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BE definitely has some legit drops but I think that most of that is mental, meaning that if the QB is more consistent then so is BE for example the Giants game.
I think BE was ready that night because he was in the national spotlight, hightened by the fact that the opponent had (has) a very similar receiver in Plexico Burress. Kind of a head-head-battle, so to speak.
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Playcalling ain't the thing with Anderson...That's a different animal regardless of who's under center...
I'm isolating things I see are problems..
Alot of u guys can ... and moan all day long about Edwards drops...THAT AIN'T THE PROBLEM...
U mean that's not the MAIN problem..but it is a problem and he doesn't get a free pass from me .
He's had way too many drops for having all that talent.
ANderson has had PLENTY of time to sit in the pocket over the last 4 weeks...The OL is playing solid again...THE DUDE CAN'T HIT THE BROAD FRICKEN SIDE OF ANYTHING...
U can pick out one play here and one there...The name of the game as a QB in the NFL is ACCURACY...And he ain't got it...PERIOD...
U ought to know I have beat that horse since last training camp.. and all THROUGH the entire season..no argument there...
Right now there are some other things that can be shored up and corrected..
But the ONLY way to improve the QB situation is to install a new QB..because DA will not improve enough to lead the offense effectively....
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Toad I won't comment about those other QB's because quite frankly I don't watch enough of their games to tell you whether or not they make their teams better. I can only comment on Favre because I've watched him his whole career. (until this season because I really don't care about the JETS)
When the packers won the Super Bowl Favre's RB was Edgar Bennett. WR were Don Beebe and a young Antonio Freeman (Who dropped as many balls as Edwards) and Mark Chumura. He also had a rookie LT and a young o-line. Am I supposed to believe that he had a QB rating that year of 95.8 because of the great players around him?
Yes I'm only using his super bowl season but you used him as an example of a guy who didn't make others better. It was a bad example. He was an older QB who needed his team mates more a couple of years ago when they were rebuilding but in his prime he never really had a great supporting cast. Just like guys like Dan Marino who never had a great supporting cast.
I'm not trying to compare DA to those players (you did that) What I am asking is since you seem to be one defending the guy, Is it possible that the players around him are playing bad because he is bad. Maybe Edwards loses interest because even if he runs the right route and plays his best football he doesn't have confidence DA can get him the ball. I know it doesn't' make it right but it is a possibility.
I think it's a chicken or the egg kind of thing. Are the receivers playing bad Football because they have no confidence in the QB or is the QB struggling because of the WR.
I just don't think DA is the kind of player that can make others around him better. No there aren't a lot of guys in the league like that but most don't need everything to be perfect in order to succeed. DA does.
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U mean that's not the MAIN problem..but it is a problem and he doesn't get a free pass from me .
The problem is, this isn't politics.
You see, we have a thread about the QB "hot seat". Yet many, not saying you, because it most certainly is not you......
But some who have turned a thread about the accountability of DA, into a "let's blame BE" thread.
And no, BE doesn't get a free pass from me either.
But still, nobody will seriously address one common fact....
When DA came out looking good against the Giants, it elivated the play of BE and his other targets.
When DA looked horid coming out against the Redskins, the players, especialy the targets around him looked far less spectacular.
That's what we all saw, yet many seem in denial of that.
So until we get a QB who can be relativly consistant, I don't believe any of us know just how productive this passing game can be.
Funny how last year when DA was lighting it up against sub par oponents, it seemed everyone liked the play of BE. Now that DA is stinking up the joint, BE is a bumb?
Funny how basic math escapes some.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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But still, nobody will seriously address one common fact....
When DA came out looking good against the Giants, it elivated the play of BE and his other targets.
I'll address directly..
I agree ....QB's can elevate the play of others by being smart, making quick decisions and being a good passer.kinda shrunk it down but U get it.
My only counterpoint is that the rest of the guys have to BE good even if he isn't..if they have the talent ....
Edwards and Winslow have that talent..so even if DA is being DA, when they're thrown a pass( one that doesn't make them become like Mr.Fantasic..sttttretch) thats in their hands -they catch it.
The rest I agree with you .
DA doesn't elevate their play unless he's on.
