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I want you guys to think about something. Do you see all of the people who are being questioned or blamed in regards to how Leon has behaved?
Now.........how can that possibly be a good thing?
And Diam.......I know you don't like Robo, but when it is reported that he was fired, in part, because he couldn't control Leon..............how is that handling things 100 % correctly? Are you serious?
And are are you really telling me that Savage saying that Leon has immense pressure on him because he makes a lot of money and played for Michigan in an Ohio State team isn't coddling him and making excuses for him?
I don't think they should have chastized him in public either. But, I still maintain that making excuses for him and blaming others for his problems only reinforces the negative behavior.
And let me ask you this..............what do you think about drafting Leon w/the # 3 overall now. It's been two years. Have any comment at all?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I agree. Saying the dumping of Robo was due in part to Braby's actions is a crock of crap.
We might not agree on why he was fired, or even if he deserved to be fired, but that line is crazy talk.
I do agree....Savage seems determined to see that Braby works out.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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And let me ask you this..............what do you think about drafting Leon w/the # 3 overall now. It's been two years. Have any comment at all?
Let's break down the top 10 of that draft...
1 San Francisco Alex Smith - QB - Looks to become a solid QB. May be nothing truly special but he took a quantum leap this season.
2 Miami Ronnie Brown - RB - looks to be a potentially special RB, O-line holds him back
3 Cleveland Braylon Edwards - WR - despite drops and character concerns, had a pretty good year considering he tore his ACL in December. Was still hoping for more, part of me thinks the QB and OL play had a lot to do with his "pedestrian" production, and to say 900 yards receiving coming off an ACL tear is bad would be unfair, let alone having a chump like Frye throwing and a horrible line.
4 Chicago Cedric Benson - RB - horrific rookie year, finally seems to be getting it, Edwards' production has been superior thus far
5 Tampa Bay Carnell Williams - RB - monster start but has cooled off this season, once again, OL could be an issue.
6 Tennessee Adam Jones - CB - Makes plays but his off-field and on-field issues make him the true "Leon" of this draft. You'd be just as pissed if we took this guy if not moreso.
7 Minnesota Troy Williamson - WR - Edwards doubled his output this year.
8 Arizona Antrel Rolle - CB - Not sure, don't watch enough of Arizona to make a fair evaluation. Don't think he was invited to the pro bowl though.
9 Washington Carlos Rogers - CB - my neighbor who's a skins fan HATES this guy.
10 Detroit Mike Williams - WR - Mel Kiper had him ranked #1 on his board over Edwards...I'm glad we have Phil Savage doing the drafting TO SAY THE LEAST ABOUT HOW AWFUL THIS GUY AS BEEN.
So, ideally we should have taken Ronnie Brown, problem being that Brown was taken a spot ahead of us. Who else was there to take?
In the big picture, the Edwards pick isn't so stupid at all.
Last edited by Ammo; 01/15/07 08:48 PM.
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You kinda remind me of soup. Quote:
In the big picture, the Edwards pick isn't so stupid at all.
You make up the evaluations, including saying your neighbor hates a guy; make no mention of the two offers we had to trade down; and act like his lack of character isn't an issue. You do realize that is why Joe came out publicly, don't you? Leon is causing HUGE problems in the locker room.
That's part of the Big Picture. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
You kinda remind me of soup.
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In the big picture, the Edwards pick isn't so stupid at all.
You make up the evaluations, including saying your neighbor hates a guy; make no mention of the two offers we had to trade down; and act like his lack of character isn't an issue. You do realize that is why Joe came out publicly, don't you? Leon is causing HUGE problems in the locker room.
That's part of the Big Picture.
Who should we have taken out of that list? Only guy who even looks good to me is Cadillac Williams.
No one else was on the radar at #3.
This is the first I've heard about trading down.
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I want you guys to think about something. Do you see all of the people who are being questioned or blamed in regards to how Leon has behaved?
Yes ... but i don't understand your line of questioning here ... more in a sec ...
