DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Tomb of the Unknowns caught in battle (article)...

I will say this, support the government or not, the Tomb of the Unknowns is perhaps the most solemn and, well, holy place I have ever been to in my life. The majesty of the soldiers guarding it to the knowledge of what it represents brings me almost to tears just thinking about it. I agree with the article saying it is the most sacred place in this country.

Whatever they decide to do, I certainly hope it serves to honor those men and women who have fought for this country, lost their lives, and who are known "but to God."

link

ARLINGTON, Virginia (CNN) -- The Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington National Cemetery is at the center of combat between preservationists and cemetery officials.

Preservationists say a replica would also crack over time and that fixing the monument is the better option.

The giant marble sarcophagus marking the location of four unknown U.S. service members from World War I to Vietnam has been battling the elements since it opened to the public in 1932. More than 70 years later, it is showing the scars, with cracks encircling it.

On its most famous inscription -- "Here rests in honored glory an American soldier known but to God" -- a crack cuts diagonally across the words.

Those scars are at the center of a debate: Should the memorial be fixed or replaced with a replica?

"The overall appearance of the memorial is not what it should be and we know this is a problem," said John C. Metzler Jr., the superintendent of Arlington National Cemetery.

As the cracks worsen, cemetery officials say, the threat of a degraded monument will detract from the dignity and respect afforded to those buried at what many consider the nation's most sacred site. They would like an exact replica made with similar marble.

Historical preservationists say it should not be replaced and that the cracks should simply be fixed as needed.

"A replica is not the same thing as the original," said John Hildreth of the National Trust for Historic Preservation, a leading historical preservation organization.

Located high on a hill overlooking Washington on the Virginia side of the Potomac River, the Tomb of the Unknowns is diligently looked after by the U.S. military's ceremonial Old Guard 24 hours a day.

Cemetery officials estimate more than 4 million people visit the cemetery and the Tomb of the Unknowns every year, making it one of the most popular destinations in the Washington area.

Since the early 1960s, the marble walls that make up the main monument at the Tomb have been developing fissures from natural cracking, made worse by Washington's brutal quick freezes and thaws.

The cracks have been slowly growing each year, threatening the look and delicate carvings on the front of the structure rarely seen by the public.

The monument has undergone two repairs, one in 1975 and the last one in 1989, with grout used as filler. Since then, other significant cracks have appeared.

"The cracks continue to grow. And I can't predict what the weather is going to continue to do to the monument," Metzler said.

For years, Arlington National Cemetery, which falls under the control of the Department of the Army, has been looking to replace the 48-ton monument and its fault lines with one that is virtually identical.

Metzler says following the rules of the National Historic Preservation Act and locating unblemished marble that will hold up to the weather has slowed the replacement process.

The possibility of replacement -- which the cemetery said would not disturb the actual tombs encasing the remains -- has outraged preservationists. Hildreth's group, the Washington-based National Trust for Historic Preservation, and its allies successfully lobbied Congress to force the cemetery to examine all repair options.

"Cemetery officials heard our concerns and were not very receptive to changing their plans," Hildreth said. "If they were to replace the monument with the same marble material, it would eventually start cracking again."

Metzler and cemetery officials reported back to Congress this month and decided to continue to repair the cracks as needed -- but will still pursue replacing the monument entirely, if requirements to the National Historic Preservation Act can be met.

"For now, we will intermittently repair the monument with grouting process that should hold for several years at a time," Metzler told CNN.

The report said cemetery officials believe the "cracks cannot be repaired indefinitely without the monument acquiring a patched, worn and shabby appearance, which is the antithesis of its purpose and contrary to [Arlington National Cemetery's] mission of maintaining a dignified, fitting memorial to our country's fallen soldiers."

Metzler said it is impossible to say when or if the memorial would be replaced because it hinges on whether all of the criteria are met in the Preservation Act.

The National Trust contends that the cost of repairing it far outweighs the cost replacing the structure.

The cemetery's report to Congress lists a replacement and related costs could total $2.2 million, while the cost for a one-time repair would be about $65,000.
advertisement

Metzler's concerns are not just out of dignity and respect for those troops buried at the Tomb, but also for the tourists and other visitors that come to the monument.

"I worry that as the cracks worsen it will eventually take away from the visitor's experience," Metzler said.

I think they need to repair it, not replace it. Stone can last a very long time if properly cared for...ask the Egyptians

FYI...It's the Army that protects the tomb, not the Marines.

I say replace it with an exact replica... Its whats inside those caskets and what they mean to the country that matters. Not the marble surrounding them.

You can only repair things so many times before they become a far cry from their original.

A replacement might be in order. Better prepared, better installed, to better weather the elements. The monument is a symbol, it is not the Holy Grail, it is what it represents that is important, and if they swapped it out in the middle of the night, no on e would ever know the difference.

How many kids had the Liberty Bell come to your school when you were young, and they let you ring it. Did you know, or even care that it wasn't the real Liberty bell?

The Egyptians' stone is in an entirely different climate. One that doesn't have to deal with the efffects of water and repeated freezing and thawing of said water.
I think a lot of the remaining stone is also Granite and the bulk of what is gone is the outer casings which were limestone.