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BE has dropped far too many balls.. that's a given, but.. Quote:
so even if DA is being DA, when they're thrown a pass( one that doesn't make them become like Mr.Fantasic..sttttretch) thats in their hands -they catch it.
Everybody drops a pass now and then... it's unfair to the receiving corps to say that DA is allowed to throw the ball all over the farm but the one time he hits you in the hands, YOU HAVE TO CATCH EVERY ONE...
The drops are magnified by DA's inaccuracy. Even in games where we look good, we have a couple drops but they are overcome by good plays.. When DA is off, so many of his passes are uncatchable that when he finally does throw a strike and it's dropped.. well that just looks horrible on the receiver...
yebat' Putin
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The drops are magnified by DA's inaccuracy.
BIG time,....!!
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it's unfair to the receiving corps to say that DA is allowed to throw the ball all over the farm but the one time he hits you in the hands, YOU HAVE TO CATCH EVERY ONE...
Uh..they aren't getting paid to play and have a curve like that..c'on lets not even go that route.
Thats weak..you're giving Mr.Ed a excuse..saying well if DA isn't accurate he shouldn't be expected to catch good passes..U know how that sounds?
I hammered DA last year..and have not been on any bandwagon with him.
He's inconsistant..and I've been consistant over the years hammering WR's who don't catch passes that they should.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/22/08 11:08 AM.
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QB's can elevate the play of others by being smart, making quick decisions and being a good passer.kinda shrunk it down but U get it.
So let me get this straight, or at least try..............
Did you or did you not see BE's game "elevated" during the Giants game when DA played well?
Did you or did you not see BE's play decline with the poor play of DA against the Skins?
Based on what you did or didn't percieve from that, would you say that BE "stands a good chance" of more performances like the Giants game with a more consistant QB in the pocket?
Your counterpoint is a valid one as I've said. BE is responsible for BE. It is his job to catch the ball. There is no doubt about that. But wouldn't you find it hard to keep your head in the game with somebody in the pocket that consistantly leaves you hung out to dry and is innacurate as hell?
I think my grandpa said it best..............
It's hard to soar like an Eagle when your leader is a turkey.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Based on what you did or didn't percieve from that, would you say that BE "stands a good chance" of more performances like the Giants game with a more consistant QB in the pocket?
Sometimes U and others tend to forgot whats been said..I called DA out for leaving his WR's out to take tremendous hits last year and even on some of the so-called accurate passes they really weren't clean.. He can't EVEN throw a dumpoff to the backs CLEANLY.. Whats more to say about that? My issue is that U bring in a QB who is more accurate is fine..BUT if you expect the drops from Edwards to suddenly vanish , it won't happen.. The wild throws and the cannon balls intended for the pavement will go away.. He did had a good game..and DA was on..but go back to DE since he came into the league..still drops passes at critical times..go back to his days at Michigan..known for dropping passes. This is so funny.. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/players/59886.html POSITIVES: Big, physical receiver who breaks games wide open or controls them from the get-go. Quick releasing off the line, boxes out opponents with his frame and easily makes receptions in traffic. Hmmm..EASILY makes recs in traffic..I think the word consistant should apply here. NEGATIVES: Not always mentally on top of his game, loses focus or takes his eye off the ball. Must be more cognizant of becoming the hot receiver in blitz situations.
Gee..is that not him??? A lack of concentration has always been with him..regardless of the QB.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/22/08 11:40 AM.
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Thanks, Dong.
"Dong, where is my automobile?"
(that ring any bells, or am I just being corny again? )
Nah, ur just being old.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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'Toad... my whole problem with your argument is that you still excuse Anderson's performance by saying that "he can't do it by himself" and that he needs the players around him to be firing on all cylinders in order to play well. That is NOT the kind of quarterback that I want for my franchise. Almost anyone can be that quarterback. Heck, even Anderson isn't that good when his weapons ARE playing well.
Take last year as a better example.
DA had a Pro Bowl wide receiver, Pro Bowl tight end, solid possession receiver, 1300 yard rusher, Pro Bowl alternate fullback, Pro Bowl kick returner giving him field position, Pro Bowl left tackle, Pro Bowl alternate left guard and an offensive line overall that allowed him to be sacked less than once per game.
