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No, it's not time to panic.
There, feel better yet?  No? What, just can't take my word for it? *L*
Listen, let's not deal with optimism, pessimism, anything that involves Brown
colored glasses, Homers, or haters. Let's deal with reality. I'm sure some (or most) of this is covered in other threads, but to be honest, I'd rather just sum it all up in one instead of draggin' numerous threads up to the top. This way I can be bashed in one neat, tidy little bundled package 
First and foremost, the preseason hype was nice to hear, wasn't it? All that REALLY did was to confirm that the moves made by the organization were viewed favorably. That's the kind of affirmation that we all need to hear in order to believe we're moving in the right direction. HOWEVER, we also knew, deep down, that we weren't as good as our record last year, and that we could ultimately be a better team this year while simultaneously ending up with a worse record (that's assuming we really know football, but that's for another story).
So what's REALLY going on here? We can start with the defense....
We blew our wad on defensive linemen because we all knew our front 3 pretty much sucked. Rogers and Williams were players that we badly needed, as it will always start with stopping the run first. You don't stop the run, you essentially don't have a defense. I could go back and list where we ranked versus the run over the last decade, but that'd just make you sick, and I'm not here to do that To that end, so far, we're doing a much improved job of stopping the run. Mission accomplished. Unfortunately, while we've solved the first problem, we still don't have the players who know how to get to the QB. Forget about Peek getting hurt. He was a low-grade player at best. Willie Mac's days as a feared pass rusher are long over. Wimbley appears to have stalled in his hopes of becoming something more than a one-trick pony. Davis and Jackson? Neither are rushers. Both are Chase-and-tackle guys. Of course the problem is that we can't fix all our holes in one offseason. In the case of acquiring Rogers, we traded a talented starting corner with injury questions for a talented NT/DE with work-ethic questions. To this point, the 3rd round pick that we had to throw into the deal was worth it as Rogers is playing very well right now. Without a rush, our young corners are getting exposed. In the Pit game alone, I saw two instances where Wright and McDonald simply missed because of their inexperience. That will only come with time and coaching. We have to be patient (as hard as that is to do).
So on defense, our lack of a pass rush is killing us. The lack of rush is more damning than the inexperience of our corners. But the question you have to ask yourself is this: Did you honestly EXPECT to have a good pass rush from a group of 'backers named Peek, Wimbley, Davis, Jackson, and McGinnest? Nah, me neither.
So what about the offense? IMHO, there are two primary culprits here: Anderson and the coaching staff. Honorable mention goes out to the ultimate primodonna Edwards, but he'll get covered here in a sec as I lump him in with Anderson.......
No one player can be properly blamed for a team losing a game, but Anderson comes as close as one can when it comes to wearing the goat-horns in the Pit game. Both of his INT's were simply urine-poor decisions. When it's windy, fire the ball and let your receiver go after it. Don't try and touch the ball through the night, which is exactly what Anderson did on his first pic. The second pic at the end of the 2nd quarter was the Derek Anderson from college who never could read a defense. Now, to be fair, Anderson is a young guy who needed every single rep he could get in preseason. Obviously, he didn't get that, and the offense.....HIS OFFENSE ........isn't clicking. It's not near time to even think about benching him yet.
Time to talk about Edwards. It would help if he'd put down the mirror and start focusing on football  Right now, he's part of the problem. I've said it in the past and I believe it's still true: Edwards is a guy who MUST get in a rhythm in order to be the playmaker that we saw last year. When he's out of rhythm with the offense, he's a bum. Because he and Anderson didn't get to sync up before the season started, this is the end result. (I know deep down that Edwards won't finish his career in Cleveland, but that's for another thread, as that thought doesn't have any bearing on what's happening in the here and now).
Now to the coaches. My feelings regarding Crennel haven't been hidden. I don't believe he's "The One." The players love him and play hard for him, but IMHO he's a horrid game-day coach and I question whether he has enough moxy to mold the team. In watching the Pit game, it was clear that Anderson didn't run the offense. In fact, I saw several instances where Hank freakin' Fraley appeared to be running it! While Anderson is a young player, he's a veteran, and should have COMPLETE control of the offense by now. During the last game, it was Fraley signaling to huddle at the end of the 1st half, and Anderson was staring over at the sideline waiting for the coaches to tell him whether or not to call a T.O. He's the general on the field. It's up to him to lead the offense. That, my fellow Dawgs, is a huge problem.
Look, if Crennel gets the credit for 10-6 last year, then he gets the blame for not having the team ready right now. All the glory, all the blame. It can't be any other way. It's up to HIM to make sure Chud has the offense working. I can easily....EASILY.....excuse the problem of being out of sync because of injury, but there is no excuse for not even knowing who's running the offense.  I won't even bother talking about the stOOpid decision to kick that field goal in the 4th quarter last week. That bonehead move speaks for itself. I could go much deeper into examples from just the Pit game, but won't.....yet.
Two other things about the offense that I want to briefly touch on.
