DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum For all of the "Lebron's gonna leave" folks..chew on this!

Pat's Beside the Point: Superstar gazing

Cavaliers aligning themselves for a running mate for LeBron

By Patrick McManamon
Beacon Journal sports columnist

Published on Sunday, Aug 24, 2008

It's time to change our thinking about the future of LeBron James, time to turn the viewpoint that James will leave Cleveland on its ear — for good reason.

Because the Cavs seem to have something very slick and important up their sleeve. And that is to keep James and give him a superstar-caliber cohort as a teammate.

The vision — and it's not a pipe dream — has James staying and playing on the same team as Dwyane Wade. Or Chris Bosh. Or Josh Howard. Or Amare Stoudamire. Or any of the other big-name NBA guys who can become a free agent in the summer of 2010.

Don't laugh.

There is only one NBA team positioned to sign two superstars in 2010, and that's the Cavaliers.

That's because there's only one team with a superstar and the cap room to sign another.

Everyone has been focusing on the cap space of the New Jersey Nets or the New York Knicks or Athens, Greece, but the Cavs quietly have manipulated themselves to the point that they have more salary-cap room than anyone for that offseason.

The Cavs have almost $30 million in cap space — and that counts James' salary, which will go away when he opts out of his final year.

As of today the Cavs have four players under contract (sort of) in 2010-11: James for $17 million (though he's probably going to be a free agent), Maurice Williams for $9.3 million, Daniel Gibson for $4 million and J.J. Hickson on a team option for $1.5 million.

That's it.

Wally Szczerbiak's contract expires after this season.

Ben Wallace goes after two seasons.

So does Zydrunas Ilgauskas.

Other players surely will be added to the roster, but the Cavs won't add anyone who will compromise their ability to bring in talent in 2010.

This, apparently, is what General Manager Danny Ferry always talks about when he says he wants to maintain future roster flexibility.

The Cavs realistically will be able to re-sign James and add another top-caliber player, as well as the other pieces and parts needed to make a team.

All they have to do is sign the other free agents first, then sign LeBron. Because NBA rules state a team can go over the cap to sign its free agent.

Another team might want to add James, of course. But no other team will be able to add James and another max contract. To do so, a team would need $40 million or so in cap room. The cap is projected to be $60 million in 2010, which means a team would have two guys with max deals and a bunch of other ''guys'' who would average, at the most, $2 million a year.

Which means it would be a bunch of Developmental League guys and two stars.

The myth of NBA free agency is that a standout will leave his team willingly.

The reality is that it doesn't happen that often. The perception grows because it is a huge story when someone like Steve Nash or Shaquille O'Neal changes teams. Most of the time, a player stays where he can make the most money for the longest number of years.

So the thinking should be to expect James to stay.

But the reality is that he could stay, and the Cavs — not the Knicks or the Los Angeles Lakers or the Miami Heat — could add another star to go with him.

Enough with the angst already.

As the Cavs no doubt are thinking — and if they're not thinking this way, they're nuts — it's not about James leaving Cleveland in 2010. It's about what superstar will join him in Cleveland

http://www.ohio.com/sports/cavs/27328589.html

Um.......

How does this guy not see the flip side of his own argument.

Toronto can sign LeBron James then sign Chris Bosh.
Phoenix can sign LBJ then sign Amare Stoudamire
Miami can sign LBJ then sign Dwayne Wade.

Pat McManamon is an idiot.

All this means is that we'll have the money to re-sign LeBron, and go after someone else. What if that "someone else", doesn't want to play in Cleveland, and doesn't sign. And what if LeBron just doesn't want to play here, regardless of money?

I fail to see how this means LeBron is staying.

The gist of the article is that nobody can offer Lebron more money than the Cavs. They are also positioning themselves to make a big run at one of the huge names that's set to become available.

