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I have seen you before....I can understand if that's a tough go for ya. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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He played well enough, got the win..
But the disclaimer is he's still inaccurate and several plays show it..the other thing is he can throw some lasers, that few QB's can..
If you could get consistant play from him we wouldn't have 200 discussions about the same ole thing.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/27/08 10:03 AM.
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You are right AD...and that is why we haven't trashed him yet.
If he can ever gain consistency, it won't be consistently bad since he shows enough good to put it past the fluke stage.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
You have people in life who have plans, and no matter how badly those plans are going, they just keep..............
Then there are those willing to adjust there plans depending on varying conditions. I certainly hope the latter of the two is applicable here.
Pit, I haven't read the whole thread, but to be fair... there is a third type of "people"..
1. Those who will stick with a bad plan forever.
2. Those who will adjust the plan based on new circumstances.
and....
3. Those who overreact in a kneejerk fashion to every bump in the road and appear as they have no plan at all...
And yes, obviously #2 is the way most people would prefer to be.
yebat' Putin
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It should be obvious the Browns are trying to stick with DA for this season..they want to win enough games..and in the mix ,for DA TO PLAY WELL ENOUGH to allow Quinn to sit and learn one more year. People luv to say DA is Jeckle and Hyde..he reminds me of Hong Kong Phooey 
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Good performance? he had a good half and then went back to the old DA, in the 4th quarter they barely let him throw the ball.
Yes, good preformance. He had a couple of passes on free plays (the pick and 12 men) but everyone in the world knew there was a penalty for offsides.
On the drive after the fumble, he threw a screen to Lewis that was dropped, and a ball to heiden where Heiden thought he was interfered with. I don't think that constitutes "Bad DA".
What I find so frustrating is how bad he does play for long stretches of time. The first two games most on here didn't blame him, at least not until after the Ravens and Cincy games.
He was awful the second half of the ravens game, and about three quarters of the Cincy game.
After a great outting against New York, he was awful for most of the Washington game. I can handle average to good, but not terrible to good.
I understood why he started the New York game, but was ticked about him staying in after the first half of Washington. The Browns are going to give him every chance to succeed or fail, so I have resigned by self to that fact. I think everyone else should as well. The reason is because it isn't worth the damage you do to your living rooms when he keeps coming out play after play.
#gmstrong
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I think he played pretty well yesterday. He came out pretty accurate and as we saw, BE and his targets resonded because of that. Once again we've seen that when a QB comes out strong, it resinates with his targets. There is a direct corilation. I agree with Toad, that once we got the lead, we got more conservative. That is more the playcalling on a given situation than some "mistrust" of DA IMO I have no problem giving DA credit where credit is due. And he played well enough to win. Gave up no int's, and was fairly asccurate overall. Which is what I've been expecting from him. I will have to see it on a consistant basis before I believe that is "the normal DA", If he can show consistancy in this manner, he will be fine. JMHO And my point is Toad, Nobody knows The Plan because it changes as circumstances dictate. Unless you get some weekly update on it. Because it changes upon what's going on and how we perform week to week. As some have elued to, nothing is set in stone. So to claim somebody "knows the plan" would be impossible unless they get secret midnight calls from Berea on a VERY regular basis. JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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i had said all week that i expected DA to show up with his 'A' game. many of us also suggested that the offense will be more cohesive because it was one loud-mouth less with winslow inactive for the game. sure enough, it happened. edwards knew he was the guy so he caught the balls he was supposed to, DA was playing loose because he didn't need to worry about getting certain players enough targets and as a result, he was playing his style of ball, making huge connections.the run blocking and pass blocking improved with heiden in. the offense as a whole was just better, allowing anderson to play his game. do i think it's a weakness that one loud-mouth can disrupt DA so much? yes but i also think that DA is in a terrible position and cannot be as assertive as other starting qb's because his job is always in question. i think we saw an example of DA being assertive and it completely backfiring last week with vickers. looked like a "don't tell me what to do, worry about your job" type of thing from vickers. with the team playing solid and minimal drops, DA got into a rythmn quickly and hit some great throws. the 4th and 1 throw to heiden was a bit of a floater but i don't think there was anyone around so he probably tried to play it safe. more importantly, he hasn't thrown an interception for a long time, i think since cinci. that's only one interception in the past 4 games and no interceptions against three arguably top-tier opponents. whether or not fans have an issue with his hot/cold play, i think we can definitely appreciate that an "interception machine" hasn't thrown many lately. i will also say that this is significant improvement that his "cold" play doesn't result in as many interceptions now as last year. haters will post his ranking and the stats but i think all of us can say the first 2/3 games were terrible. there are no excuses there but there are legitimate reasons for poor performance. the fact that he's still in, despite arguments that it's just because he performs well in practice, shows that the coaching staff believes the same thing. right now, he's making the staff look pretty smart. the issue for anderson now is how does he handle winslow. they need to sort that out asap because baltimore will be tough and it's very important. maybe we can suspend him again? 