I don't know about you, but that's just about as good as it gets in this league. With all those weapons and all that protection, DA put up a whopping 56.5 completion percentage and a 82.5 quarterback rating, which was actually BELOW AVERAGE last year (83.5). If you're a below average quarterback with pretty much every offensive player playing well, why on earth would anyone give you $8M and an uncontested starting job?
Yet, here we are and without all our weapons playing well this time around, DA is the worst starting quarterback in the league that's played all his team's games this year. I don't want to wait for everyone to get back to Pro Bowl level so that DA can become an average quarterback again. I want him on the pine NOW and out the door the second the off-season begins.
No excuses. DA is NOT a consistently good quarterback and the sooner we can move forward with a guy who might possibly be able to "do it all himself" and be worth at least a fraction of a $8M salary, the better.
We're... we're good?
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DA had a Pro Bowl wide receiver, Pro Bowl tight end, solid possession receiver, 1300 yard rusher, Pro Bowl alternate fullback, Pro Bowl kick returner giving him field position, Pro Bowl left tackle, Pro Bowl alternate left guard and an offensive line overall that allowed him to be sacked less than once per game.
I don't know about you, but that's just about as good as it gets in this league. With all those weapons and all that protection, DA put up a whopping 56.5 completion percentage and a 82.5 quarterback rating, which was actually BELOW AVERAGE last year (83.5).
...and you left out the weak schedule. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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spectre, i don't understand how you and so many others on this board feel that DA is a finished product. sure he's had a few years in the league but with one full season starting, how is his book complete at the age of 25? people said he couldn't get more accurate in the offseason. yet he did. people said he stared down his receivers but he's improved on that this year. people said all last year that he couldn't dump off the ball, yet he's doing it better this year. sure, if he was 29 and you list all the pro bowl components, maybe we should look at other qbs. the problem with your argument is that these pro bowl components were not components BEFORE DA took over. DA had a role in putting up the yardage/scores as well. further, to say that those pro bowl components are playing like pro bowl components at this moment would be laughable.
further, no one seems to think the drops are significant. wr's drop balls and it's unreasonable to think they'll catch every single ball. that's fair but no one mentions the mental aspact of the qb play. we know DA can get hot quickly so it's the job of everyone on offense as well as the offensive coordinator to help him do so. help him string along a couple receptions and he'll light it up for you...but what if all of his receivers are dropping balls? to who is he going to turn in order to get into rythmn? that's been the problem. people cite the numbers and how terrible DA has been but it's not like he had stallworth, edwards, and winslow at the height of their games in the first three games either.
do you really believe that putting peyton manning in for our first three games would elevate the game of a player like syndric steptoe?
i don't think DA is perfect but i do agree with RAC that he provides the best chance to win. further, i disagree with most posters who think that quinn has the higher ceiling. on physical ability, DA has a higher ceiling but he's closer to his ceiling than quinn is. DA showed that on MNF with the whole nation watching. just because he needs a wr to catch a ball doesn't take away from his ability.
you can also mark my words, if/when quinn becomes our starting qb, a year from that day, people will be complaining that quinn needs to take more throws down field and people will be VERY agitated from constantly hearing from quinn that he "takes what the defense gives him." we already heard too much of that during the preseason and it'll get magnified when he's a starter.
there's a reason why winslow said that quinn'll play and BE said that DA is the guy. if quinn is in, winslow would get 7-10 balls a game, with DA in, BE would see the majority of the targets. THAT'S the politics part of it all in the locker room and probably why DA is still starting.
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Yes I'm only using his super bowl season but you used him as an example of a guy who didn't make others better.(Favre)
That isn't what I said.
What I said was that when the talent around him was removed and the offense fell out of sync, his production fell, and so did his numbers.
BIG difference.
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I'm not trying to compare DA to those players (you did that)
No, PIT did.
I'm not comparing Anderson to those QB's. I'm comparing his situation to theirs.
Again: BIG difference.
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What I am asking is since you seem to be one defending the guy, Is it possible that the players around him are playing bad because he is bad.
Absolutely.