I could definitely see Wade leaving Miami to play with Lebron, and I could see Bosh leaving Toronto to play with Lebron. I really don't see Lebron leaving the Cavs, NE Ohio, and a LOT of money on the table to go play somewhere else.

thats exactly what it boils down to, if lebron knows the cavs are aligning to pull something like this off, and he'll get the most money from the cavs, no way he leaves. I could easily see any superstar wanting to play with lebron, but as it is for the cavs, their current team can offer them more than the cavs to stay(if they drafted them) but if a championship is what they want i can see them taking less to go somewwhere..ala shaq. Honestly the 1 person i can see coming here is Bosh, he's had it bad so long he'd probably love to come to a winning atmosphere

If his premise is that we can sign player X, then LBJ due to the "Larry Bird rule" then why is it that those other teams couldn't do the same in 2010?

I don't know the cap situation of these other teams....but

there are ways to clear cap for just this scenario. it wouldn't be hard.


Bottom line I don't see how this cement's James' stay in Cleveland.

Quote:

---

And what if LeBron just doesn't want to play here, regardless of money?

---

Then all of the discussion in the world is moot. All the Cavs can do is what they are doing, put themselves in a position to offer him the max and bring in another superstar to complement him and have a solid group of roll players...

If he wants to leave, he'll leave. but my guess is that he would only leave for a better chance to win a championship... As for the others not wanting to come here.. I don't see how they wouldn't want the same thing, the best chance to win a championship... (Assuming the money is close to equal)

I don't see Lebron leaving for a better chance at a championship, unless the Cavs really go downhill these next two years. Think about how close they've been the last two years, and how bad those Cavs teams were.

If the Cavs give Lebron enough of a showing that they're going to do their best to bring in another big name, I don't see him going anywhere else. Especially since no one can offer him more money.

When lebron won gold medal I could have sworn he looked at the camera and said this is for you oho, or something along those lines. Anyone else see it?

If we can do this...This is setting itself up sweet...

With Williams on board now the PG spot is solid...

I'm curious to see who of these 4 u guys would want most...

Keeping in mind that Z will no longer be on this team at that point...

Bosh at PF???

Stoudamire at C???

Wade at SG???

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

A down low presence would be superb in Bosh and Stoudamire...Yet there sits that SG that can put up 20+ a night...

Kobe'/Shaq
Jordan/Pippen
Garnett/Pierce

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...This is gonna get real good...

I would go with one of the big men. I like DWade and he is good for 20 a night, but he's more of a slasher and a driver and less of a spot-up shooter, which is what I think we need.

LeBron is still in the process of building his mansion between Cleveland and Akron. There is serious stuff going in there. It still has time to be completed (I know people that worked/are working on it). I know its not a determining factor - but he will be moved in with his family within a year. Do you think he'll leave, after only being in his completely custom mansion for less than a year? Additionally, we can pay him more (much more...20+ million) than any other team in the NBA.

The reason we can sign an upper echelon player and Miami/Toronto, etc cannot is because we have the cap space available in that year...they will not. If will take LeBron's coaxing to get them to come....they can still resign with their current teams for 20+ million more than we can offer. I think Bosh has the best chance of making the switch.

it can happen.

because of the guy running this show, mr dan gilbert, who has proved to the entire basketball world that he won't spare any expense...

the guy clearly wants to win a championship, multiple championships

if the cavs can sign lebron to that huge historic deal, i could definitely see a guy like bosh, or stoudemire, and maybe to a lesser extent, dwyane wade...

i said months ago that lebron's status in cleveland will rest on what danny ferry can do with our roster, step one was adding a very solid point guard in mo williams, a guy who's potential is pretty big, definitely more than larry hughes ever was, if this guy buys into mike brown's philosophy, the cavs could explode and own the eastern conference.

i've always said that the nba is a league with a smaller league inside of it... the elite. if you look back over the last 20-30 years, only a small handful of teams have won championships, celtics, lakers, bulls, spurs, pistons, rockets, and the heat

i've always said the cavs were on the outside of that bubble, but have shown that they can still hang with those teams, with williams added, and also the possibility of somoene else, they enter taht group

Here's the first googled article i found and it showed that plenty of teams...including the Heat have the ability to do this double deal : http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9820


RUMOR HAS IT…

Today's section is geared exclusively towards the latest rumors floating around the NBA …

Summer of 2010: While The Summer of 2009, may be intriguing - especially if Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant opts out of contract and decides to explore free agency - it pales to the massive potential of 2010.