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There are a ton of teams in the league that would love to have our "Plan B."
he will not be PLAN B much longer ... he will either play in the next 3 or 4 weeks or be our QB heading into next year ..... watch and see ...
I agree with U that DA should still be our starter .. FOR NOW ... I have not said much about DA's play other than sticking up for him the first month or so .. but i agree ... he should still be our starter for now ..
what i am getting sick of is the EXCUSE about the entire O being out of sink and that being the reason DA has played badly .. thats just a BS reason to cover up BAD PLAY BY DA ...
look ... make no mistake about it ..
BREY HAS STUNK .. he has been PUTRID ... he has been the worst player on our O .. well guess what .. THAT DON'T EXCUSE DA'S play ... sorry it just doesn't ...
and i can put all the pieces together about no practice time and cohesion ... I ran that out there the first 2 weeks of the season ... but at teh end of the day .. the conclusion to be drawn SO FAR is that ...
HE HAS BEEN A WELL BELOW AVERAGE QB over the course of the year ALL BASED SOLELY ON HIS PLAY ..
he has been WILDLY INCONSISTENT THIS YEAR ... and the GOOD IS WAY DOWN ...
I plan on adressing a few things next week after the half way point .. and DA is one of them .
I mean look what your doing and have said ..
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If you wish to blame being 3-4 on Anderson, that's your perogative. I tend to side with the organization on this one, which is to say Anderson had been one factor in an offensive equation that simply wasn't on the same page due to injuries which led to lack of cohesion. Since they started getting a little playing time together, we've gone 3-1, and Anderson has been improving. To that tune, his rating over that span is 85.77. Not bad.
Nevermind that our defense STILL stinks.
U use the most useless stat in football to show he has played decent football
over our 3 - 1 span ... good job .. you are still the MASTER OF SPIN ... and thats one of the problems I have with U (actually its the only one .. ) .. U just IGNORE so many things and post only things that make your arguement instead of giving the ENTIRE STORY ...
1. The guy who created the QB rating said it is USELESS ... he himself the creator said NOTHING USEFUL CAN REALLY BE GAINED FROM USING IT ... yet U and almost every one else trots it out on almost a weekly basis .. *LOL* ..
2. wonder if the Gnats game SKEWED THAT A WEE BIT ... *L* ..
its nice to boil things down to a nice little neet window to take a USELESS stat and make it look much better than it really is ..