In fact, I can give you multiple examples where I've stated that Anderson shares the blame here. I believe I've even used one of my favorite colloquialism's when I said that Anderson "carries his own cross" in all of this.
I know not everyone reads every post on this board. Therefore, I can't expect everyone to know every word that I type, hehehe. As a result, I can't expect you to know that I've stated I don't absolve Anderson of his share of the blame, but rather I'm spreading the blame around.
Again, again, BIG difference.
Look man, despite saying repeatedly that I'm not firmly in Anderson's corner, I can't call for ditching the guy when I know the entire offense has been jacked up this year. When I see that the offense other than Anderson is on the same page, and that Anderson is the only problem, THAT'S when I'll call for Quinn, but not a moment before.
In case you're curious, that's why the organization hasn't pulled the trigger yet.
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I think it's a chicken or the egg kind of thing. Are the receivers playing bad Football because they have no confidence in the QB or is the QB struggling because of the WR.
GOOD! That's EXACTLY what everyone is trying to figure out right now, which is why Anderson isn't on the bench yet.
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I just don't think DA is the kind of player that can make others around him better.
Which is perfectly within your right, and I'm not here to tell you that you're wrong. The truth is I don't know myself. But what I DO know is that, as you put it, we can't yet determine if the chicken came first, or the egg
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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spectre, i don't understand how you and so many others on this board feel that DA is a finished product. sure he's had a few years in the league but with one full season starting, how is his book complete at the age of 25?
Read DA's scouting report from the 2005 draft when he came out. Then tell me exactly how much of it is different from what he is now. I read the one from ESPN insider when we first got the guy and he's the EXACT same player he was in college. Great arm, can make special throws, good leader, but horribly inconisistent, bad accuracy, poor pocket presence, bad decision making. That hasn't changed from college, it hasn't changed after what is now his 4th year in the league and if he hasn't changed now, how is he suddenly going to flip the switch on? Does he even have a switch to flip on?
DA is what DA is... it's not going to change. His age is no instant qualifier for significant improvement as he gets older. Some people just don't change. If you're not happy with what he is, why would you continue to hold on to hope that he'll change when he proves to you time and time again that he's the same guy you know you had all along?
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you're right, that's what made DA a 6th round pick. then again, scouting reports don't tell teh entire story right? they don't tell much of a story for how a player will play in the nfl. otherwise, why so many misses in the 1st round (qb around 50% hit rate) and so many gems in the later rounds or even undrafted (bulger, warner, brady, romo, hasselbeck, etc.). my point is DA is young and as a second day pick, a development qb. he has all the tools and he's developing into a decent qb. giving up on him in a year and a half could bite us in the rear.
at his age and experience, is it fair to expect veteran play? i don't think so. maybe after playing with edwards for a few years, you can expect him to play well even if edwards is off but at this moment? i don't think so.
finally, it's easy to take general statements from that the scouting report and say he hasn't changed but he did. his accuracy has improved, his pocket presence is pretty good, and his decision making is getting better (though it made his decision making a little slower at times). i don't need to see a significant jump at every game but if i can continue to see improvement, which he has shown, there is no reason to believe he won't continue to get better.
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people said he couldn't get more accurate in the offseason. yet he did. people said he stared down his receivers but he's improved on that this year. people said all last year that he couldn't dump off the ball, yet he's doing it better this year.
In both the Baltimore and the Redskins game , he threw for 37.8% completions. He is currently, for the season completing 49.2% of his passes.
But you say he's "improved"? You better find something other than hot air to back up that assuption!
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=8627
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I'm going to go with Pit on this one as what games you are watching where Da has improved his accuracy, his completion percentage is downright dreadful even if you give him the drops.