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Now.........how can that possibly be a good thing?
its a HORRIBLE thing on many different levels ... with the FIRST and truely only IMPORTANT LEVEL being that he behaved in the manner he did ..
but before i adress your first question .... how do u mean "questioned" about his behavior .. do u mean like Joe J. and every player ont he team being questioned by the media?? cause if so .. I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT what the sharks drawn to blood circle asks our players AFTER THE SEASON IS OVER ..
if by questioned U mean everyone and there mother jumping all over RAC for this .. i think their DOLTS who see sumptin they want changed and blame the head man for it .. its HUMAN NATURE .. but in my world it aint right ..
by blame do u mean Robo "supposedely" being fired for it?? well if that WHY he was fired .. thats a SHAME .. SCAPEGOATING SUCKS .... i HOPE we didnt do that (U or I will NEVER KNOW .. ) .. and to me if it did happen as much as i HATE SCAPEGOATING .. this would be a POSITIVE RESULT out of bad decision making .. he has DESERVED TO BE FIRED FOR A FEW YEARS NOW ..
I would realate it to convicting a robber for a robbery he didnt do ... he didnt commit the crime he was jailed for but he certainly commied enough to go to jail for he wasn't cYught doing .. 
and the only one that CAN RIGHTFULLY be BLAMED for his behavior and MORE IMPORTANTLY the only one that can CHANGE THE BAHAVIOR is Breby himself ..
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how is that handling things 100 % correctly? Are you serious?
*LOL* .. did u take spin (LYING) lessons from bOtch and the Don ... how do u come up with that ... I said i think they handled it 100% correctly since the season ended and then LAID IT OUT .. no where did i say firing robo was part of that ...
and it is SPECUALATION that Robo was fired in part due to Breby .. the only one that said that as far as i know is ROBO HIMSELF .. and i trust him just slightly more than i trust bOtch or the don ..
if and thats a BIG IF we fired Robo because of Breby's TUDE then that is HORRIBLE ..... but i don't buy that ..
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And are are you really telling me that Savage saying that Leon has immense pressure on him because he makes a lot of money and played for Michigan in an Ohio State team isn't coddling him and making excuses for him?
thats what there saying PUBLICLY VERSE ... if they said that in PRIVATE to him then their CODDLING HIM ... i highly doubt they did ... but in PUBLIC i have NO PROBLEM WITH THEM saying they UNDERSTAND the behavior ..
CODDLING or MAKING EXCUSES would be them CONDONING THE BEHAVIOR .. your way off base here IMO ..
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I don't think they should have chastized him in public either. But, I still maintain that making excuses for him and blaming others for his problems only reinforces the negative behavior.
I don't think there doing that ... so its all good .. *L*
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And let me ask you this..............what do you think about drafting Leon w/the # 3 overall now. It's been two years. Have any comment at all?
I HATED the pick then as u WELL KNOW .... but Nuttin U or I can do about it .. and i UNDERSTAND what they were doing .. just because i don't rip them a new a-hole at every turn don't mean i am all of a sudden ecstatic about it .. i will just give him time ....
my comment is the same as it was a week ago ....
THIS IS A HUGE OFF SEASON FOR BREY both ON and OFF the field .. he WORKED his ass off to rehab the knee .. lets hope he works just as hard on his tude .. cause the boy has some PHYSICAL SKILLS u just can't teach and he has HUGE UPSIDE and we need him to pan out ... he can do things we've NEVER HAD A WR since our return could do ..
as much as I HATED the pick Vers and as much as i HATE WHAT HE DID THIS PAST SEASON ... that does not change the FACT that we ....
NEED HIM ... our lives will all be a hell of alot easier if he PANS OUT .. and the boy has SOME MAD SKILLS ...
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its a HORRIBLE thing on many different levels ... with the FIRST and truely only IMPORTANT LEVEL being that he behaved in the manner he did ..
but before i adress your first question .... how do u mean "questioned" about his behavior .. do u mean like Joe J. and every player ont he team being questioned by the media?? cause if so .. I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT what the sharks drawn to blood circle asks our players AFTER THE SEASON IS OVER ..
if by questioned U mean everyone and there mother jumping all over RAC for this .. i think their DOLTS who see sumptin they want changed and blame the head man for it .. its HUMAN NATURE .. but in my world it aint right ..