In that 4 game span .. he played OK for 1/2 or 1/4 of the Cinci game .. and played GREAT against the Gnats .. he played as BAD against the Skins game as he did great against the Gnats (I guess he needed to get his cohesion back with KW for the Skins game so that is why he looked so bad again .. *L*) ... then he played OK yesterday ... he did nutting bad nor nuttin GREAT ... he made a few real nice throws ... WELL ISN'T HE SUPPOSE TO DO THAT?? ..
if u wanna hang your hat on one thing ... its 3 games without a pick ... now theres sumptin to actually say ... GREAT JOB YOUNG MAN ... and I mean that ..
but heres the part i REALLY LOVE about your post ... "the D STILL STINKS .. " ...
hmmm U use DA's 85 or 87 QB rating ( a stat even the creator says is useless .. *L*) to show us how DA is improving over a 4 game span .. while DISSIN on a D that has given up NO MORE that 17 points in any one of those games .. they have given up ... 10, 14, 14 and 17 IN THOSE 4 GAMES ... thats a grand total of 55 points ... that a WHOPPING 14 points a game (I rounded up to help your stance that they stink ... *L*) ... ya .. THEY'VE PLAYED HORRIBLE in that 4 game stand ... 
Now I don't believe the D has played even good in those 4 games .. but i will say POINTS ALLOWED is alot more relevant to us winning those 4 games than DA's QB rating is in showing us how he's improved because of cohesion .. *L* .. and to boot .. they've been CONSISTENT .. unlike DA's play in those 4 games ... *L* ..
and I believe the D has played pretty poorly in those 4 games ... and am amazed at the point totals .. if they don't start playing better .. those #'s will rise ..
but u know what .. the only game they've been responsible for giving up alot of points in is the Boys game .. they KILLED us ... did what they wanted and could have put up 50 ... the other two games .. a weather aided 10 spot to Pitt and 28 against the Rats of witch 14 should be hung squarely on DA ...
there not PLAYING GOOD by any stretch ... but there also NOT GIVING UP MANY POINTS ... and part of that over the past 3 games .. is that DA HAS NOT PUT THEM IN BAD SPOTS WITH HIS PICS ..
U see Toad .. that is how U present a FAIR PICTURE of whats happend .. intead of the one way skewed master of spin crud u throw up .. 
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I can't believe you and Toad are disagreeing about DA.  Toad was one of the first on here bashing DA. You, well you bash everyone but me...I don't think DA should have even come out of the lockeroom at halftime in the Washington game. I see what both of you are saying, and I probably agree with you more than Toad. However, I will stay out of it when the bombs start dropping. 
#gmstrong
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what i am getting sick of is the EXCUSE about the entire O being out of sink and that being the reason DA has played badly .. thats just a BS reason to cover up BAD PLAY BY DA ...
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and i can put all the pieces together about no practice time and cohesion ... I ran that out there the first 2 weeks of the season ... but at teh end of the day ..
Considering I said the EXACT SAME THING, the only person you're arguing with is..........YOURSELF.
When the first few weeks were over, I said it was no longer a REASON, but an EXCUSE.
Feel free to go back and read posts........go ahead......I'll wait 
Done yet? Good! Let's move on....
Quote:
1. The guy who created the QB rating said it is USELESS ... he himself the creator said NOTHING USEFUL CAN REALLY BE GAINED FROM USING IT ... yet U and almost every one else trots it out on almost a weekly basis .. *LOL* ..
It's useless if a QB can scramble, as the equation doesn't take that into account. Other than that, then maybe you can 'splain why it's so important to the people in the league? I guess they are just spinnin' it too
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2. wonder if the Gnats game SKEWED THAT A WEE BIT ... *L* ..
Yah....you're right......we should just throw that game out. Afterall, it wasn't REALLY Anderson who was playing, right? *L*
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if u wanna hang your hat on one thing ... its 3 games without a pick ... now theres sumptin to actually say ... GREAT JOB YOUNG MAN ... and I mean that ..
Which I did, if not here, in the other thread (you know, the "only" other thread where people can't help but talk about Anderson  ) where I said he should get credit for not turning the ball over. Though I ALSO said he fumbles too much, which is still a concern.
But since I didn't say it HERE that means I didn't say it at ALL, right?
You're barkin' up the wrong tree man.
We all know you don't like stats. I do. They paint an accurate picture of how Anderson is improving. You aren't required to like it (which I know you don't) but your smarts will require you to accept it
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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but your smarts will require you to accept it
Smarts??? You are talking about Diam.