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i'm not going to play number games with you pit. i don't know what camp you come from but whenever i use numbers to support my statements, people tell me stats are meaningless. then other times when i make statements, people use numbers to prove me wrong. how something can be both all-ending and meaningless is beyond me.
simple fact, da is at his best when he's targeting receivers 20 yards down the field. i don't think anyone here would dispute that. what he lacked last year was the ability to check down to backs and hit many 5-7 yarders (even though he and edwards had the 4 yard inside slant down last year). this year, he's been able to do both much better and, unfortunately, that's all he was allowed to do for the first three games since we didn't have another receiver to keep defenses honest.
you cite the baltimore game but i'd be willing to give almost any qb a wash if he lost the first three games. defenses knew what to do. key in on edwards, bump winslow, and the qb is screwed. put a man on steptoe and that's more than enough coverage. washington deserves no excuse. a lot of that was on DA and even i was ready for the quinn era to start. i certainly wouldn't argue if the coaching staff felt that was the right move. then again, like in my other post, i'd argue that the drops hurt. not from a stats perspective (adding another 7 completions off of drops wouldn't do much for him statistically) but if those passes were completed, who knows how it would've affected DA's rythmn. you can't expect any qb to come out and be hot. they need completions to get going and, like so many other games, DA didn't have much help.
all that said, with new light on how winslow is, i think winslow's presence threw off of offense because he demands his targets. 5 forced throws before his first catch. that's why i think this week is so important. if DA performs well, i can see that winslow is as much a part of the problem as anything else (shockey jr). i also think that's why winslow was suspended a game. if DA performs poorly again, put quinn in. if DA performs well, we see a common denominator. it would also make a world of different to have ryan tucker back.
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The thing is we have a 1st round QB sitting the bench. We can find out if switching that position would do any good. If I thought Paul Hubbard was a possible star I would be all for making the change at WR also. How are we to find out which one the problem is without trying something new.
Just trotting the same thing out week after week with the same result isn't really getting us anywhere.
Was the Giant Game because DA was great or because the WR was? I find it hard to believe that 1 screwed up WR can cause our offense to suck. I tend to lean more toward the guy who has the ball in his hand every play.
Edwards caught 4 passes and dropped 4 others. DA threw the ball 37 times. Even if BE was targeted 10 times there were still 27 other balls thrown and he completed 10 of them. Was it BE fault that he couldn't connect with his other receivers either. Is it BE's fault that he couldn't hit Lewis out of the backfield with a swing pass?
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i'm not going to play number games with you pit. i don't know what camp you come from but whenever i use numbers to support my statements, people tell me stats are meaningless. then other times when i make statements, people use numbers to prove me wrong. how something can be both all-ending and meaningless is beyond me.
When your eyes and the stats align themselves, stats only point out the obvious. Which in this case they do.
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all that said, with new light on how winslow is, i think winslow's presence threw off of offense because he demands his targets.
So you're saying it wasn't the QB's decision as to who he did or didn't throw to? That it's Winslows fault that DA made poor decisions in that regard? That our TE tells or influences what our QB does?
Doesen't that tell you anything?
Even in your defense of DA, you claim it's not him making the decisions and reads in regards to his targets?
If you're ANYWHERE CLOSE to accurate there, we have more problems at QB than even the most critical DA oponents could have imagined!
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Is it BE's fault that he couldn't hit Lewis out of the backfield with a swing pass?
Well according to what dong's eyes tell him, DA has improved his short passing game.
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God created chickens first..they were given the ability to lay eggs..which is where we stand now.. Bunch of eggs on everyone's faces  Now I'll take a shot at this.. I just don't think DA is the kind of player that can make others around him better.
I know ttimothygman made the remark..the fact that DA has a big arm and and can throw those deeper patterns and gets the ball out quickly plays into the strengths our wideouts have..that is stretching the field and YAC.. Edwards is a big play reciever who can go deep and supposedl;y go over the middle and hit those slant routes.. KW is a recieving TE, who also can go in those deeper routes and create mismatches.. So if DA IS ON..HE plays into their strengths plus all the the other recievers.. Last year however they continually bailed him out on some errant throws that were high/behind and low by making those hard catches.. He only makes them better if he can be on target . If he's off and they still make the catch, they may be leveled, or they're tackled without being able to gain more yardage. If these guys have to run shorter routes , they're ineffective because he is not accurate in the short passing game. So his effect on others is realitive or limited.
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i'm merely alluding to a similar situation with eli and shockey. eli was this average qb who didn't live up to his status and pedigree. remove shockey from the equation and he was considered a top 5 qb. we dont' know the extent of distraction in the huddle by two divas in edwards and winslow. i'm drawing from the fact that DA performed very well without winslow and it makes me wonder if there is a connection.