I meant that a lot of people have come under fire because of his actions.
Depending on what camp they are in, people will blame RAC for Leon's actions.
Or, they might blame Savage for Leon's actions.
They might blame Robo for Leon's actions.
They might even blame his teammates for Leon's actions.
What I'm trying to get at............that's not a good thing for the T-E-A-M.
No matter how you slice it or dice it..........such things are NEVER good for the team.
And look here. I blame Savage for drafting the guy...........BUT, I am not blaming Savage for how Leon acted. Although, I do think he coddled him. More on that later.
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how is that handling things 100 % correctly? Are you serious?
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*LOL* .. did u take spin (LYING) lessons from bOtch and the Don ... how do u come up with that ... I said i think they handled it 100% correctly since the season ended and then LAID IT OUT .. no where did i say firing robo was part of that ...
and it is SPECUALATION that Robo was fired in part due to Breby .. the only one that said that as far as i know is ROBO HIMSELF .. and i trust him just slightly more than i trust bOtch or the don ..
if and thats a BIG IF we fired Robo because of Breby's TUDE then that is HORRIBLE ..... but i don't buy that ..
I come up w/that because I think firing coaches, thinking about changing the offensive scheme, saying that he makes too much money and played for Michigan in an Ohio State town are NOT handling things right.
What the hell is so hard to figure out about that? 
Oh....let me add this. I am NOT saying that is the only reason Robo was fired. It was......"part" of the reason. LOL
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I HATED the pick then as u WELL KNOW .... but Nuttin U or I can do about it .. and i UNDERSTAND what they were doing .. just because i don't rip them a new a-hole at every turn don't mean i am all of a sudden ecstatic about it .. i will just give him time ....
I forgot you hated it. My fault.
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THIS IS A HUGE OFF SEASON FOR BREY both ON and OFF the field .. he WORKED his ass off to rehab the knee .. lets hope he works just as hard on his tude .. cause the boy has some PHYSICAL SKILLS u just can't teach and he has HUGE UPSIDE and we need him to pan out ... he can do things we've NEVER HAD A WR since our return could do ..
as much as I HATED the pick Vers and as much as i HATE WHAT HE DID THIS PAST SEASON ... that does not change the FACT that we ....
NEED HIM ... our lives will all be a hell of alot easier if he PANS OUT .. and the boy has SOME MAD SKILLS
I agree w/you. This is a huge off season for him. He does have great skills, at least on some levels. I also hope he can turn things around.
I guess I disagree w/you on how the Browns are handling it. I do think they are coddling him. Bro, the making money and Michigan comments were BEYOND lame. Savage also made an excuse by saying that as we get better, Edwards will get better. In other words, his attitude will improve.
LOL........sorry, but this guy should be the face of the franchise, not the ass of it. 
And blaming coaches for not handling him properly is sending a wrong message.
I really hope I am wrong and you can make fun of me next year for being wrong. And........I readily admit I could be wrong....but, I have a bad feeling about this kid.
We'll see.
BTW............I will respond to your Season in Review thread later. I gotta put some thought into it before I respond.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
The world is full of morons who use "common sense" as justification for a myopic world view or opinions they are unable to express with fact.
So you think the best course of action is to rake a player over in the media for lack of maturity
You haven't read a damn word I've posted in this thread!
Try comprehending this at least one time,since this is pretty much the third time I've said it..........................................
"Phil should not be *sticking up* for him in the press." Nowhere in this thread did I say he should have put him down,degraded him or "raked" him about anything. NOWHERE! So I'm sorry your comprehention skills didn't grasp that.
And try looking at the question I asked you. Maybe you'd like to try answerring it?
I didn't say paste the kid to the wall at all. In one response,I even said "Phil didn't have to say anything". But excusing or rewarding bad behavior does not help. Are you getting what I'm saying yet? Or do I need to post it a few more times?
Maybe you should "read the posts" rather than "read things into them". Because NOWHERE in this thread have I even suggested Phil make any negative comments in a public setting toward Leon.