Receivers. As long as we're marching Steptoe, Cribbs, Sanders, Reggie Rucker and Dave Logan out there at WR, we're going to be limited on offense. That doesn't help Anderson either. Injuries are part of the game, so excuses only go so far, but that's a reality we have to face.
The O-line. We're an elite pass-blocking unit. I'm proud of'em! Unfortunately, the things that make our individuals really good also limit us when it comes to running the ball. Savage has assembled players that are finesse guys, not maulers. That versatility helps us pass-protect, but against bruising front-line defenses, we're going to struggle running the ball unless we can throw with great success to keep'em honest. In our case, one hand really does wash the other.
Look, the Browns just lost to two teams that many feel are the best in their respective conferences. It's not a stretch to say that the Cowboys and Steelers were favorites to reach the Super Bowl after week one (thanks to Tom Brady  ). We deserved to lose to the Cowboys, as they are clearly a superior team. However, the coaching staff and Derek Anderson cost us the Steelers game. It's not yet time to panic, but the grace period is over. Anderson MUST take control of the offense (and if that means slapping Fraley on the head and telling him to shut-up then so be it). Crennel MUST start calling a better game on Sunday, as well as making sure that his units are functioning properly. His days of learning on the job were over BEFORE last year started. He simply cannot continue to make the same mistakes that he's made even as recently as just a few days ago.
It's not time to panic, but the next few weeks will be very telling on just how far this coaching staff can take the team, because it's ultimately up to them to get Anderson and Edwards back on the same page. Just like last year, we'll win or die by our offense, as our defense continues to be a work-in-progress.
(Ok, enough rambling......just like the good old days  )
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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All Pro
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you have been missed, toad.
a quick look at who is 2-0 and who is 0-2 results for most people in a realilzation that the season isnt trashed.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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Wow I don't believe it but I think Toad nailed it.
Everybody needs to do better including the fans. Hell we were over matched against Dallas, and I agree we should have beatin Pitt, no question. had the offense just played average we get it done. RAC and the coaching staff did blow it, at least twice. Or should I say they didn't do what I would have done. I would have kicked the FG with only 8 seconds to go in the half. Put up points going into half time. It would have made the score 7-3, and helped build some MO for the 2nd half. Instead it deflated the team and the offense. Got to say this too though they did fight hard thru the entire game.
All in all though it truly isn't time to hit the panic button. I am somewhat shocked that there are so many people calling for RAC's head after 2 games. And after a 10-6 season. Got to crawl, then walk, then run, and we are at the just learning to walk stage, and we are going to fall sometimes.
Let me say this too. Where are all the people that were at the opening of camp that chanted Super Bowl, Super Bowl, I strongly suspect they are the ones that want RAC fired because the team isn't up to their fantasies..
JMHO
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Sneaking in under cover of darkness, eh?....... I have no reason to disagree with most of what you said. Now is not the time to panic. That, sadly, will be when we hit the MNF game against the Giants at 1-3. If we get our clocks cleaned by the G-men, again, we'll be 1-4. And if we are 1-4 you are correct in that most of that can and should be laid at the door of RAC and DA. Now it is possible that we hit the bye at 2-2. Baltimore may still be led by Joe "who?" Flacco. The only guy in the NFL that I might beat in a foot race. Yet the guy that rumbled something like 25 yards for a TD against the Bengals could still beat us if we play (and are coached) like we did against our first 2 opponents. Game 4 just lets me say, "Thank God for the Bengals" I have to agree on your analysis of Braylon. Although, I don't think he spends as much time looking in the mirror as you do I do think he needs to be in a certain flow during the games to be the BE we are looking and paying for. DA? Well, personally, I think you could bench him and the team would be instantly better off. I don't think that will happen until at least 3 more games of suckass play on his part. It may not even happen this season since that would be an admission by both Phil and Romeo that they are wrong. Something neither man is likely to admit this early. RAC.......same thing, really. If he were fired today I think the team would at least get fired up for a game or two. Something that we rarely have seen under the big man's reign. As I've said before, if the players love him so damn much why don't they play better? That is a mystery to me. Especially after watching the opener. We put up no fight and 10 meaningless points. The Eagles, with even less of a WR corp than we have, damn near hit 40. Of course, they can run the ball and have a pass rush, but I digress........ Nice to see you're back...............wait for it.................Especially after seeing your front.........
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I think why alot of fans paniced so quickly, is the way we lost...as you say...theres no control out there. It's like DA isn't the general, is RAC? what about Chud calling better plays?
There isn't a player or coach that stops the buc...those bad calls by Romeo threw a couple gallons on the fire....its not just RAC, but dang, Romeo....take control of this team.
Defensively...Willie, and Wimlbey are killing us.....Wright is awful at CB and we won't make it long with Mike Adams out there..
