 better anyway.
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Wasnt wimbley a DE in college? I prefer the 4-3 over the 3-4. However I agree that switching defensive schemes would set this team back for a few years.
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Quote:
Yesterday, I saw Wimbley and Hall wreak havoc with their combined pass rush. Wimbley can do that because it's the one area that didn't have to be learned. He will improve in the other areas. It's a shame that we have so many fans with so little patience.
Coach, first off, I do not agree with Peen in that he has failed, or even come close. What I will say is that I have given up the notion that this guy can be "great."
I will say that I have been complaining about him not ever using another move other than that damn "duck under" move. Why is he not ever using a spin move EVER?
Now, the main thing I notice with him is that he has poor instincts and vision out their. I agreee that him and Hall wreaked a bit of havoc yesterday, but he NEEDS to finish the damn job when he gets close. I just don't see a guy that closes the deal out their. Obviously, you can't close the deal all the time, but he sure seems like he is getting handled more easily than he should be, given his talent. Close is great, but when you get in their you gotta smell blood and FINISH once in awhile.
I dunno, maybe he just isn't as talented as a lot of us thought.
I heart winning
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I support Peens comments here to an extent. Wimbley is a good ball player, he just isn't a 3-4 Linebacker. Here is why I have a problem with the NFL running a 3-4. Not enough colleges (and not many highschools that I know) run the 3-4. So most pass rushers are 4-3 ends, not 3-4 OLB's.
The NFL is a what have you done for me lately league, how can the Browns expect us to wait 3-5 years on a top ten pick to develop??? Most non QB top ten picks should be able to jump in and make a immediate impact/upgrade to their side of the ball.
If that was the case, don't spend your money on drafting a project like Wimbley. He had success his first year because teams didn't know his skill set. Now that they understand he has one move and one move only, he is no longer as effective.
In my eyes, Wimbley is a passing down player. A 3rd and long special pass rusher, not an every down Outside Linebacker.
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Quote:
In my eyes, Wimbley is a passing down player. A 3rd and long special pass rusher, not an every down Outside Linebacker.
Sounds like that extent you mentioned is to a great extent. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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The dude had 11 sacks as a rookie. Let's see if he can reproduce that kind of season as a pass rusher with Shaun Rogers and Corey Williams playing next to him instead of Ethan Kelley and Simon Fraser before we can jump to any conclusions. I think it's hilarious how much people buy into what happens in the preseason, they aren't even using anything more than extremely basic defensive coverages out there, let along putting their bodies on the line to risk injury.
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Posts: 2,465
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465 |
One thing I saw of Hall that I dont see Wimbley do, is get his hands up to bat down a pass, if he cant get to the QB. If Wimbley doest get there the QB gets the ball off. Hall did a very good job of getting his hands up to attempt to knock the pass down. There were a couple times during the game yesterday, that I was yelling at defensive players to get their hands up. The coaches have to see this.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kamerion Wimbley fine-tunes his
rush
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