I think it is called for after his repeated ignorance,but it wouldn't be PC nor do I think it would be of any benifit during the off season. His actions have earned him ridicule. But I'm not sure that would be a constructibve way of dealing with the problem.
so are we clear now? Or are you going to go off the deep end again on a tangent that doesn't exist?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
And are are you really telling me that Savage saying that Leon has immense pressure on him because he makes a lot of money and played for Michigan in an Ohio State team isn't coddling him and making excuses for him?
I don't think they should have chastized him in public either. But, I still maintain that making excuses for him and blaming others for his problems only reinforces the negative behavior.
PRECISELY!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
I meant that a lot of people have come under fire because of his actions.
Depending on what camp they are in, people will blame RAC for Leon's actions.
Or, they might blame Savage for Leon's actions.
They might blame Robo for Leon's actions.
They might even blame his teammates for Leon's actions.
What I'm trying to get at............that's not a good thing for the T-E-A-M.
No matter how you slice it or dice it..........such things are NEVER good for the team.
I agree .. it is HORRIBLE for the team ... I don't think anyone has ever said what Breby has done is a positive for the team ...
u make no point here in our debate as far as I'm concerned ..
YOUR HONOR I CONCEDE that Brey brey's actions have been detrimental to the team and there is not one positive thing to take from his actions or words ...
there .. now u don't have to make that point again ..
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I come up w/that because I think firing coaches, thinking about changing the offensive scheme, saying that he makes too much money and played for Michigan in an Ohio State town are NOT handling things right.
and i AGREE 100% with all of the above ... if one coach was fired or were changing our offensive schemes for this idiot (just curious ... what was or is our offensive scheme?? ... ) then there sending the wrong message ... luckily for me I dont believe that for a nanoo second ...
and IF when Opie/RAC (they should have done this one together so Brey knows Opie has RAC's back here and is aware of whats going on .. ) met with Brey at the end of the year they said they "understood" his actions because of how much $$ he makes or that he played for Fichigan and now is in Suckeye land .. then there IDIOTS ... but again its lucky for me that I dont believe anything near that happend .. i believe he was given the letter of the law and next year this crap wont be even close to tolerated ... and that is EXACTLY HOW IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED ..
U lay down the law and then go support him as best U can in public ... I have not seen OPIE CONDONE his behavior ... and that is all i care about .. he can make up all the BS he wants to to try and protect brey to the press .. he has to ANSWER THE QUESTIONS IN SOME MANNER .. (and Pit .. he does have to answer .. cause if he says NO COMMENT he is saying sumptin .. there is NO SUCH THING AS NOT ANSWERING A QUESTION .. ) .. and to me that is the ABSOLUTE CORRECT way to do it .. u NEVER EVER WANT TO CHASTISE your players publiclcy ... EVER .. that is just negative as hell and will produce negative results almost every time ..
he did EXACTLY WHAT HE SHOULD HAVE IMO .. i'll go out on a limb here and say that i think we may have a slight disagreement on this .. *L*
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Savage also made an excuse by saying that as we get better, Edwards will get better. In other words, his attitude will improve.
bro .. u know thats a 100% true statement .. it has been true throughout the history of sports .. WINNING CURES ALOT OF ILLS ...
is it really relevant to what brey did last year? NOPE .. but is SAYING SOMETHING without throwing GAS on the FIRE ... witch is all Opie should be doing now ..
I agree .. the Fichigan/Suckeye and $$$ stuff was LAME as hell .. but sometimes LAME IS ALL U GOT .. and IMO LAME was definetlythe way to go .. just remember bro ...
GAS ON THE FIRE IS BAD ... and will not help in this situation at all ...
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I really hope I am wrong and you can make fun of me next year for being wrong.
i wont make fun of U after the fact .. not my style . i tend to make fun of and pi$$ people off before the fact .. *L* ... U can say alot of things about me Vers .. but one thing i NEVER EVER DO is rub peoples noses in crap after the fact ...
and in this case .. were actually prolly on the same side as how this will end .. our disagreement is how it should have been handled up till this point .. and my gut is that no matter how this was handled it was going to end the same way .. cause at the end of the day my friend ..