#gmstrong
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"wow eo, so classy. take the weakest part of my post and just disregard the rest."
I see, so a classy post to you is one that is written by you for the poster... otay 
"leadership is putting people on the same page and keeping things ORGANIZED. no one but yourself can lift your own game."
Well evidently you just don't know the game of football...nice words. But if you don't think that an NFL QB can or cannot bring out the best or worst in his fellow players then what can I say. Ignorance is bliss???
"i'm starting to see how so many people get agitated by your responses. i don't need this:
I'm sorry I lost the part of respect...btw what made that quote disrespectful...the use of the term Please? or just stating the OBVIOUS which you missed.
Look, if you can't post about football and have a thick enough skin on a controversial subject.
I'm not here for a popularity contest. I just want to talk PURE FOOTBALL...either you got it or you don't. I've talked to plenty of kids in the early 20's who have a grasp - age has nothing to do with it.
You were wrong...I pointed it out... Got NEWS FOR YOU....I don't think you were going to be Pleased regardless of my tone. Actually I'm one of the least insulting posters here in a heated debate. But my apologies for being so correct and accurate in my football and the detailed explanation of that reasoning dispells your opinion to such a level that it makes you inferior. So I am to blame that you don't have a CLUE? Yes, My apologies, I'm sorry you don't know what you're talking about.
But go look up a book and tell me again what leadership is all about...
Geesh - I'm tired of holding posters hands. Grow a SET!
One thing is nice to see. At least you recognized that you had a WEAK part in your post. And the rest was probably just as weak but I chose to not embarrass you TOTALLY just partially. 
You guys make this to easy...now that I made another friend, Have a Nice Day. The only posters that get agitated are the ones who get tooled. What a coincidence 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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*edit* you know eo, i had this long reply but realized it was more about you than it was about DA. let's just keep it simple. you're human, you can be wrong. i'm human, i can be wrong. just because we disagree does not mean either of us is wrong by default, even though your arrogance would lead you to believe that whoever is disagreeing with you is "obviously" wrong. further, if you can't see how the quote i originally quoted or really all of your last reply makes you sound like an a-hole, i doubt anyone on a message board can convince you. if you have anything to say to that, do it in the PM so we can spare these guys. we disagree on what a qb should and should not do. it's each player's responsibility to bring their game. simple as that. otherwise, qb's should be getting a bonus for when wr's get certain number of tds or when the line allows certain numbers of sacks and don't worry, you didn't agitate me. people are jerks, i know that 
Last edited by dong; 10/28/08 01:14 PM.
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NRTU...
DA hasnt thrown a pick in 3 games...He has thrown 105 straight passes without being intercepted. Thats higher than most QBs in the league. Thats higher than some QBs get in their career.
This is something to not take lightly. Does he still miss throws and some opportunities? yes...very much so. But he is a young, improving QB still, and should be treated as such.
We could have Joe Flacco starting.
We could have JaMarcus Russel starting.
We could have Shaun Hill/JT O'Turnover starting.
We could have Dan Orlovsky starting.
We could have Ryan Fitzpatrick starting.
We could have Gus Frerotte starting.
Derek isnt complete yet. but we owe it to let him be seen through. He isnt complete. Eli Manning is the perfect example. Derek has earned respite. we should give him some.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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+1
another note, this is all after that bye week. credit goes to the offense and rac for pulling things together and getting on the same page.
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The first two games most on here didn't blame him, at least not until after the Ravens and Cincy games.
The Dallas game made our whole team look out classed. Our O-Line got crushed. He got a pass for that game. Pitt, there was terrible weather. Roethlisberger threw better in the rain than DA did, but DA got a pass because of high winds which lead to terrible passing. That's how it went down in my book. After that, I've gone nuts about the guy.