Offensivly....the time is ticking down for DA...yes we are injured...but as you said the guy is a vet now, not a rook...play like it! The signing of Stallworthlessness isn't looking good...I know Phil intended him to be our 4 th option behind BE, Joe, and KW2 but the guy isnt on the field....9 diff injuries....right before the dallas game..i dunno, get the wennie a bun!
We should got another WR and CB befroe the reg. season, that was a mistake, but they happen....
This team now is backed into a corner....its HAS to WIN, not be competitive, several games in a row. They have to beat a GOOD team or the same questions will keep coming. Not much is gonna go away if we smoke the Rats and Bengals..IMO...if we then go out and get beat by the Giants.
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Wow I don't believe it but I think Toad nailed it.
Sorry..but it's been nailed before..most of what he said has been said by some (who don't think Rac should be canned) whether it's been logical thoughts by some and even disdain by others.
I really don't think he said anything different ..
I can wager that what he has to say next will fall in line with some other choice comments I've heard.
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What he said, and what you, clem, and ddubia are not the same....you guys are wayyy off in one side of the ditch with pics of Romeo in your house and then theres peen and friends waiting to burn RAC at the stake.
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Legend
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Lot's of good points.
I do disagree with one theme...the panic theme. Being tired of a goofball and a under performing team and wanting it to change isn't panic. In some cases it is well thought out and a process that has been brought on by years if ineptitude.
RAC has been around a long time. This isn't some rising star coach who played the game, spent a few years under some guys wing and then got the head coach gig before he probably should have. We are talking about a guy who has spent decades on the sidelines of a football field as a coach. Managing a stinking game isn't that hard.
When you think about it, that is probably the first thing people learn by just watching the game. People like you and I may know nothing about reading a D, or designing a D or O, but by watching the game, the simple stuff like when to call a time out, when to go for it, when to kick, when to go for two....that's stuff your basic 15 year old fan can grasp with a degree of ability that is greater than this buffoon has shown over the last few years......but enough of that....
I agree about Anderson...I guess my only question is do you think that is his problem..actually leading the team or is it a symptom of the "system" put in place by the head coach?? Would Brady or any other QB have the same problem?
We just saw one high ranking coach dismissed amid reports there was friction between him and Romeo. Was it because Grantham simply wasn't a team player and had his sights on something else, or was it because he found it hard to work for a idiot??
I don't know...that's why I am asking.
Anyway....good to see you around.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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U know you're slowly starting to sound like someone who just rides the wind , whichever the way the majority want to be blown by it..
Try getting your own thoughts produced by using some logic..not others opinion.
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Well, look who hopped in. I can't argue with anything you've said but will add just a bit of to something you touched on regarding injuries and the preseason. The Browns got absolutely nothing done in the preseason due to injuries and players missing games and valuable practice time. To me that's the biggest reason for the ineptly slow start. You talked about getting into a rhythm. The time for that tune-up is the preseason and it just didn't happen. I hear all the cries of "injury is no excuse" and they're right. But in our case it's a reason; not an excuse. Injury is no excuse is meant to say that you should have quality depth behind those starters if you've been drafting well. Injury is no excuse is aimed at the GM. There's no excuse for blowing drafts and leaving your team void of quality starters and depth. Teams who have been drafting well for years (Pittsburgh, Eagles, etc) have plenty of depth due to those good drafts. If the Steelers lose a quality starter there's a quality backup who can step in, step up and they rarely miss a beat. Years of quality drafts will put you in that position. And if one team can do it then so can others. So injury is no excuse. You should have drafted well. But the Browns have not drafted well until recently. They have not had an accumulation of good drafts that can stand up to injuries. They have just in the past few years aquired some quality starters. As yet there is little to no depth at most positions. So when starters get hurt and miss practice time there is no one to step in and step up to help the team develop a rhythm and consistancy. It's a work in progress that's coming along nicely but we aren't there yet. Offensively, the QB, RG, LG, RB and, the only WR still standing from the top four spots on the depth chart, have all missed a ton of playing and practice time in the preseason. (Some are playing now but playing hurt and less effective). So the team goes into the regular season unprepared. And I don't mean unprepared as in the coaching staff didn't have them prepared. I mean unprepared as in none of them got to play in preseason games or practices. How do you build a rhythm and develop consistancy with that? Defensively, the RDE, ROLB, LOLB and both S's have all suffered injuries. Some are out, some have missed substantial playing and practice time and some are playing hurt. This is not what the majority of us had envisioned to start the season. Sure the coaching staff has the talant to win. More talent than we've had since our return. But through all the injuries; not getting anything done in the preseason was a prescription for a bad start. I am amazed at how many fans refuse to acknowledge that. I saw it coming like a freight train with the whisle blowing full blast. I told a friend the morning of the Dallas game not to be surprised if we lose 30-3. It wasn't far off. That doesn't make me a prediction genius. It just seemed so realisticly obvious that our team could not possibly be prepared to face the regular season and a 13-3 team with the unfortunate lack of preparation in the preseason. We could have beat the Steelers. Maybe should have beat the Steelers. Even with all our injuries and rust. We're closer than we imagine. How did we get to 0-2? That's how we got to 0-2. Time to panic? Hell no if you're looking at what is rather than what you wish it was. Who's to blame? No person is to blame. The blame goes to a training camp and an unfortunate preseason that, due to injuries , prevented the team from being prepared for the regular season. This may or may not be a playoff season for the Browns. But when the season is all said and done I believe they will make us proud once they've caught up with and passed the the lack of preparation they suffered. The unfortunate part is that it is the regular season games they need to use for the practice they missed in the preseason. That sucks but it's the reality of it. And to add insult to injury they face one of the best offenses in football, another one that always seems to find a way to win, and three of the best defenses in football all in the first three games . It's no time to panic. Everything will play out.