Add in that acid-rain still exists (another thing the Egyptians don't have to sweat), and that acid-rain can easily destroy marble & limestone (just look up it's effects on limestone & marble statues in Venice), and you have a recipe for failure.


As for the issue itself:

#1. Money should have no bearing on this one. $65k or $2.2M... easy call, spend whatever is needed, they're both a drop in the bucket. This should be determined by just doing the Right thing, not worrying about budgets.
#2. I think that the Right thing to do is to preserve the intent of the memorial, which is to have a solemn, honorable and as near eternal as man can create place for all those who have died for the United States of America, but are "known only to God".
#3. Considering #2, I don't think that preserving original stone with cheap re-grouting is the answer. I fully appreciate the sentiment, but I think it is misplaced. I think that replacing the stone with one that is created to look as the original used to and returning it to it's original beauty is the proper course. I also think that perhaps switching to polished granite and abandoning marble is the proper choice. Bring in a set of Color Guard representatives from each branch and have a "Changing of the Guard" Ceremony for the stones, perhaps keep the original stones in the tomb, or move them to the Smithsonian.

When I was twelve our class took a trip to DC and I was chosen to actually step on that holy ground a lay a wreath in memorial. I was at the top of the steps when one of the guards approached me to hand me the wreath and give me instructions. Of course when he approached in was in military fashion, strict ridgid. I assumed he would bark orders, get to the point and return. Instaed he came up and talked to me like an older brother, real nice, kind, and cool. Looking back you could see he was just another twenty some tear old kid doing his duty. But after I got the instructions I stepped down the stairs and walked down to the top of the tomb just before the carpet. Was handed the wreath, stepped on the carpet and layed it down. Added a salute (though i wasn't told i had to) turned and went back with my group. One of the greatest honors of my life.

I'm no expert on stone, so I wonder, could it be replaced with something that'll last significantly longer than marble? It seems to me that it is our place to honor the memory of these unknown individuals who gave their lives for their country. If marble is inherently faulty for the situation, then I believe we should not limit the option to just marble, but only IF we can do better.

Why does it have to last significantly longer? Marble is the most attractive option.. granite might last a little longer and would be a decent option... but why does it have to last longer? This one has lasted 50 years... we can't spend $2 million once every FIFTY YEARS to replace it? We spend more than that for a few miles of guardrail on I95....

Tough call. My gut says repair it. But the more I think about, if I were one of those soldiers, I think would want it replaced...

I was just there this summer, as most of you know, but I didn't get to see it in person... Just on tv in the family waiting room. I will say that either way they decide to go wouldn't change the meaning. It's overwhelming just thinking about, not sure if I could actually sit through the changing of the guard. Hopefully next fall when I go again, I'll get to try!

My answer is found in the pictures included with the article. I say if we can do better, than let's go for it. http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/27/tomb.unknowns/index.html

Quote:

---

I also think that perhaps switching to polished granite and abandoning marble is the proper choice. Bring in a set of Color Guard representatives from each branch and have a "Changing of the Guard" Ceremony for the stones, perhaps keep the original stones in the tomb, or move them to the Smithsonian.

---

That is an excellent idea! But, like DC said replace it with marble. That is what it is now and in Arlington it just fits. Plus with what we know now about how it weathers and cracks I am sure preventative measures can be fine tuned to deal with the elements.

j/c

I also like the idea of replacing...I can both arguments for keeping the replacement material marble or replacing with granite....However...another possibility may be to build a shelter around the tomb. similar to mausoleaums for past presidents and others. Of course this shuts them off from their brothers, but it does preserve their memorial and controls the climate it is in.

The only fault I see in your argument DC is that it will cost 2 million "now"...50 years down the line....who knows how much it will cost (although most likely still a paltry amount compared to other budgets discussed in DC)....and will we still even be able to get the same marble????....

The argument the preservationists seem to be bringing is that it wouldn't be the memorial if the marble is replaced...So they favor fixing the marble...But I don't buy that....The Marble has never been the memorial.....It has always been the men inside that has been the memorial...not the encasing. The encasing is meant to honor "them"...and you cannot do that if subsequent repairs eventually make it look shabby.

To be honest, the men that represent all unknowns from each of those wars are located in front of the memorial, not in it. In fact, the Vietnam War unknown was exhumed and ID'd before 2000 if i remember right. So the changing of the rock that has the inscriptions on it should be no big deal. Sure it should go into a museum, but it's supposed to be about the memory of all who have paid the highest price for the country and cannot be named. Their memory deserves more than another patch job.

The marble stone is just the window dressing for what the memorial actually means.

Replacing it isn't bad either. In regards to the weathering that is absolutely true, though I believe they have some coatings that can help prevent some of the damage. I guess from a history buff's perspective I hate to see what is there destroyed, but I can see you guy's point as well.

Quote:

---

To be honest, the men that represent all unknowns from each of those wars are located in front of the memorial, not in it.

---

Good Point....But I think my original point still holds that it is not the physical marble that we should fear to be in peril. it is the honor we do to the real memorial...which is as you state the memory of those unknowns....