May be Quinn just doesn't look that good, because I'm afraid DA might play us out of playoff contention and Quinn who might have been able to, won't get the chance. In a way I hope that Quinn looks better but hte team is waiting for DA to get a complete chance, because of DA looks better, our QB situation looks bad
But, I'm alright as long as we win. DA better put up a solid performance against the Ravens, we really need this game. I just want whoever is best for the team to play right now.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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NRTU just throwing this out there: Quote:
PLAYER NOTES
--QB Derek Anderson hit some big plays and played a more confident game in the win over Jacksonville. Anderson threw for 246 yards and had two completions longer than 50 yards. It's almost starting to look as if the team's offensive failures were less Anderson's problems than those of his receivers.
http://cle.scout.com/2/805855.html
not saying it's the case but it could be a reason, not an excuse, for earlier struggles. don't know how DA'll do against the ravens but i'm sure he's going to be working hard to take down the team that 1) tried to move him to the practice squad and 2) embarrassed him earlier this year, almost costing him his starting job.
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It's almost starting to look as if the team's offensive failures were less Anderson's problems than those of his receivers.
I think this is a pretty big leap.. wasn't one of his 2 passes over 50 a fairly short throw and a long run? And wasn't the other one to Steptoe? Hasn't he been here all along?... From the Steptoe pass, he didn't complete another pass in 4 attempts.. he couldn't get it in the endzone and in the next drive he couldn't complete a pass to get us a first down...
I will hold the receivers accountable for their drops but the receivers are not the reason that on a bad day DA completes 48% of his passes and on a great day he completes 54%...
yebat' Putin
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If a receiver IS to blame, then we know who that is.
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my personal stance is just that not ALL of the struggles are solely on DA's shoulder. i do believe that a big part of it is still on DA but there are a lot of factors to whether or not DA can succeed and the dropped balls is just one of the factors. like i said though, this was only for earlier games and, with the receivers performing lately, doesn't seem to be an issue.
regarding the completion percentages, toad made some great posts saying that DA may never be a 60% passer because it's not his game and it's something that we will need to accept. that's something i agree with. 55% with no turnovers and more big plays than average is satisfactory to me. i view the big plays as sparks that can ignite the offense in any situation, so 5% more isn't that important to me.
i merely posted that segment because it's something that a minority of posters here mentioned and, while the article does not validate it, it's showing that there might be some merit (however slight) to that line of thinking.
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wasn't one of his 2 passes over 50 a fairly short throw and a long run?
Yes it was, and I coined the phrase of "White men can't run" during Heidens jog down the field 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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the issue for anderson now is how does he handle winslow. they need to sort that out asap because baltimore will be tough and it's very important. maybe we can suspend him again?
After reading your post, if there is ANY validity contained in it, why would they even play Winslow again?
If it's the "We're a perfect 2-0 without Winslow", and 'he's disrupting DA so much', why would they even play him anymore?
If it is that simple, wouldn't RAC be a moron for putting KW2 back in the line up to start with?
You guys crack me up.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Glad to see you took the high road and just insulted me with intelligence and a little side bar in calling me a jerk
Thats ok, I agree we all can be wrong...but the point was I wasn't wrong for the simple reason it was an opinion. I was laying out there what I, me, for whatever that is worth on the subject of Leadership from a QB on how to evaluate it and simplify it.
1. Make others better around you.
2. Run the 2 minute drill.
Its how I evaluate a QBs leadership skills as it relates to the field of play. If I'm the coach I got many more variables as I see the QB day to day. But as one distance away its a pretty good barometer.
Respect...I love when poster cry about my lack of respect for them. Usually that will only happy when they themselves disrespected me. In this case your use of the term "PLEASE" and basically I just responded in equal tone.
But the fact is you try to disprove that a QB is unable to make others around them better that its strictly and individual effort. This tells me you either NEVER played the game of football. Or it has been so far removed that you just don't remember.
Just like the importance of a good-great LT is a positive why? Cause it make the play of the QB BETTER. The importance of a Good-great QB is a positive why? Cause it makes the play of most of the skilled players better...of that matter worse.