#gmstrong
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Sorry Dub..me , U , Clem, Diam and Tabber have pics of Rac in our homes..actually I carry one in my wallet and have replaced the the 5 family shots in my cube with Rac's mug shots.. So what U say has no place here 
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Quote:
Did you honestly EXPECT to have a good pass rush from a group of 'backers named Peek, Wimbley, Davis, Jackson, and McGinnest? Nah, me neither.
No, but I did expect it to improve with the aquisition of Shaun Rogers and Corey Williams. I have no problem with those two guys, especially Rogers who does his job really well. Williams gets a pass as a passrusher right now because he's picking up the system.
But this doesn't give a pass to Wimbley, DQ, Dra, and whoever else is playing. Our pass rush from the LBs is horrible, it should have improved as we now command a double team with Rogers and have a more forbidible defensive line.
Especially Wimbley. I figured he'd finally become effective. Obviously not, because if Alex Hall doesn't seem to pan out well, we're going to have to look for two LBs in the draft round 1 and 2 as well as cornerback depth somewhere in there. That makes our chances of drafting a replacement for Jamal bad, which was my true hope for this year's offseason.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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If everyday you lean alittle more toward s kicking RAC out the door, ya think anybody will notice once you've passed ballpeen in the fast lane towards axing RAC? Talking about whichever way the wind blows.... What toad is saying and what you've been are diff how? He actually holds players and coaches accountable for the goofy coaching and bad play, you've been blaming injuries and the fact we've played good teams...plus he actually called RAC out for his stupid call, you've been defending his bonehead decisions...not only that toad clearly states he's never been sold on RAC. What it boils down too is your opinion against mine, but of course yours is better.
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This teams lacks "it"..not 100% sure how to describe it...the Giants, Steelers, Eagles, Pats, and Broncos are teams that have something about them...
and you have the othe side...teams that don't...
Chargers, Cowboys, Bengals, Browns, Redskins....
There is an attitude there, leadership...DIRECTION on those teams with "it", they re-load talent well, they overcome injuries well, they win in different ways,theres a swagger there, confidence in the other players and coaches, the always play 60 minutes, there always intense....they always seem to get it done...somehow someway...
The other teams...ex: Cowboys...always seem to not it get it done....talent is there...Chargers...same thing....talent...but they don't get it done when to chips are down.
I dunno if its coaching or whatever, I dunno how to get "it" but watching the first 2 games...we don't have "it"...
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So where do the Colts fall in your line of teams with "it"? They were viewed as a team that did well in the regular season but choked and didn't have the "it" that it took to get over the hump in the playoffs... but with no knee-jerk reactions, they figured out how to get over the hump...
yebat' Putin
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If everyday you lean alittle more toward s kicking RAC out the door, ya think anybody will notice once you've passed ballpeen in the fast lane towards axing RAC?
What? Never mind... He actually holds players and coaches accountable So why aren't the rest of U?? Oh my..why I never would have thought that the PLAYERS might have something to do with it.. The logic continues to amaze me.. This is where selective comprehension and reading play a larger part in peoples brain power.. If U WOULD OPEN your freakin eyes and close thy mouth you would see where I've called out certain players in certain situations. The injury factor is a part ..the fact we played a superior team in the open is 90% why we got smoked ..but I guess that point is somewhat waaay over your head but I'm not surprised by that. And I mentioned that on the other forum I see no one cared to respond to that..so I'll bring it up again.. Did ya see how many points Dallas hung on Philly?? plus he actually called RAC out for his stupid call, you've been defending his bonehead decisions...not only that toad clearly states he's never been sold on RAC.
So what? Like thats something new he's spoken since 05..  He thinks it's stupid..I don't..whats so special about he thinks it stupid? Only person I see you and the bandwagoners want to hold accountable is Rac..so because Toad mentioned some other elements(which he always does..see he will give a basis and a more thorough argument)you immediately jumped on it because you couldn't even present anything else.. U haven't presented anything other than the Rac makes stupid decisions argument..
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The colts....that "it"...I dunno, but it happend on defense...it was a bad defense and a light went on, they won because of that defense....now how does a defense that sucks all year suddenly, turn around that quick with the same players?