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Uh..they aren't getting paid to play and have a curve like that..c'on lets not even go that route.
Thats weak..you're giving Mr.Ed a excuse..saying well if DA isn't accurate he shouldn't be expected to catch good passes..U know how that sounds?
Yes I see how that sounds, but that's not what I said...
My point is that nobody is going to be perfect, receivers are going to drop some balls.. Moss drops some, Ward drops some, Steve Smith drops some, Gates drops some... I don't expect them to be perfect any more than I expect DA to be perfect.. BUT, if a QB throws 35 passes in a game and 25 of them are accurate and 2 of them are dropped... that is far different than if he throws 35 passes, 18 of them are accurate and 2 of them are dropped... See what I mean?
I'm not saying that because DA is inaccurate they are justified in dropping passes, I'm saying that they are going to drop passes once in a while but when the QB is inaccurate it makes a couple drops look worse...
yebat' Putin
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if he throws 35 passes - 10 go to BE and 6 are accurate and BE drops 3 of those accurate passes what does that mean?
U see I also know that any WR will drop a pass or two..but when that number starts to climb it's a lack of concentration and poor technique.
The scouting report nails it and he even blurted it out , though he prefaced it by adding he wasn't getting thrown to early.
Well guess what?
Sometimes a secondary will take U out of it for a while..but he always has to be ready to make a play..
I'm not nitpicking , I'm talking about a glaring defiency in Edwards.
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No doubt he drops way to many passes....
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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we dont' know the extent of distraction in the huddle by two divas in edwards and winslow. i'm drawing from the fact that DA performed very well without winslow and it makes me wonder if there is a connection.
If there is a "connection" that speaks VERY POORLY of your QB.
You see, the QB is supposed to be your field general and the leader of your offense. It is he who chooses his targets, not the WR or the TE.
That would mean DA has zero command of the huddle. That he permits certain players to dictate his actions.
That would mean, IMO, that he isn't NFL QB material at all. So I sure hope you're mistaken about that one.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I agree Pit....and don't think that happens.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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You're not obsolving DA completely but you're on the interstate and the roadsign to your right says "Not The Reason, 2 miles".
It's silly to even discuss DAs play because it has been so wretched it is obvious to people who take the time to post on a message board about football.
Are others playing incredibly poorly? Yes, #1 his top WR but that does not account for the multiple passes a game where he stares down a WR/TE for 3 seconds under no pressure then rockets the pass 5 yard over their head.
From now on I want people to say to themelves......
Would I bench "Player X" if I had a 1st Round Pick sitting on the bench who I have groomed for 18 months who was under consideration to be the Top Pick in the Draft?
Player X:
Braylon Edwards - Yes
Kellen Winslow - Yes
Derek Anderson - OF COURSE, HELLO!
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I'm not nitpicking , I'm talking about a glaring defiency in Edwards.
While I do think your point is well taken, it only muddies the water in regards to DA's crappy accuracy. BE has nothing to do with that aspect of his game.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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That would mean DA has zero command of the huddle. That he permits certain players to dictate his actions.
I posted after the Bungals game there were comments that players were talking too much in the huddle ..guys who wanted the ball....he wasn't taking control..
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if he throws 35 passes - 10 go to BE and 6 are accurate and BE drops 3 of those accurate passes what does that mean?
It means that BE needs to get his head out of his butt and catch the ball.. I've never said anything to the contrary... 
yebat' Putin
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we dont' know the extent of distraction in the huddle by two divas in edwards and winslow. i'm drawing from the fact that DA performed very well without winslow and it makes me wonder if there is a connection.
I don't know either, but I'mm willing to put at lest a little money down that there is... at least a little.
Everything's cool when things are going well- but hit a bump or two, and folks will revert back to their true selves. Get two of them doing it at once, and you can destroy gameday chemistry in a heartbeat. That said, I haven't heard much from or about 17's behavior behind the scenes, so it could be only 80 with the problem [shrugs]
This is all speculation, of course.... but it's no less valid than any other speculative post going on in this thread.
I'm dying to see how the team performs this Sunday v. Jax. Look- even if we all hit it 'lights out,' it's still not proof... but it could be a strong indicator.