The economics of today's NBA is very well shaped by 2010 as teams are position themselves to have significant cap space for a crack at superstars like Cleveland Cavaliers forward LeBron James, Miami HEAT guard Dwyane Wade and Phoenix Suns forward/center Amare Stoudemire. Whether or not a superstar actually decides to relocate is moot - teams today are preparing for the ultimate "what if?"

As detailed earlier in the week:

Beyond the big three (James, Wade and Stoudemire), other big names possibly available could be Atlanta Hawks guard Joe Johnson, the Boston Celtics big pair of guard Ray Allen and forward Paul Pierce, Dallas Mavericks former MVP Dirk Nowitzki, Houston Rockets core guard/forward Tracy McGrady and center Yao Ming, Milwaukee Bucks guard Michael Redd, Milwaukee Bucks forward Richard Jefferson, New Orleans Hornets center Tyson Chandler, Phoenix Suns guard Steve Nash, Toronto Raptors forward Chris Bosh and San Antonio Spurs guard/forward Manu Ginobili.

Additionally, a number of quality players who can opt out in 2009 may wait until 2010 including Kobe Bryant (player option), Cleveland Cavaliers centers Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Anderson Varejao, Detroit Pistons guard Rip Hamilton, Orlando Magic forward Hedo Turkoglu, Golden State Warriors forward Al Harrington, Raptors forward/center Jermaine O'Neal and Utah Jazz bigs Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur.

Other names include New York Knicks center Eddy Curry (player option), Sacramento Kings center Brad Miller, Hornets forward Peja Stojakovic (player option), Raptors forward Jason Kapono (player option), Indiana Pacers guard TJ Ford (player option), Mavericks forward Josh Howard (team option), Warriors guard/forward Stephen Jackson, Los Angeles Clippers center Marcus Camby and Cavaliers forward/center Ben Wallace. Mavericks center Erick Dampier has incentives to make his $13.1 million stick, but presently his money has no salary protection.

Even Phoenix Suns center Shaquille O'Neal is a free agent - although retirement may be an option.

Teams will be negotiating extensions next summer with the Draft Class of 2006 but potential 2010 restricted free agents (RFA's) include Portland Trail Blazers guard Brandon Roy and forward LaMarcus Aldridge, Houston Rockets forward Luis Scola, Memphis Grizzlies forward Rudy Gay, Celtics guard Rajon Rondo and Lakers point Jordan Farmar.

The list is overwhelming, perhaps the greatest free agent class since 1996 when Shaquille O'Neal left the Magic for the Lakers. It may shrink as some decisions are made in 2009 - be it player options or contract extensions - but many teams have targeted 2010 as their top priority.

Cap Teams:

It's difficult to anticipate the cap number two years down the road. The current figure is $58.68 million. For the purpose of this article, let's assume it goes up about $2.5 million a season to hit $64 million in the summer of 2010.

It's usually a very small list of teams with space (there were basically four in 2008) but the exact opposite is the case for 2010; nearly every single team in the league could be a player.

The few teams willing to spend now and take on long-term deals instead of shopping in 2010 may be able to find tremendous value for their expiring and two-year contracts.

A team like the Los Angeles Lakers would obviously like to lock in Kobe Bryant and will likely extend center Andrew Bynum well before 2010. Cap room may be a worst case scenario.

The same could be said for the Cleveland Cavaliers who will be able to not only offer LeBron James a long-term deal, but could have plenty of cap room to add on a star. In the short-term, the Cavs will have to decide if it's worthwhile to trade the expiring contract of Wally Szczerbiak for a player with years left on his deal - or preserve salary space in 2010.

The Miami HEAT don't want to lose Dwyane Wade and are in a similar position as the Cavaliers with room to both keep their star and add a major piece. Miami may be able to act a year earlier by spending in the summer of 2009 - although that money may go to forward Shawn Marion.

Where will the reigning World Champion Boston Celtics be in two summers? Should Paul Pierce leave $21.5 million on the table (taking advantage of an early termination option - ETO), he would join Ray Allen as a free agent. Boston would have below $25 million in salaries although Rajon Rondo may have an extension locked in before then. Even if Pierce chose not to opt out, the Celtics could still have enough to pursue a younger replacement for Allen (perhaps the return of Joe Johnson?).