Its not just "execution" as some want excuse away the none talent factors to the game of football!
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It's funny how all the rabid RAC defenders try to assume the position of the logical, rational, realists. The people who are upset with Romeo, myself included, have been pointing out things that he does that an NFL head coach should know better than to do for 3 years now. The fact that we're accused of going "whichever way the wind blows" is a joke. I promise that if we go into the bye at 2-2, I will not claim that Romeo is a good head coach. After that week, though, he has a chance to get on the right track by beating GOOD teams that we have the talent to beat. He's going to have to prove that he can get it done before I'm off the "bandwagon". I suppose I would have been accused of being on a "bandwagon" for wanting Butch Davis gone in the years leading up to his departure. My guess is that the same people who are defending Romeo did the same with Butch all the way to the end.
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Quote:
Oh my..why I never would have thought that the PLAYERS might have something to do with it..
The logic continues to amaze me..
This is where selective comprehension and reading play a larger part in peoples brain power..
Well, we have talent...some have proven it here, others their former teams but these players can play...if its just a matter of gettin a bunch a great talent why coaching?
What does a coach do Attack...please explainto me his role.....
Quote:
The injury factor is a part ..the fact we played a superior team in the open is 90% why we got smoked ..but I guess that point is somewhat waaay over your head but I'm not surprised by that.
And I mentioned that on the other forum I see no one cared to respond to that..so I'll bring it up again..
Did ya see how many points Dallas hung on Philly??
SO its ok....to lose if the other team has alittle better talent...i've heard that in pressers way too much lately..."cry...cry....cry..."they were better than us". If we have that approach, it will be another 1000 years before we will the lambardi....hey...ya know....I bet thats what the Giants were thinking going into the superbowl! 
Quote:
Only person I see you and the bandwagoners want to hold accountable is Rac..so because Toad mentioned some other elements(which he always does..see he will give a basis and a more thorough argument)you immediately jumped on it because you couldn't even present anything else..
U haven't presented anything other than the Rac makes stupid decisions argument..
Yeah, what kinda lame arugment...the HEAD coach...top dawg(excuse the pun)  ....makes stupid decision in several areas....NO BIGGIE!
Nope, I've said as have other, that Chud wasnt great, DA hasnt played well, neither has Jamal.
The buc has to stop somewhere....but thats ok....lets continue to do what hasnt worked and hope that if we keep doing it long enough....
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It's funny how all the rabid RAC defenders try to assume the position of the logical, rational, realists Rabid..I doubt if you really understand the concept..all you need to do is look at the mentality of those who want him gone.. Seems very few want to actually THINK and see where the blame pans out to . Yeah I try to think things out..try it for once. I suppose I would have been accused of being on a "bandwagon" for wanting Butch Davis gone in the years leading up to his departure. My guess is that the same people who are defending Romeo did the same with Butch all the way to the end. I guess if you use reasoning like that ..I don't even want to touch that.
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I'd say "rabid" is an accurate description, considering you don't seem to hold him accountable for anything that happens on the field or ever admit that he made a stupid in-game decision.
And what's wrong with the Butch comparison? He had a 9-7 season, and was on the hot seat the following year. Romeo had a 10-6 season, and should be on the hot seat this year if things don't improve quickly.
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Dawg Talker
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Hey 'Toad, good to hear from you. Good read overall and I agree with most of what you said (although you're still too harsh on Braylon, even though he's been awful  ) except one thing - it IS time to panic. Since playoffs expanded to 12 teams in 1990, there have only been 19 teams to make the playoffs after starting 0-2 so, on average, one 0-2 team will make it this year. The Chargers, Vikings, Jaguars, Seahawks etc. are all 0-2 and fighting to be that one team. IMO, the one and only way we're going to make the playoffs this year is by winning the division. To that note, the Steelers have a 2 game head start already and a lead in the tiebreaker. Not only that, but to even put ourselves back into contention, we need to instantly turn things around. Given the injuries, bad performance of players that much was placed in (DA, Lewis, Braylon for starters) and boneheaded coaching, what exactly leads you to believe that is going to happen? This is the year we were supposed to make our big move and instead looking at an exact mirror of 2002, where a decent team overachieved against a crappy schedule, went into the next season with raised expectations and laid a giant egg. Starting out 0-2 has us right on that path. This team has been revealed as fool's gold by two playoff caliber teams. DA looks like the DA I thought he was from the beginning, Lewis looks old again, Braylon has been awful, our line can't run block, our team can't pressure the QB and our secondary can't cover. We're one loss next week away from reducing our odds to 5 teams since the Super Bowl era to make the playoffs after starting 0-3. It IS time to panic.
We're... we're good?
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Joined: Sep 2006
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2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 259 |
NRTY
I honestly think that noone realized how much Joe J means to this offense.
If a big catch needed to be made it was JJ or Winslow that made it.
Not to mention the leadership that he brought to the table.
They can now double the prima donna and not be that concerned with anyone other than Winslow.