BREY IS EITHER GOING TO GROW UP OR NOT .. our discipline or lack thereof isn;t going to make him grow up UNLESS HE WANTS TO .. all we can control is how long hes here if he remains a detriment to the team .. U should know .. NO ONE CAN CHANGE SOMEONES BEHAVIOR OTHER THAN THEMSELVES .. 
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Quote:
this point .. and my gut is that no matter how this was handled it was going to end the same way .. cause at the end of the day my friend ..
BREY IS EITHER GOING TO GROW UP OR NOT .. our discipline or lack thereof isn;t going to make him grow up UNLESS HE WANTS TO .. all we can control is how long hes here if he remains a detriment to the team .. U should know .. NO ONE CAN CHANGE SOMEONES BEHAVIOR OTHER THAN THEMSELVES ..
We disagree on some of the details, but I think we agree on what is really important. Case closed.
Time to move on to the next debate. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Pick # 11 or 12 to S.D. Sean Merriman seems to have worked out pretty well for the Chargers, ok, I know he's had an issue with performance enhancing crap but I think he will overcome that and be one of the best LB's in football for many seasons.
Now I'm not sure how highly projected he was at the time but IF Phil is the draft guru he was brought here to be, then why didn't he recognize the talent???
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An "issue???" The dude deserves to be sitting out of football for a long time (ok 6 games). NFL needs to get serious about this stuff, or else it turns into pro wrestling. Oh I didn't KNOW the "supplements" that suddenly had me gaining 30 lbs or lifting more than I ever lifted, or ran faster than I ever have could possibly have been steroids. BS. 
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Now I'm not sure how highly projected he was at the time but IF Phil is the draft guru he was brought here to be, then why didn't he recognize the talent???
LMAO.. I love second guessers.. Merriman was projected mid first round for a number of reasons. He was only a junior, he didn't really have a position, he was part LB, part DE, part DT.... which makes you versatile but isn't all that encouraging to the NFL.... He had only started one full season at Maryland...
This is what one of the draft sits said about him....
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He isn't fundamentally sound at this point and he will most likely make his biggest contributions as a situational pass rusher and on special teams during his rookie season. However, Merriman clearly has the talent to eventually make an impact as a fulltime starter at the next level
yebat' Putin
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The bottom line when looking at the top 10 of this draft, Edwards looks to be on par with the other top picks in this draft. He's by far and away the best WR taken in the top 10.
Ronnie Brown, as good as he looks, only ran for 1008 yards this year. I think most of that was due to the line in front of him sucking, but likewise, our QB sucks.
Out of those top 10 players, Edwards is right up there with the best of them, if not moreso. AND he just came off ACL surgery to boot.
That's NOT making excuses for him. I hate his attitude and inconsistent hands. But it is what it is. He was pretty productive compared to the other guys on this list.
This situation will shake out better next year, but for now, Edwards is right there with the top guys on this list.
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Just a side note;
Many wealthy people who run and own corperations aren't in a "fan based business". Their profit and loss margin isn't determined by people "outside their business".
I bet those same "wealthy people" do listen to their advertising departments on "how to market" their product in most cases.
Well,that's where I agree with Verse here! The FANS dictate this teams popularity. We and the media,strongly influence the way people percieve Jr. His buisiness "The Browns" are made or broken on the backs of the fan.
He's not some widget maker from Boise. Quite a different ball game all together.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Holy crap i totally forgot about this thread and was really confused when i saw the topic...  It's like 2 months old..geez
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Yeah, same here! I forgot I even started this thread almost 2 months ago! Hopefully it will get deleted soon...
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Glad Phil is still da man here.
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Yeah, same here! I forgot I even started this thread almost 2 months ago! Hopefully it will get deleted soon...
 I don't blame ya. I seen this and started downloading the WTAM Savage link. No, Phil don't go, not now.
"They had it before you, They had it during you, They"ll have it after you're gone."
Al McGuire on Kentucky basketball tradition.
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