It's difficult to tell this early what Boston's long-term plan is to try and build a dynasty. It may never include cap room, but it's certainly a possibility.

The Phoenix Suns may be a completely different franchise in two years. If Steve Nash moves on and Shaquille O'Neal retires, does Amare Stoudemire look to leave as well? If so, the Suns will have massive spending power to rebuild from scratch.

Should Dirk Nowitzki opt out and the Dallas Mavericks shed the non-guaranteed salaries of Josh Howard and Erick Dampier, they could be one of the biggest shoppers in the league. So too could the Houston Rockets, but at the cost of Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady.

The Toronto Raptors have a year or two with Jermaine O'Neal to decide if he has enough left to stick with the team long-term. Chris Bosh can opt out in 2010. Should he leave, Toronto would join the Mavericks with a deep well of cap space. Even if Bosh does re-sign, the Raptors could still be well positioned to spend.

The Utah Jazz are facing the prospect of losing three core members after this season should Okur, Boozer and Korver opt out. The team has $33 million committed to guard Deron Williams and forward Andrei Kirilenko in 2010. They could be a spender in either of the next two summers.

The San Antonio Spurs have managed their salaries well. Just about everyone expires in 2010 - arguably the team can have just two under contract (forward/center Tim Duncan and guard Tony Parker) with a ton of cap space. Even if they keep Manu Ginobili, the Spurs could have enough to add another well paid free agent.

The Sacramento Kings are set to have Brad Miller, forward Shareef Abdur-Rahim, forward/center Mikki Moore and seldom used forward Kenny Thomas drop off by 2010.

The Kings could end up adding a nice piece to a core of young players like guards Kevin Martin and Beno Udrih, big men Jason Thompson, Spencer Hawes and newly acquired forward Donte Green. Also in the mix are guard/forward John Salmons (opt out in 2010) and forward Francisco Garcia who would need to be re-signed after this coming season.

Both the Memphis Grizzlies and the Oklahoma City franchise should have plenty of money to spend - be it the summer of 2009 or 2010. The Minnesota Timberwolves will finally be under the cap by 2010.

The Golden State Warriors put major money into free agency this summer but by 2010 they may have some wiggle room.

The Charlotte Bobcats have to decide on the futures of guard Raymond Felton along with forwards Sean May and Adam Morrison. They could be a player in either 2009 or 2010 depending on how highly they value their recent lottery picks.

The Indiana Pacers may have some spending power but that might be dictated by a potential extension for forward Danny Granger. TJ Ford's 2010 opt out ($8.8 million) will also play a part in their salary structure.

The Atlanta Hawks have a pair of serious decisions to make next year as guard Mike Bibby's contract expires and forward Marvin Williams will be a restricted free agent.

Technically only a single Hawk is guaranteed in 2010 (forward Josh Smith at $11.6 million. Depending on team/player options, Atlanta could go into the summer with just $22.5 million in committed salaries - but how much of their theoretical cap room will go towards retaining their own (Joe Johnson, Bibby and Williams)?

The Portland Trail Blazers have a tremendous roster of young, talented pieces. They could end up with cap room in 2009 or 2010, depending on what they do with players like guard Steve Blake (non-guaranteed in 2009), forward Travis Outlaw (team option for 2009-10), guard/forward Martell Webster and forward/center Channing Frye (2009 RFA's). The Blazers also have to evaluate incoming forward Ike Diogu, also a 2009 RFA. Additionally center Joel Pryzbilla can opt out in 2010.

Where the Blazers run into trouble is keeping both Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge who are restricted in 2010. Portland may be better off spending in 2009 when both Roy and Aldridge are still on their rookie contracts.

It may be unlikely but if forward Darius Miles comes out of retirement, his $9 million salary for the 2009/10 season would get in the way of any cap space plans the Blazers might have. [Note: Miles just signed a non-guaranteed deal with the Celtics. If he plays in at least 10 games, he would go back on the Blazers payroll. Additionally, he will face a 10-game suspension for a drug violation (reportedly a weight loss drug) - so he'll have to stick with the Celtics for at least 20 games before becoming an issue for Portland].