Hopefully when Stallworth gets back, if he does this year, and doesn't get a severe hangnail that might change a little.
No one person or player is to blame for what has happened so far.
If things don't get better in the next two games though, I am afraid the finger pointing from the past will REALLY start and the season will be completely lost even though I feel the talent level on the team is way better than last year.
We still need a STUD outside linebacker that can rush the passer and a STUD inside linebacker that will step up and fill the hole.
The corners are inexperienced, but talented, just need time to learn.
I also really like Pool at SS.
Just my humble opinions though as a Browns fan.
Hope springs eternal in the heart of a true Browns fan. GO BROWNS!!!!!
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Legend
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Legend
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Just deal with it.....you are going to be painted a hater, a person who panics..a knee jerker...
I know I am not any of those things but I sure as heck want romeo gone. Wanted him gone a few years ago.
Last year I didn't say anything about the guy because we had some results...as long as the results are there I can tolerate the guy...we start losing games in large part because of the things he does on the sideline, time for him to go.
The only person who will ever convince me that Romeo is a good NFL head coach is Romeo himself, and that will be by being good on the field. I don't care if players like him. I don't care if some fans like him.
In my estimation, he has 14 games left this season to get that done.
I am not holding my breath.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Hall of Famer
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As far as U go..I'm gonna give you a lesson..
As HC you either call the plays yourself (putting more emphasis on the OC and DC being more involved in technique and system during the week) or you have the OC or DC calling for one side while you call the other or you let BOTH call their own plays. This means the HC is much more instrumental in the prep and is focusing on a GAME PLAN, but not neccassarily individual plays.
Individual plays come from the OC..
Did I go too fast?
U and a whole lot of posters NEED TO KNOW that..
Individual plays come from the coordinator ..they draw up the plays.
Rac should have Chud calling the O.
Roac should allow Tucker to call the D (to get experience). However, when in a situation Rac should give more specific suggestions.
No not suggestions but corrections..
If certain plays are kiiling the defense then get Mels head on cue..What do you need to do Mel??
Mel should (1) register that he's been calling the plays, so it's obvious his HC thinks he's doing something wrong(or the players are screwing up or both ) and will step in if needed, (2) respond quickly with the next play and a reason why. This gives Mel a chance to right it, or at least get on the same page as the HC.
Rac should already know the answer (D is his thing) and immediately respond by (A) calling his own play to stop the back sliding, and after calling it in explain/teach his DC why or (B) agree with his DC and let him call the play in and continue on.
Now, on O, once Chud botched up all the extra time to get plays/info into Anderson, Romeo should have taken complete control RIGHT THEN, but only for the rest of the half.
FIRST THING would have been to in Anderson's ear with "Not open, toss it out.
"GET RID OF THE BALL..DON'T CREATE A TURNOVER!"
We'll take 3. Don't force, get rid of it in 5 seconds or less". I think you can say all that over the Mic in the time they give you.
However, guys don't learn if you don't give them the chance to make the plays. In the beginning you let Chud bumble and learn, but you MUST correct the action by TEACHING him how to handle the situation after the fact.
In a MUST WIN sort of game, or really any Division game with meaning, you stop it RIGHT THEN and TAKE CONTROL.
This is where I see Rac's greatest failing, in coaching his coaches. Of course, he may have to take time to see these things to learn what they know and are capable of.
Just shouldn't do that in a divisional game that sets the tone early. He needs to do a few things DURING THE WEEK that show up on GAME DAY.
He needs to get their heads out of their butts when things are happening..
I agree with Eo that Chud goes away from plays that are working..if I'm the HC I get in his ear about that..MAKE the other team STOP what you're doing.
Those that say the problem at the end of the 1st half of the Pitt game are Romeo's fault are mistaken.
DA made a crucial mistake, and Chud failed.
On GAME DAY, that is where the blame lies. They were in the moment, and didn't produce.
Where Romeo failed is in NOT HAVING CHUD READY, and not taking control when Chud lost it.
The reality is Chud did lose it..he boggled the play calling..
However Chud went through a whole season of calling plays so this sort of thing ISN'T freaking new to him..
This is more of a season type failing than an individual game. If it gets glossed over and Chud makes a mess up like that again, then it falls MORE on Rac for not fixing it and teaching his OC.
If you give them the power, you need to teach them how to use it. Also, Rac should be with the position coaches daily teaching them everything he knows.
Now my other thing is the players..are they capable of EXECUTING what they're taught?
I'm not seeing the awareness that I should be seeing..
See how simple that is..probably lost you..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 09/18/08 10:59 AM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Hey Toad,, welcome back I'm not in a panic, I'm not for dumping RAC, I'm not for replacing DA with Brady, I'm not concerned about the pass rush. As for the reasons I feel the way I do,, does it matter? if you all disagree with me then so be it. I doesn't matter since we all have opinions and we can't all be right.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The question on the subject line is: How'd we get to 0-2?