There probably isn't one position on the Football team that is more directly involved in making others better in their game physically and mentally than the QB. I mean fine, we can have a difference of opinion of that task and results from DA but you were not arguing that. You were actually arguing that the QB simply does not have that status of making those around him better/worse. And that my friend is SO FALSE. And you know it would be nice if once in a while a poster would just say...My Bad, I was wrong. Gosh knows I do it - more than anyone I've read here.
But no, if I am proving my point well....well then I'm condescending and mean
So look in the mirror...
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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King Steve...its funny cause 4 out of the 6 you mentioned are BACK-UP QBs. I think you got the correct subject base to compare DA in Good job.
As for Russell and Flacco.
One I wouldn't pounce on that Flacco bit cause he's catching up fast and is progressing more as a Rookie than DA has as a 3rd n 4th year player in the NFL.
You know...all that garbage of saying how basically DA was a "Rookie" last year Well Flacco is actually a Rookie.
Russell, Put him on this team, I wonder how well he would be progressing. He's with the absolutely most horrid franchise in the NFL.
So one is a rookie the other is his first full season as a QB (Sophmore year on a horrible team) and you know what makes you look so bad
DA QB rating (after his two best rated games out of 3) 67.1
Flacco: 70.5 and that doesn't show his plays made by his legs.
Russell: 74.4
Ravens don't got much strength on O.
Raiders disorganized as they get.
Browns one of the most complete offenses around.
Who's career is more promising as an NFL QB? yeah right DA
But I do agree he's a Darn Good Back-Up QB perfect category for him
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044 |
hey, just some speculation from a fan on how the offense is playing better. it's either that or DA lifted his game. which one do YOU want to admit?
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044 |
eo, it looks like we just have different views. i don't think that a good-great LT "makes" the qb play better, it "allows" the qb to play better. i agree that a qb, without having to worry about his blind side, can use that extra brain to focus on other things, allowing for a higher likeliness of success. i don't think that good-great LT play "lifts" the qb's play by any means. it is with this view point that i don't expect a qb to "lift" the play of a wr. i don't expect any qb to take a steve sanders and make him look like a braylon edwards and that's what i took from your statement. if i misunderstood, then that may be my fault but till now, i'm still not sure if that's what you mean. if it is, i'll just agree to disagree because i don't think this is something you can prove anyways.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
it's either that or DA lifted his game. which one do YOU want to admit?
I'll chime it.. it has nothing to do with which one I WANT to admit, it is based solely on what I see.. the whole offense appears to be in a better place than it was a few games ago.. DA appears to have shaken off the first few games in which he was putrid.... Still doesn't change the fact that DA is too inconsistent for my liking.. and I think the bar has been lowered as to what constitutes a great game or even a decent game from him... From what I've seen this year his "great" games are merely considered decent or average by other top notch QBs.... I'm yet to see DA really elevate this team with his play... Yes, if he has great protection, no penalties and no drops he can look decent but sometimes, when he doesn't have that, he still has to make some plays and I'm not seeing it...
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177 |
DA is still a player with confidence issues...hes still inconsistent...he still cant read the field...and he still is probably the most innaccurate passer i've seen in awhile starting for an NFL team.
He has good talent around him...
Every week...literally some fans beleive hes finally "getting it"...and then he falls on his face...only to recover...and repeat.
What you see is what you get....DA is not an NFL starting claiber QB....hes a big armed QB with tremendous talent around him and a FO that will play him seemingly regardless.
I dont understand the 20 page threads every week about DA...he is what he is...been the same from the DA he stepped onto the field until now....right now hes the biggest issue with this team...several times hes severly held this team back...and cost it wins.
DA is a lame duck...he'll play some good football here and there until Quinn comes in..then its pine for DA...he had his chance...hes no good..."move on" time.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Derek Anderson.......Still on the
hot seat?
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