General observation: despite the early-season injuries and individal performance lapses, this team hasn't looked (or more importantly) felt remotely like the Cinderella team of last year. I sispect that there's something more to this than just skill players being 'off their game.'
There are many layers to this onion... and as each gets peeled off, I'm worried that we're just gonna be left with teary eyes at the end of the eason- again.
Hope I'm wrong....
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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that might be true...yet no one said that about eli afterwards.
yes, the qb is the field general but the qb also knows he needs to keep his weapons happy.
and "my" qb? i guess that makes me a browns fan and you...just a browns board poster? i'll be happy to support "my" (aka "browns") qb. let's just see what happens this weekend. if DA plays poorly and quinn comes in, i guess all of a sudden it becomes "our" qb? and you're a browns fan again?
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definitely feel the same way. i'm with you on this one and am anxious for the sunday game.
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While I do think your point is well taken, it only muddies the water in regards to DA's crappy accuracy.
No it doesn't muddy the water because I can look at both players seperately.
If DA was accurate at least 70% of the time and BE was dropping those passes , then you look at him alone.
But I can look at DA and say for a fact he's not accurate and nowhere near it on a consistant basis.
I can also look at Edwards and say he doesn't have the best concentration and drops some catchable balls.
That takes NOTHING away from my assessment of DA..
You never saw where I said if BE caught those passes DA would have a higher completion %..truth is it would only go up a few points..we would get a few more first downs..
But he would be wild on all those other throws..
So it doesn't cloud my analysis on DA..
So here it is in a nut shell..for this team to be successful in the passing game going forward, whenever the change in QB's is made, BE and KW(his tenure here may be brief) will have to perform consistantly themselves.
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i'm merely alluding to a similar situation with eli and shockey. eli was this average qb who didn't live up to his status and pedigree. remove shockey from the equation and he was considered a top 5 qb. we dont' know the extent of distraction in the huddle by two divas in edwards and winslow. i'm drawing from the fact that DA performed very well without winslow and it makes me wonder if there is a connection.
The difference is Eli struggled from day 1 and Shockey was on the team.. didn't DA go to the pro-bowl last year with Winslow and Edwards being his two primary targets? Now all of the sudden this year they can't coexist? That doesn't make sense to me.
yebat' Putin
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my point is DA is young and as a second day pick, a development qb. he has all the tools and he's developing into a decent qb. giving up on him in a year and a half could bite us in the rear.
No offense, but do you see what you're doing here? You're taking his age and draft slot and saying because of that, he's going to get better from here. You're not looking at the player as a player, you're looking at him as an age and draft slot. He absolutely has all the tools, but what says he's going to polish the skills that make those tools useless? He hasn't so far. There are some late round, young picks that have tools but can't harness them in addition to those that blossom. I believe that DA is of the former.
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at his age and experience, is it fair to expect veteran play? i don't think so.
I do. He's 25 years old. This is now his 4th year in the pros. He's played in 27 games and has started 24 of them. Sounds like a veteran to me.
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maybe after playing with edwards for a few years, you can expect him to play well even if edwards is off but at this moment? i don't think so.
I do. Read the post I made before this. Last year, he had pretty much every single player on his offense playing extraordinarily well and he still only put up a 82.5 QB rating, which is below average. The good quarterbacks raise the play of those around them, they don't rely on outstanding play to perform at an average level.
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finally, it's easy to take general statements from that the scouting report and say he hasn't changed but he did. his accuracy has improved, his pocket presence is pretty good, and his decision making is getting better (though it made his decision making a little slower at times).
Did you watch the game on Sunday? His accuracy was horrendous, his pocket presence was poor and the only good thing about his decision making is that he's learned to check down... only he can't hit his check down receiver.
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i don't need to see a significant jump at every game but if i can continue to see improvement, which he has shown, there is no reason to believe he won't continue to get better.
From last year, his QB rating is down 20 points, his completion percentage is down 7%, his YPC is down 2 yards, his TD/INT ratio has dropped almost a whole TD and if stats don't do it for you, your eyes should tell the real story. He's been abysmal.
So I ask you... where exactly is this improvement?
We're... we're good?
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