The answer is: Injuries. A good part of our varsity is in the hospital. Our injuries happened early in the preseason. It's difficult to become a team when the players are changing on a daily basis.
I'm not a RAC fan, but it's hard to judge the man's work when his team is talking to the doctors.
I'm looking at the injury report at clevelandbrowns.com and yanno.. it's pretty stunning how many players have problems. If thy varsity is in the hospital thou shalt not win thy games.
We are starting to get some players back.. and I have to think that in 2 games we should be 2 - 2.. lets see what happens then.. if we are 0 - 4.. I have to think RAC is a goner.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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1st String
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1st String
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Quote:
We just saw one high ranking coach dismissed amid reports there was friction between him and Romeo. Was it because Grantham simply wasn't a team player and had his sights on something else, or was it because he found it hard to work for a idiot??
I'm not exactly happy with Crennel over the past 2 games, but the reports of the Grantham friction was with more than Romeo. Many of the players didn't like him as well and many of the vets questioned his decision-making.
So I don't think it would be fair to try to indicate that Grantham's departure has somehow rendered the team hopeless, and this is somehow solely the fault of Crennel -- and if Grantham had stayed, we'd suddenly be a great team, have no injuries the entire year, and be 2-0 at this point.
The defense did suck under Grantham, too.
**Insert clever signature here attributed to some historical figure that sounds interesting but has been taken completely out of context.
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Legend
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Quote:
The answer is: Injuries. A good part of our varsity is in the hospital
Not that my opinion matters really, but for sure, injuries played a part in where we stand right now. But so did some poor performances by BE in the first game,, less than stellar peformances by the O in the second game.. (I'm convinced that if our O had come to play last sunday, we'd have won because we held them to 10 points)
It's also partially some bad calls by the coaching staff.. (actually, for me, it's one in particular)
But as I stated, I'm not at all in panic mode.. we are getting guys back off injury, and I think the other problems are correctable... we'll see I guess.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
The defense did suck under Grantham, too.
I agree and didn't mean to imply Grantham wasn't culpable in some way....be it a little, or a lot.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Hall of Famer
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I'm not in a Panic mode : I expected a whole lot less this season than most . We just don't have the talent ( opinion ) yet .. I think Opie is starting to get a better crasp on his job ( he was a rookie , remember ) .. I have never thought that RAC was the coach to take us to the big game ( ok as a fill in ) .. When Phil didn't make a move to trade DA. in the off season and start the BQ. years I kinda was ready to sell the farm. We need a couple of really good drafts now to make another move up the latter. We are in bad shape at LB'er # 1 , then DB , RB , WR .. Like Toad remarked , BE. just might be with another team down the road a bit . Interesting to see if Bell and Rucker can get on the field this season If figured 7-9 with luck  next two weeks will provide valuable intel
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Legend
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thats an easy one bro .... the other teams scored more points than us in the first two games ....  it actually is easy ... 1. Injuries .. as Saint pointed out ... hard to win with guys like Jones and Donte down when there replacements are guys that I like alot but are lacking in the talent department .. add to that Cribbs missing the 1st game and being clearly not even remetoly close to 100% for the Pitt game ... (quite frankly other than RAC not knowing when to call TO's at the end of the game to me this is BY FAR HIS BIGGEST MISTAKE this year so far .. NO WAY Cribbs should have been allowed to play .. he couldn't even make a slight change of direction on Sunday night .. DUMB DUMB DUMB) ... 1a. We played the best O in football in Dallas ... and a real good D in Pitt where we need to pass alot to have a chance .. well the weather hurt us bigtime in that ... 2. Were not playing Miami, St. Louis, Seattle or SF this year ... the schedule is not as favorable as it was last year and were still a YOUNG GROWING team ... and thanks for bringing up the end of the 1st half debacle and DA not calling the TO .. your QB has to in that situation ..he has to have enough brains to know what to do .... I didn't want to bring it up cause i am a hater even though I been going around defending DA for the last two weeks ...  and due to the lack of football intelligence on the board no one else brought it up ... its two games and as u can tell the football intelligence level has not improved one bit ...  I hope all is well ..
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Dealing in "what if's". Things would look much different "if" we would have won the Pittsburgh game.
Your points on how we lost that game game are right on target.
Hypothically, let me ask this: Do you think we would have lost the Steeler game with Belichick as head coach?
I think not.
As important as that game was Savage and Lerner have critical decisions to make at seasons end. One on Anderson, another on Crennel, are they long term investments?
PS: Good to hear from you again.
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Legend
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I'm not feeling panic. I'm not sure why, because we haven't played particularly well and we do have some key injuries. I still feel like the offense will get into a groove, I think they are suffering from the lack of playing time in preseason. I'm still in no way sold on Anderson, but I think things will improve. The defense has actually surprised and pleased me with some of the things I've seen. I still think we can win about 9 of these things this year.
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Legend
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Reality...that easy.
Cowboys n Steelers - apples to apples when we faced them, even with home field advantage. They were the better team. You have to look at overall talent, experience and health. We lost to both.