The Chicago Bulls could make sure they have space. The Denver Nuggets might as well, although they've got to make a decision on guard Allen Iverson after this season. The Detroit Pistons have plenty of room, especially if they let forward/center Rasheed Wallace depart next summer. The question will be Rip Hamilton's long-term future.

The Los Angeles Clippers are well positioned to have major cap room to add to their core of guards Baron Davis and Eric Gordon, forward Al Thornton and center Chris Kaman. That's only $30.1 million locked in to those four alone - and plenty of room to shop in 2010.

The Philadelphia 76ers appear to be the rare team completely out of the running in 2010 with their recent signings of forwards Elton Brand and Andre Iguodala to major, long-term deals.

The Washington Wizards don't appear to be a major player. They might be able to pare down the roster some if both forward Darius Songaila and guard DeShawn Stevenson both decided to opt out but the Wizards probably won't be looking for cap space in 2010.

The Orlando Magic may have some room although that money might go to Hedo Turkoglu in 2009 (or 2010 if he doesn't use his ETO).

The Milwaukee Bucks won't have space if both Michael Redd and Richard Jefferson don't opt out. If they lose both, that's $33.5 million off the books - which opens up plenty of room to spend.

The New Orleans Hornets are in an almost identical position but with Peja Stojakovic and Tyson Chandler.

Some teams over the cap may try to trade away parts to get under. The New Jersey Nets have long been linked to LeBron James. While they already have space to try and lure James, should they trade away guard/forward Vince Carter by 2010 for an expiring contract - the Nets would be sitting on a mountain of cap space (yes a mixed metaphor - can you sit on space?).

The New York Knicks figure to have some cap space but they likely need more to shop aggressively. Forward Zach Randolph is rumored to be on the block (locked in until 2010). Eddy Curry can opt out of his final $11.3 million but he would need to revive his career before leaving that amount on the table. Guard Jamal Crawford has an ETO in 2009 and while that might help the Knicks get under the cap - Crawford would have to be bold enough to fore go $19.4 million (over two years) in guaranteed money.

Some teams will work to increase their cap space by holding off on extensions, signing players to short deals and trading away long-term parts.

Ultimately every team but the Sixers, Wizards and a handful of others who get their current stars to extend or take advantage of more immediate opportunities will be in the mix for what could be the biggest name free agent class in history.

So basically the gist of that article is that nobody really knows anything about anything until 2010 hits and just about anybody could end up anywhere. Guess I'll get some yard work done.

That is good to know. I like Lebron James regardless of what team he plays for. I really do not believe money is his first priority - it is his legacy. The money is important, no doubt, but that dimension of his career is already set. The one thing that remains undecided is whether or not he wins championships. So, based on this premise, I believe he will go to whatever team he believes has the best chance of ensuring his legacy. If it is the Cavs with an attractive roster, so be it.

If every team has someone how is going to opt out and other free agents leave, then where are those players going? Teams are going to lock up some of those players before 2010. They know that they do not have a realistic shot at LBJ or others. They will jump on pieces they need before then even though it looks as if they are waiting for 2010.

That's what the original article was claiming, that there will only be a couple teams that might still have the power to lure two stars.

Heck, perhaps the Cavaliers are going to jump on some of the free agent stars in the summer of 2009 and not wait for 2010. The one article claimed Kobe might opt out in 09, perhaps that is why Danny has been clearing space. Then coming back and locking up LBJ long term.

i think kobe said something recently about not going back to LA when he's able to opt out...

i know people try and put a lot of stock into what lebron says, about how one thing is important, or about how he wants to become a billionaire, but if you've followed lebron over the years, you know he changes his tune, i'm not huge on bill livingston, but he wrote an article about this a few months ago

the kid just says what the media wants to hear at the moment...

just like when lebron said he loved ohio and wanted to stay there, i didn't take that seriously, and then when he said he enjoyed new york and brooklyn, i didn't play that up either (even though espn sure did)

to be honest, lebron probably has no idea what he wants to do in 2010, he has no idea what the cavs will look like, and even if he did know what he wanted, that could easily change over the course of 2 years...

i just laugh when espn, or even some of the people on here, take everything he says as if it were true, you are playing right into his hands...

to be honest, i wouldn't be surprised if he didn't opt out, and gave the cavs one more year, just to make everything nuts...