The season evolves and changes...week by week we will be facing better teams or worse.
The better teams we have to be near perfect...or need them to play way under their capabilities...one way or the other to garnish a win.
The teams worse than us. We must play up to our capabilities and force them out of perfection!...one way or the other to garnish a win.
0-2 I don't think we will see any teams as fresh and on the top of their games as we did these last two. In the mean time we will hopefully get healthier or better deal with playing the depth that we must.
There is a lot of football left. We still have a very difficult schedule.
Things change as the season moves along. We dug a hole plenty of time to climb out.
Can we and will we are 2 different things. One I know of 100% the other has to be experienced.
But thats the reality of it all.
And just a for warning. Anyone considering this as Unreal and Brown n orange glasses. Prove anything that I stated wrong. I have an open mind. But don't just throw it away as a none opinion with the Optimism effect. In other words...don't be afraid...debate me
JMHGauntlet
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I don't disagree....there is nothing we can't overcome at this point....but we need to stop throwing dirt out of the hole and start putting it back in... And to put it your way...that isn't mud covered glasses speaking...
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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I agree with ya....this team has to play better than just going though the motions because the talent we are facing is equal....I wish we looked alittle more hungry.
Last year, being at the stadium for the Bengals game, that was a hungry team....they played great the rest of the season...but that day every guy on that WANTED to win, they played their hearts out...now im realistic here and kno every goes up and down, but id like to see more of that from this team.
I want everyone to play as hard as Shaun Rodgers did sunday night...you could tell man, he wanted it...bad.
We're gonna have to play so dang near perfect ball to win 9 out of our last 14....like you said....can it happen.....sure plenty of ability to do so...will it....
Prove it...
Good post EO...always like reading....
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Quote:
What he said, and what you, clem, and ddubia are not the same....you guys are wayyy off in one side of the ditch with pics of Romeo in your house and then theres peen and friends waiting to burn RAC at the stake.
Now, ya see, Z... this is why I've rarely responded to you this week. You've for some reson branded me as a "RAC apologist" with blinders on... and now you have me building shrines to him in my media room- simply because I've offered a differing opinion.
At no time did I ever say that RAC was without faults... and you haven't seen me say that you have been wrong in your assessments of him, now have you? Just because I haven't pointed out every single one of his decisions that I've disagreed with, doesn't mean that I'm blind to the dude's imprefections. What's the point of me joining the chorus about his mistakes, when there are already plenty of Dawgs howling in unison about them already?
I've simply pointed out that this team has lots to fix that go well beyond the shortcomings of the HC. I don't recall if you ever said "fire him now," so I haven't really been accusing you of that in any way, either. I've made a couple of general comments regarding knee-jerkers, and you seem to have taken it personally. Read my posts again. You won't find a single one wherein I've pointed you out. If you aren't really a knee-jerker, then my comments don't apply to you.
My posts about the HC have been an attempt to bring another perspective to the dialogue in here- nothing more, nothing less.
If you have a personal beef with some posters on this board, fine... but please leave me out of your "lump'em all together" group, mkay?
Thanks in advance.
Good day to you.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Dawg Talker
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Well I apologize...Clem...I agree with ya, we have holes...we differ In, that I feel the coaching mishaps are the bigger issue right now...just the overall direction of the team, attitude...etc. No, I dont want RAC fired, what good can come from a mid-season firing? Nothing, theres lots people who need to realize that, but yeah I apologize for lumping you with the RAC apologists.
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I want to comment on the Panic thing you brought up because we're in lock step.
It's been 50 games. There is no such thing as a rush to judgment after 50 games.
Let me equate it to something I know well: SALES
It a high profile position in any company as everyone in the company knows how you're doing. It's a results oriented position. There's a "scoreboard". All the excuses in the world don't matter if there's no money coming into the company. The company dies. Almost all companies fold because of revenue. Happens all the time.
Most sales people are measured monthly: 12 times a year. A Head Coach gets measured 16 times a year. A sales person is not supposed to do an average job. He's expected to do a good job. A Head Coach is also not supposed to be average. He's expected to be good.
To use sales terminology, let's give the Head Coach a "quota" of 10 wins a year. If you're not hitting your quota in sales you are fired.
So far Romeo is:
Year 1: 60% to plan
Year 2: 40% to plan (and this is the point where the average sales person is fired)
Year 3: 100% to plan
Year 4: 0-2, 14 weeks left to win 10 games. It's uphill from here.
Overall: 20-30
I equated this to sales but you can equate it to anything you like. If you have 16 chances a year to prove yourself. And you've had more than 3 years and 50 chances and...you're not proving yourself. Then it's time to move on.
Are there examples in NFL coaching where a coach rises like a phoenix from the ashes of a 20-30 record or worse to prove that staying with that coach was a good idea? And I mean in the same city, without firing the guy? I'd be curious to know.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum How'd we get to 0-2? Time to
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